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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
From: Aliled
2. Robbs & WRIT
From: Clay Stabler
3. Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
From: Jon Adelson
4. Re: Tom Wilson
From: Phil Milstein
5. Re: Memfist
From: Jeff Lemlich
6. Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
From: Larry Lapka
7. Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
From: Steve Harvey
8. Tom Wilson
From: Steve Harvey
9. Guess I'm Dumb
From: Susan
10. Re: Bootlegs
From: Mark
11. Re: Liz Damon and the Orient Express
From: Steve Harvey
12. Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
From: Roger Smith
13. Re: Dreck in the charts
From: Paul Bryant
14. Re; Kathy McCord
From: Francesc Sole
15. Re: Cincinnati
From: Phil Milstein
16. Re: Andy Kim / Baron Longfellow
From: Mark
17. Re: Layng Martine
From: Clark Besch
18. Re: Cincinnati
From: Paul Balser
19. Re: Octavian
From: Mark
20. Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
From: Paul Bryant
21. Re: Tom Wilson / Hannukah is My Time of Year
From: Phil Milstein
22. Re: Liz Damon and the Orient Express
From: Art Longmire
23. Re: UK hitmakers, US flops
From: Peter McDonnell
24. Re: House Of The Rising Sun
From: David Coyle
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:40:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Aliled
Subject: Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
> Why is there a dearth of Hannukah songs in popular music--whether
> it be rock and roll, pop, or any other manifestation of the two?
> Now, of course, in the United States, that's really a bunch of
> nonsense. It is the major holiday of the year, especially for kids,
> and if it has become something of a "jewish" (yes, I did lowercase
> that j) Christmas, that's the way it is.
Maybe in your neck of the woods, but most Jews I know hold to the
"it's not a big holiday" idea, even if their kids get (or they, when
they were kids, got) a few presents. It seems that was primarily a
way of sidestepping issues of envy towards the kids who did celebrate
Christmas.
Less than 1.9% of the US population is Jewish (based on current
census numbers and the following):
http://www.jewishla.org/news/html/populationdrop.html
By most reasonable estimates there are anywhere from a few percentage
points more Muslims in America than Jews to roughly 60% more Muslims
than Jews in America. So a more apt question might be, why no Ramadan
tunes? ;)
In essence, you're asking why the bulk of the American population
doesn't care much about a holiday that only 1.9% population might
celebrate, one which many of that small number consider a lesser
holiday (than say, Passover or Yom Kippur). I think the answer's
self-evident. (Again, a more apt question might be, why no rockin'
Yom Kippur tunes?)
> More to my point: with all the major talents in the recording
> industry who are Jewish, why do Jews release Christmas albums? Why
> do Jewish performers not acknowledge that their holiday is as
> special as Christmas.
1) For many Christians, Christmas is THE holiday (on a religious
basis), and the basis of sheer consumerism, it's certainly the
biggest holiday in the United States. Hannukah isn't one of the
bigger holidays for Jews (on a religious basis), that'd be Yom Kippur,
the holiest day of the year. In fact, my neighbor next door (who's
Jewish, so I asked him) adds that Hannukah is definitely considered a
second-tier Jewish holiday as it was added to the Jewish calendar
"after the fact" and isn't mentioned in the Torah. In essence,
Hannukah isn't as special to Jews as Christmas is to Christians, at
least not in a strictly religious sense.
2) Christmas has become dereligionized to an extent, becoming the de
facto "winter" holiday in the US, so it makes sense as a vehicle for
songs to the masses in a way that Hannukah (still a specifically
Jewish holiday) does not. I'd venture to say that Christmas has more
to do with Santa bringing gifts to kids in most people's eyes than it
does the birth of Jesus, so in that sense it's probably less
problematic to propagate as a holiday for everyone. Easter's
undergoing a separate sort of reinterpretation, becoming more of a
bunny-bringing-candy thing than about the resurrection of Jesus . . .
oddly sort of returning to its pagan origins.
3) Sell records to nearly 100% of the population or just to 1.9% of
the population? Most of the Jewish Christmas singers you mention
became well-known partially because they pandered to the biggest
numbers possible - so there's your answer there.
> Jews have written some of the most wonderful Christmas songs of
> all that we hear every year (Mel Torme, Irving Berling among those
> writers). However, as a Jew with children, it is getting harder and
> harder every year to be virtually the outsider looking in, so to
> speak.
I feel for you there, it's tougher to fight the onslaught of
Christmas mania every year, whether your reasons are religious or
anti-commercial or for plain old reasons of sanity!
