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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Alley & the Soul Sneekers "How Can You Leave
Her"
From: Mick Patrick
2. Re: Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
From: Bill Craig
3. Re: Remarkably short albums
From: Michael
4. Re: Lovers' Concerto
From: jerophonic
5. Re: Radio Radio
From: Stewart Mason
6. Jackie and Gayle
From: sd45john
7. Righteous Brothers sing Clout ?
From: Norman
8. Re: Four Tops and Spector
From: Bob Rashkow
9. Re: Alley & the Soul Sneekers / Carl Hall
From: Christian Gordon
10. Re: Lonnie Donegan
From: Richard Havers
11. Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
From: Lapka Larry
12. Orpheus Cover The Fab 4 (Rare Demo @ Musica)
From: Tom
13. Short albums
From: Steve Grant
14. Re: Robert Ward
From: TD
15. Re: Del (Dell) Vikings
From: Allan Rinde
16. Short albums
From: Mike
17. Phil Milstein's Monkees dream
From: Richard Williams
18. Phil Spector on the radio
From: John Fox
19. Tiny Tim
From: Phil Milstein
20. Bonner & Gordon & Nick DeCaro Fest
From: Bill Reed
21. Re: Lovers' Concerto
From: Dave
22. Re: Short albums
From: Dan Hughes
23. Re: Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
From: Art Longmire
24. Re: Phil Spector on the radio
From: Mikey
25. Re: Short albums
From: Richard Havers
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:53:05 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Re: Alley & the Soul Sneekers "How Can You Leave
Her"
That Alan Gordon on the "Alley & the Soul Sneekers" LP:
"How can you leave her behind" is one of the best things
on
the lp. It is my tribute to Phil Spector, a man who really
influenced me like so many of us. I hope somebody plays it
on musica.
Your wish, That Alan, is my command. The great track in
question
is now available for all to hear over at S'pop's listening
lounge:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/
Carl invited me to his apartment for dinner, an honor for
me.
He took me in his music room where he had on his wall
about 75
beautiful professional photos, all black artists except
one, a
picture of ME! I said, "Carl, tell me the truth, you just
put
that on the wall 'cause I was comin over". I'm sure it
came
right off when I left. I love Carl, and his wife Nettie.
Thanks a lot for the Carl Hall stories. I notice that
another of
the singers featured on the Alley & the Soul Sneekers LP was
(ex-Ikette) Vanetta Fields. By any chance, is this the
"Nettie" to
whom Carl's married? We seem to be agreed, he's one of the
best
vocalists there ever was. "The Dam Busted", anyone? Awesome
pipes!
Congrats on the new arrival.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:34:05 -0000
From: Bill Craig
Subject: Re: Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
JD Doyle:
...As for my collection, well I used to be a fanatical GG
collector
(as Mick Patrick, Martin Roberts and David Young will
attest) but the
last few years I've gone into more of my own area, and
fanatically
collect gay/lesbian recordings (by or about), and even
have a radio
show and site to do it, http://www.queermusicheritage.com
...
Naturally my additional motive is to spur some posts and
have folks
tell me of all the ones I've overlooked...:) Please,
Please do that..:)
Does Bob Dylan's version of the traditional "House Of The
Rising Sun"
count? "....and It's been the ruin of many a poor girl, and
God I know
I'm one."
Bill Craig
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:27:04 -0000
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Remarkably short albums
Billy G. Spradlin wrote:
The shortest '60s album I ever had was the Dave Clark
Five's "Greatest
Hits" on Epic. I copied the LP to cassette back in the
80's and
discovered both sides totalled at 19 minutes...
Wow, before I read your post I was going to nominate another
Dave Clark
Five album as the shortest album of all time...The entire
'Try Too Hard'
album is just twenty minutes in length, but it looks like
they've
beaten their own record! (I had previously noticed that Side
Two of
their 'Coast To Coast' album is less than ten minutes
total.)
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:13:47 -0000
From: jerophonic
Subject: Re: Lovers' Concerto
Phil Milstein:
...structurally, (the Toys' 'Lovers' Concerto') is quite
unique and
interesting. The first verse repeats twice, then nothing
else repeats
for the rest of the song. And, of course, it is all
verses, with nary
a bridge or refrain, not to mention singalongable hook.
