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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Poor quality pressings
From: Billy G. Spradlin
2. Dennis Wilson LP title
From: Poul Nielsen
3. Re: Grass Roots
From: Glenn
4. Bobby Vee "Beautiful People"
From: Bob Celli
5. Re. William Shatner
From: Guy Lawrence
6. Re: Bi question
From: Glenn
7. Re: Medicine Man / Buchanan bros
From: Austin Roberts
8. Re: Speaking of the Knickerbockers and the Righteous Bros...
From: Austin Roberts
9. Re: Lambert-Potter productions / Magpie Stump?? / Arkade
From: Austin Roberts
10. Re: The Buchanan Bros / Medicine Man
From: Austin Roberts
11. Re: The Transformed Shatner
From: Roger Smith
12. Jack Nitzsche at Spectropop update.
From: Martin Roberts
13. Alien Encounters
From: Chris
14. Re: William Shatner
From: Rodney Rawlings
15. Pre-Band, wherefore Superman?; stereo Smash (and Merc and Philips); running a'Fowley
From: Country Paul
16. Re: Adam & Eve
From: Austin Roberts
17. Words & Melodies, Melodies & Words
From: Chris
18. Re: Answer Songs
From: Fred Clemens
19. Re: Speaking Of Apple Records...
From: Mark Frumento
20. Re: Answer Songs
From: Steve Harvey
21. Re: Badfinger and a pino colada, my friend
From: Mark Frumento
22. How Sweet It Is
From: Bob Rashkow
23. Re: Happy Christmas was a race horse
From: Steve Harvey
24. Left Banke's '70s LP
From: Mark
25. Goodbye My Love
From: Michael Edwards
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:31:18 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: Poor quality pressings
I worked at several small town AM stations were the records were in
really bad shape, cue burns (scratches at the beginning of the song)
fingerprints from slip cueing, scruffs. But we played them any way
because the station didnt have the cash to replace them. Most of
those old station turntables had heavy tone arms that would track
through anything. And with AM's limited mono fidelity you couldnt
hear the scratches.
By the early 80's most music stations had moved to FM and had would
record a new 45 onto cart (a tape cartridge that resembled an 8-track
but played at a faster speed for higher fidelity) to play on the air.
The worst company pressings from the 60's I have encountered are
Mercury/Smash/Philips 45's - they are pressed on really cheap styrene
and its hard to find a rare pressing in good shape. Now and then I
have lucked out and found a mid 60's vinyl pressing on Mercury but
they are very rare.
Another bad one is Bell/Amy/Mala with those painted on (not paper)
labels. If a record was played many times on a changer the label
would wear right off.
I think the worst 45 pressing I ever bought in the 1970's was
Queen's "Somebody to Love" on Elektra. It was mastered at a low
volume because it was a long song, and pressed on cheap styrene.
Played on a cheap turntable the scratches would eventully overwhelm
the music.
Billy
http://listen.to/jangleradio
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 23:38:05 +0100
From: Poul Nielsen
Subject: Dennis Wilson LP title
John wrote:
> Does anyone know why The Searchers' 1965 hit "Goodbye My Love"
> was bizarrely retitled "Goodbye My Lover Goodbye" for the American
> market? Are there any other examples of song titles being changed
> for no apparent reason?
Hi there,
I live in Denmark and am relatively new to this community. I remember
having read that Dennis Wilson’s Pacific Ocean Blue LP originally was
titled Pacific Ocean Blues with the album title being changed for no
apparent reason just before the cover was printed. Can anybody confirm
this?
Poul
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:28:48 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Grass Roots
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Glenn, I enjoyed your Grass Roots site and I have a couple
> of questions:
>
> 1. I saw the Grass Roots on the Lloyd Thaxton show (kind of
> a west coast American Bandstand) when they were just starting,
> and they performed Ballad of a Thin Man (which they called Mr.
> Jones, I believe). I can't remember if they they also did Where
> Were You When I Needed You. I don't think they did--I think they
> had just released Mr. Jones. Do you have any record of this
> appearance, and if Sloan and Barri were a part of that in-person
> performance?
>
> 2. Sloan's voice is on the first album, but it was replaced for
> the Where Were You single? I can't tell any difference, I don't
> think. Can you?
