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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Disco & computers ?
From: Stewart Mason
2. Re: Beatles
From: Clark Besch
3. Re: Looking for Mob cd or songs for dad?
From: Clark Besch
4. Re: Shortest track of all time
From: Andres
5. Re: Shortest track of all time
From: Eddy
6. Re: Beatles - Born Too Late
From: Clark Besch
7. Re: the very last day
From: Clark Besch
8. Bee Gees & White Soul
From: James Botticelli
9. Re: Japanese Bubblegum CDs
From: Orion
10. Re: One hit wonders and bucking the trends.
From: Paul Bryant
11. Re: 4 Seasons' "Gazette"
From: Paul Bryant
12. Re: Shortest track of all time
From: Paul Bryant
13. The first Disco record
From: Justin McDevitt
14. Re: Shortest Track of all time/Short elpees
From: Steven Prazak
15. born too early
From: Alan Zweig
16. Re: Shortest track of all time
From: Tom Taber
17. Bob Gaudio
From: Stuart Miller
18. Re: House Of The Rising Sun
From: Harold Shackelford
19. Tim Rice and "Disco"
From: Michael Edwards
20. Version Galore.
From: Julio Niño
21. Re: Bubblegum CDs
From: Kim Cooper
22. Re: Disco CD comps
From: David Parkinson
23. Re: The Wild Ones / Chip Taylor
From: Phil Milstein
24. Modern Doo Wop
From: Kingsley Abbott
25. Re: Shortest track of all time
From: Joe Nelson
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:16:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Stewart Mason
Subject: Re: Disco & computers ?
Bill Brown wrote:
> A record cannot truly be called "disco" unless there was some computer
> programming involved in the production.
Are you counting all synthesizers as computers? (Because analogue synths
weren't computers, and therefore by your logic, the first disco records
came out around 1982.) Or are you just thinking in terms of electronic
drums and sequencers? If the latter, you might be surprised to learn
that they weren't used as often in disco records as you might think. For
example, that amazingly precise lockstep beat that underpins the entirety
of Donna Summer's "Love To Love You Baby" -- which I'm sure you'll agree
was a disco record -- comes courtesy of Keith Forsey's left foot. Those
are live drums, but deliberately played without the inflection that an
Earl Palmer or a Bernard Purdie would give them. I've often assumed that
producer Giorgio Moroder was influenced on some level by the German
progressive band Neu!, whose use of an unchanging, uninflected 4/4 beat
was their sonic trademark.
Stewart
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:19:16 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Beatles
Mike McKay wrote:
> But my most memorable "first Beatle hearing" was "Strawberry Fields
> Forever." I was a big fan of Dick Summer's "Nite Lite" show on WBZ
> Boston, and I stayed up way late on a school night (at least 1:00 or
> 2:00 a.m.) to hear his promised first airing of it. When I heard the
> false ending, with the backwards mellotron coming back in, I was
> positively psychedelicized! I can truthfully say that this moment had
> a profound effect on me...it was like nothing was gonna be the same
> from that point forward.
Mike, Exactly what I am speaking of. I can often remember the dates
of songs by my radio tapes and what I was doing the moment I recorded
the song!! I'd love to hear your Beatles hour on WKYC tape!
I heard Dick Summer's show too, but not often in Dodge City, Kansas. He
had a lot of fun for a laid back voice and altho he came off
underground, he often played pop stuff on his shows as well. Personally,
I taped "Strawberry Fields" first off WLS with Ron Riley commenting over
the "return ending", "isn't that ending the wierdest, huh?". How true!
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:11:28 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Looking for Mob cd or songs for dad?
Chris wrote:
> Hi there, I just recently came across this board. Here's my question.
> With Christmas coming up I'm looking for something really good to get
> him. He always talks about growing up listening to The Mob. He went
> to a few of their shows, and said that they were one of the best
> bands to see live. He's been looking for years for a cd of the Mob or
> even a cd with just any of their songs. SO basically I'm trying to
> find a cd/record with The Mob songs on it. The important ones, "I Dig
> everything about you" and " Give it to me"! So if anyone knows a
> place where I could order this cd or any info at all would be very
> helpful. Thanks.
Chris, If our own James Holvay is listening (Reading?), he was a
leading member of the Mob! He co-wrote essentially all their original
material including the 2 hits you mentioned. If James doesn't answer
you, email me off line and maybe I can help you out.
Clark
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:50:03 +0300
From: Andres
Subject: Re: Shortest track of all time
Mike McKay:
> Now, would anyone like to make nominations for the shortest *track*
> of all time? (Warning: somewhat of a trick question!)
