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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Bobby Vee
From: James Botticelli
2. Soma and the Gestures
From: Dan Hughes
3. Re: Manhattans - Kiss And Say Goodbye
From: Joe Nelson
4. Re: Michael Brown / The Cherry People
From: Scott
5. Jerry Fuller/Gary Puckett soundalikes
From: Mark T
6. Lafayettes
From: Mike Dugo
7. Sixties geniuses
From: Paul Bryant
8. Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
From: Mike McKay
9. Re: Various
From: Austin Roberts
10. Re: Japan and soft rock
From: Guy Lawrence
11. Joyce
From: Albabe Gordon
12. Re: Bobby Vee
From: Bob
13. Re: Jerry Fuller
From: steveo
14. Re: Soma and the Gestures
From: Bob
15. Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
From: JJ
16. Sixties geniuses
From: Steve Harvey
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:33:28 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: Bobby Vee
Austin Roberts wrote:
> I loved Suzy Baby by Bobby Vee,which was a local hit where
> he lived and then (somebody help me here), I think, was
> rereleased and went to the mid charts.
"A young fella from Fargo North Dakota, who's main musical
ambition seemed to be, it seems to me, was to be Buddy Holly 2."
That was a talk-up to the post I did back in the day to "Someday",
the flip side of "Walkin' With My Angel". I still have the tape.
JB
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:17:40 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Soma and the Gestures
Bob, thanks for bringing up Soma (Bobby Vee's first label).
Seems I heard it was named for founder Amos (Garrett) spelled
backwards, then I heard that was wrong; that it was an acronym
for Sounds of Mid-America or some such. Do you know?
And are you east-coasters familiar with this Minneapolis label?
I think the ever-so-smooth soft-rock Gestures (one minor hit,
Run Run Run) would have been huge and self-sustaining had they
been from one of the coasts rather than from the frozen midwest.
(Yeah, you can cite Dylan, but he wasn't big until he moved to NYC).
Their leader, Dale Menten, later appeared as leader of the
Blackwood Apology, with an album on Fontana (or another Merc
Subsid) which did nothing. Then in the late 70's or so Menten
did a really nice solo album on Decca; perhaps by then he had
moved to one of the coasts? Did any of you guys work with him?
---Dan
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:18:12 -0500
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: Re: Manhattans - Kiss And Say Goodbye
Phil Milstein says:
> I imagine it won't be for many more years still until I'm able to
> listen to "Kiss And Say Goodbye" with anything near objectivity."
Tony Bayliss:
> Whilst not exactly overenamoured of the song myself, I do find that
> it is far more palatable when one listens to the X-Rated Version.
> This has a far longer spoken intro, and alters the meaning of the
> song considerably. It starts off with the 'lady' being called 'the
> Baddest Bitch' he's ever known, and accuses her of beating him up
> for the two years they have been sleeping together .. in fact he has
> been at the hospital so much the staff know him very well.
> I don't know if it was released as a regular single, but it does
> exist as a DJ copy .. Columbia AS 263 (ZSP 162527), is in Mono and
> the lable copy does state 'Warning. Not Recommended For Airplay'.
> Of course, with the junk played today, I guess this is quite tame,
> but in 1976 I believe it safe to say a few eyebrows would have been
> raised ... The B side is also Rated X - I Kinda Missed You.
Anybody who wants an MP3 on the X-rated version, e-mail me offlist.
Joe Nelson
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:26:00 EST
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Michael Brown / The Cherry People
Austin Roberts writes:
> remember the Hangmen. Also a group that played the Bayou
> thru the 60's.
Geez, the late Bayou ... what a great club down in Georgetown
near the water ...
Gone and is now part of an office building or condo development.
Scott
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:47:16 -0000
From: Mark T
Subject: Jerry Fuller/Gary Puckett soundalikes
Apparently when Jerry found something that worked, he stuck
with it. I have records he produced on Columbia by himself,
Jimmy Walker and Jack Bedient and the Chessman that all have
that great Gary Puckett sound to them. He then went over to
Bell and produced a few more for Jerry Tawney as well as for
himself. To continue the link, Jerry Tawney produced a record
on Capitol for Michael Brennan which is also a great Union Gap
sounding record. Now I wonder who this Michael Brennan was and
if he continued the string.
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:05 -0600
From: Mike Dugo
Subject: Lafayettes
Sorry, Austin - I don't have any info on The Lafayettes.
If anybody on the list can chime in - please do!
Mike
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:00:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Sixties geniuses
Richard Williams wrote:
> I second Paul Bryant's defence of Bob Dylan's performances
> of his own songs without reservation, but I question his
> selection of Lennon, McCartney, Dylan and Wilson as the
> four geniuses of Sixties music. Was there no black writer
> or performer fit to be considered their equal? Not Smokey
> Robinson, Curtis Mayfield or James Brown? If you listen to
> the music that's around today, Brown had as much influence
> as anyone, with the possible exception of Dylan. And
> personally, much as I loved the Beatles, I'd put Holland-
> Dozier-Holland up there with Lennon and McCartney.
