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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 26 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Answer Songs
From: Paul Balser
2. The Saddest Story Ever Told
From: Simon White
3. Re: Bi question......Not Jimmy & the Boys
From: Rat Pfink
4. Re: Brian Wilson's influence
From: Rat Pfink
5. Buzz Cason
From: Jeff Lemlich
6. Re: Brian Wilson's influence
From: Dave Mirich
7. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: Bob Wallis
8. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: Ed B
9. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: Bob Hanes
10. Sally Go 'Round The Roses
From: James Botticelli
11. Re: Tracey Dey
From: Mick Patrick
12. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: David Salter
13. Re: styrene/vinyl
From: steveo
14. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: steveo
15. Re: Dennis Wilson album title / Jan & Dean backup
From: Watson Macblue
16. Miss Ronnie Grossman / Andrea Carroll
From: steveo
17. Orgone Box!!!; Lee-Anne; MacPark; mea culpa re: Peggy lee; Avanti
From: Country Paul
18. Re: Good lines / Bad lines
From: Paul Bryant
19. Re: Misunderstood
From: Dave Heasman
20. Re: Buzz Cason
From: Rodney Rawlings
21. Re: MacArthur Park
From: Art Longmire
22. Re: styrene/vinyl
From: Dan Hughes
23. Re: Jan & Dean backup
From: Steve Harvey
24. Re: The Dawn Patrol
From: Steve Harvey
25. Re: Words & Melodies, Melodies & Words
From: Steve Harvey
26. Favorite Jimmie Haskell arrangements
From: James Cassidy
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:43:03 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Paul Balser
Subject: Re: Answer Songs
> One of my favorite musical subjects is answer songs.
> etc, etc. A-Side Records did a decent CD of them in the 90's.
> How many others are there?
> Somebody has probably already mentioned this and I just can't
> find it, but Bear Family Records has at least one and maybe
> two comps of answer songs. Their website is located at
> http://www.bear-family.de
They are called "And The Answer Is" they give you the song & the
answer to it.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:42:13 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: The Saddest Story Ever Told
Albabe Gordon wrote:
> After a while I started to notice that those few cued seconds
> at the beginning of some records would be missing the high-end.
All too technical for me. But what I do know - to my cost - is
that if you cue up a styrene 45 by winding it backwards it 'burns'
the record and ruins it. And I didn't know this until I did it on
a 45 I'd paid £160.00 for. And I don't want to talk about it.
Simon
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:44:44 -0500
From: Rat Pfink
Subject: Re: Bi question......Not Jimmy & the Boys
> Another Aussie (bi-sexual) song also by Jimmy & the Boys - "I'm
> not like everyone else".
> Well, yes, it is an Aussie song, but it's not a bi or gay song.
> As I'd never heard of it I went googling and found the lyrics:
>
> I don't wear no clothes that are hand-me-down
> I don't smile when I wear a frown
> Once I get started, you can't hold me down
> Once I get goin', I go to town
Are you sure you've got the right song? Those lyrics sound like
"I'm Not Like Everybody Else" by The Kinks?
RP
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:57:41 -0500
From: Rat Pfink
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson's influence
Diane wrote:>
> Now, here's my toss on Brian Wilson's influence: How about Todd
> Rundgren? His very melodic songs, his great harmonies, his
> arrangements, with separate "movements". I don't know if Todd has
> ever acknowledged a debt to Brian, but I feel Brian's stamp on
> Todd's writing. Anyone else see this?
Rundgren did a version of "Good Vibrations" on his "Faithful"
album so he's probably a fan.
RP
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:49:45 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Buzz Cason
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Buzz Cason is one of my closest friends (in Nashville), so
> tell me what you want to know and I'll ask him for you.
Can you ask Cason what he remembers about Edie Walker? She
recorded two songs for his Rising Sons label in the late 60s.
She had two early records on Miami labels prior to recording
for his label, but other than that, virtually nothing is known
about her.
Thanks,
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:58:08 -0700
From: Dave Mirich
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson's influence
Diane:
> Now, here's my toss on Brian Wilson's influence: How about Todd
> Rundgren? His very melodic songs, his great harmonies, his
> arrangements, with separate "movements". I don't know if Todd has
> ever acknowledged a debt to Brian, but I feel Brian's stamp on
> Todd's writing. Anyone else see this?
Todd recorded a note for note, flawless rendition of Good Vibrations.
I guess this was an acknowledgement of Brian's influence on him.