Dan, as far as 1):
First, here's a list of Grass Roots TV appearances:
http://tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-110656/
It is by no means comprehensive, since I know of appearances by them
on many other shows, such as "Rollin' On the River", "Playboy After
Dark", "In Concert", "Solid Gold", the Wolfman Jack oldies show on
TNN, and even "Good Morning America" (1983), where they sang a song
for a projected second album on MCA that was never released!
As for the Lloyd Thaxton show, it was not Sloan and Barri. Altho I
have never personally spoken with P.F. Sloan, I did chat with him on
AOL once, and he said that he and Steve never appeared as the Grass
Roots. So it was probably the Bedouins, who had just taken on the
Grass Roots name. There is no question on the timing of that- that
the Bedouins were signed under the name "The Grass Roots" shortly
before "Mr. Jones" was released as the first official Grass Roots
single.
As far as 2):
My site claims to have a definitive version of the history of the
vocals on WWYWINY. But that will have to be changed. Everyone seems
to have a different version of the vocal presence(s) on this song and
its different appearances, including Sloan himself, who says it is
NOT his voice on the single. He claims it is Bill Fulton. Steve Barri
has said that it IS Sloan. Joel Larson, the drummer of the Bedouins
at the time, who later became a bona fide member (for the second time)
of the Grass Roots with Rob Grill et al, says he was at the session
where Bill Fulton's voice was dubbed over the already recorded
version with Sloan's voice on it. Personally I can't hear any
difference between the LP and single versions. On CD, the Grass
Roots' Millenium Collection and Rhino's Anthology credit the versions
on those CDs as by P.F. Sloan, and the Grass Roots All Time Greatest
Hits CD credits its version as the Bill Fulton vocal. They sound
identical to me.
The only guarantee I can give you is that Sloan has never wavered on
his claim that Bill Fulton's voice is on the single.
I can also guarantee you that a version of WWYWINY with Sloan's voice
on it was released only to radio stations in L.A., before the
Bedouins ever came into the picture. If anyone can locate that
extremely rare promo-only single, we might be able to answer this
question for good.
As far as the real answer to your question, it may be answered
someday, but it won't be by me today.
Glenn
Golden Grass - The Grass Roots Fan Page
http://home.att.net/~souldeep69/index.html
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:10:05 -0000
From: Bob Celli
Subject: Bobby Vee "Beautiful People"
Austin Roberts:
> Just to keep this string going, I was in a group called the
> Arkade on Dunhill and we released Carole King's "Where You Lead"
> at the same time you guys did; I think we helped cancel each other
> out. Bummer. I think I'm right about that.
Clark Besch:
> How interesting that we have the two of you that had dueling 45s!
> Both coming off moderate hits at about the same time! Reminds me
> of many double releases that WERE hits still - Bobby Vee and
> composer Kenny O'Dell's "Beautiful People" is one I always felt
> would have been top 10, had only one of these two top 40 hits been
> released.
Clark,
I did an interview with Bobby Vee's producer at that time, Dallas
Smith, and he told me that "Beautiful People" sold 750,000, so your
statement couldn't be truer!
Bob Celli
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:28:33 -0000
From: Guy Lawrence
Subject: Re. William Shatner
"platch1" wrote:
> My father, Don Ralke, was the arranger/conductor of
> "The Transformed Man". The album was recorded in all
> seriousness. The musical arrangements are lush and could
> stand alone.
Wow. I was just about to put finger to keyboard to add to
the Shatner thread when this message appeared. I was about
to point out the very same thing - sure, Captain Kirk hamming
it up is hilarious but listen to that gorgeous arrangement of
"Tambourine Man" (especially the wonderful banjo part) and
you'll here a thing of great beauty. When the album got reissued
by Revola in the Nineties this track would often be dug out to
raise a few laughs but I was always struck by that heavenly
arrangement and it's remained a favourite of mine since.
I didn't know until now that it was the work of Don Ralke
but that would explain a lot - his production and arrangement
work with the Sunrays turned out some absolutely gorgeous
records and his many other triumphs have been discussed
here before.
Guy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TweedleeDumsDrive-In/
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:24:09 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Bi question
I wrote:
> a lot of people don't realize that the mystery of the gender of
> the song's subject finally IS answered in the song:
> "Well I'm not the world's most masculine man
> But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
> And so is Lola...
Rat Pfink:
> Nope, the question of gender isn't answered at all. Ray Davies'
> lyrics are ambiguous enough that "And so is Lola" can be
> interpreted either as 1) Lola is also a man -or- 2) Lola is
> also glad he's a man.