Nutopia - six seconds of silence (track 6) from John Lennon's Mind
Games LP.
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:22:07 +0100
From: Eddy
Subject: Re: Shortest track of all time
Mike McKay asked:
> Now, would anyone like to make nominations for the shortest *track*
> of all time? (Warning: somewhat of a trick question!)
Lennon...Nutopian National Anthem ?
Eddy
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:26:27 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Beatles - Born Too Late
Paul Bryant wrote:
> ...I often wonder how young music fans regard the huge mass of great
> stuff from (let's say) the 60s and 70s. I myself had to catch up on
> the good 50s stuff, but I was only a decade behind - what if you were
> starting out today?! The mind boggles.
Thing is, with us "old timers" who lived it, we continue (thru S'pop
and research and friends) to discover lost 60's gems all the time. I
don't think I'll ever run dry of 60's material to search for! It's
just nice to know the more familiar stuff from first hand knowledge!
Clark
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:33:28 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: the very last day
Phil Milstein wrote:
> I heard a generic cover version the other day of a song I recognize,
> but cannot quite place who I know it by. It's called "The Very Last
> Day." A Google search shows a prominent version by The Hollies, but
> I don't know if that's the one I'm familiar with. Anyone else cut
> this one? I know I'll feel like a dope once the answers start coming
> in, but that's never stopped me before.
Certainly the Hollies' version was a hit in Europe. I am thinking a
few acts covered this, but if you heard it on radio, I can't imagine
it even being the Hollies unless you are in Europe. In the US, I
believe I have a version by the Grasshoppers, a midwest band, but I
can't imagine you heard this one either. Great song, no matter who
does it!
Clark
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 06:24:31 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Bee Gees & White Soul
Phil Milstein wrote:
> Has there ever been a song written and originally recorded by white
> artists that was more accepted as authentically black than "To Love
> Somebody"? The acceptance of this song among the soul elite has to
> have been one of the great thrills of the Bee Gees' career.
The Magnificent Men on Capitol were very soulful. "Peace of Mind"
ranks right up there with the great group ballads of the late 6T's.
Both vocally and instrumentally, arrangement-wise. Then there are The
Righteous Brothers who sound like The Knight Brothers. More later if
the thread has legs.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 8:07:40 -0500
From: Orion
Subject: Re: Japanese Bubblegum CDs
One thing for sure, these CDs are harder than ever to get ahold of.
There is someone on ebay selling them again. Oddly, enough this
person and supposedly this person's friend are the only people I
have ever seen sell them. If anyone has any place to get them other
than from Hairlessspider on ebay please let me know. Indeed there
are some great songs on these CDs. Because of them I have purchased
several LPs "Main Attraction", "Silver", "Good N Plenty" and many
others because of one song. I have not been disappointed by the LPs.
Orion
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:41:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: One hit wonders and bucking the trends.
Steve Harvey wrote:
> Of course there have been lots of one hit wonders. My point is that
> disco rarely spawned acts that survived past a couple of hits.
This is quite right, but how about the weird example of the very
horrible disco act Boney M - they didn't have all that many hits, but
two of the hits they did have are in the UK all-time best selling
singles top ten!
pb
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:10:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: 4 Seasons' "Gazette"
Richard Hattersley wrote:
> Why do you think "American Crucifixion" is an embarrassment
> by the way? To me it stands out as being as musically
> inventive as the rest of the album.
It's because it has a really REALLY horrible main tune
which is like nails scraped along a blackboard, sung
in a particularly unconvincing way; it also seems to
be a lame addition to the operatic pop attempts of the
time - Macarthur Park and its follow-ups being the big
daddies, then things like Eloise by Paul & Barry Ryan,
Excerpt from a Teenage Opera and many album tracks
too. And finally, the whole album is straining
mightily to be "relevant" like Bob Gaudio said to
himself - uh oh, the Seasons are beginning to sound
old hat, better get hip with this protest stuff. So he
went to see The Graduate and heard Pleasant Valley
Sunday and created an album whose main target seems to
be the hypocrisy of middle-class American parents,
which is a soft target if ever there was one. There
are some cracking songs on the album but my goodness
there's some bad ones too!
By the way - I managed to get myself a CD of this
by trading with a guy in Australia. So if anyone's
interested drop me a line off list.
pb
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:13:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Shortest track of all time
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Even a silent track lasts a particular amount of
> time, so one silent track could be shorter than another.
