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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Musica Lollipops
From: Clark Besch
2. Claire
From: Stuart Miller
3. Re:Best Lines from songs
From: Bob Hanes
4. Good/Bad lyrics
From: Guy Lawrence
5. Bad Rhymes/B. Shafto
From: Alan V. Karr
6. Bobby Shafto
From: Larry Lapka
7. Re: "Witchi Tai To"
From: Declan Meehan
8. Re: Rhymin' pearls
From: S.J. Dibai
9. Re: Jimmy Cross / When Jackie walks in the room / America v...
From: Bob Rashkow
10. Clairifyin'
From: Alan Gordon
11. Re: Aldon Music Staffers 1962
From: Mike C.
12. Re: Snuff Garrett & "Strings"
From: Paul Bryant
13. Re: Bobby Shafto
From: David Coyle
14. Re: Da da-da da
From: Dan Hughes
15. Re: He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss)
From: David Coyle
16. Jerry Yester
From: Dave Heasman
17. Re: Joe Brown and the Bruvvers
From: David Coyle
18. Re: Bad rhymes/bad grammar
From: Paul Bryant
19. Re: Folk-Rock Special
From: David Coyle
20. Re: "Without you I'd be a little lost lamb..."
From: Phil Chapman
21. Re: The Hollies - Long Road Home
From: David Coyle
22. Re: The 1958 murder of John Dolphin
From: Joe Nelson
23. Re: Bad Lines
From: David Coyle
24. Re: Bad Rhymes
From: Steve Harvey
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:21:20 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Musica Lollipops
Hi, per an offline request, Lollipops' "Freight Train to Boston"
is now playing too.....Clark
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:31:42 -0000
From: Stuart Miller
Subject: Claire
Ian Chippett:
> I certainly wouldn't include myself among the Mind Police: as I said I
> loved this song at the time as well as G O'S's other stuff but he was
> never the world's sharpest lyricist and he slipped up here with the "you
> get to me in a way I can't describe" bit. I don't really suppose he was
> saying what he seemed to be implying but these days they'd be down on
> him like a ton of bricks. My plea to otherwise great songwriters like G
> O'S is : Get yourself a literate lyricist. The words matter. Even if
> you think they don't, some of us do.
Ian - FYI, Clare was the daughter of GOS' manager at the time,
Gordon Mills. He would baby sit for her.
Continuing my totally one dimensional contribution to this site,
there was a 4 Seasons record, "Goodbye Girl" which caused the
same confusion and discussion. The picture was further muddied
with this track owing to the fact that it was the B side to
their recently discussed single "Saturday's Father" which was
a paean to divorced fathers and the bridge was the soundtrack of
children playing.
The discussion around "Goodbye Girl" was, was Frankie Valli singing
to his daughter or to his girlfriend? As I recall, the general
consensus at the time was that he was "speaking" to his daughter
but none of us could really be sure. The closing line, "Daddy's gone"
didn't help either.
Such are the problems and questions that challenge us in life.
Stuart Miller
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:30:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Hanes
Subject: Re:Best Lines from songs
The Lovin Spoonful- "and ran out the doo flambeau"
The Right Reverend Bob, dumb angel chapel,
Church of the Harmonic Overdub
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:32:40 -0000
From: Guy Lawrence
Subject: Good/Bad lyrics
As a huge fan of dance craze records I've often marvelled
at the lyrics the strictures of the format throw up.
They range from the superb:
"There's a dance spreadin' 'round like an awful disease..."
(The Olympics "Hully Gully")
...to the just plain nonplussing:
"Let's do the Kangaroo -
They're doin' it in Germany..."
(The Majorettes "Let's Do The Kangaroo")
and in "The Handclapping Song" do Josie & The Pussycats
really sing:
"England, Hindustan,
People all over the world are clappin' hands"?
Watson Macblue wrote re:bad rhymes:
> The Sunrays, God help them, in their timeless epic
> "A Little Dog and His Boy"...
Aw!....I LOVE that record!
Artie Wayne wrote:
> Carole King and I were waiting at Nevins-Kirschner
> publishing...she asked me if I wanted to hear what she
> and Gerry Goffin had just written...
WOW! This is the stuff! Great story Artie - your best yet!
Keep 'em coming!