On the other hand, I looked up the lyrics for "Chesnuts Roasting On
An Open Fire" and "White Christmas" (by the fab writers you mention)
and noticed that (on those two songs at least), there's nothing at
all "religious" in either, save the word "Christmas", which made me
think that you could probably throw a pretty rocking holiday party
with "traditional" songs that don't mention Jesus (or even Christmas)
- "Jingle Bells", "Winter Wonderland" and so on.
At one point in the early '90s, 07 of the 10 all-time best-selling
Christmas albums were by Jewish performers - Neil Diamond, Barbra
Streisand (one of them had two on the list), Kenny G, Barry Manilow,
Phil Spector (not strictly the "artist", but I think we all file that
album under his name - we all do own it, don't we?), and one other I
can't recall. At one, point, the top four all-time best-selling
Christmas albums were recorded by Jewish artists!
Personally, I love the irony in that and was sad to see the likes of
Garth Brooks and other more recent non-Jews destroy this humorous bit
of trivia.
I went to a grade-school "holiday" concert and was surprised to hear
a Kwanza song, *two* Hannukah songs and even a Ramadan song. The real
irony? It was a Catholic grade school! So maybe, things are changing.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:31:57 -0500
From: Clay Stabler
Subject: Robbs & WRIT
Mark wrote:
> What are these 2 WRIT tracks you speak of? I compiled my own Robbs
> CDR with all of the singles plus the album. Is WRIT a label they
> recorded a single on? Or a radio station?
WRIT was indeed a Milwaukee radio station which issued compilation
EPs from time to time. In 1968 they issued an EP (W'R-IT 1340) with
"You Got Your Troubles" and "Louie Louie" by the Robbs along with
"Debbie On My Mind" by the Tygers and "Small Town Girl" by the Skunks.
Don't know the specifics on any other releases.
A scan of the Robbs side of the WRIT EP is in the Photos section of
the Yahoo! louie-louie group. Let me know if you'd like a copy of the
scan via e-mail.
Clay S.
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:24:58 -0000
From: Jon Adelson
Subject: Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
Paul Bryant wrote:
> Mrs Brown is OK but why anyone, even teenyboppers, bought Henery
> the Eighth is beyond me.
Perhaps because it was easy to remember the second verse.
Jon Adelson
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:49:20 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Tom Wilson
Art Longmire wrote:
> It was the very intriguing Tom Wilson, a black staff producer
> at Columbia and Verve (among others). I am extremely interested
> in Wilson, since he had a hand in many great recordings, including
> the first Velvet Underground and Mothers of Invention albums, as
> well as being the initial producer on Dylan's "Highway 61" LP.
Besides his rock C.V. Wilson also had some great credentials as a jazz
producer, including the first couple of Sun Ra albums, released on
Wilson's own label (name of which escapes me at the mo') shortly after
graduating Harvard.
Wilson was more a motivational type of producer than a great musical or
engineering talent. Lacking an identifiable sound of his own, his
records instead demonstrate imaginative ideas and constructions that
adeptly serve the respective artist's style.
While a staff producer at MGM (Verve's parent at the time) c.1968 he did
a series of radio programs, entitled "The Music Factory," in which he'd
interview an MGM recording artist while spinning theirs' and others of
the label's new releases. In the guise of a hip syndicated show, these
were in fact sheer promo. His Music Factory segment with John Cale and
Lou Reed is commonly available on bootlegs, and provides a wonderful
glimpse at Wilson's hip intellectual persona (read: he sounds completely
stoned!). I've always pictured him as the ultimate target audience of
the Playboy Advisor: black turtlenecks, great hi-fi rig, shag carpet,
Couvoisier and mood lighting.
Back in my "Lost & Found" days at WMBR I did an hour-long special on
Wilson, including a pastiche I'd made segueing the acoustic original
version of Sounds Of Silence into Wilson's folk-rock recreation. While
the edit was hardly seamless, it still came out pretty good. If there is
any interest in hearing it, would this be acceptable for musica?
--Phil M.
P.S. I realize I was the one who'd asked who produced the S.O.S. overdubs,
yet here I am suggesting I'd known the answer all along. The fact is
that I'd always heard it to have been Wilson, but became uncertain
recently after reading, in authoritative-seeming sources, other names
inserted in place of his for that role.
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:15:48 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Re: Memfist
Steve Harvey wrote:
> There was a funny dj bit (Imus maybe?) where this dj called
> information and just said the lyrics to the bewildered operator
> in reply to her questions ("I'll need more info than that, sir.")
