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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Back to Mono
From: Mike McKay
2. Re: Alice Stuart
From: Charles Ulrich
3. Charles Calello etc
From: Stuart Miller
4. Re: Back To Mono
From: Martin Jensen
5. Re: The Zonk
From: Phil X. Milstein
6. Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
From: Frank Jastfelder
7. Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
From: Jeffery Kennedy
8. Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
From: Dave Heasman
9. Dylan Sells Out Again?
From: S.J. Dibai
10. Re: The Jordan Brothers
From: S.J. Dibai
11. Richie Cordell R.I.P.
From: S.J. Dibai
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 09:34:21 EDT
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Back to Mono
Al Kooper wrote:
> As a student of recording techniques, i hate mono. Not much info for
> these thirsty ears here. I have learned important information from
> stereo versions of "I Only Have Eyes 4 U" by the Flamingos, "You Keep
> Me Hangin On" by The Supremes, etc.
The mono/stereo debate inflames great passions, and I've been an avid
participant for some time. I think your statement, Al, brings up an
important distinction that needs to be made.
I agree that if your goal is to closely examine a piece of recorded
music in order to learn how it "works" (i.e., how the individual layers
interact with one another to make up the whole), then a stereo recording
can be great. I've even heard people praise the God-awful split stereo
of The Beatles' first two albums -- the ones where ALL the vocals are
panned left and ALL the instruments panned right -- for this reason.
However, if your goal is simply *listening* to a record as a complete,
organic experience (as opposed to deconstructing it) -- and it seems
to me this *ought* to be your goal at some point! -- then it's a
different matter altogether. As so many have pointed out, stereo often
robs great songs of their massed power, rendering them wimpy or
disjointed.
This is particularly true of records produced before 1967 or so. There
are notable exceptions, but in the main I think rock 'n' roll producers
and engineers didn't bother getting a handle on stereo mixing before
this, simply because the market for stereo records (particularly rock
'n' roll ones) up till then was infinitesimally small.
It's been pointed out time and again how The Beatles themselves labored
over the mono mix of "Sgt. Pepper" for two weeks, and then tossed off
the stereo mix to an underling, who completed it in a day or so. Yet
guess which mix you can't buy today unless you resort to a bootleg?
My bottom line has always been this: I'm not anti-stereo...I'm anti-BAD
stereo, and there's quite a lot of that about. The example I've always
cited is the truly abominable stereo mixes of The Mamas and Papas' great
body of recorded work. In these mixes, the four voices are spread all
across the stereo spectrum. It sounds as if the four of them are
isolated in separate rooms, miles apart from one another.
Now what kind of sense does that make when the whole point of The Mamas
and Papas is those four voices blending together as one with those
wonderfully complex John Phillips-devised harmonies? When doo-wop
singers got together on the street corner to sing, did they stand as far
apart from one another as they possibly could? Of course not...they
bunched up so they could blend.
Again, the stereo mixes may be useful if you're trying to figure out who
sang what note, but not when you just want to listen. Regrettably, it
appears that the Mamas and Papas mono masters were destroyed many years
ago, so we have no chance now of ever getting a clean digital release of
these great songs **in the form in which we all first fell in love with
them.** And that's truly a shame.
Mike
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 07:59:04 -0700
From: Charles Ulrich
Subject: Re: Alice Stuart
Peter Lerner:
> Alice wrote, and recorded the original version, of "Full Time Woman",
> a good song also recorded well by Irma Thomas, and Jackie DeShannon.
I'd forgotten that. I know it from Grootna's version (sung by Anna
Rizzo).
Alice has a website (with audio samples) at: http://www.alicestuart.com/
--Charles
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 17:17:13 +0100 (BST)
From: Stuart Miller
Subject: Charles Calello etc
Al Kooper wrote:
> Calello and I did tons of work together starting in 1967 and
> finishing with Ray Charles 50th Anniversary on cable in 1991. I was
> music director and he conducted. We still email from time to time
Al, I believe Ray was an absolute nightmare to work with that time and
was actually reponsible for Charlie walking away from the business for
a while afterwards. Is that your recollection of the recording?
Stuart Miller
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 09:57:55 -0000
From: Martin Jensen
Subject: Re: Back To Mono
Al Kooper wrote:
> As a student of recording techniques, i hate mono. Not much info for
> these thirsty ears here. Many years ago, I found a Japanese import
> of a one disc Phil Spector collection IN STEREO!!!! It's one of my
> most prized posessions. "Be My Baby", "Walkin' In The Rain", "Do I
> Love You" etc. I just listened to it the other day - it's still
> amazing.
I'm with you on this one, Al. I recently came across the Marginal
Records bootleg collection of Ronettes stereo cuts, and it just blew
my mind! The way the strings all of a sudden come to the forefront
during the chorus of 'I Wonder' is just amazing! Those stereo mixes
really opens up ones eyes (and ears) for all sorts of great details
that get lost in the regular mono verions...