Guy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TweedleeDumsDrive-In/
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:50:24 -0000
From: Alan V. Karr
Subject: Bad Rhymes/B. Shafto
I always was "hooked" by this "bad" rhyme in Roger Miller's
Dang Me. So were all the other buyers of this disc, apparently!
Roses are red
Violets are purple
Sugar is sweet and
so's maple surple.
---------
Bobby Shafto was a pre-Beatles Parlophone artist who
despite some very good discs, such as Over & Over md'd by
John Barry didn't have much success - IMO too much of an
Adam Faith clone in sound AND looks, who already was on the label.
She's My Girl, ostensibly backed by the "Jet Set" is
an excellent disc sounding for all the world like one of
(the late) Adam's updated beat recordings with the Roulettes.
Another Capitol reject turned chart record,
written by Jackie Lee's then-husband Len Beadle &
co-Raindrop Bob Conrad (Peter Callander who later had a hand in
70s hits The Night Chicago Died, Billy Dont Be a Hero,
Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast to name a few)
picked up by Laurie/Rust on the heels of their astute
licensing of Gerry & The Pacemakers. Produced by Ron Richards
and on the recent EMI CD Beat At Abbey Road.
Just 2 more artists Id like to see compiled by the likes of
RPM, Castle, etc.
Regards.
Alan V. Karr
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:46:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Lapka
Subject: Bobby Shafto
Dear Those Answering My Bobby Shafto Query:
Thanks to all for your input on Bobby Shafto. I
definitely remember hearing that song on WABC way back
in I guess 1964 or so. Does anyone have an MP3 of this
song that perhaps could be uploaded here?
Several other singles came out under that name; does
anybody have any further information on this?
Larry Lapka
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:02:27 -0000
From: Declan Meehan
Subject: Re: "Witchi Tai To"
Stephane Rebeschini wrote:
> Inspired by a religious Peyote chant from the Kaw tribe,
> "Witchi Tai To" was recorded by many groups. Here are the
> ones I know...
Also can strongly recommend two gorgeous contemporary versions
by two scottish bands. Firstly a 'home demo' version by BMX
Bandits on the b-side of their 'little hands' single (around
1994?) and another lovely version by Future Pilot AKA a couple
of years ago on there 'tiny waves, mighty sea' LP on the great
Geographic records of Glasgow.
Both versions follow the Harpers Bizzare arrangement but are
beautifully played and sung.
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:13:07 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Rhymin' pearls
Albabe,
> I especially like the Orbison rhymes that you didn't.
> I thought it was sorta clever, in fact.
Hmm.....I guess we'll agree to disagree here. Roy's songwriting
degenerated after 1965, due to a number of factors (divorce,
deaths of family members, switch to a bad record label, stricter
contractual obligations). As a result, he was reusing a lot of
rhymes that weren't very good to begin with: "hurt" and "flirt",
"longer" and "stronger", "time" and "mine", etc.
Furthermore, in "I'll Never Get Over You", it sounds like he just
gave up all creativity and slapped together every simple rhyme he
could come up with in the space of three minutes. Throwing in the
names of every girl from the early rock 'n' roll hits didn't help.
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:13:04 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: Jimmy Cross / When Jackie walks in the room / America v...
You know, I thought about that "Live and Let Die" lyric a lot.
Could it possibly go "But in this ever changing world in which
we're livin''"? (Not that McCartney ever got any points for
honors English!)
Bobster
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:15:34 -0800
From: Alan Gordon
Subject: Clairifyin'
Ian said:
> ... and he slipped up here with the "you get to me in a way
> I can't describe" bit... Get yourself a literate lyricist.
> The words matter. Even if you think they don't, some of us do.
Just to "clairify", I did say, "I'm not pointing fingers at Ian
at all..." There is a huge difference between the people that
have opinions about things, and certain people that feel they NEED
to do something to protect us all from so many indecencies. I never
assumed you were one of those protectors that, for instance, needed
to sue a rock group because their ignorant and somewhat dim son
managed to blow his face off because he was so stoned when listening
to certain music that he thought the devil was telling him to shoot
himself.