That sounds like "Ma Bell You Got Me By The Calls" by Joey Reynolds,
issued on the Pyramid label. I used to play that one on the air,
believe it or not (college radio, of course).
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:11:54 -0000
From: Larry Lapka
Subject: Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
Simon White:
> Bit off topic really, but this mornings re-run of "Bewitched"
> (I can't do anything in the morning before three cups of coffee
> and half an hour with Samantha Stevens) was a Christmas edition.
>
> The Stevens and the Kravitzes each take home an orphan for
> the Christmas holidays and give them the full tree/present/
> Santa schtick - despite the seemingly obvious fact that Gladys
> and Abner Kravitz's are... Jewish.
>
> It's a particularly bad episode.
Yes, Judaism is often used as a plot device, and nothing more, on TV.
It is particularly sad.
More on the topic, Peggy Lee did a good rendition of the Bewitched
theme song years ago. I have it, and it worth looking for.
Larry Lapka
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:50:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
> "Henry the Eighth" The song's line "Second verse, same as the
> first!" became a catch-phrase with the kids in my neighborhood
> in Dayton, Ohio.
The reason behind the repeat of the second verse was the Hermits'
version is only part of original music hall tune. I think Herman
just used the chorus and neglected the main verse. I remember
hearing it the first time on Crazy College. You wouldn't recognize
the tune when it started.
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:54:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Tom Wilson
Tom Wilson seems to hit extremes with people. I remember John Cale
talking about Wilson producing the first Velvets lp. Seemed he was
too busy with various female interests to put in any real time on
the Velvets' efforts. Got the feeling that they produced it and
had his name attached since he was the hot shot producer of Simon,
Garfunkel and Zimmerman at that point.
As for Zappa, Wilson based his signing them on hearing their
folkrock epic, Trouble Coming Everyday, which was about the Watts
riot and race relations. Heard them play live at some club. Of
course, little did he know what he was really getting into. None of
their other stuff came close to that tune. Surprise! Surprise!! as
Gomer would say.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:32:51 -0500
From: Susan
Subject: Guess I'm Dumb
Steve Harvey wrote:
> Not to mention, "Guess I'm Dumb", did nothing for Glen Campbell
> over in the UK.
I don't think it did much for him in the US, either!
Susan
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:26:20 -0000
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Bootlegs
> What a shame, as Sony owns some really great hard to find
> stuff, like the entire Mainstream Catalog, which they bought
> in the 70s. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most of the
> execs at Sony in the catalogue dept DONT EVEN KNOW what they
> really own....and dont really care because what they do know
> are the top sellers like The Byrds and Springsteen and Paul
> Simon and Billy Joel.
This is why bootlegs are the only way we will ever hear this stuff.
The labels won't bother going after anyone because A) They don't even
know what they own anyway and B) It's not costing them anything as
they would never issue the material anyway so why waste any money on
legal costs. What I don't understand are companies like Warners and
Universal which charge a ridiculous licensing fee, making it
impossible for them to do.
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:01:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Liz Damon and the Orient Express
What was the second Liz Damon's Orient Express album on White Whale?
I have the first with 1900, but never saw a second. However, I do
have ger Cartan Tours presents lp . . . a bonus gift lp for their
customers.
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:57:08 -0500
From: Roger Smith
Subject: Re: Hannukah is My Time of Year
> More to my point: with all the major talents in the recording
> industry who are Jewish, why do Jews release Christmas albums?
Because Christmas music sells a lot better? :-)
> Why do Jewish performers not acknowledge that their holiday
> is as special as Christmas.
Although Chanukah has interesting stories associated with it
and some fun traditions and songs, it's really a relatively
minor holiday. It just gets more attention, especially in the
US, because it occurs near Christmas each year.
It never really bothered me that Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand,
and others have recorded Christmas albums. They're nice songs
and the singers bring something to the performances.
-- Roger
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:33:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Dreck in the charts
Paul Bryant wrote:
> Makes me wonder if all the crooners died, or if it was their
> audience which all died, because I can't remember the same
> phenomenon in the 80s or 90s.
Richard Havers;
> The crooners metamorphosed into Robson and Jerome!
>
> 'Unchained Melody' and 'I Believe' spent a total of eleven weeks
> at No.1 in 1995.
You're so horribly right - this proves that in Britain the crooning
tendency lurks just below the surface, waiting to emerge the moment
we let out guard slip.
pb
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:49:51 -0000
From: Francesc Sole
Subject: Re; Kathy McCord
Country Paul wrote:
> Does anyone have any further info on the record or Kathy McCord?