Of course
none of this is meant as a criticism -- the record
undeniably WORKS,
and what more than that can one ask of a piece of music?
pb:
Two other fab tunes spring to my mind here - is this a
mini-genre?
One is "It's Only make Believe" by Conway Twitty, which is
all
crescendo and just repeats itself, no bridges, no refrain,
unless
you count the title line, which is just the last line of
the verse;
and similarly one of my favourites, "Opus 17 (Don't You
Worry 'Bout
Me)" by the 4 Seasons - again, no bridge or chorus...
The Drifters' "On Broadway" is another. With no bridge, no
chorus
and only two key changes, it's more understated than the
Toys, Four
Seasons or Twitty recordings. And it's got a Spector guitar
solo to
boot. A perfect record.
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:48:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Stewart Mason
Subject: Re: Radio Radio
Steve Harvey writes:
What bothers me is that young kids on college radio
playing "oldies"
All they seem to do is mimic what they heard the
commercial oldies
stations do. No concept of playing B-sides or album cuts.
The Doors
have been reduced to a four song act. Forget about ever
hearing Love
on the radio. The Beach Boys don't exist once they left
Capitol. Hell,
even "Breakaway" is non-existant.
Steve,
If I may refer you to the audio stream located at
http://www.wmbr.org
(WMBR in Cambridge MA) -- every weekday from noon to 2 p.m.
(EST), they
have a show called "Lost and Found" that is exactly the show
you're
looking for. Our own DJ Jimmy Bee was around for this
show's genesis,
and he can tell you that the overriding concept of the show
has been to
play all the songs commercial oldies stations miss. You
might be
surprised.
Stewart
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:02:10 -0000
From: sd45john
Subject: Jackie and Gayle
Does anyone know whatever became of the two 1960s girl
singers,
Jackie and Gayle? They appeared on some of the early
Shindig
TV shows and also in the teen movies, Wild On The Beach
(1965)
and Wild Wild Winter (1966). I love their song, 'Our Love's
Gonna Snowball' from the movie Wild Wild Winter. --SD45John
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:04:37 +1030
From: Norman
Subject: Righteous Brothers sing Clout ?
Hi Spectropoppers,
In 1978 South African group Clout (with a little help from
their friends
Circus) had a world-wide hit with "Substitute". Among the
many cover
versions at the time was one by Australian duo called
Peaches. Both
versions reached #1 in Adelaide. I have heard elsewhere that
the song
was originally recorded by the Righteous Brothers. Does
anyone have some
further info for me on the Righteous Brothers version.
Thanks in anticipation, Norman
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:15:05 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: Four Tops and Spector
If The Left Banke hadn't done it first, I could easily
imagine The Four
Tops' noble attempt at "Walk Away Renee" with the Spector
touch.....or
how about the B-side, "Your Love Is Wonderful".....or the
soulful,
super-bad "I Got A Feelin'", the B-side of
"Bernadette".....or, for
that matter, "Bernadette"! ! ! Interesting, how Spector was
one of
those who successfully bridged the gap between mere "pop"
and the
prevalent R&B styles in the early and mid-6Ts.
Bobster
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0500
From: Christian Gordon
Subject: Re: Alley & the Soul Sneekers / Carl Hall
Mick Patrick:
...For those who are unaware, the Alley & the Soul
Sneekers LP is a
source of ten songs written by That Alan Gordon, most of
them
featuring lead vocals by the one and only Carl Hall.
Without fail, listening to Carl Hall provides passage to
places very
few voices dare travel - or can. Many songs make this
apparent - but
maybe none more so than "Love Breakdown".
Best,
Christian
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:55:01 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: Lonnie Donegan
Paul Bryant wrote:
I was listening tonight to Lonnie Donegan, the Father of
Skiffle (that
brief British phenomenon). Now the first folk hit from the
Great 50s
Folk Revival in the US is supposed to be "Tom Dooley" by
the Kingston
Trio in 1958. They sing it very reverently, not to say
unctuously.
Lonnie covered the song and his version takes no
prisoners, rattling
along with drums, bass and electric guitar. So - er - what
makes "Tom
Dooley" by Lonnie Donegan not folk rock? (That would be 6
years
before the next bunch of contenders).
