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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Orpheus live from Greenwich Village VHS
From: Paul Richards
2. Re: Jackie and Gayle
From: Clark Besch
3. The Metropolitan Soul Show on Soul 24-7.com
From: Simon White
4. Re: Righteous Brothers sing Clout ?
From: Glenn
5. Re: Short albums
From: Steve Harvey
6. Re: royalties / failed concept albums
From: Phil Milstein
7. Re: Phil's Spectre: A Wall Of Soundalikes CD
From: Billy G. Spradlin
8. Re: Frank Sinatra's "Watertown"
From: A. Zweig
9. (The House Of) The Four Minute Single
From: Michael
10. Re: The Four Minute Single
From: Dan Hughes
11. The majesty of Simon and Garfunkel
From: Kurt
12. Re: Needles And Pins
From: Glenn
13. Re: Royalties
From: Rex Strother
14. Re: Gay, Lesbian & Cross Gender GG songs
From: Dave Marshall
15. To That Alan Gordon
From: Glenn
16. Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
From: Richard Havers
17. Re: Gary Usher and Dick Campbell
From: Gary
18. Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
From: Mike Rashkow
19. Let It Be...Naked
From: David Coyle
20. Re: Jackie and Gayle
From: Tony Leong
21. Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
From: Richard Havers
22. Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
From: Paul Bryant
23. Estelle and Nedra Christmas songs
From: Sean
24. Re: (The House Of) The Four Minute Single
From: Paul Bryant
25. Re: Jackie and Gayle
From: Mark
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:14:14 EST
From: Paul Richards
Subject: Orpheus live from Greenwich Village VHS
Thanks Tom, I love the track especially the nice melodic harmonies at
the end. Orpheus were such a fantastic group. I recently picked up a
VHS tape called 'Live from Greenwich Village, New York' which has two
great clips of the guys lipsynching to 'I've Never Seen Love Like This'
& 'Can't Find the Time'. Great to see them in action. Also on the 2
volumes are The Happenings, Serendipity Singers, Mitch Ryder & Chuck
Jackson among others.
Paul R
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:58:52 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Jackie and Gayle
Mikey wrote:
> Ok, If Clark will play the Jackie and Gayle song to Musica, I'll
> make some other tracks available for Spectropop members to hear.
> I've got everything else, I believe.
Mikey, I'll start my search for it and put it on soon.
Clark
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:17:43 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: The Metropolitan Soul Show on Soul 24-7.com
This Sunday, 23rd November 2003 on Soul 24-7.com at 2pm-4pm GMT
The METROPOLITAN SOUL SHOW
2 solid hours of '60s, '70s but mainly Northern, Soul
This week - - - - The Utterly Marvellous Simon White
http://www.soul24-7.com/index.htm
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:39:52 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Righteous Brothers sing Clout ?
Peter Richmond wrote:
> The Righteous Brothers recorded "Substitute" in 1975 while with Haven
> Records, it was released as a single on Haven 7014 and also included
> on the album "The Sons Of Mrs Righteous" on Haven 9203. It was written
> by Willie Harry Wilson who also wrote another Righteous Brothers Haven
> track, "High Blood Pressure".
While I'd hate to disagree with an obvious Righteous Brothers expert, I
myself am somewhat of an expert on Haven Records and their owners,
songwriters/producers Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter. And I may not even
be technically "disagreeing", depending on terminology.
But when I read the phrase "released as a single", my assumption is that
you are referring to the A-side of the single. While the Righteous
Brothers' version of "Substitute" (which indeed was the original version
- Willie Harry Wilson was a staff writer and artist for Haven) was
released ON Haven 7014, it was NOT the A-side of the single. The A-side
was a cover of the Coasters' "Young Blood", which I actually heard played
for a couple of weeks on a radio station in D.C. So "Substitute" was the
flip side, which is not the same as being "released as a single".
BTW, maybe it's because I heard it first, I like the Righteous Brothers'
version of "Substitute" better, altho I liked Clout's quite a bit. The
Brothers' version had a more emphasized bass line and a syncopated
keyboard which acted to strengthen the chorus hook more, and their vocals
were much more passionate.
