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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 26 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Take Five vocal
From: Den Lindquist
2. Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
From: Austin Roberts
3. Paul Evans et al
From: Michael Godin
4. Patty Duke song, "Tell Me Mama"
From: Mark Hill
5. Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
From: GEORGEROBERTSON@aol.com
6. Re: Take Five vocal
From: Simon White
7. Becoming a Writer
From: Rex Strother
8. Re: question for Austin Roberts re: Emitt Rhodes
From: Austin Roberts
9. Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
From: Cleber
10. Re: Sebastian & Boone & Dylan
From: Al Kooper
11. Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
From: Steve Harvey
12. Re: Songwriter credits, Ringo Starr
From: Andrew Hickey
13. Re: Beatle Myth Pt.2
From: TD
14. Payola
From: Dan Hughes
15. songwriting credits
From: A. Zweig
16. Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
From: Trevor
17. Re: JFK & the Beatles
From: Mike McKay
18. Beatles bands...Pubert & co.
From: Jules Normington
19. Italian Roots
From: Julio Niño
20. Songs that "quote" others / Songwriter credits...Radio Birdman
From: Jules Normington
21. Re: cigarette commercial music
From: steveo
22. Re: cigarette commercial music
From: Clark Besch
23. Ready for those obscure questions !
From: Paul Evans
24. Re: Beatle myth, pt.2
From: John Sellards
25. Re: Feldman, Goldstein & Gottehrer
From: Mike Rashkow
26. Re: The earliest fake-skipper?
From: Clark Besch
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:02:26 -0500
From: Den Lindquist
Subject: Re: Take Five vocal
Carmen McCrae did a vocal version of "Take Five" on Columbia
(maybe 1961-62).
It was a slower, soulful version, as I remember.
I have the single around here somewhere...
Den.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:21:35 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
> How about Billy Stewart's vocal ending on Summertime
> (for that matter his whole vocal)?
Billy G S:
> I always liked the way Stewart took the line "Your mama's
> rich" and strectched it into "Your mama's rich--sonoffab*tch".
Billy, I agree. I loved that vocal.
Austin R
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:03:03 -0800
From: Michael Godin
Subject: Paul Evans et al
Hi Paul,
Great to have my good friend Paul Evans as a new member to
Spectropop. Paul has been a frequent guest on my show over
the past few years. I would also more than welcome all of
our other writers, producers, and recording artists to have
a visit at my website and get in touch with me offline at your
convenience to arrange an interview.
Cheers.
Michael Godin
http://www.TreasureIslandOldies.com
michael@TreasureIslandOldies.com
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:06:13 -0500
From: Mark Hill
Subject: Patty Duke song, "Tell Me Mama"
Robert R. Radil:
> I recall her 1965 hit, "Don't Just Stand There", was pretty good.
Phil Hall:
> I'll grant that she's no Whitney Houston, but her song "One Kiss
> Away" is a fair representation of the entire early 60s girl group
> sound, and she does a respectable job on it.
Back when "The Patty Duke Show" used to be on Nik at Night, they
frequently showed a promo commercial- with clips from the show -
over which they played a cutesy little pop song she sang in one
episode, "Tell Me Mama." (May not be the title, but that's the
most repeated line.) I look every time I see a Duke album and
checked her hits CD, but there is no song on there with that title.
Of the half dozen songs or so I've heard by Patty, it has to be
the one I know best. Anyone else familiar with the song and know
where I could find it?
"Dr. Mark" Hill * The Doctor Of Pop Culture /*/ drmark7@juno.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/popmusicpopculture
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:20:13 EST
From: GEORGEROBERTSON@aol.com
Subject: Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
Trevor Ley:
> Great choices, both of you, although I always thought of
> the "Tragedy" ending as "Bung". Does the Exciters' "Tell Him"
> end cold or fade? Don't have a copy at the moment. Seem to
> recall it winds down to the quick violin notes.
Hey Trevor, You say Bung,I say Bong,let's call the whole thing
off. LOL Whatever they sang,it was a mutha.
Austin Roberts
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 00:40:56 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: Re: Take Five vocal
> Wasn't there a vocal version of Dave Brubeck's "Take Five"?
AK:
> That would probably have been Lambert Hendricks & Ross on
> Columbia.
There is certainly a version by the marvellous Carmen Mcrae.
Can we talk about Mark Murphy now?
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:33:41 -0700
From: Rex Strother
Subject: Becoming a Writer
I think Al makes a great point - nobody here (or probably anywhere)
could possibly disparage George Martin's contribution or Carol Kaye's
playing (who wants a brick to the noggin, after all?). But if those
folks wanted to be songwriters - then they would have to write a lyric
down, sing a melody over it, and hire some of their session musician and
arranger friends to make it into a recording.