> I know of two silent tracks:
> 1. The album WCPAEB 3 (West Coast Pop Art Experimental
> Band), from about 1968, had a silent track that ran several
> minutes entitled "Anniversary of World War III." Get it?
> 2. A silent single--three minutes of silence if I remember
> correctly--was available for jukeboxes at the beginning of
> the rock and roll era so that diners who hated the music could
> have a few minutes' respite. "Three Glorious Minutes of Silence"
> or something similar was the title. May have done well in
> restaurants, but can you imagine Casey playing it in his
> countdown show if it sold enough to make the charts? Love it!
There's jolly old John Lennon's Nutoptian National Anthem on
Mind Games, I believe that's 3 seconds of silence. But various
British Death Metal (or whatever their mini-genre is) bands have
recorded songs allegedly 1 second long, so it's going to be hard
to beat those.
pb
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:40:21 -0600
From: Justin McDevitt
Subject: The first Disco record
Hello Spectropop,
For me, disco will always be linked with the mid to late 70s,
as a definitive sound which incorporated elements of pop and
"soulmusic", yet had its own distinct sound and rhythm/beat.
Disco was also a cultural phenomenon, defined by the venues
in which it was played and danced to, the clothes, the lighting,
the whole 70s, pre-Aids singles scene.
A further defining component of the Disco sound was the
instrumentation which blended strings, horns and the requisite
bass and background guitar, along with various types of
synthesizers whose integration into rock and progressive music,
(though fairly recent) was fairly well established.
All this being said, my choice for the first Disco record is
1974's Jive Talk by the Bee Gees. Rock The Boat, by the Hughes
Corporation, (also from the summer of 1974) is a very close second.
Justin McDevitt
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:25:01 -0500
From: Steven Prazak
Subject: Re: Shortest Track of all time/Short elpees
I seem to recall a "tune" by '70s band Mason Prophet called,
if memory serves, Apple Tart that lasted for one mighty
solitary second.
Another short album was Capitol's Beatles Story, inexplicably
a double album set, with side 4 clocking in at an anemic 9
minutes. Amusingly enough, the Japanese CD re-ish from the
'80s is also a 2-CD set.
Steven Prazak
Atlanta
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:53:17 -0500
From: Alan Zweig
Subject: born too early
Martin Jensen (Re: Beatles - Born Too Late)
> Well, I can answer that. I was born in 1980 and began to pay
> serious interest to the 60s after going through the obligatory
> 'Beatles-phase' as a 14-year old. ('obligatory' meaning something
> that I guess EVERYONE during or since the hey-day of the fab four
> have gone through at some point in their life.)
> For me, the cool thing about investigating music of the 60s and
> 70s has been the way one thing leads to another: from the Beatles
> you eventually go on to other great Britsh groups like the Zombies
> and the Kinks, from the Beach Boys to the Association and Mark Eric,
> from Spector to Nitzsche, Bono or Tempo and so on. There's no better
> feeling than tracing the influence of a cool genre or group, and in
> the process discovering some great songs, artists or groups.
Maybe somebody already made this point but just because you were born
"on time" to hear the music of the sixties, didn't mean you did. Myself,
I'm sure I've heard more in the last few years, through reissues mostly,
than I heard during the actual sixties. It's true that if you were alive
back then, there were a couple of artists like the Beatles or the Stones
or Dylan that you got the experience of anticipating the next record and
hearing the changes. And that was fun. But it's not necessarily true that
"being there" leads to the greater understanding or the greater enjoyment.
Sometimes you can be standing too close.
I know that none of you youngsters are exactly saying "I wish I'd been
alive back then" but people do say things like that and though I
understand it, it also seems counterintuitive to me. I remember this guy
about my age who told me that he wished he'd been born in the forties
instead of the fifties so that he could have bought doowop singles when
they came out and paid a lot less than he did later in the late sixties
(and beyond) when he got into that music. I tried to tell him that if
he'd been born in the forties, there's no guarantee he would have gotten
into doowop. Especially given the fact that in the late sixties, he got
into doowop and ignored all the "psychedelic" stuff of the day. He didn't
seem to understand what I was saying. But then he made my point for me by
informing me that he'd gone to Woodstock but ONLY to see Sha-na-na.
AZ
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:03:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Taber
Subject: Re: Shortest track of all time
I remember toying with the idea of issuing a "Disco version"
of the Lennon-Ono silent cut on a 12 inch 45, and I believe
some other sicko might have actually done it!
The shortest track I know of is (hope I get the name right!)