Glenn
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:06:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Short albums
Ralph McTell had a promo lp with Streets of London on it and nothing
else. An excuse to get people to note the song.
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:50:19 -0500
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: royalties / failed concept albums
Rex Strother wrote:
> For a very long time, this was $.02 per song, but it is now increased
> each year or two, and in 2004, the rate is $.085 per song per unit sold
> (or $.0165 per minute, for songs over 5 minutes in length). Of course,
> this royalty amount is then split between the publisher and the
> songwriter(s), usually 50/50. The owner of the copyright (whether the
> publisher or, if self-published, the songwriter) can actually accept any
> rate which they are willing to negotiate - and asking only 75% of
> statutory rate is common on re-releases, etc. Of course, negotiating
> your own rate can cause problems - as the Eagles discovered when they
> set their 1970s contract rate at $.02 per song, rather than choosing
> "the statutory rate" (which would have increased). In 2000, they were
> still getting $.02 per song, rather than the "new" rate of $.075. They
> took that to court.
However, I think it's important to note that this statutorily-mandated
rate only applies in cases where a different rate -- either higher or,
more commonly, lower -- has not been negotiated and agreed-upon by the
parties involved. And, as in all matters involving human relations, he
who has the upper hand gets to set the terms.
Paul Bryant wrote:
> So this sounds like the second concept album in one years to fail
> spectacularly in which Bob Gaudio had a major hand - the other was
> "Genuine Imitation Life gazette" by the 4 Seasons - this also divides
> fans.
And, speaking of hands, didn't Jake Holmes have one of his in that
project, as well?
--Phil M.
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:21:47 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: Phil's Spectre: A Wall Of Soundalikes CD
The S'pop Team wrote:
> New At S'pop Recommends: "Phil's Spectre" CD (Ace)
>
> . . . Clydie King's 'Missin' My Baby', Hale and the Hushabyes'
> 'Yes Sir, That's My Baby', Nino Tempo's 'Boys Town' and Carol
> Connors' 'My Baby Looks, But He Don't Touch'? All in pristine
> sound on one friendly-priced disc? Pinch me . . .(David A. Young)
>
> To read David's full review, visit the S'pop Recommends section:
> http://www.spectropop.com/recommends/index2003.htm#PhilsSpectre
The compilation is outstanding, my only gripe is the compilers should
have gone "back to mono" and used all mono versions instead of stereo.
While the Supremes track sounds great (so clean!), the Alder Ray and
the Tempo/Stevens track suffer in those super wide stereo mixes. The
Wall of Sound cut is great and the Gene Pitney track is another lost
gem.
The CD is a tad short, only 24 tracks, 64 minutes instead of the usual
26-30 songs I expect from Ace who usually max out thier comps. That's
plenty of room to add a couple other 2 1/2 minute gems like the
Girlfreinds' "My One and Only Jimmy Boy", but that's on other
compilations so I shouldnt complain.
Billy
http://listen.to/jangleradio
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:36:44 -0500
From: A. Zweig
Subject: Re: Frank Sinatra's "Watertown"
Richard Havers on Sinatra's "Watertown" LP:
> It is a brilliant, underrated album that bombed at the time and amongst
> serious Sinatraphiles it causes tempers to fray in heated debate as to
> its true merits.
Which just goes to show how silly it is to be a "serious Sinatraphile".
This record was my way in to Sinatra, having grown up as a serious
anti-Sinatraphile. That and the other scourge of Sinatrafiles, A Man
Alone. Just the fact that he heard the Four Seasons record and contacted
Bob Gaudio - which is the origin of the record as I understand it - was
very impressive to me. But I think it's just a great album and it's too
bad if loving Sinatra gets in the way of anyone appreciating it.
Kind of a stretch but it reminds me of this Anita Bryant record - The
World of Lonely People - which I just picked up as a joke and it turns
out to be a pretty good pop record.
So the guy I hated as a kid because he led the charge against rock n roll,
made some great records. And the woman I hated for other reasons made
one pretty good one.
AZ
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:51:03 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: (The House Of) The Four Minute Single
Paul Bryant says...