Why do the lyrics: "...you get to me in a way I can't describe..."
have to mean something sexual? It seems obvious to me that the writer
is trying to say something about something he can't describe, and he
quite literally says so. My love for my friends is something that is
ineffable to me. Maybe I'm just not a good enough poet, but words don't
adequately describe those feelings for me, not even when uttered by
poets like Carole King, or Jackson Browne, or Shakespeare, or Rainier
Rilke, or Lao Tsu. Those words can be beautiful and wonderful and
very warm... but they don't come close to describing my personal
feelings. However, I think "art" is there to say things that are
virtually impossible to "say" in conversation. I think "Art," whether
music, or painting, or sculpture, or poetry or... is a language that
is here for us to intimate the indescribable. I just haven't heard the
words that perfectly describe Love yet.
To try to describe the things that Gilbert says he can't describe
is amazing irony in my estimation... and not the Alanna type of irony.
peace,
~albabe
PS: The Collector's Choice Christmas CD sets are really cool.
They come in a "wooden" box with a cute little Brass graphic
on the front. They're 2 disc sets with about 25 tracks on each
disc. I have two of the "best ofs..." I'm probably going to get
the Soul Christmas set too since the 2 I have are so cool.
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:35:06 -0000
From: Mike C.
Subject: Re: Aldon Music Staffers 1962
Monophonius wrote:
> It has been said that Aldon Music had eighteen (18) songwriters
> working for them in 1962, all twenty-six years of age or younger.
> I can name most of them, but not all. You know, Goffin, King,
> Greenfield, Sedaka, Keller, Mann, Weil, Kolber, Miller, et al.
> Maybe Artie Wayne could come up with a complete list?
Mikey:
> Don't forget Koppelman and Rubin (3 O'Clock Rock).
Don't forget Charlie Weiss and Art Kaplan. Both wrote several
songs with Carole King. Also Hank Hunter.
Mike C.
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:58:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Snuff Garrett & "Strings"
Mikey, originally:
> .......the biggest selling act on Liberty was The Ventures,
> with over 800 million records sold as of 2002.
later:
> I of course typed too fast and meant *80* million
> records.
Still, 80 million is a whole LOT of records to sell !
Especially for a group who only had 3 top ten hits. I
too remember reading huge sales figures for the
Ventures and I disbelieved them then - so what's the
source for your information? Were they - what's the
phrase - big in Japan??
pb
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Bobby Shafto
Bobby Shafto's "She's My Girl" (no relation to
same-titled songs by the Turtles or the Bobby Fuller
Four) is on EMI's "Beat At Abbey Road 1963-66"
compilation.
Bobby Shafto was also part of a one-off "supergroup"
comprised of British one-hit wonders, including Dickie
Pride, perhaps the most unfortunately named of Larry
Parnes's "stable of stars". The group was called the
Guv'nors and were a half hearted attempt for late '50s
ballad singers to join the Merseybeat craze.
Their recording "Let's Make A Habit Of This" is on
"Beat Beat Beat Vol. 1" and "The Piccadilly Story."
David
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:46:39 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: Da da-da da
> I want to thank my friend Jon Adelson for exposing my ignorance--
> for all the honest world to feel.
>
> OK Adelson--what song are the last 7 words from, huh?
Love that song but don't understand it. Pancho Villa?
Lefty Frizzell? Pancho Sanza? Lefty Gomez? Pancho and Cisco?
Huh?
---Dan
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:48:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss)
Here's another rather violent line from a '60s tune
that no one has mentioned yet. From the Outsiders (the
Cleveland group), their most "garage-y" recording
"What Makes You So Bad (You Weren't Brought Up That
Way)" features the line "What's that you say? Don't
talk to me like that! I'll hit ya in the head. I'm
that kinda cat baby!"
David
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:00:14 -0000
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Jerry Yester
Alan Zweig:
> Jerry Yester on the other hand, was slightly better.
> At least he sounded like a singer, which isn't always
> just about the quality of the voice. He was more comfortable
> with the the job. And though I know he was in later
> incarnations of the Spoonful, I think of him as the guy who
> made the record with Judy Henske on Zappa's label.
> (Or maybe I have that wrong.)
"Farewell Aldebaran", a very good record. Recently played a
bit by Bob Brainen on WFMU, and searchable.