If we're talking about "most influential people" then
immediately James Brown and Lou Reed must be added and
probably Brian Wilson removed (can't think of many
people who aspired to be like him or the Beach Boys,
with the notable exception of the barking mad High
Llamas). But my list is of 24 carat genius, and
wonderful though H-D-H were, they were stuck on one
level forever. No equivalent of Strawberry Fields,
Blackbird, Cabinessence or Idiot Wind from them, as
far as I have heard.
pb
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:58:50 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Does anybody know the name of the group in DC that played as
> house band at the Bayou (and I think may have owned the club
> with their manager?
Hi Austin! We're honored to have you here. I can't answer your
question, but I'm betting the answer can be found in a book
entitled "Capitol Rock" by Mark Opsasnick.
Regrettably, I don't own it, but a friend of mine lent me the
first edition some time ago, and it is surely the most thorough
examination of any local rock/soul/country scene in existence.
Virtually every band from the Washington, D.C./Baltimore area
who played locally from 1951 through 1976, and virtually every
club they could have played in, can be found in its pages.
I have no connection to that area whatsoever and was familiar
with only a few of the bands or artists mentioned, but I still
found it a fascinating read. Along with the many who never made
it past local status, there are great stories of the early days
of those who did (Link Wray, The Showmen, Roy Clark, Nils Lofgren,
etc.).
You can order the revised edition of "Capitol Rock" or contact
the author here: http://www.capitolrock.com/
A propros of the discussion that spawned this query, I recall
from reading the book that the Cherry People album was one of
those that was completely dominated by its producer. Cherry People
were in fact a very hard-rockin' punk aggregation, probably second
in popularity only to The Hangmen in D.C. But the album's producer
used studio musicians and made them do lightweight pop along the
lines of "And Suddenly." They were quite disgusted with the whole
thing and disavowed it.
And one more note...The Hangmen's "What a Girl Can't Do" is among
my all-time favorite 60s punk numbers. However, the band that
actually recorded the original single on Monument was The Reekers,
only one or two of whom carried over to The Hangmen -- who formed
from the ashes of that band and, as noted, became huge on the local
scene (someone I know who grew up in D.C. at the time said they were
"our Beatles"). When the band did their lone album, "Bitter Sweet",
they re-recorded "What a Girl Can't Do" with their present personnel,
and it was a pale imitation of the original single.
Mike McKay
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:51:20 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Various
Re: Bobby Vee
Bob,
It amazes me that there are folks like you out there that
know so many things about record and artists etc., especially
things like Suzy Baby and records I've always loved but wanted
to know more about.
I really appreciate it and am really excited about spectropop.
Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
Thanks Jeff,
I believe that And Suddenly was the connection that was confusing me.
Re: Michael Brown / The Cherry People
Thanks JJ, That is the link. I feel better.
Thanks again,
Austin
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:33:13 -0000
From: Guy Lawrence
Subject: Re: Japan and soft rock
Mark T wrote:
> Just curious but does anyone know how and why the Japanese
> are so much more into this genre than we are? Its frustrating
> because they put out great books and magazines and they are
> really the best for info on this kind of music but unfortunately
> it's all in Japanese.
Well, the way I see it the Japanese invented the genre - that
is they lumped a load of music together and gave it a name.
Although most 60's music fans in the West were hip to a lot
of this stuff already the Japanese, sorting through the fruits
of their frequent vinyl raids on the US, highlighted a lot of
great things that we were missing. This, I think, was due to
their taking records much more at face value, judging them by
how they sounded rather than how rock "wisdom" said they should.
That is why Japanese soft rock compilations are such a treat -
containing pop bands, easy listening groups, folkies, surfers,
harmony acts and all kinds of things we in the West hadn't
thought of lumping in with the more regular Association/Turtles
type sound.
Mark:
> I just wish there was somewhere one could go for information
> on this genre that was in English.
Well, I suppose we're all guilty for that. I've often thought
about an online index of soft rock albums as a way to start.
One problem is the sheer volume of the soft stuff that's out
there. It seems to be one of those genres (like, say, girl-
group or northern soul) that one could go on buying forever.
Regards,
Guy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TweedleeDumsDrive-In/
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:27:04 -0800
From: Albabe Gordon
Subject: Joyce
Mark... actually, from what I've read, Joyce was very musical. This
(below) site is mostly conjecture, but still very interesting:
http://www.james-joyce-music.com/
I still think Molly's stream of consciousness in the last chapter of
Ulysses would be a bit difficult to boogie to... maybe a free form
jazz thing would work though...
peace,
~albabe
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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 13:27:30 -0000
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Bobby Vee
Austin Roberts wrote:
> I loved Suzy Baby by Bobby Vee,which was a local hit where
> he lived and then (somebody help me here), I think, was
> rereleased and went to the mid charts.
James Botticelli:
> "A young fella from Fargo North Dakota, who's main musical
> ambition seemed to be, it seems to me, was to be Buddy Holly 2."