"Magic Melody Part 2" by Les Paul and Mary Ford. Supposedly
some DJs complained because the original, which scraped the
bottom of the charts in '55, seemed to be missing the final
two notes, which are the "two bits" part of "shave and a
haircut." (If I've lost Andres again, I apologize - his
English skills are better than many of the people I deal with
every day.) So Capitol put out a DJ 45 with just those two notes,
and it's maybe 2 seconds long. I found my copy by accident on
Ebay, and at the $8.00 or so I paid for it, it's the most
expensive per second record I've ever purchased!
Tom Taber
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:08:36 -0000
From: Stuart Miller
Subject: Bob Gaudio
Frank wrote:
> While I can't comment on the record you are referring to I can
> comment on the record sleeve. It is a take-off of the Four Seasons
> album "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette", also produced by Bob Gaudio,
> which predates "Thick As A Brick" by a couple of years. I know of
> another record released on this label, "Buena Vista" by a
> group/artist called Light, this too produced by Gaudio. The Gazette
> label was a Bob Gaudio venture to promote new artists. While I don't
> know just how many records were released on this label I feel safe in
> saying the number was small.
Frank,
I had no idea there had been a Gazette label. Can you tell me
when it was set up and who distributed it? Also, any ideas
about how many records it issued?
with thanks
Stuart
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:22:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Harold Shackelford
Subject: Re: House Of The Rising Sun
Bill George wrote:
> ..."House Of The Rising Sun"....
> I always liked the Jody Miller version.
The Supremes version of "House Of The Rising Sun" from
the 1964 Motown LP "A Bit Of Liverpool" is my nomination
for the most unnecessary version to be sung to date.
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:10:12 -0000
From: Michael Edwards
Subject: Tim Rice and "Disco"
I recall that when Tim Rice used to broadcast on London's
Capital Radio in the 70s, he once stated that disco started
with two records: George McCrae's "Rock Your Baby" and William
DeVaughan's "Be Thankful For What You Got". "Rock Your Baby"
has already received a nod on this site but it's the full-length
version you want with the keyboard playing of Harry Casey (of KC
& The Sunshine Band fame) taking up the last two or three minutes.
I wasn't sure about "Be Thankful For What You Got" as I thought
it was too slow. It did reach number 1 R&B and number 4 pop in 1974.
Twenty years later it showed up on Massive Attack's first album,
"Blue Line". I'm still not sure whether or not you can dance to it,
but it says a lot about Mr. Rice's ability to pick 'em.
Incidentally, another radio personality, Miami talk-show host, Neil
Rogers always preferred KC & The Sunshine Band to Gloria Estafan and
the Miami Sound Machine when discussing local Miami music. KC duetted
with Teri DeSario on a great revival of Barbara Mason's "Yes I'm
Ready" in 1979, which allows me to segue into the Bee Gees as Barry
Gibb wrote Teri DeSario's pop-disco classic, "Ain't Nothing Gonna
Keep Me From You". Released on Casablanca Records in 1978, this
wonderful piece of pop confection was produced by Denny Randell and
is another quality notch in the songwriting belt of Mr. Gibb.
Mike
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:11:43 -0000
From: Julio Niño
Subject: Version Galore.
Don said:
> Didn't Karina do a version of "Will You Love Me Tomorrow"?
> It was called either "Querrás Amarme Mañana" or "Me Querrás
> Mañana". If you have that, I would love it if you could play
> to musica.
Don,
Yes , I have that Track, "¿ Querrás amarme mañana? "(Will You
Love Me Tomorrow?) by Karina. It´s included in a 1974 LP. Of
course I can play it in musica, but I must say that it is quite
a horrendous cover, in a pseudo reggae style (talking of reggae,
you sure know the versions of "Will you love me tomorrow?" made
by the Jamaican singers Slim Smith and Dave Baker in the sixties,
both are very good). If you are still interested and dare to
listen to karina's version and want to judge for yourself,
let me know.
Much more interesting, in my opinion, are some French versions,
mentioned in your "Wish list" That I've listened to, like "Fiere
de Toi" by Audrey ("Walking Proud" ), the wonderful "Mon Ami"
("Where Do I Go") by Silvie Vartan, "Tu la revois" ("He's In Town")
and "Et Quelque Chose Me Dit" ("I'm Into Something Good") by
Ria Bartock, and the latter also by Richard Anthony, or "Reviendra
T'il Encore" (Will you love me tomorrow?) by Jocelyne.
Julio Niño.