> The single which broke the four minute barrier was always, in my mind,
> The House of the Rising Sun. Until, that is, I recently for the first
> time heard Marty Robbins' great cowboy ballad El Paso, an American No
> 1 from 1959 - this clocks in at four and a half minutes. And since
> it's a ballad, it would seem unlikely that an edited version could
> have been issued (I could be wrong there). So why did the Animals get
> the prize for the first single to break the 4 minute barrier?
Well, in America it didn't. The American 45 of 'House Of The Rising Sun'
was a sloppily edited version that clocked in under three minutes. The
organ solo reduced to just a few bars, the track faded just after the
last lyric, and I think the third verse was removed. Based on some of
the edits, keeping the beat was not a high priority for the editors.
Even the first American Animals album used the short version. The first
American release of the full version was on the 1965 MGM various artists
compilation '(Mickie Most Presents) British Go Go.' (The cover boasts
about its inclusion of the long version). MGM's 1966 'Best Of The
Animals' also has the full version.
Also, a good number of young Americans probably first heard the long
studio version in the 1965 movie 'Go Go Mania (Pop Gear)'
I don't have a copy of the UK 45, but I guess that had the full version
because I've heard a tape of The Beatles being interviewed in 1964 (from
'Beatles Talk Downunder'), talking about that record and commenting on
its four minute duration.
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:00:04 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: The Four Minute Single
Steve Harvey writes:
> I have a promo of "Like A Rolling Stone", white label Bob disc. It
> fades out under three minutes. You have to flip it over where it
> fades in and ends on that side. Evidently the folks at CBS weren't
> sure 5 minutes of Bob was going to go over.
Steve, I am pretty sure (somebody have a copy to check?) that the stock
version of the Like a Rolling Stone single was also under three minutes,
with the rest of the song as the flip side. And most radio stations
aired just Part I.
---Dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Admin Note:
Don't all write at once - the B-side of Bob Dylan's "Like A Rolling
Stone", released on Columbia 43346 in mid-'65, was "Gates Of Eden".
We must forgive Dan his error.
Signed, smartypants S'pop moderator
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:12:55 -0000
From: Kurt
Subject: The majesty of Simon and Garfunkel
Well, it's been two days now and I'm still recovering from one of the best
concerts I've ever attended.
A bunch of friends and I went to Simon and Garfunkel's show at the Staples
Center in LA on Monday night and left dumbstruck AND awestruck.
First of all, for such a large venue the sound was superb. Both Paul and
Art were in fine form, though Art's voice was a slightly ragged at times.
The show lasted a solid two hours and we were treated to a tasteful setlist
of some of their most popular (and most obscure) songs.
Simon's acoustic guitar playing was quite inspired, and at times he looked
like a diminutive Bruce Springsteen as he commanded the stage. Their small
band was sharp as a tack, and included legend Jim Keltner on drums.
Concert highlights for me were:
- a short rendition of their first hit "Hey Schoolgirl" followed by guests
The Everly Brothers 4-song mini-set.
- a perfect rendition of "Leaves That Are Green" (which they hadn't played
since 1967)
- Art's angelic singing on "American Tune"
- funky, soulful versions of "Mrs Robinson" andf "Hazy Shade of Winter"
- "Homeward Bound" which included a theremin solo...don't think I've ever
heard a theremin at any show I've ever attended...!
The crowd was very respectful, and we noticed a high percentage of young
music fans in attendance (which was good to see)
That's my review. I'd love to hear other S and G concert reports from
Spectropoppers.
For me it was like seeing The Beatles...or the original Byrds or maybe
even Dylan and the Band (circa '66)
Kurt
Houseplant Picture Studio
http://www.houseplantpicturestudio.com
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:11:30 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Needles And Pins
Martin Roberts wrote:
> Talking of "Needles And Pins", anyone else heard the story (or have
> I made it up!) that really the record was written by Jack Nitzsche
> and Jackie DeShannon but the co-credit was given to Sonny Bono due
> to his lack of funds at the time?
No, Martin, you're not making it up. It's a true story. Sonny Bono
had nothing to do with the writing of "Needles and Pins", one of his
most oft-cited credits.