I both saw the second interpretation and anticipated a disputing
answer, and I have to say that to some degree I agree with you.
Yet, when you HEAR Davies sing the line, and realize it is his final
word on the subject - it is the very last line in a song about gender
confusion about Lola, it FEELS to me that he is making a final
declaration about the true sex of the subject. Sometimes the way a
line is sung says more about its content than the words alone.
I can see your point of view, yet I will stick with my gut feeling
that Davies is saying that Lola IS a man.
But he is a very clever songwriter, and there's a high probability
that the ambiguity was on purpose. He's also a good singer, and
there's a good chance that the way the final three words sound
"slipped in" is indicative of someone trying to "get away" with
something naughty on the radio. A kind of "wink wink" to the
listeners. Many of whom don't seem to even catch the first two of
those last three words anyway.
Phil Milstein wrote:
> I think The Sweet's "AC/DC" fits the bill.
Good one! A great Chinnichap song, also fairly controversial - and
even innovative - for its time, and one of many strong arguments
against Mike Chapman's obnoxious assertions that Nicky Chinn was a
bad lyricist. If you haven't read any interviews with Chapman since
he and Chinn split up, do yourself a favor and DON'T. Especially if
you're a Chinn & Chapman fan, which I happen to be.
Glenn
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:14:58 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Medicine Man / Buchanan bros
Bobster,
I hope you saw the email I wrote about taking Gene Pistilli's place
as lead singer of the Buchannan Bros. Gene Pistilli did the great
lead on Medicine Man then left the group and they asked me to take
his place. Sorry for the confusion.
Austin
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 16:09:35 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Speaking of the Knickerbockers and the Righteous Bros...
Was it Grapefruit that did Maybe Tomorrow?
Austin R.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:44:47 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Lambert-Potter productions / Magpie Stump?? / Arkade
I honestly don't know about Magpie Stump. I do know that they
used our Arkade version of The Morning Of Our Lives for several
years as the Bridal Fair theme.
Best, Austin Roberts
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:38:06 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: The Buchanan Bros / Medicine Man
Clark,
Sorry to mislead anyone. I had originally answered someone that
I took Gene Pistilli's place after he left the Buchannan Bros.
Then someone asked some of the other Ghost voices I did and the
Buchannan Bros. was one of them. Gene, who is still a good friend,
sang lead on Medicine Man. Sorry for the mix up.
Austin
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 15:35:46 -0500
From: Roger Smith
Subject: Re: The Transformed Shatner
William Shatner:
> "When a cut is played without any context you'll be puzzled by
> what I'm doing, but my hope is that you'll know what I'm doing
> if you listen to the whole record" (c.1998).
> Ah! That decides it then. Thanks.
> I guess to be fair to Mr. Shatner, I would have to listen to the
> whole album to get the context. But it is hard to imagine what
> context would make the two cuts I heard sound anything but
> ludicrous!
Someone once said that you don't have to eat an entire egg to know
it's rotten.
If Shatner admitted the album was a joke, it wouldn't be quite as
funny. So whether or not he was serious when recording it, I think
it's best that he continues to defend it!
-- Roger
http://www.harrynilsson.com/
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:07:29 -0000
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: Jack Nitzsche at Spectropop update.
The Cooperstown Volunteer Band are blasting away as
the Record Of The Week on the home page:
http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/index.htm
The battle for the next ROTW is between two previous
winners' b-sides. The vocalists are Dick Lory or
Billy Daniels.
The Discography page has been updated:
http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/discography.htm
Jingle #10, Folk-Rock, is playing On The Radio:
http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/radio.htm
Thanks for the responses to the site's questionnaire.
To show I do read the comments, a menu has been added
at the top of most pages.
Martin
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:24:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: Chris
Subject: Alien Encounters
Rodney Rawlings:
> "Send in the Clowns" was of course by Stephen Sondheim,
> who in my view is not a good melodist.
"De gustibus non disputandum est", as we used to say during
recess in third grade.
But have you listened to the Pet Shop Boys/Liza Minnelli
version of Sondheim's "Losing My Mind"? A good version of
a good -- and melodic -- song.
Chris
"Nihil Spectropop Mihi Alienum Est"
P.S. For the record, I'll also point to the title song of
"Anyone Can Whistle" and "One More Kiss" from "Follies" as
examples of Sondheim The Melodist.