Maybe Ringo did deserve 10% writing credit for coming up with a title -
but that's a battle he would have had to fight. At least the historical
record mentions his contribution (even if he doesn't get a BMI check);
so that's something.
Bless the songwriters and bless the musicians, producers and arrangers.
Where it doesn't end in a squabble, we get some lovely music!
Rex
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:13:06 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: question for Austin Roberts re: Emitt Rhodes
Clark Besch:
> Austin, When reading the Emitt Rhodes story, I thought about you.
> Since you were on Dunhill in 1971 as was Emitt, did you also feel
> pressure from Dunhill to release records. The Arkade had only
> singles and yet Emitt was expected to have 2 Lps a year! What was
> your contract like? By the way, I have read this same stuff on Emitt
> since the 80's Bangles interview stuff. I just want to slap Emitt
> and tell him to get ahold of himself, but it's easy when you are a
> fan and you want the same thing Dinhull wanted: 2 Lps a year!!
Clark, I remember Emitt pretty well. Dunhill was really hot with
Steppenwolf, Three Dog Night,The Grass Roots, all selling large amounts
of albums (pre-CD, of course), especially 3 Dog and Steppenwolf. The
Arkade was formed when Steve Barri wanted to put together a singles act
of singer-writers that loved straight-ahead pop and wrote songs for
themselves as well as other artists. My main reason for leaving after
Morning Of Our Lives was to become a single artist.
Anyway, that kind of paints a general picture of what Dunhill was about
at that time. When Emitt came out with his first album everyone at
Dunhill, and soon the whole country, was amazed that one guy could write
so many great pop songs and more or less put it all together so well in
his own home studio. He was hot right outa the box. He was different
than anything that they had and was selling a lot of albums, and since
he more or less did everything himself (not much expense, etc.), they
were pushing for more and more product from him so they could sell sell
sell while he was hot hot hot. Not thinking of the long haul, where he
could have the time to create each album the way he had the first one,
that got everyone hooked in the first place. Now this is just my take on
the situation. He was a very personal artist that needed to do his thing
his way, but the label milked and milked.
I met him a couple of times and he seemed to be a good guy. I haven't
read the article yet -- on purpose -- because I hate to read about great
talents that have been injured by the record business, usually through no
fault of their own. I'll read it tomorrow, but I'm sure it will bring me
down.
The best person at Dunhill was, by far, Steve Barri, because he knew how to
get the best out of each artist without scaring them off or killing their
confidence. Unfortunately I don't believe Steve had a lot of say where Emitt
was concerned; at least I don't think so.
Sorry to be so verbose on this, but it's a bittersweet story to me because
I really enjoyed the experience at Dunhill, but Steve didn't put a lot of
pressure on us since we were always writing as well as recording and we all
knew that going in. With Emitt being in charge of all of the creative
aspects of his records, he was open to pressure from every direction. A lot
of artists given that much freedom, as well as pressure to come up with great
product at the speed that the Company wanted, get buried in the business end
of things, plus a lot of times not being paid as they should be, and finally
it gets to them to the point that they can no longer do the thing that they
are good at. That's the bitter part of those late '60s,early '70s days, in my
opinion. I was lucky that I left to go in the studio with Danny Janssen and
Bobby Hart and come up with Something's Wrong With Me and Keep On Singing. I
was happy as a clam being a single artist, but with minimum pressure from the
label (Wes Farrell's Chelsea Records) -- probably the difference between Emitt
and folks like myself. Where his work was more of a personal process, mine
(and many others) was in the fun of collaboration in and out of the studio.
Making records has always been great for me, mainly because the
esponsibilities for the product were on several shoulders, not just one.
Although long and perhaps boring, that's the best way that I can explain
what might have happened with Emitt and several other gifted artists.
Best, Austin
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:00:43 -0000
From: Cleber
Subject: Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
Cleber:
> Holy Cow, I have been wanting to here Mr Balloon Man for years and
> yes he is now a Christian singer. Anyway you could play Mr Balloon
> Man to musica?
Unfortunately i don't have equipament to do that, but i'll try to
find somebody do that for me, but could take a long time.
Cleber
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:16:05 EST
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Sebastian & Boone & Dylan
> The pictures in various books and magazine articles affirm that John
> worked some of those sessions. Dylan's producer, John Hammond Sr. was
> also a family friend of John, Mark and their dad, the harmonica
> virtuoso John Sebastian. However in the Mojo piece both Boone and
> Sebastian mused about whether John didn't refer Steve to do one of the
> dates. Steve has memories of working some of the Dylan sessions.