As with anything to do with firsts and genre labels the
whole thing is
fraught with subjectivity. The 'Folk Rock' debate is
probably even more
tricky than, what was the first rock and roll record! With
any such
discussion it usually hinges around what was the first
really big hit
record that has a 'different' and/or particular sound.
In Lonnie's case he would have claimed (and frequently did)
to have
been the father of just about every genre of music; from
folk rock to
white blues to beat to novelty records........and of course
skiffle. If
you extend the Lonnie argument still further are 'Stewball',
'Lost
John', 'Bring a Little Water Susie' (all from 1956) not folk
rock? But
then again they could be skiffle?
'Susie', and many other Lonnie songs, were originally
popularized by
Lead Belly, so there might be a good case for him being the
father of
folk rock. Then there are the Weavers or the Everly
Brothers. When 'Tom
Dooley' won the Grammy for best C&W record the Everly's
'All I Have To
Do Is Dream' was nominated in the same category.
As an interesting aside, in listening to Lonnie while
writing this
'Dead or Alive' popped up. Woody Guthrie's song has the line
"I don't
like your hard rock hotel"....the first use of the term?
Richard
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:19:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Lapka Larry
Subject: Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
Dear JD: How about this one? "This Door Swings Both Ways" by
Herman's
Hermits? I always thought that there was some bisexual
innuendo on that
one.
Larry Lapka
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:16:41 -0000
From: Tom
Subject: Orpheus Cover The Fab 4 (Rare Demo @ Musica)
Discovered this unreleased 1967 demo of Orpheus rehearsing
the
Lennon/McCartney classic, "Good Day Sunshine". Hear it at
Musica.
This was apparently a highlight of the the band's early live
concerts
and was referenced in a New York Times review of their
performance at
MOMA. It never appeared on any album or single, however the
existence
of this demo leads me to believe that Orpheus probably
recorded a
studio version, most likely produced by Alan Lorber.
What y'all think?
Tom
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:25:53 -0500
From: Steve Grant
Subject: Short albums
Billy G. Spradlin:
Most Pop/R&B/Country songs (besides Dylan) at the time ran
under 3
minutes, so you'd wind up with a 25-35 minute LP when you
stick 12-14
on a platter. The shortest '60s album I ever had was the
Dave Clark
Five's "Greatest Hits" on Epic. I copied the LP to
cassette back in
the 80's and discovered both sides totalled at 19 minutes.
I have
never understood why USA record companies had to chop up
British
Invasions albums, besides not having hit singles on UK
albums and
songwriting royalties.
It had to do with different royalties systems in the two
countries.
IIRC, in the '60s US royalties were $.02 per *song*; they
were $.22 per
*album* in the UK. A UK album with, say, 14 songs that had
originally
borne a royalty expense of 22 cents would cost six cents
more to license
in the US -- unless, of course, it was cut. Can any list
members confirm
or refute my hunch that this discrepancy has since been
eliminated?
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:29:13 -0500
From: TD
Subject: Re: Robert Ward
John Berg:
I was involved in the "rediscovery" of blues/R&B
singer-guitarist
Robert Ward in 1989. He soon signed with Black Top
Records and
traveled down to their base in New Orleans to cut his
first album
(having recorded many 45s in the '60s with his band The
Ohio
Untouchables, later compiled on CD by Relic Records)....
Robert Ward was the fabulous guitar player backing the The
Falcons on
"I Found a Love"... I think he's backing Hank Ballard on
"He Came
Along"... Ward and Hank Ballard represent two reassons why
Martin
Scorsese should have dumped the Marshall Chess "Godfathers
and Sons"
segment of his PBS series and gone to King Studios in
Cincinnati...
--TD
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:00:45 -0000
From: Allan Rinde
Subject: Re: Del (Dell) Vikings
Country Paul wrote:
"Whispering Bells" was the Dot Records follow-up to "Come
Go With Me."
The Del Vikings had cleaved in twain; another group, with
two L's in
"Dell," did a track called "Cool Shake" on Mercury, which
was very
different, and swung like crazy.