My source: The Encycopedia of Record Producers:
"[Jackie De Shannon] and Nitzsche... wrote many songs together,
including the hit single 'Needles and Pins', recorded by the
Searchers in 1964 and Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks in 1986. Although
co-writing credit is attributed to Sonny Bono, Nitzsche explains
that 'Sonny was having a rough time then. He was going through his
first divorce.'"
Another excellent version of "Needles and Pins", which received a
rave review in Billboard, was the one recorded by British group
Smokie in 1977. It did chart in the U.S., but was only a minor hit
here. However, it was a huge hit in the U.K. and throughout Europe.
Smokie's energetic and unique version, with "piercing" strident
electric rhythm guitars, their trademark high harmonies and the
growly lead vocals of Chris Norman ("Stumblin' In"), was produced by
Mike Chapman and Nicky Chinn, and is definitely worth checking out.
Glenn
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:41:24 -0700
From: Rex Strother
Subject: Re: Royalties
Mike Rashkow:
> I was definitely born too late--and with the wrong licensing society.
> And Rex, You an attorney???
Dear Rashkovsky:
Attorneys? WHERE? Aaaaaaaah! (making motions, as if to swat spiders off
his shirt)
No, I'm not an attorney - but I work at a law firm as a paralegal for
entertainment (mostly music) law. I also handle music publishing for my
aunt, Cynthia Strother, who wrote "Bermuda" back in 1951 as one of the
Bell Sisters.
I was just so excited to have something to "contribute" to the email
list, I had to ramble on! There are so many on the list who've been in
the business on all of it's sides (the creative AND the evil), they
probably know much more than I. But I love to help writers and
performers get their due; so if anyone has that kind of question - I'd
be glad to help or research. Contact me off list, of course.
Rex
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:27:28 -0000
From: Dave Marshall
Subject: Re: Gay, Lesbian & Cross Gender GG songs
How about Brian Wilson's version of I Sleep Alone which wasn't only
done as a studio demo, but performed live at least once.
dave marshall
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:58 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: To That Alan Gordon
Alan,
Like so many here, I am a huge fan of your work with Garry Bonner,
and have been for over 30 years. I consider you two one of the most
innovative songwriting teams ever, and the way you constantly
stretched the boundaries of the traditional pop-rock song with
ingenious experimentation, and still managed to have it all come out
commercially successful and melodic, is a mind-blowing achievement.
But moreover, I am absolutely thrilled to be able to say to you, in
this public forum, that your own song, "Maybe I'm Old Fashioned", as
recorded by Sha Na Na, is one of the greatest songs ever written by
anyone anywhere anytime! I was fortunate enough to hear it on the
radio back in the days when radio stations actually played songs
that weren't guaranteed or already-established hits, and it is one of
my favorite and most-treasured records of all time. Why it wasn't a
huge hit is totally beyond my comprehension. I so wish that it would
come out on CD.
Somehow you managed to capture the perfect "old fashioned" '50s
flavor but still keep it totally original and current-sounding for
the 70's. And as usual, you broke half the rules of ordinary song
structure but still produced an unforgettable, melodic masterpiece.
Great lyrics, too!
I was wondering if you specifically wrote this for Sha Na Na? Also,
what's your own evaluation of the song? Is it one of your own
favorites? Any special memories associated with it?
Anyway, thanks for this particular great song, among the many you've
written. Extragordonary indeed!
Glenn
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:59:10 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
Albabe Gordon recommended the book:
> What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
> Jim Dawson and Steve Propes
> ISBN: 0-571-12939-0 (paper)
Totally agree about the book. It's a great read, well researched and
makes an eloquent case for the fact that there is no one record that
started it all.
Richard
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:19:53 -0000
From: Gary
Subject: Re: Gary Usher and Dick Campbell
Patrick wrote:
> Hi Gary, I was wondering if you could help me find some sound file
> samples of either the Dick Campbell Blue Winds Only Know or Gary Usher
> Beyond The Shadow Of Doubt cds. Also, I'm having a hard time finding
> either of these two cds for sale anywhere. I love the Sagittarius The
> Blue Marble disc, and I was curious if these two albums are similar?
> Please let me know if you can help me - thank you!