Too lazy to look but I'm betting John Hammond Sr is out of
the picture on BIABH and Tom Wilson is firmly in place,
therefore John Srs. connections mean nothing here. Also I
dont recall a bass on Mr Tambourine Man. Too old ? Perhaps,
perhaps.......give a listen , gang
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:18:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
Al,
The shots of Dylan teaching the guy bass are definately Sebastian.
However, once Steve pointed out that he played on some of the
sessions too I did check on a Dylan site and found his name listed
too. They goofed and wrote John Boone instead of Steve, but they
also listed Sebastian too. John played on Mr. Tambourine Man,
Maggie's Farm and On the Road Again. Boone is mentioned on that link
I sent on Sunday.
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:13:41 +0100
From: Andrew Hickey
Subject: Re: Songwriter credits, Ringo Starr
> Paul.......Tom....How ya' doin'? I agree that Ringo should've
> gotten some of the writers credit and royalties, but that's up
> to the parties involved. Maybe John and Paul thought being a
> drummer in the biggest group in the world was enough remuneration?
There's a difference though - of the two titles Ringo is credited with,
one was used after the song was already written and recorded (Tomorrow
Never Knows) and the other (A Hard Day's Night) had actually appeared
in Lennon's book In His Own Write before Ringo used the phrase and
inspired the song...
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:20:02 -0500
From: TD
Subject: Re: Beatle Myth Pt.2
Steveo:
> "Twist and Shout" was a great record by the Isleys,
> but John took it to new heights (this is my opinion).
Tell it to the marines (the sailors won't listen). You may
like the Beatles "Twist and Shout" because it's the first
version you've heard. I liked "Twist and Shout" in its
earlier incarnation when Richie Valens sang it as "La Bamba",
embellishing the message with beautiful guitar chops--"To
dance La Bamba, one must be graceful". I liked the Isley
Brothers "Twist And Shout", with their vocal trills and
cookin' rhythm section. Quite frankly, the Beatles version
of "Twist and Shout" isn't anything that a competent wedding
band from Ofay, New Jersey wasn't already doing. In 1963,
the woods were full of competent wedding bands.
--TD
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:24:38 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Payola
I've always been curious about payola, and it struck me that some of our
members may well have some stories. You hear about how rampant payola
was in the early days of rock and roll, and that bad songs became hits
because of it, but I don't think I've ever heard examples of which
particular "bad" songs became hits because of payola.
This note is prompted by a report I heard this morning on NPR. An FCC
commissioner announced he is going to crack down on payola, which he says
is still prevalent to the tune of over $150 million per year. A music
executive was quoted as saying something like "To say payola is back is
to say that gravity is stronger this year. It never left." The report
also claimed that Carly Simon's "Jesse" had more payola spent to make it
a hit than maybe any other song, and it still didn't make Billboard's top
ten (though it did sell a million).
Personally, I don't think payola ever made a bad song a hit. First, the
politicians who fought payola hated rock and roll. They could not
believe that people would buy that garbage unless they were paid to buy
it. But as we kids knew, they were out to lunch on that one. I bought
records because I loved them, not because I heard them over and over.
My theory is that the songs that were helped by payola were not bad
songs. It's just that maybe twenty good songs would be released in one
week, and payola helped determine which two or three of those would get
airplay and become hits, while the rest were ignored and dropped into
oblivion, only to reappear 40 years later to be shared on musica.
So--do any of you oldtimers have payola stories?
---Dan
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:56:44 -0500
From: A. Zweig
Subject: songwriting credits
Paul Bryant wrote:
> I have a question for the songwriters amongst you.
> Some time ago Bill Wyman was trying to get some kind
> of songwriter credit for various early Jagger/Richards
> songs because he said his bass playing helped make the
> records hits (I remember 19th Nervous Breakdown was
> singled out for its diving bass runs). Was he being
> ridiculous?
I'm not a songwriter but I find this entire concept a little ridiculous.
You're in a band or you're a session musician. Someone comes in with a
song. They play it on acoustic guitar or piano. At that point it is
basically a song. It's not a "recorded" song. Maybe it's not even a good
song. Maybe there's virtually nothing to it. Maybe it will only become a
good song once you and the other members of the band make your unique
contributions. But isn't that your job? To make the song better than it
was when you first heard it. To put your unique stamp on it. That's why
people love your band or keep asking you to play on sessions. But I don't
see how that has to do with songwriting. I mean, I love the organ playing
on "Like a rolling stone", it's one of my favorite elements of the song and
I certainly prefer Dylan's version to Buddy Greco's but when I hear Buddy
Greco do it, it'is the same song.