With regards
Martin, Denmark
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:44:47 +0000
From: Phil X. Milstein
Subject: Re: The Zonk
Pres wrote:
> Does anyone actually know how to do the Zonk? I know that the record
> was a no-charter but one never knows. I'm hoping that someone can help
> me out here or I'll have to make travel arrangements to the Congo,
> Kookomongo (hmmmmm...), the White House, and the Kremlin. I hate shots
> so I'd like to avoid this.
Pres, you are plumb outta luck -- doing The Zonk STARTS with getting
shots! But don't lose heart, as it's all uphill after that. It's easier
to do than The Ostrich, at any rate.
--Phil M.
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 11:41:02 +0200
From: Frank Jastfelder
Subject: Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
Jeffery Kennedy on Agnetha Faltskog's new CD:
> "When You Walk in the Room" has some nice Spectorish flourishes,
> and "Sealed With a Kiss" has an appropriately ominous arrangement. I
> think "The End of the World" is too jaunty considering the lyric, but
> I love the schlager approach to "Love Me With All of Your Heart" and
> the bossa-nova "Fly Me to the Moon."
Phil M:
> What meaneth this "schlager"? Warner Bros. used it for the title of
> one of their loss-leader compilations, but I've never grasped the
> reference.
Schlager is the German word for hit and it defines a musical genre in
Germany too. There´s no exact equivalent in the UK or States but I think
it would be best described as Adult Contemporary Music.
As fas as I remember the WB compilation "Schlagers" included more softer,
adult orientated artists then the other loss-leaders, hence the title.
Frank
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:38:53 -0000
From: Jeffery Kennedy
Subject: Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
> "Schlager" literally translates into "pop song."
Personally, I associate the term with the heavily melodic and
nostalgic pop music released in Germany in the '60s. Connie Francis,
for example, recorded a LOT of schlager, as did Peter Alexander. A
prime example of fairly contemporary schlager would be ABBA's "I Do,
I Do." Faltskog's "Love Me With All of Your Heart" has a big, old-
fashioned, midtempo arrangement with a slide guitar.
Maybe someone out there has a better definition? For me, schlager is
a kind of "I know it when I hear it" thing.
Jeffery
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:02:29 +0100
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: Agnetha Faltskog / Schlager
Phil X. Milstein:
> What meaneth this "schlager"? Warner Bros. used it for the title
> of one of their loss-leader compilations, but I've never grasped
> the reference.
"Schlager" is a German sentimental ballad. They give it everything.
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:50:56 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Dylan Sells Out Again?
Dear Spectropoppers,
First, the Victoria's Secret commercial, now this. I just heard that
Bob Dylan might show up on "American Idol" as a guest judge next
season. Oh, dear God. First off, "Idol" judge Simon Cowell has
recently made his distaste for Dylan quite public, so already it's a
stupid idea. And it IS a singing competition, after all. Can you
imagine Bob Dylan sitting there telling some hopeful, "You can't
sing"??? If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black!
Seems like Mr. Zimmerman is just doing anything that will make him a
few quick bucks these days. It's too bad that he doesn't have loads
of hit songs and million-selling records that he can make royalties
from. Oh, wait a minute.........
S.J. Dibai
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 16:55:22 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: The Jordan Brothers
Me:
> who ARE the Jordan Brothers?
Peter Lerner:
> Well, they had 3 45s out on the UK London label in 1959-61 with
> the HLW prefix indicating sourcing from Jamie/Guyden - they are:
> 8908 Never never / Please tell me now
> 9235 Things I didn't say / Polly plays her kettle drum
> 9308 No wings on my angel / Living for the day
> Wish I could tell you some more, but I don't recall ever hearing
> them.
That's okay! At least now I have some song titles and release info.
And they got released overseas? It would seem from your message that
UK London had a deal to release Jamie/Guyden material on the other
side of the pond--true? What was the time span of that arrangement?
Thanks,
S.J. Dibai
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 17:03:19 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Richie Cordell R.I.P.
Dear Spectropoppers,
I'm very sad to hear about Richie Cordell's passing. He wrote and/or
produced some of my favorite records by Tommy James & the
Shondells. "It's Only Love," "I Think We're Alone Now," "Get Out
Now," "Mony Mony," "Somebody Cares," and "She" are all classics. And
of course the timeless appeal of "I Think We're Alone Now" (a solo
writing credit) was proven when the cover by Tiffany topped the
charts 20 years after Tommy James' version came out. That is one of
those songs that someone could cover twenty years from NOW and it
would be a huge hit all over again. It's a teen pop masterpiece.
S.J. Dibai
-----------------------------------------------------------
New @ S'pop: The Daughters Of Eve, Nora Guthrie, Ron Dante,
Please Phil Spector, Girls Go Zonk!!, Priscilla Paris...
Available here: http://www.spectropop.com/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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