The Blue Winds Only Know and the Beyond the shadow of doubt cd's can
both be found at http://www.amazon.com as well as many other places on
the web.
You can find the songs posted here and there from both cd's on different
websites. Here is a link to wfmu website playlist search. Put in Dick
Campbell for artist and it will bring up some of the shows that featured
both of these cd's. You can choose to listen to these shows from the
archive: http://www.wfmu.org/search.php
Also here is the official Dick Campbell web site which has a few songs
posted: http://webpages.charter.net/dickcampbell/
Here is the Dick Campbell Yahoo discussion group which has many songs
posted (Mostly unpublished). These songs are removed and replaced with
others from time to time: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dickcampbell/
Hope these are what you were looking for.
Gary
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:42:36 EST
From: Mike Rashkow
Subject: Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
About a year ago, this subject was beaten to death. That's not an
overstatement.
Everybody jumped in and everyone had an opinion. What astonished me
was the diversity of the opinions and the lack of ANY, I repeat ANY
meaningful agreement.
Since I threw the first rock in the water that time, I felt responsible
for counting the ripples. I did so and I saved it. Here for your
review and edification is the result:
There were 47 actual songs named by the various posters.
The song that received the most nods was:
Long Tall Sally with 3 votes.
There were 5 other songs that got 2 nominations, they were:
Blue Suede Shoes
Rebel Rouser
Rock Around The Clock
Ain't That A Shame
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
All the rest got 1 mention, here they are--artists included when I think
it helps:
An asterisk indicates that I swear to God someone made that suggestion.
That's Why (Jackie Wilson)
Rock A Billy (Guy Mitchell)
C'Mon A My House (Rosemary Clooney)*
Summer Place (Percy Faith)*
La Bamba
All Phillies Records before RDMH*
Donkey Serenade (Alan Jones) *
Moonlight Serenade (Glenn Miller)*
Hound Dog (Elvis) (No one mentioned Willa Mae Thornton)
High School Confidential (J.L. Lewis)
Lovesick Blues (Hank Williams)
Oh Boy (Buddy Holly)
Honeycomb (Jimmy Rodgers)
How High The Moon (Les Paul and Mary Ford)
Jezebel (Frankie Laine)
Rock Island Line (Lonnie Donegan)
Lawdy Miss Clawdy
Roll Over Beethoven
Cry (Johnny Ray)
Roll With Me Henry
I Wonder Why (Dion)
Mama He Treats Your Daughter Mean (Ruth Brown)
Touch The Hem (Sam Cooke)
What's I Say
Rumble
Without Love (Clyde McPhatter)
Heartbreak Hotel
Bo Diddley
Poison Ivy
Maybe (Chantels)
Oh Carol (Chuck Berry)
Boom Boom (J.L. Hooker)
Mess Around (Ray Charles)
Who Do You Love (Bo Diddley)
So what did I discover from this research---that most people are
imbeciles; and now Ladies and Gents, let the laughter begin. Percy
freaking Faith? Give me a personal break over here will 'ya.
Di da
Rashkovsky
PS Don't anyone dare send me a response, I'm into bluegrass and jazz
anyway.
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:13 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Let It Be...Naked
I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussion of
the newly released Beatles album "Let It Be...Naked."
Just got this CD and it's pretty much all I expected.
I do like the more stripped-down versions of songs
from the original 1970 album. Some differences are
more subtle than others. "Let It Be" and "The Long And
Winding Road," both alternate takes untouched by Phil
Spector in the first place, are stunning versions.
"Across The Universe" is incredible. It's the original
master take, which Spector not only overdubbed with
strings and chorus, but he slowed it down, giving the
finished product a slurred weary sound. The new
version is at the correct, natural speed, maintaining
all the nuances of the recording originally made by
John Lennon.
Overall, the sound is great. The bass is punchier, the
drums are crisper (no wonder...the bassist and drummer
are the only living members left...), and little bits
jump out at you where they were originally buried in
the mix, overdubs notwithstanding. The solo on "One
After 909" smokes more than ever.
One of Spector's 1970 touches that I never really
minded were the false starts and bits of studio
chatter that were used to tie the songs together, with
the attempt of making the album sound more live. Some
moments on the album, like the cold ending of "Get
Back" (presented in its original take form, minus the
adlib at the end), kind of dead end without those
ambient sounds.