Actually, "Whispering Bells" was not the follow-up to "Come
Go With
Me." In between came "Little Billy Boy" b/w "What Made
Maggie Run,"
which did not meet with great success. Also, as far as I
remember, the
group didn't split until after "Whispering Bells," although
I think
Gus Backus, one of the original members, decided to stay in
Germany
after his discharge, or at least pursue a career there. He
had a hit
there with his own cover of Elvis's "Wooden Heart, (released
in the
U.S. by Carlton), which was eclipsed Stateside by Joe
Dowell's.
When the group did cleave (because most of the members were
underage
at the time of their original contract, but Kripps Johnson
was not and
couldn't leave) you had the unusual situation of two
different
recordings, on two different labels, of the same songs,
ostensibly by
the same group - "I'm Spinning" b/w "When I Come Home."
This, I believe,
was the first Mercury single, quickly followed (as the
inevitable
lawsuit was settled), by "Cool Shake."
What made the Del Vikings even more special to me was their
first
Mercury album, which was unusual in that it didn't include
the early
Mercury singles, but focused on their doo-wop
interpretations of
standards, including a second version (if you count the
overdubed demo
released by Luniverse) of "Over The Rainbow." I can never
get enough
Del/Dell Vikings.
With consolidation, just about all their post-"Come Go With
Me" stuff
is owned by Universal, which put out a couple of good Hits
packages,
but their complete Mercury output is (or was) available on 2
CD's from
Repetoire. Also of note is the "For Collectors Only" set
from
Collectibles which includes the original, undubbed demos and
various
alternate takes.
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:59 -0000
From: Mike
Subject: Short albums
Hi, Paul Bryant asks about short albums. Until about the mid
'60s
albums were generally a collection of recent 45s A and B
sides and
possible future A and Bs. About the time of Sergeant Pepper
the
concept album started and rapidly became the norm. People
didn't buy
that many albums uptil then. Some of you will argue about th
e
crucial album that changed things but it was about then. The
pop
charts were everything and I doubt if there were charts for
albums.
Mike from Liverpool
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:49:06 +0000
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Phil Milstein's Monkees dream
Phil -- If you have any more dreams like that, could you
play them to
musica, please?
Richard Williams
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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:56:51 EST
From: John Fox
Subject: Phil Spector on the radio
Previously;
I have a tape of Phil S. on a radio show commenting on
"Reach Out"
(not "Bernadette") being "Four Tops doing Dylan," and he
sings along
for a bit with the lead vocal to demonstrate his premise.
Phil M:
What kind of show was he on? How long (approx.) was his
appearance?
Was it in-studio, or via phone?
This was a very small part of the KHJ Los Angeles "History
of Rock and
Roll", a 48-hour radio documentary produced in the early
1970s. In
this section, Phil did a "blindfold" test (the old Downbeat
Magazine
routine), where they played him s few songs to comment on.
I do
remember that two others besides "Reach Out" were "Since I
Don't Have
You" (where he marveled at the soprano voice at the end) and
Phil's own
"Zip-a-dee-do-dah" (whose castenets he said were influenced
by the
Harlem Globetrotters "Sweet Georgia Brown" theme).
John Fox
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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:08:54 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Tiny Tim
One needn't be a Tiny Tim fan to enjoy Ernie Clark's 1993
interview with
him, the most comprehensive I've ever seen or heard,
covering many
phases of the great singer/historian's long career. The
centerpiece is a
discussion of the origin of each song on his debut LP, "God
Bless Tiny
Tim" (one of which, "Daddy, Daddy, What Is Heaven Like?,"
was by our own
Artie Wayne).
In typical fashion, though, Tiny used that basis as an
opportunity to
roam far and wide over the musical horizon, touching on,
besides his
beloved early 20th century American songs and singing stars:
Richard
Perry; Nico; George Harrison; Peter Yarrow; The Band; Bob
Dylan; Lenny
Bruce; Wavy Gravy; Linda Eastman/McCartney; his triumphant
1970
appearance at the Isle of Wight; Bing Crosby; and the
vagaries of
success in the music industry.
The interview is at http://www.tinytim.org/interview.html. I
highly
recommend it to anyone even mildly curious about any of the
aforementioned topics or, especially, Tiny Tim.