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:03:41 -0800
From: Kim Cooper
Subject: Re: Bubblegum CDs
Patrick,
Scout's honor, the "Bubblegum Music is the Naked Truth" folks are not
responsible for the "Bubblegum M*****f****r" CD series... at least,
the editorial staff ain't. And if one of the contributors is involved,
they've kept it verrry quiet.
Kim
--
Scram
PO Box 461626
Hollywood, CA 90046-1626
http://www.scrammagazine.com
Scram #18 out now with Emitt Rhodes, the Ramones, Marty Thau, Smoosh
and more.
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:02:37 -0800
From: David Parkinson
Subject: Re: Disco CD comps
Phil Milstein wrote:
> A great point. Which leads me to wonder if there aren't any CD
> comps of early/obscure disco -- really good collections, I mean
James Botticelli:
> A really good representative sample of early and not well known are
> the two David Mancuso compilations called "The Loft" named after
> the storied gay underground club in early 7T's NYC.
Another excellent CD is "Larry Levan Live at the Paradise Garage", a
double CD on Strut Records from the UK. It was taken straight off the
mixing board on one night in 1979, and sounds fantastic. You will not
be able to NOT shake your booty when it plays.
Also, another interesting collection of trax is found on the Soul Jazz
CD "Philadelphia Roots", which covers that period which I really love,
where Philly soul is morphing into disco.
Thos David Mancuso things are interesting also, but perhaps a bit too
eclectic to classify as "disco".
David
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:06:27 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: The Wild Ones / Chip Taylor
Susan Hilton wrote:
> Yes, that's the band, I was just reading about this in the liners to
> From Nowhere, a CD on Repertoire that came out this year. WT was
> written by Chip Taylor, brother of movie actor John Voight. The Wild
> Ones recorded it in 1965 and when Troggs manager Larry Page heard their
> tape on a trip to NYC he brought the song back for the band, thinking
> it'd make a good B side. It was recorded in less than 15 minutes and
> the Troggs had to beg to make it an A side. (My question for David is,
> why didn't you answer the trivia question and win something??)
The Wild Ones were known more for their ridiculously tall, plasticized
pompadours than for their music. I regret to say I've never heard their
version of "Wild Thing." One of their later guitarists was Ivan Julian,
who went on to play behind Richard Hell in The Voidoids. On "Wild Thing"
(U.A., 1965), they were backing Jordan Christopher, a singer who was
more known for his affair with Sybil Burton, the woman Richard Burton
dumped in favor of Liz Taylor, than for HIS music. This all came
together at Arthur's, a midtown Manhattan discotheque (in the classic
sense of the term) that was briefly popular with the Jet Set.
While trying to Google up a photo of The Wild Ones, I instead came
across a terrific interview with Chip Taylor, at
http://www.rockzilla.net/ebertowski8.html, which goes into some detail
about the creation of "Wild Thing." Evie Sands fans will not want to
overlook it, either. If anyone has any recommendations about the more
recent albums he discusses there, I'd love to hear 'em.
One of the things I most respect about Chip Taylor is his ability to
write equally well in both hard ("Wild Thing") and soft ("Angel Of The
Morning") modes. Another underheralded writer who fits that same bill is
Sonny Curtis, whose abilities could stretch from "I Fought The Law" to
"Love Is All Around," the Mary Tyler Moore Show theme song.
--Phil M.
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:22:38 -0000
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Modern Doo Wop
catching up a bit...
The Capris had a fine album out as part of the Ambient Sound project
along with The Jive 5, Randy & the Rainbows, The elegants etc. the
series has been discussed before her - suffice it to say that any of
the albums are well worth picking up.
There was also the Ace '21st Century Doo Wop' collection in 2001 - 26
very nice tracks including Kenny vance, The Roomates and the Legends
Of Doo Wop (who also had their own Ace issue around the same time).
I have a spare copy of this collection should anyone want to offer
something like the Kenny Vance 'Looking For An Echo' soundtrack in
exchange!
Kingsley
RIP Teddy Randazzo - fine fine songs....
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:24:34 -0500
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: Re: Shortest track of all time
> A silent single--three minutes of silence if I remember correctly
> --was available for jukeboxes at the beginning of the rock and roll
> era so that diners who hated the music could have a few minutes'
> respite. "Three Glorious Minutes of Silence" or something similar
> was the title. May have done well in restaurants, but can you
> imagine Casey playing it in his countdown show if it sold enough to
> make the charts? Love it!
"Three Glorious Minutes of Surface Noise and Scratch". Anyone got an
mp3?
Joe Nelson
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