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 23:02:58 -0000
From: Rodney Rawlings
Subject: Re: William Shatner
I did notice that the two cuts I heard were nicely arranged.
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:07:03 -0500
From: Country Paul
Subject: Pre-Band, wherefore Superman?; stereo Smash (and Merc and Philips); running a'Fowley
Stephane Rebeschini:
> Hi - The first single of "The Band" was released by
> "Robertson/Danko/Manuel/Hudson/Helm", this was before
> "The Band" became the group's name. "Music From Big Pink"
> was the name of their first LP. You can find everything
> you need to know (and much more!) about the Band there:
> http://theband.hiof.no/singles/index.html#the_band_1968-1978
Ah, Stephane - this is why it takes so long to catch up with S'pop -
prolific writing and incredible websites! One of my favorite 45's is Ronnie
Hawkins and the Band's "Bo Diddley"/"Who Do You Love" (1963) which sounds
like it would have been recorded several years later. There's also a really
cool track, "Come Love", on the Ronnie Hawkins album with the above two
tracks, featuring Robbie Robertson doing some blues-rock guitar playing just
on the edge of feedback that was also years "ahead of schedule". And then
there's Levon & The Hawks' "He Don't Love You", a superb record which
presages the Band's later rock style. But all these other tracks - it'll be
a nice hour of listening! THANK YOU!
Mark T:
> Two compilations of White Whale rarities and why does neither
> one have the single by Christmas Spirit which is The Turtles
> and a young Linda Ronstadt? That's maybe the priciest and
> rarest 45 in the catalogue.
But does any of them have the Clique's "Superman"
Billy G. Spradlin:
> Then on LP, you had the reverse of this phenomenon -- at least
> with The Left Banke and some other Mercury/Smash acts. I have
> a copy of the "Walk Away Renée/Pretty Ballerina" album that
> says mono on the label and the jacket but that in fact plays
> stereo. I'm not sure if this album was ever actually issued in
> mono or not, and it's my understanding that this was the case
> with several other releases at this time when "playable on mono
> phonographs" stereo LPs first came out.
In the mid 60s, the Mercury-Smash-Philips labels did this for probably a
couple of years. I was doing country radio at the time and all the promo
LP's they shipped were stereo, no matter what the sleeve said.
Phil Milstein's review of the new Kim Fowley comp,
http://www.spectropop.com/recommends/index2004.htm#KimFowley,
makes me want to run right out and order it! Good writing, Phil. Looking
over the "S'pop Recommends" pages, it's interesting how many CDs and books
this group has steered me to. Compliments to all.
Whew! Made it up to 2004 - we've certainly become a prolific cohort, haven't
we?!?
"Talk, talk",
Country Paul
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:24:16 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Adam & Eve
Buzz Cason is one of my closest friends (in Nashville), so
tell me what you want to know and I'll ask him for you.
Austin Roberts
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:42:14 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: Chris
Subject: Words & Melodies, Melodies & Words
Steve Harvey wrote:
> Lyrics are icing on the cake (the melody). How many people have
> bought a song because it had great lyrics, but a lousy tune. You're
> more likely to hear somebody humming a melody than quoting a lyric.
> Don't get me wrong, great lyrics can lift a great melody to even
> greater height, but can the reverse be said to be true?
Well, we won't talk about Bob Dylan, will we? But I do think
that there's a case for describing Leiber & Stoller (whom I revere)
as being better at lyrics than the creation of melodies.
One other, stodgier example of a song whose chief virtue is its
lyrics: "It's The Talk of the Town" by Marty Symes, Al J. Neiburg,
and Jerry Livingston.
Chris
(who just acquired a song, "My Other Me," because of its
words by E.Y. Harburg)
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:00:59 -0000
From: Fred Clemens
Subject: Re: Answer Songs
Phil Hall wrote:
> One of my favorite musical subjects is answer songs.
There was a 1997 CD called THOSE DOO WOPP ANSWER SONGS on
Silly Records CD SR 8011.
Some oddball ones NOT included:
"Knock Down The Door" the Takeoffs (Ford)
...to Jay and the Americans "Let's Lock The Door"
"Stop It Little Girl" the Octobers (Chairman)
...to the Shirelles "Foolish Little Girl"
"Tell Tommy I Miss Him" Marilyn Michaels (RCA Victor)
...to Ray Peterson's "Tell Laura I Love Her"
Fred Clemens
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:01:35 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Apple Records...