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:00:56 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Joe Brown and the Bruvvers
Joe Brown is simply one of the superstars of the
pre-British Invasion era. He was idolized by George
Harrison who had his picture taken once holding Joe
Brown's Gibson hollowbody electric. I'd never actually
seen the picture until it was shown on one of the
bonus interviews on the "Concert For George" DVD, the
concert which also featured Brown.
I've got two bits of video footage of Joe Brown, one
playing "It Only Took A Minute" on the BBC children's
show "Crackerjack," after which puppet Lenny the Lion
asks him to do "The Lambeth Walk". Joe Brown replies
"Aye? 'At's a bit square, innit?" Cockney caricature
all the way.
On the 1964 NME Pollwinners Concert, he and the
Bruvvers perform three songs including "Henry the
Eighth", "What A Crazy World" from the film of the
same name. And surprisingly enough, they also perform
a song from the opera "Carmen"! His acoustic playing
on this track is phenomenal.
There's a rumor that Joe Brown's crewcut was a primary
inspiration on David Bowie's hairstyle of the late
'60s and '70s. Jimmy Page may have been Britain's ace
session guitar player, but nobody could touch Joe
Brown for rockabilly licks (a close second would be
Big Jim Sullivan).
David
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:36:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Bad rhymes/bad grammar
Mike McKay wrote:
> Other nominations?
And later on as the crowd thinned out
I's just about to do the same
- Bob Dylan of course. Would like to see him try to
thin out all by himself. Maybe he was talkin about
that new diet everybody's doing now.
pb
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:38:46 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Folk-Rock Special
I haven't gotten around to watching all of that PBS
folk-rock special, but I did catch a second or two of
the Seekers doing "I'll Never Find Another You", and
agree they sounded great. And the lead singer (Judith
Durham) still looks pretty much like she did in the
'60s, which is a plus.
It was a surprise seeing Trini Lopez on the bill...
boy has time been rough on him. But he still puts on a
good show. Unfortunately, I can't think of Trini
without picturing him "doing the Freddie" on
Hullaballoo ca. 1965...
David
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 03:26:33 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: "Without you I'd be a little lost lamb..."
C Ponti:
> Trying to find out the title of this old soul song I loved
> from early 60s.. We in NY often could pick up a soul station
> from far away. This song had a chorus lyric of "and I'm never
> gonna leave you, never gonna leave you..."
This Gentile/Lambert song ("Never, Never Leave Me") is one of
Mary Wells' many delectable post-Motown recordings, and a favourite
of mine. I think it's available on CD, The Ultimate Collection:
http://tinyurl.com/2fsyz
I've played a clip of it to musica to whet your appetite.
By the way, although it doesn't have to rhyme with anything,
the line is "without you I'd be a little lost sheep" - presumably
it sings better?
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:27:01 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: The Hollies - Long Road Home
> Has anyone got The Hollies new 6 cd box set "The
> Long Road Home"?
> How is it? Is it worth the close to $100 price tag?
I've been wondering about this as well, considering
I've looked at the track list and it appears that the
original versions of several of the Hollies great hits
were left off the set in deference to '70s/'80s live
versions of the songs on the later discs.
I'm sure it's a nicely put together set, but I'm very
disappointed it will do nothing to replace the Hollies
collection I've amassed so far, including the "30th
Anniversary Collection", a Sundazed reissue of "King
Midas In Reverse", and a couple of the EMI 100th
Anniversary reissues.
If they had at least left on those hits they dropped,
it might have been worth more for me to get it. It's
certainly not as definitive as something like "Zombies
Heaven", for which a similar Hollies collection would
probably have 10 or 12 discs rather than six.
David
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:34:08 -0500
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: Re: The 1958 murder of John Dolphin
> Apologies all around if this has already been answered:
> John Dolphin owned Dolphin's of Hollywood, a record
> store on Central at Vernon Avenue down in the black
> section of L.A. He was also the owner of a small label,
> Dolphin Records, among others.
Is this the same label that became Dolton records, or is it
the reason that label changed its name?
Joe Nelson
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:07:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Bad Lines
To me, nothing will ever, ever, ever beat:
"And men keep right on marchin' off to war,
Electrically they keep a baseball score..."
from "The Beat Goes On" by Sonny & Cher
David
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:44:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Bad Rhymes
Bernie Taupin once wrote, "I've made some bad rhymes"
and he was right! Got better once he ditched Reginald.
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