--Phil Milstein
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:22:17 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Bonner & Gordon & Nick DeCaro Fest
Musica is a Bonner and Gordon fest at the present moment,
what with
Don't Give Up and multiple versions of Whatever Happened to
Happy?
Inasmuch as three of the four were ALL arranged by the same
individual, it also amounts to a veritible Nick DeCaro
festival. Is
this some sort of Guinness (um, so to speak) "record"? A
trio of
different interpretations of one song all arranged by the
same
person? (Don't Give Up is also arr. by Nick.)
In addition to the versions of Hpn2Hpy? by the Mojo Men,
Righteous
Brothers and Jackie DeShannon---arranged by DeCaro---there
is also
Bobby Darin's take being played on Musica. So that makes
four shots
at what I assume was an attempt to get a hit record out of
this
terrific, offbeat piece of material. I am assuming that
someone else
besides ND arranged the Darin.
A short while back, the song's co-writer, who hangs out in
these
environs, gave us the backstory on his Melancholy Music Man
(also
arranged by DeCaro!). Maybe he could fill us in on the
subtleties of
Hpn2Hpy? as well.
Bill Reed
http://www.cllrdr.com
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:42:29 -0000
From: Dave
Subject: Re: Lovers' Concerto
I imagine this is common knowledge, but "A Lover's Concerto"
is based
on J.S. Bach's "Minuet In G" from the Anna Magdelena
Notebook. (I
have a version of this on one of Walter Carlos' Switched On
Bach
LP's.) Nice tune, pleasant arrangement, lovely vocals and
evocative
lyrics, I have to imagine old Johann would get a kick out of
it.
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:15:00 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: Short albums
The Dave Clark 5 was on Epic in the US, and Epic limited
themselves to ten songs per album on their British reissues.
So the DC5 and Donovan albums were always short. (Who else
was on Epic?)
I always thought that strange, because Columbia - which
owned
Epic - had no such limitation.
Anyone know more?
---Dan
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:35:28 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Gay, Lesbian, Cross-Gender GG songs
Larry Lapka wrote:
Dear JD: How about this one? "This Door Swings Both Ways"
by
Herman's Hermits? I always thought that there was some
bisexual
innuendo on that one.
And another one along those lines is "You Better Sit Down
Kids"
as sung by Cher, featuring lines like:
"Your mother and I, kids,
Don't see eye to eye."
I guess it's a 1966 version of "Heather has two mommies."
Art
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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:38:50 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Phil Spector on the radio
Phil M asked about a Phil Spector radio appearance:
What kind of show was he on? How long (approx.) was his
appearance?
Was it in-studio, or via phone?
John Fox replied:
This was a very small part of the KHJ Los Angeles "History
of Rock and
Roll", a 48-hour radio documentary produced in the early
1970s. In
this section, Phil did a "blindfold" test (the old
Downbeat Magazine
routine), where they played him s few songs to comment on.
I do
remember that two others besides "Reach Out" were "Since I
Don't Have
You" (where he marveled at the soprano voice at the end)
and Phil's own
"Zip-a-dee-do-dah" (whose castanets he said were
influenced by the
Harlem Globetrotters "Sweet Georgia Brown" theme)
I have the same tape in my archives. Phil was asked to
listen, and to
comment on the following records:
"To Know Him Is To Love Him" (Phil says "Now this is a funny
record.")
"Since I Don't Have You" (calls this record a "contribution"
to Rock and
Roll.)
I'd like to dig this tape out sometime and play it. It's
very funny, I
remember taping this on my SONY mono reel to reel in the mid
70s when
it was first aired on WCBS FM here in New York.
Mikey
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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:40:21 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: Short albums
Mike from Liverpool:
Until about the mid '60s, albums were generally a
collection
of recent 45s A and B sides and possible future A and Bs.
About the time of Sergeant Pepper the concept album
started
and rapidly became the norm.
Mike,
I think it's generally accepted that Frank Sinatra recorded
the
first concept albums (putting head above parapet and
awaiting the
first shot). 'In the Wee Small Hours of The Morning',
'Songs For
Swinging Lovers' and 'Come Fly With Me', from the fifties,
were all conceptually based. Interestingly, Sinatra's early
'78 rpm albums'
were often entirely made up of songs that were not released
as
'singles'.
Richard
End