The booklet is nice, the opening essay is pretty
informative, even if the liner notes depend too much
on the transcripts from the original book. The cover
is pretty awesome-looking. Overall, the packaging of
the CD ties in a lot with the idea of stripping down
the album to its bare-bones form. Just a basic double
CD with booklet in a slimline double jewel case.
Unadorned.
Most Beatles fanatics well-versed in bootlegs of the
"Let It Be" sessions will be familiar with most of the
material on the bonus "Fly On The Wall" disc. Still
there are some interesting moments, like the full-band
vocal version of "All Things Must Pass," Paul's one
minute piano composition, and a teasing burst of
clanging guitar and throbbing bass from an early take
of "Get Back." And of course, all that talking and
arguing and John Lennon's complaint about the group
"building another bloody castle around ourselves."
Could this be ushering in the near-future possibility
of seeing the "Let It Be" movie given full release,
preferably on DVD with outtakes and other goodies? Why
give us 20 minutes of audio and 20-some pages of
transcripts of events that mostly took place on sound
movie film, and keep the actual movie itself in the
can?
While we're at it, let's see them finally release that
"acoustic White Album" that was promised around the
time of the "Anthology" series? Keeping with the
"naked" theme, they could call it "The Beatles...
Stripped," and include all the so-called "Esher Demos"
and any first-take or studio/home demo versions they
can find. I think that would almost be more interesting
than what they've done with "Let It Be." It could also
(and more realistically) be a boxed set.
Then, revamp the "Live At The Hollywood Bowl" LP idea,
releasing a CD of a _complete_ Beatles concert from
the era, rather than a mixing of two shows from
different tours. Add on a few bonus live tracks,
including more Shea Stadium tracks (like the amazing
go at "I'm Down") and maybe something from Candlestick
Park (despite the sound quality). Release "The Beatles
At Shea Stadium" on DVD with bonus footage or
interviews.
Maybe the surviving Beatles should do what they can to
shut down the bootleggers before Yoko Ono and Michael
Jackson are the only ones left who have any control on
the Beatles empire.
David
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:53:48 -0000
From: Tony Leong
Subject: Re: Jackie and Gayle
sd45john wrote:
> Does anyone know whatever became of the two 1960s girl singers,
> Jackie and Gayle? They appeared on some of the early Shindig
> TV shows and also in the teen movies, Wild On The Beach (1965)
> and Wild Wild Winter (1966). I love their song, 'Our Love's
> Gonna Snowball' from the movie Wild Wild Winter. --SD45John
Hey Group: Jackie Miller (the blonde), and Gayle Caldwell (brunette)
I know mostly from their frequent Shindig appearances. The best one
they did (in my opinion) was "Let The Sunshine In" (not the 5th
Dimension song) where they sang with another unknown Linda Clark (on
the 8/4/65 episode). I can't seem to find any of their own material
on CD, but they had some interesting numbers I agree!!! And Linda
Clark was pretty good too, but NOBODY IN THE WORLD seems to know who
she is!!!!!!!
Whatever happened to Jackie and Gayle?? The latest that I read was
that Jackie was living in LA, but not singing. Gayle apparently
lives in Northern California and sings with a group that plays at
resorts etc. I found that out by clicking onto a New Christy
Minstrels site!!!!!
Tony Leong
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:37:48 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
Mike Rashkow on "What was the first rock and roll record?":
> So what did I discover from this research---that most people are
> imbeciles; and now Ladies and Gents, let the laughter begin. Percy
> freaking Faith? Give me a personal break over here will 'ya. Don't
> anyone dare send me a response, I'm into bluegrass and jazz anyway.
Mike, I dare!
It proves nothing, least of all that people are imbeciles! Why does
there have to be agreement anyway? It's a lot like genealogy, your
never quite sure if there are any illegitimate siblings.
Most of us, as George W. constantly reminds us, live in countries where
free speech is a right.....well most of the time anyway. The point that
Alan G was making is that there is a good book that discuses the many
contenders for the title. In actual fact the thread wasn't really about
what was the first record, it was more general and related to other
matters. It got somewhat confused with the changing of thread titles!