(Wouldn't it be funny if Al Kooper informed me now that he also played on
Buddy Greco's version?) Anyway I don't want to make it seem like I'm
undervaluing the many unique and brilliant contributions of musicians. But
I just don't think songwriting credit is the way to acknowledge that.
AZ
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:43:10 -0000
From: Trevor
Subject: Re: Spine Shiverers / Big Finishes
I'm with you on that, John, alwasy found the "Baddderrrupp" stuff
irritating. Guess because my Mom hipped me to Gershwin. for that
song in the rock vein, gimme Janis.
For finishes, how about the Chambers Bros. "Time Has Come
Today".....urrrrrrrahhh!? For shivers...."Shakin' All Over"
both Live at Leeds and the Guess Who hit.
Trevor Ley
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:00:32 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: JFK & the Beatles
Country Paul wrote:
> I was 18 when JFK was shot and I remember the day better than
> much more recewnt stuff. After an incredible funk that the country was in,
> we were ready for something. Also, the steady diet of "sugar" on pop radio
> was ready for something harder and better. Such records were lurking beneath
> the surface (check 1963's Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks "Bo Diddley"/"Who Do
> Your Love" for a low-charting but kick-butt track driven by some future
> major players) but till the Beatles revealed themselves, there was no
> galvanizing personality (or in this case, personalities) to lead the
> emotional recovery. (I tell a story earlier in the archives about a Murray
> The K Record Review Board in July '63 with Del Shannon and the Beatles in
> competitive voting - Shannon got hundreds, the Beatles were in the single
> digits.)
Reflective of this is a story I've long told on myself.
I remember with absolute clarity the moment I heard "I Want to Hold Your
Hand" for the first time on the radio. Local DJ legend Boots Bell outroed
the song by saying this was the new group from England that was taking the
world by storm. He made quite a big deal out of it, upon which I smugly said
to myself "If that's the kind of music those English guys think we like over
here, they're nuts!"
That's how totally DIFFERENT "I Want to Hold Your Hand" was from what I had
been used to hearing -- and I had been a fanatical listener to Top 40 radio
for at least a year by then (and I do mean fanatical...the classic story of
sneaking the transistor underneath your pillow as you went to bed and
listening until sleep overtook you is absolutely true, I'm here to say!).
Of course, it only took me one or two more listens before I was completely
won over, thus beginning a love affair that has continued without pause for
40 years now. I think it's possible that the theory of America awakening from
the JFK funk has some merit; and I'm sure The Beatles' winning personalities
and the general hype were factors as well.
But as time has proven, it was ultimately what was in the grooves that won
the day. It was fresh, exciting, and yes, different (in terms of melodies,
harmonies, vocal quality, guitar sound, etc.) from anything else around at
the time.
Mike
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:39:13 +1100
From: Jules Normington
Subject: Beatles bands...Pubert & co.
Now this will sound horribly obscure of me....but nobody has ever attempted
and pulled off a better "Sgt. Pepper's.." era Beatles take, than the very
recent PUBERT BROWN FRIDGE OCCURRENCE with their "A Once And Future Thing"
album...there's a touch of 1968 Kinks and Move heavily on display as well.
Album kicks off with a cover of "Eight Days A Week" and it's all originals
from thereon in. The songs are incredibly catchy...plus...it's a real
grower...it gets better all the time...my son's a massive Beatles fan, and
this is his other favourite album.
(you can find out more at: http://www.laughingoutlaw.com.au and click on
"Artists" and scroll down alphabetically)
It's possibly my fave album of 2003...well worthy....trust me.
Cheers, Jules
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:28:54 -0000
From: Julio Niño
Subject: Italian Roots
Hi Everybody.
Paul Bryant wrote:
> I would love it if you could confirm if these songs were all
> originally Italian. The first two were Dusty hits and the last
> three hits by Cilla Black (the Ethel Merman of Merseyside)
> All I See Is You
> Give Me Time
> You're My World
> Love's Just A Broken Heart
> A Fool Am I..."
Paul , "Give Me Time" is a cover of "L´amore se ne va", by Carmelo
Pagano 1966, a think this song was the winner of the song contest
"Festival delle Rose" 1966. I´ve heard the song many times but I
don´t have the record. I think Dusty´s version is just perfect
(although I also love P.J. Proby 1968 version). "All I see is you"
was composed by Clive Westlake and Ben Weisman, and I as far I know
is an original song. Cilla´s "You´re my world" is a version of "Il
mio mondo" a song by Umberto Bindi (composed with Gino Paoli), a
very big hit in Italy, Spain and I suppose, many places in 1963.