Dave Mirich
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 02:00:36 -0000
From: Bob Wallis
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
superoldies wrote:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal
> partner is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy
> As 1,2,3"...and even stranger than she has never been credited.
> Anyone know?
I believe it is Jan Berry's long-time girlfriend, Jill Gibson, who
also shares writing credits with Don Altfeld on the song. Jill was
involved with quite a few Jan & Dean tracks and stood by him for a
long time after his "Dead Man's Curve" accident.
BW
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 02:02:14 -0000
From: Ed B
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
superoldies wrote:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal
> partner is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy
> As 1,2,3"...and even stranger than she has never been credited.
> Anyone know?
Hello just a hunch may have been jill Gibson one time girlfriend
of Jan? who also released a version of this song on Imperial
66068 with Jilly's Flip Side on the "b' side produced by Jan
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:02:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Hanes
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
superoldies wrote:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal
> partner is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy
> As 1,2,3"...and even stranger than she has never been credited.
> Anyone know?
Jill Gibson was the girl on the record. In fact Jan put the
record out by Jill Gibson. You can see the back of her head in
the swimming pool on the cover of the Mama's and Papa's Deliver Lp.
Michelle had split and Jill took her place at Lou Adler's request.
Jill also co-wrote the Woolies only hit, whose name escapes me
right this minute.
The Right Reverend Bob, dumb angel chapel,
Church of the Harmonic Overdub
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:04:03 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
Clark Besch wrote:
> Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering? "Sally Go Round
> the Roses" by the Jaynetts. Tuff Records was right! How could a
> song that sounded this bad on 45 ever make the top 10?
Sheer ethereality and a mystique unsurpassed even by Betty Friedan.
Oh! The pain. Oh! The ennui. Roses? They can't hurt you. But
everything else in your path can and will. Sally seeking safety.
Sally seeking sanity. The path around the roses? Sally's Alley. Hope
that helps.
JB
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 02:10:37 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Re: Tracey Dey
Phil Hall:
> Tracey Dey is one of many others I've always wondered about.
> What happened to her? Does anyone have any specific
> information about her? How about Jean Thomas? There's lots
> of others I wonder about, too, but no point in getting carried
> away with the subject in one post. Is there a subgroup within
> Spectropop that specializes in the 60s girl groups?
Hi Phil,
Blimey yes! S'pop is *much* more that just a Discussion Forum.
Thank goodness. To find out what I mean, visit the main website
by clicking here: http://www.spectropop.com/
You should find navigation from there quite straightforward. For
example, just click on the words "Girl Groups" and be transported
instantly to a whole world of shang-doo-lang-lang wonder.
Without much doubt, the best place to read about Jean(ne) Thomas
(and her group the Rag Dolls) is in John Clemente's wonderful book
Girl Groups: Fabulous Females That Rocked The World. You'll find
more info about that book at the S'pop Girl Group link too.
Read about Tracey Dey in the Where The Girls Are #5 CD booklet.
That CD is reviewed in the S'pop Recommends section at this link:
http://spectropop.com/recommends/
Seriously, the S'pop website is a valuable research facility
that not nearly enough of our members utilise, or appreciate.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:12:27 -0600
From: David Salter
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal
> partner is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy
> As 1,2,3"...and even stranger than she has never been credited.
> Anyone know?
It's Jill Gibson, Jan's girlfriend at the time.
If you want to see photos of her and Jan go to
http://www.jananddean-janberry.com/gallery/gallery.html
David
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:23:44 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: styrene/vinyl
Mr.Gordon,
My old disc jokey buddy Chris Compton used to tell me about cueing
up records for stations such as KBMI, etc, he said he would wind
it back a quarter turn from the start of the sound. I also remember
record wiping cloths, but was warned that the silicone in them
would take off the highs. I also heard that playing the disc more
than once before resting it, would also shave off the highs. DIrt
was an enemy of reocrds, so Chris would often wash them with "Joy"
dishwashing soap. For me, i always felt it was lubrication of the
needle that was important, so i wold try to do that.
Steveo
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:33:24 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
superoldies wrote:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal partner
> is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy As 1,2,3"...
> and even stranger than she has never been credited. Anyone know?
No, but Marilyn Wilson, former Mrs. Brian Wilson used to tell me that
she and her siter and gf (ther honeys) sang aong with Brian and Jan
and Dean on "The New Girl In School". Those vocals were multi-tiered.