Anyway your list is clearly nonsense as it doesn't mention Wynonie
Harris, Louis Jordan.......and bizarrely Rocket 88 : )
Richard
p.s. if the Moody Blues are still searching for the lost chord then I'm
looking for the first R&R record.
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:59:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: What Was The First Rock and Roll Record?
Mike Rashkow ON "What was the first rock and roll record?":
> About a year ago, this subject was beaten to death. That's not an
> overstatement. Everybody jumped in and everyone had an opinion.
> What astonished me was the diversity of the opinions and the lack of
> ANY, I repeat ANY meaningful agreement. So what did I discover from
> this research---that most people are imbeciles; and now Ladies and
> Gents, let the laughter begin. Percy freaking Faith? Give me a
> personal break over here will 'ya. Don't anyone dare send me a
> response, I'm into bluegrass and jazz anyway.
Okay, okay, okay, but what was the LAST rock & roll record? Answer me
that.
pb
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:00:32 -0000
From: Sean
Subject: Estelle and Nedra Christmas songs
I know that Nedra and Estelle were only on "Be My Baby" and a few
others but were they on the Ronettes' Christmas songs? I have a
strong feeling they're on "Frosty" and "Sleigh Ride".
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:30:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: (The House Of) The Four Minute Single
Paul Bryant:
> The single which broke the four minute barrier was always, in my mind,
> The House of the Rising Sun. Until, that is, I recently for the first
> time heard Marty Robbins' great cowboy ballad El Paso, an American No
> 1 from 1959 - this clocks in at four and a half minutes. And since
> it's a ballad, it would seem unlikely that an edited version could
> have been issued (I could be wrong there). So why did the Animals get
> the prize for the first single to break the 4 minute barrier?
Michael:
> Well, in America it didn't. The American 45 of 'House Of The Rising
> Sun' was a sloppily edited version that clocked in under three minutes.
> The organ solo reduced to just a few bars, the track faded just after
> the last lyric, and I think the third verse was removed. Based on some
> of the edits, keeping the beat was not a high priority for the editors.
> Even the first American Animals album used the short version. I don't
> have a copy of the UK 45, but I guess that had the full version because
> I've heard a tape of The Beatles being interviewed in 1964 (from
> 'Beatles Talk Downunder'), talking about that record and commenting on
> its four minute duration.
Yeuchhh, I really didn't know that! So your so lovely American record
companies butchered singles as well as albums? Well, of course, the UK
hit single had the full majestic 4 and a half minute version - otherwise
it would not be (unjustly) famous for being the first four minute single.
But it would still be unjustly famous for being the first folk rock hit
song!
And on that subject, the chronology goes like this:
Dylan issues first album in 62, second and third in 63. No one has heard
of Dylan in the UK in 63 except some folkies and assorted hipsters -
like Eric Burdon and Alan Price. Likewise, no one has heard of the
Beatles in America in 1963. Meanwhile, Dylan is ready to move out of his
temporary home in folk music, but he doesn't know what direction to take.
Then in January 64 the Beatles take over America. In march 64 Dylan is
driving somewhere and listens to the top 40 show - the Beatles have the
first 5 places on the chart. This gets his attention (plus, he thinks
they're singing about dope - I get high! etc etc). Next month, April 64,
the Animals release Baby Let me Take you Home, a powerhouse treatment of
a song on Dylan's first album (although I doubt that their source was
Dylan, more like John Lee Hooker). Then, in June, shazam! House of the
Rising Sun - also a song from Dylan's first album - this time he was
definately their source. And this gets his attention too. But still it
takes Dylan another 6 months to strap on that Stratocaster and rewrite
Too Much Monkey Business.
pb
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:28 -0000
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Jackie and Gayle
I have (I think) all of Jackie and Gayle's records (except for the
Mr. Novak song). I believe there is 1 song on CD on a Japanese girl
sound bootleg. They had maybe 5 singles and a song or two on
soundtrack LPs. Apparently they did a lot more in TV appearances than
their recorded output indicates. Maybe some enterprising member here
can contact one of them and see if they have any unreleased tapes?
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