> That was a talk-up to the post I did back in the day to "Someday",
> the flip side of "Walkin' With My Angel". I still have the tape.
JB,
It's always been a well known fact that Bobby Vee's group,
The Shadows, filled in the show at the Moorhead Armory when
Holly's plane went down. Tommy Allsup was on that tour backing
Holly, and eventually played lead guitar on all of Vee's early
recordings. Snuff Garrett, a good friend of Holly's, was Vee's
producer. These are just a few of the tie-ins that have given
rise to the myth that Vee was trying to copy Holly.
There is no doubt that Bobby Vee had a timbre in his voice that
reminded people of Holly , but Bobby will tell you that it was
not his intention to copy him, but was a big fan of Holly, and
influenced by him. Actually in the beginning, it was Snuff Garrett
that was taking Vee where he thought Holly was going as an artist
before his untimely death. He even states that in one of three
interviews I have done with him over the years. He heard Buddy
in "Suzie Baby" and wanted to sign Vee right away, but if you
listen to Vee's records from late 61 on there was very little
hint of Holly there. He was developing his own sound.
He did record a couple of tribute albums basically because both
he and Snuff Garrett were big Holly and the Crickets fans, not
because they were going to sell a lot of records. "Someday" was
an idea Snuff had to write a reply to "That'll Be The Day". It's
a very good record and features Earl Palmer and Jerry Allison on
drums. It was pulled from the Bobby Vee Meets The Crickets album.
It was the flip side of "Punish Her" which had no Holly influence
at all! "Walkin' With My Angel" was the flip side of "Run To Him".
Bobby was and will always be a big fan of Buddy Holly and the
Crickets. I was lucky enough to be present at the session for the
"Buddy Holly Medley" by Bobby and the Crickets in April of 1989.
The mutual respect shown by all parties was very apparent. There
will always be a tie-in with Bobby Vee and Buddy Holly, but for
all the right reasons.
Bob
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 07:37:06 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: Jerry Fuller
steveo writes:
> Met Jerry Fuller in his office in Hollywood years ago. He
> was a wonderful person to talk to, very personable. Besides,
> he said I sang good! lol
Austin:
> Hey Steveo,
> If Jerry said you could sing then you probably can. Jerry
> really is a great,unassuming guy. The thing that killed me
> about him is that he made a great Beatles soundalike with
> The Knickerbockers...........
Austin,
Thanks for the post about Jerry Fuller. I do remember "Lies"
and the Knickerbockers,as I was in Hollywood at that time.
I spoke with the Knicks at Disneyland..Buddy and Jimmy Walker
(he was an amazing drummer). They often played at a night club
not far from Vine St. on the north side of Sunset Blvd. that
was later called "Soul'd Out" (can't remember the original name)
Best to you,
Steveo
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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:17:08 -0000
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Soma and the Gestures
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Bob, thanks for bringing up Soma (Bobby Vee's first label).
> Seems I heard it was named for founder Amos (Garrett) spelled
> backwards, then I heard that was wrong; that it was an acronym
> for Sounds of Mid-America or some such. Do you know?
Dan,
You heard right. Soma was Amos spelled backwards but his last
name was not Garrett it was Heilacher. The spelling is probably
wrong, but I believe he is the guy that started the music chain
Musicland.
Bob
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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 17:37:17 -0000
From: JJ
Subject: Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
Mike McKay:
> And one more note...The Hangmen's "What a Girl Can't Do" is among
> my all-time favorite 60s punk numbers. However, the band that
> actually recorded the original single on Monument was The Reekers,
> only one or two of whom carried over to The Hangmen -- who formed
> from the ashes of that band and, as noted, became huge on the local
> scene (someone I know who grew up in D.C. at the time said they were
> "our Beatles"). When the band did their lone album, "Bitter Sweet",
> they re-recorded "What a Girl Can't Do" with their present personnel,
> and it was a pale imitation of the original single.
Agree TOTALLY, regarding the diff between the FAB orig 45
version of "What a girl..", compared to the LAME LP ditto!
Didn't know it was another line up, i.e. group(!) who recorded
the 45 version...
JJ/Sweden
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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:04:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Sixties geniuses
Paul Bryant:
> If we're talking about "most influential people" then
> immediately James Brown and Lou Reed must be added and
> probably Brian Wilson removed (can't think of many people
> who aspired to be like him or the Beach Boys, with the
> notable exception of the barking mad High Llamas).
I seem to recall that Sir Paul "aspired" to be like Brian
upon hearing "Pet Sounds". The result was that ditty called
"Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". It may be hard to
follow in Brian's footsteps due to most people being unable
to do the harmonic blend of the Brothers Wilson and Brian's
knack for pulling melodies out of thin air the way most folk
scratch their heads. Definately a prime influence even on
people like Clapton and Hendrix. The new book "Wouldn't It Be
Nice" is the second (following Kingsley's) to deal with "Pet
Sounds". It also contains a quote from Clapton on its influence
on him. Something I would have thought Mr. "God of the Blues"
would never acknowledge. How many LPs have had one, let alone
two, books written about them?
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