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:44:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Watson Macblue
Subject: Re: Dennis Wilson album title / Jan & Dean backup
Poul Nielsen writes:
> I remember having read that Dennis Wilson’s Pacific Ocean Blue
> LP originally was titled Pacific Ocean Blues with the album
> title being changed for no apparent reason just before the cover
> was printed. Can anybody confirm this?
Some confusion here. The album's original working title was
Freckles, but this (like Dumb Angel, the working title of Smile)
bit the dust fairly early in the proceedings. Pacific Ocean Blue
(no "s") is the *album*; Pacific Ocean Blues (with the "s") is the
*song* on the album, which includes the line "It's no wonder the
Pacific Ocean is blue" - hence the album title. I can't recollect
the *album* ever being titled P.O. Blues.
Superoldies writes:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female vocal partner
> is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune "It's As Easy As 1,2,3"...
> and even stranger than she has never been credited. Anyone know?
Yup. Jill Gibson, at one stage Jan's girlfriend, and also,
apparently (presumably at another time), Lou Adler's. (Didn't
Adler marry Shelley Fabares, by the way? He seems to have gone
through the female beach music community like a dose of salts.)
Jill also got to record it as her only single (Imperial 66068).
Incidentally, whatever happened to I Know That You'll Be There,
recorded by Shelley Fabares with The Fantastic Baggys? I've been
expecting to see it on CD sometime over the last few years, but no
show. Grumble.
Watson
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:49:03 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Miss Ronnie Grossman / Andrea Carroll
Phil Hall wrote:
> ...For example, I heard on good authority that Andrea Carroll
> married a movie producer and has been happily living on the
> West Coast for decades now; obviously retired from the music
> business.
Phil,
Andrea Carroll, frooom Clevland, lives and works in the San Fernando
Valley, and is a psychologist. I remember her "It Hurts To Be Sixteen"
in the summer of '63 on the radio out here in southern California. I
always enjoyed her voice, and also am a big fan of the writer of that
song, Miss Ronnie Grossman. Ronnie wrote a great song for her brother,
Mr. Neil Sedaka, entitled, "The Dreamer" also out on the radio about
the same time. Sadly, Ronnie is no longer with us.
Steveo
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:24:05 -0500
From: Country Paul
Subject: Orgone Box!!!; Lee-Anne; MacPark; mea culpa re: Peggy lee; Avanti
Jules Normington:
> ...I'd like to throw another hat into the ring...that will fit
> MANY of you on this list. That hat belongs to The Orgone Box...
> If you don't know them, if you were to find a copy of their
> self-titled CD, you'd be blessed by a stunning album full of
> the most beautiful melodies, utterly gorgeous production....
I checked out the samples at
http://www.minuszerorecords.com/orgonebox.html#sounds and am completely
and totally wanting more. Does anyone have a US source at less pricey
terms than this? How have we not heard of this until now? And why oh
why isn't/wasn't this a hit? If the rest of this is as good as the
samples, there's not a bad track on it. What a find!
Martin Roberts:
> The featured song on Al Hazan's page is another obscure 60s female
> vocalist: Lee-Anne with the self-composed "Never" on Ann records:
> http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/ahjnrotw.htm
...which I finally got to listen to in toto. Delightful ballad - sort
of Paris Sisters meet Kathy Young.
Paul Bryant:
> Am I the only person who still plays [MacArthur Park] for pleasure?
> Does it now make people cringe and run away?
You may be one of the few, Paul; I do indeed cringe. Many overbaked
metaphors abound.
Art Longmire:
> My theory is that many listeners, especially younger ones, just
> hear it as a bombastic piece of drivel with pretentious lyrics.
I have felt that way after the first couple of listenings, but I confess
I was intrigued those first two times. Sorta like watching a train wreck,
IMO. But the next hundred-plus times were 99-plus too many for me. In
truth, time has not been kind to MacPark - deservedly, in my opinion -
but there are certainly more pretentious and bombastic songs of that
era out there that weren't as prominent as this one, or as good at being
what it was. (Many early Genesis tracks often seem to fit this
description.) Having said that, Webb had some exceptional songs on an
album called "And So: On" on one of the Warner labels in the early 70s.
And not "a striped pair of pants" to be seen anywhere! :-)
Mea culpa re: Peggy Lee's "Sing A Rainbow." I remember "He's A Tramp"
from "Lady and The Tramp" and elided the former into the latter. I've
never seen "Pete Kelly's Blues"; am I missing something? Thanks for fact-
checking me, TD. So - is it on a CD anywhere?