Oh, that question made me step out from my long lurkerdom. A couple
of months ago I found an Lp by Kathy McCord, self-titled, CTI Records,
actually a Spanish pressing. From 1970. The two songs you mention are
not included in the Lp (I would love to hear them!). It's one of the
most rewarding finds for me in recent times.
Track list is:
Rainbow Ride
I'm Leaving Home
Candle Waxing
Baby James
The Love Flow
New York Good Sugar/Love Lyric#7
For You, Child
Jennipher
Take Away This Pain
Velvet Smile
All songs written by Kathy McCord except for I'm Leaving Home, which
is the Lennon-McCartney song, but with the lyrics modified for a
girl to sing. Yes, she sings "I'm leaving home after living alone
for so many years..."
Recorded at Van Gelder Studios
Rudy Van Gelder, Engineer
Recorded November 18, 19, 20, 24; December 2, 1969
Produced by Creed Taylor.
Further research shows this was reissued on cd in Japan sometime ago:
Vivid (Jap) VSCD 728 [CD]and describe it as a jazzy record (no way!)
Kathy's beautiful voice reminds me a lot of contemporary singer
Aimee Mann. This is an excellent folk-rock record, but it also contains
very good string and brass arrangements throughout. Rainbow Ride is a
magnificent example of this, with her sweet whispering voice gradually
leading to a blissful musical explosion. Don't hesitate to pick it up
if you see it! I would also love to know what became of her.
best!
Francesc
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:22:54 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Cincinnati
Dan Hughes wrote:
> John's note about Rusty York, in which he spoke of a Cincinnati
> studio, made me wonder how many musicians grew up in Cincy. I
> know of Bobby Bare and Roy Rogers (the first one); seems to me
> I've heard of others but they don't come to mind. Help?
I believe both Bootsy Collins and Roger and Larry Trout of the Zap Band
are from Cincinnati, and I think that Bootsy also had an older brother
who preceded him into James Brown's band. Add to that the fact that
Harry Carlson, founder of Cincinnati's famed Fraternity label, grew up
in Funk, Nebraska, and I think you have at least the sideways makings of
a funk haven.
Carlson, by the way, was said to have been one suave MF -- the polar
opposite, in other words, of his crosstown rival, Syd Nathan of King
Records. But I digress -- getting back to the topic, The Casinos were
also from Cincinnati.
--Phil M.
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:19:21 -0000
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Andy Kim / Baron Longfellow
Laura Pinto:
> I recently won auctions on two Baron Longfellow albums from
> eBay. Baron Longfellow, for the uninitiated, is actually
> Andy Kim, a rose by another name smelling just as sweet.
> The first album, from 1981, is self-titled, the second, from
> 1984, is called "Prisoner By Design."
Just curious but does he do any good bubblegum on the LPs or is it
all singer-songwriter mush?
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:16:57 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Layng Martine
Clark Besch:
> It is certainly a possiblity that those Date sides could show
> up on a legit comp someday, thus garnering a small royalty, so
> it is likely a little bit of money and more likely, the point
> that someone else is making money and the actual artist isn't.
> Same old story, I'm afraid. Anyway, it is often a touchy subject,
> and I can see your side, my side, Lyang's son's side. Who is
> right, I dunno......
Not likely. Under what guise? The best of Layng Martine box? The Date
records story - all of the non-hits? Let's be realistic, its a
kneejerk reaction not at all based in reality. Kind of like Andy Kim
killing the best of project that Universal had prepared on him.
Didn't want it released because he considers himself "a current
artist". Yeah, he and Bobby Sherman are both really hot today! But
getting back to the original issue, I would think they would just be
happy that anyone cared enough about someone who barely dented the
charts and had just a few scattered singles released 30-35 years ago
that no one bought. To answer your question, if it was me, unless I
was destitute I would just be happy to have something I did that long
ago being worthy of bootlegging.
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:30:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Paul Balser
Subject: Re: Cincinnati
> John's note about Rusty York, in which he spoke of a Cincinnati
> studio, made me wonder how many musicians grew up in Cincy. I
> know of Bobby Bare and Roy Rogers (the first one); seems to me
> I've heard of others but they don't come to mind. Help?
Bobby Helms, Mel Carter, Andy Williams went to school in Cincy for
awhile.
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:41:13 -0000
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Octavian
> Mark, I can't tell you how great I felt when I first heard
> "Good Feeling To Know" by Octavian while DXing in 75 off CHUM!
> I searched for the 45 and found it at the bottom of a junk shop
> 2 ft x 2 ft box of 45s about 5 years later! Talk about a great
> find! A friend ran down their LP in Florida for me a few years
> later. Great pop rock! Even more interesting was dropping the
> phasing on the LP version of the song. If these guys had more
> output like that LP, I too would love to hear it!!