David Coyle wrote:
> I just got the new RPM disc "94 Baker St.: The
> Pop-Psych Era Of Apple Records 1967-69" and it's
> really good.
David - I couldn't agree more. The CD shows just how diverse the
Apple organization was. And to me the McCartney produced Grapefruit
sounds better than the heavily orchestrated Terry Melcher
recordings. I aslo agree that the Iveys tracks are worth the price
alone. Amazing that some of this stuff hadn't leaked out before
(aside from those that got official release).
Where did you hear about the licensing issues with the Misunderstood
tracks? My CD has those tracks and I assumed that the faulty copies
were a problem at the plant or a bad index on the CD.
Though it's old news to some "Those Were the Days" by Stefan
Granados (who also compiled the CD) is a great book about Apple.
It's one of my favorite music books in recent mememory. Wonderful
insite into the Beatles organization without getting too carried
away with the Beatles as a topic... and fortunately without the
distorted view of the Beatles themselves.
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:02:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Answer Songs
How about the lofty, delicate "Suzanne" by Leonard
Cohen followed by the sleezeball stalker (Randy
Newman) calls up "Sue" after reading what Leonard
had written "in a telephone booth"?
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:16:25 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Re: Badfinger and a pino colada, my friend
Country Paul wrote:
> And, to Mark Frumento, Badfinger *did* sell a bunch
> of records. I'm not familiar with the Rockin' Horse LP you cite,
> but I remember Sleepy Hollow and Stackridge as being like third-
> and second-rate Beatles derivatives, respectively. However, it's
> been since their release that I've heard them; time could make
> my opinions kinder. Is there space on musica to which you could
> post a favorite Stackridge track?
Paul, you really must warn me when I get named in one of your
messages. I also missed it!! ;>))
Don't think I ever disputed that Badfinger sold records... probably
got the wrong Mark. There's a lot of us around here these days. I
did dispute that Pete Ham sounds like McCartney.
Sleepy Hollow is second rate Beatles, but that's a good thing. Most
bands aren't 5th rate Beatles. Stackridge really has very little to
do with the Beatles. James Warren is clearly fixated on the band and
has been to a degree influenced by them. Other than that they shared
George Martin as producer on one LP. I brought Stackridge up with
regard to the original question of early 60s sound revival.
If/when there's room I'll post a track from 'Man in the Bowler Hat'
which sadly is out of print now.
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:56:55 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: How Sweet It Is
WLS Clark:
>if you see the movie, the lyrics work better in your mind also.
I didn't even have to see the movie. I was 12 when Picardy's
breathtaking version debuted on WCFL and just as quickly vanished
from the airwaves. The record flew me away on a rainbow of love.
Many years later, I saw the movie. Except for a couple of scenes,
I found it rather silly......but you're right, Clark, about the
title theme, it's terrific. I never knew "Picardy" also recorded
this, but I own the Dunhill single now and would like to get the
one other 45 these people did, 05 :30 Plane. Also a Webb song?
Bobster
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas was a race horse
As Mr. Spector once remarked to John Lennon, Happy Xmas bears
more than a little resemblance to I Love How You Love Me.
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:38:05 GMT
From: Mark
Subject: Left Banke's '70s LP
Hey Guys!
The album with "Queen of Paradise" is entitled "Strangers on
a Train", and it came out on the Relix label. I think I played
it once, and probably should play it again! (I also have the
Camerica single).
I have to dig out the LP (most of my records are scattered
around the house), so I can't post a track list at present.
Best,
Mark
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:52:20 -0000
From: Michael Edwards
Subject: Goodbye My Love
John Love asks:
>Does anyone know why The Searchers' 1965 hit "Goodbye My Love"
>was bizarrely retitled "Goodbye My Lover Goodbye" for the American
>market? Are there any other examples of song titles being changed
>for no apparent reason?
It may have been because it was an American song (originally recorded
by Jimmy Hughes on Fame in 1964). One of the song's composers, Robert
Mosely, also penned "Sha La La" for the Shirelles and Manfred Mann.
And talking of the Manfreds and changing song titles, they added an
extra "Diddy" to "Do Wah Diddy" by the Exciters to create "Do Wah
Diddy Diddy"
Mike
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