Bindi´s version is wonderful, and very easy to find, I also like
very much the French version by Richard Anthony ("Ce Monde", 1964).
I haven´t heard the other two other songs you mentioned. You may
think that I´m a pervert and a neurotic, but I don´t like Cilla
Black´s singing very much. In fact her songs always make me nervous.
She sounds often too vigorous for my taste.
Greetings to everybody.
Julio Niño
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 03:46:08 +1100
From: Jules Normington
Subject: Songs that "quote" others / Songwriter credits...Radio Birdman
Legendary Australian band Radio Birdman (1974-78...reformed 1996 and a few
times since) wrote a song called "Aloha Steve And Danno" about their fave TV
show "Hawaii 5-0" (great lyrics!) wherein the drummer kicks it all off with
a great pounding 60's style surf drum intro, and they use the Mort
Stevens-written theme as the guitar solo...song was written by the band's
guitarist and singer and Mort gets a one-third credit...they also sang the
show's common Steve McGarrett final line "Book him, Danno, murder one" as
the refrain...it's a GREAT song by the way.
They also include: "Got Garland Jeffreys on the car radio..." in "I-94", and
snag the chorus of his "Wild in the Streets" in a song too....virtually all
of the band's members were big fans of 60's surf, Motown, and garage/psych
stuff (and indeed active collectors of the same...and still are! - they've
done many roaring covers from those genres over the years)...they quote
other songs/artists as well. In fact their name comes from a miss-heard line
in a Stooges song ("1970")...and their first album's [appropriate] title
("Radios Appear") was straight out of a Blue Oyster Cult tune ("Dominance
And Submission")....yes, neither of those fall in line with the genres
above, but the band deserves honourable mention, in my opinion, for proudly
wearing their influences on their sleeve.
Come to think of it, their bass player's in the afore-mentioned Pubert Brown
Fridge Occurrence...and their singer recently had a side-band called Nanker
Phelge...
I could go on....
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: cigarette commercial music
Bob, One of the best 60's commercials music was "Colt 45 malt liquor
theme"! This used an ocarina as lead and was very quirky. It had a moderato
beat, but was very memorable! The title of this piece is "A Completely
unique Experience". Steveo
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:06:14 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: cigarette commercial music
I always liked the whistling song to Colt 45 Malt liquor that they
played during that commercial where a guy is sitting on top of water
at a table and a shark comes along and takes the table while he grabs
his beer off. Kinda like the Benson & Hedges thing or the Think
Drink coffee commercial. Clark
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:07:57 -0000
From: Paul Evans
Subject: Ready for those obscure questions !
Dan, Thanks for the introduction.
Ready for those obscure questions. :-)
Paul
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:17:24 -0000
From: John Sellards
Subject: Re: Beatle myth, pt.2
Paul Bryant:
> I dig all on your list and agree, but hang on, where's
> Paul's amazing throat-shredding "Long Tall Sally" in all
> of this? And "Kansas City?" This can't be your full list.
> C'mon, let's have the full list! I always struggle with
> "Long Tall Sally" - it's as good as Little Richard. But
> how can that be? Little Richard was the quasar of rock.
Or "I'm Down", in which Paul updates Little Richard by about 6 years.
I think when it comes down to it, "I'm Down" is my favorite Beatles
record. Not song, but recording.
John Sellards
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:20:10 EST
From: Mike Rashkow
Subject: Re: Feldman, Goldstein & Gottehrer
> Anyone know what else (Feldman, Goldstein & Gottehrer) contributed to?
The McCoys and Rick Derringer.
Rashkovsky
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Message: 26
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:32:19 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: The earliest fake-skipper?
ACJ wrote:
> I just remembered - I have on tape a track from the early 1950s
> called "Get Out Those Old Records," by Broadway legend Mary Martin
> and her son Larry Hagman (then still in his twenties). At the
> beginning and near the end, Mary and Larry sing, "The ones (clap)
> the ones (clap) the ones we heard so long ago." This might make
> this track the earliest "fake-skipping" record.
An early "fake-skipper", the hilarious take off on "History Repeats
Itself". Ben Colder did a classic novelty take off, "Great Men
Repeat Themselves" where he ends repeating over and over "repeat
themselves". That must be the answer: all these people were drunk!
Clark
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