They also had a later single called I Can't Stop Myself from Loving
You, a great pop song which is a cover of an Australian hit by
William Shakespeare from 1973. Excellent group.
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:53:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: USA No 1s which were UK chart failures
Steve Harvey wrote:
> Not to mention, "Guess I'm Dumb", did nothing for Glen Campbell
> over in the UK.
Nor in America either. But it might be due for a revival in his
future live shows.
pb
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:56:01 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Tom Wilson / Hannukah is My Time of Year
Steve Harvey wrote:
> Tom Wilson seems to hit extremes with people. I remember John Cale
> talking about Wilson producing the first Velvets lp. Seemed he was
> too busy with various female interests to put in any real time on
> the Velvets' efforts. Got the feeling that they produced it and
> had his name attached since he was the hot shot producer of Simon,
> Garfunkel and Zimmerman at that point.
Wilson's relationship to the VU went deeper than that. It was he who got
them signed to Verve, and oversaw their recordings while there. In fact,
when they first hooked up Wilson was still working for Columbia, and it
was to that label that Paul Morrissey (Andy Warhol's business mgr. at
the time, and later the director of his movies) had hoped to get the
band signed. (The bulk of the "banana" album was already in the can, and
with Wilson at the helm they added "Sunday Morning," which he produced
with an eye toward AM airplay!) But Wilson told them he was about to
jump to Verve, and suggested that if they wait until he's situated over
there he could get them good care.
Ironically, it was probably the later signing of The Mothers that tossed
the VU down a peg in Verve's eyes. With the much squeakier wheel Herb
Cohen manipulating behind the scenes, The Mothers' debut was put on the
fast track, while the Velvets' debut was held back for nearly a year,
losing them a good deal of momentum in the process.
Aliled wrote:
> Personally, I love the irony in that and was sad to see the likes of
> Garth Brooks and other more recent non-Jews destroy this humorous bit
> of trivia.
I wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger there -- I hear his name
originally was Brookenstein!
--Phil Mil
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:04:00 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Liz Damon and the Orient Express
Steve Harvey wrote:
> What was the second Liz Damon's Orient Express album on White Whale?
> I have the first with 1900, but never saw a second. However, I do
> have ger Cartan Tours presents lp . . . a bonus gift lp for their
> customers.
I have the album somewhere and will keep an eye out for it. It seems
to be a lot rarer than the first LP (of which I have no less than
four copies). I do remember that it consists primarily of covers and
after playing it I didn't rate it as highly as the first one, in that
there were no standout tracks like "1900 Yesterday" and "You're
Falling in Love". The bonus LP you mention sounds interesting, I
always like custom LPs of that sort put out by clubs and resorts. I
have the Frank Sinatra Cal Neva 45 of "Ring-a-Ding" for instance, as
well as a West Indian show band issued by a nightclub, featuring the
great reggae/ska guitarist Ernest Ranglin.
Art
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:11:36 -0800
From: Peter McDonnell
Subject: Re: UK hitmakers, US flops
A casual glance at singles chart lists of big British hitmakers who did
nada Stateside shows Cliff Richard as the all time leader, with nearly
65 top 20 singles in Britain between 1958 and 1983,( four of which made
top 20 in the US); the Shadows had 24 top 20 hits in the UK from 1960
through 1980, none of them hits here; Slade, The Small Faces, Status
Quo, The Move, The Jam, Shakin' Stevens, Showaddywaddy (who?), Roy Wood,
all show up as doing big things there and not much here.
I think I heard that the first single to be number one in both countries
simultaneously was "Get Off Of My Cloud". I have no way of knowing if
that's erroneous. Anybody?
friscopedro
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:15:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: House Of The Rising Sun
My favorite version of "House Of The Rising Sun" after the Animals
is the one by the Sundowners, a UK harmony beat group. I think
there was a bit of a challenge over this, as both versions pretty
much came out around the same time. Of course, the Sundowners got
trounced by the Animals, who were already set to try to conquer
America.
They apparently decided to work up a version so that they wouldn't
be accused of being too much like wannabes when they toured with
Chuck Berry.
That being said, I really like the Sundowners version, whose lyrics
are a bit closer to the Leadbelly original, and the melody is
tweaked a bit. It has a more folky sound than the Animals version.
It's a lot like the Four Pennies' version of "Black Girl" (aka "In
The Pines" or "Where Did You Sleep Last Night?"), but without the
big finish.
David
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