Dan Hughes, an Avanti was a very cool Studebaker sport coupe introduced
in the early 60s that was bought from the company and taken private when
Studebaker crashed and burned in 1966. They continued to be made for
several years afterward and are highly-sought collectors' items in both
incarnations. Proof of the Avanti was that to many it still looked
contemporary and exciting long after its "shelf life" should have been
over. In fact, I'd like to have one now....
Three days - and 150 messages - behind, but trying to keep up....
Country Paul
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:00:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Good lines / Bad lines
Dear poppers,
I nominate this song in a unique category - it contains one of
the best lines AND one of the worst lines.
The good:
The way that we cheered whenever our team was scoring a touchdown
The time that the floor fell out of my car when I put the clutch down
and the BAD!
The penny arcade, the games that we played, the fun and the prizes
The Halloween hop when everyone came in funny disguises...
eeeek
pb
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:53:20 -0000
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: Misunderstood
David Coyle:
> The only problem is that the Misunderstood (an American band
> that recorded in London, and was apparently licensed through
> Apple) is listed on the sleeve and referenced in the notes,
> but the three tracks listed were left off, apparently for
> licensing reasons.
They were led by the other Glen Campbell, he played slide &
steel guitar. "I Can Take You To The Sun" was their masterpiece.
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:54:28 -0000
From: Rodney Rawlings
Subject: Re: Buzz Cason
That's amazing. I am reading Brenda Lee's autobiography LITTLE MISS
DYNAMITE, and today I read the chapter where she explains all about
Buzz Cason--how she met him, his sometime confusion with all the
stage names he was given, etc.
Up till I read that, I had never even heard of the man. Say hello to
him and Gary Miles also.
Rodney Rawlings
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:45:28 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: MacArthur Park
Phil Milstein;
> As much as I love MacArthur Park, I'd be curious to apply the
> Shatner question to it: was Webb kidding when he wrote those
> lyrics, or was he dead serious?
I'd say Webb was serious-if you look at his overall output of songs,
he often had a flair for the florid and melodramatic in his lyrics,
which may have reached a peak in "MacArthur Park". Coupled with
Richard Harris' rather pompous "singing" style and you have something
that people seem to love or hate...not much middle ground there!
Probably my favorite singer of Webb's songs was Billy Davis, Jr. of
the Fifth Dimension. For a lyricist with Webb's style, the final
result often rested with the singer and the way that they handled
Webb's songs. As an example, I'll cite "The Worst That Could Happen"-
I've heard many schmaltzy versions of this, but Billy Davis Jr's
version is spine-chillingly great.
Although I love Harris' "MacArthur Park", I never did go much for
Donna Summer's version-it's not bad, just sort of "run-of-the mill"
to me.
Art Longmire
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:13:11 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: styrene/vinyl
Needles made for radio station turntables were constucted so
that they could play either direction without harm to the
record, so cueing by backing up the record was no problem.
Once in a while a needle would be damaged and could destroy
records -- I remember once when I was backing up a record to
cue it, and I watched in horror as a furrow of plastic was
plowed -- it just rose right into the air -- by the needle as
I spun the record backwards.
---Dan, radio DJ 1967-1980, now GM of a radio station that
still uses turntables for weekend specialty programs....
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:23:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Jan & Dean backup
superoldies wrote:
> I've never been able to find info of who the female
> vocal partner is on Jan & Dean's rather strange tune
> "It's As Easy As 1,2,3"...and even stranger than she
> has never been credited. Anyone know?
Perhaps Jill Gibson, Jan's girlfriend and one time
Mama when Michelle got the boot.
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:26:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: The Dawn Patrol
Here's some new insight on the Left Banke.
> http://dawneden.com/blogger.html
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:34:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Words & Melodies, Melodies & Words
Chris wrote:
> Well, we won't talk about Bob Dylan, will we?
I seem to recall that a number of Bob's tunes had
memorable melodies to them, a few which he even wrote
himself.
> But I do think that there's a case for describing
> Leiber & Stoller (whom I revere) as being better at
> lyrics than the creation of melodies.
I agree on this point. Some in jokes like putting
Shifti Henry in the pen for "Jailhouse Rock".
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Message: 26
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:13:00 -0500
From: James Cassidy
Subject: Favorite Jimmie Haskell arrangements
Glenn wrote:
> One of my favorite things he did was the horn & string
> arrangement on Blondie's "The Tide Is High". Made the whole
> record, IMO.
I concur. I also like his arrangement on Steely Dan's "My Old
School" and some of the Decca-era Rick(y) Nelson stuff.
Jim Cassidy
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