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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. The Water Is Over
From: Martin Roberts
2. Re: competing versions
From: S'pop Team
3. Re: Egyptian Shumba
From: Phil X Milstein
4. The Singing Postman
From: David Bell
5. Re: California Nights / California Dreamin' / Ronald Reagan
From: Karen Andrew
6. Re: Timothy redux
From: Karen Andrew
7. Lesley's Off and Running! ! !
From: Bob Rashkow
8. Re: Ronnie Dove
From: Tom Diehl
9. Re: Americanized Bossa Nova
From: Frank Jastfelder
10. Re: R'n'R Hall Of Fame
From: John Fox
11. Re: compulsory rate
From: Phil X Milstein
12. Take My Heart
From: Richard Globman
13. Ray Charles, R.I.P.
From: S'pop Team
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 08:01:58 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: The Water Is Over
Al Kooper kindly gave the gen on his work with Jack Nitzsche...
none to speak of!
> Hope this helps, Martin...
It did Al, thanks.
Thanks also for the line from "The Water Is Over My Head":
> "my paper doll princess just walked out of the door,
> taking nothing more than me...."
I'd long given up attempting to decipher the lyrics accurately,
being content with my loose interpretation. In a way this has
kept the song fresh and bearing constant replaying.
As for "The Old Rag Man" I checked my Eddie Hodges 45 AND BMI.
If Bob Brass reads S'pop you may be getting a call!
Best,
Martin
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:33:51 +0100
From: S'pop Team
Subject: Re: competing versions
With this compendium of remaining posts, the Admin Team
is declaring the "competing versions" thread closed.
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Bob Rashkow:
The first version of "Sweets For My Sweet" I ever heard was actually
by Chicago rockers The Riddles. It was quite a hit on the local
stations. But my favorite has to be The Searchers' because they do it
in such an enthralling MINOR chord!
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Gary Myers:
Artie Wayne wrote:
> I knew that Capitol records was coming out with a version of "Midnight
> Mary", which I co-wrote with Ben Raleigh.
And that was Jerry Cole's version, which I don't think I've ever heard.
I've worked with Jerry a few times (in fact he lives somewhere kind of
close to me), and he's an excellent guitarist, but also quite a BS'er.
He'll tell you that his version of MM was the hit (and I've even heard
him say that he wrote "Splish Splash"). Jerry was a slightly later
member of the Champs (along with Seals & Crofts and Glen Campbell), but
he'll also tell you that he was on "Tequila". He's originally from
Green Bay, so he's mentioned in my Wisconsin book, "Do You Hear That
Beat" (How's that for a subtle plug )?
Phil Milstein wrote:
> I think this phenomenon was a vestige of the pre-recording era, where
> "hit" songs were measured by sheet music sales ...
The last "cover battle" that I recall noticing was in 1975, with "I'm On
Fire" by 5000 Volts and Jim Gilstrap.
> ... it wasn't until the arrival of The Beatles, which initiated the
> dynamic of a large number of star performers composing their own
> material, that the phenomenon of near-simultaneous release of more
> than one version of a hitbound song finally collapsed.
Another thing that happened with The Beatles was the unprecedented top
40 airplay of album cuts. This resulted in Beatles soundalike versions
of songs that The Beatles did not issue on singles. Three that come to
mind are "Michelle" (David & Jonathan), "Birthday" by Underground
Sunshine (covered in my Wisc. book), and "I'll Be Back", an obscure
release by Milwaukee's Ricochettes (also in my book).
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Dan Hughes:
In regards to Midnight Mary, I grew up in Indianapolis, and the local
rock station played that song for about a week by Jerry Cole on Capitol,
then they switched to the Joey Powers version and the first one was never
heard again. My personal opinion was that the Cole version sounded more
"mature" than Joey's; the Joey Powers version was bouncier and catchier.
Took me a while to take to the Powers version after being first exposed
to the Cole song.
When the Marcels did Blue Moon, either our local rock station didn't
like it, or they didn't have a copy. Either way, rather than ignore the
song completely they actually put the Frank Sinatra version on their
playlist! Took them maybe two or three weeks to switch over. I assure
you that in that particular instance, the kids were not impressed with
Frank.
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Joe Nelson:
Timing, timing, timing: Keep in mind B.W. Stevenson recorded "Shambala"
first, goosing Three Dog Night to shove their version out so fast they
apparently never got around to remixing it for stereo.
Strangely, I consider Pat Boone to be an important figure in R&R history
because of those covers. Intentionally or otherwise, Pat's records were
so antiseptic and sterile they sent the whole cover record industry
crashing into the nearest brick wall. The covers ended up as such a
parody of the genre that it became incredible -- which in turn translated
to increased interest in the originals. But this is but my opinion.
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Mike McKay:
previously:
> Of course when The Beatles and lots of the other Merseybeat groups came
> along, the A&R guys just looked for great songs and they found them in
> America.
But isn't it more likely, in the case of the Merseybeat groups in
particular, that many of those American covers that appeared on their
first two or three albums were actually a part of their live performance
repertoire already -- as opposed to them being picked out for them by A&R
people to record?
Certainly all the covers on Beatles albums right up through "Beatles For
Sale" were tunes the lads had been performing live -- in some cases, for
several years. It's said that that particular album has so many cover
versions because, what with their whirlwind touring, John and Paul hadn't
had the chance to write nearly enough originals to fill an LP.
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Frank M.:
previously:
> ...and it pains me to remember (Cilla Black) also beat The Righteous
> Brothers on "You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin'"...
Almost but not quite, after a press campaign by Andrew Log Oldham and
some expert work by Decca plugger Tony Hall. Cilla reached #2 by 14th
January 1965, but at the #1 spot were the Righteous Brothers and You've
Lost That Lovin' Feelin'.
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Country Paul:
Mike The Bass Player wrote:
> The Chords "meant it" whereas the Crew Cuts sounded like an ivy league
> glee club.
There were several groups of "white guys" like that at that time. I tend
to lump The Crew Cuts in with The Four Aces and The Four Coins in
particular -- big brassy sound, close harmonies, almost interchangeable
-- and to a lesser degree, The Ames Brothers. (I can "forgive" The Four
Lads, who had a superb blend and a sound of their own, especially when
the high tenor got crankin'.)
One note about The Four Coins -- I've mentioned a very fine Merseybeat-
style song they did on Joy in 1964, "Boys Cry," covered exceptionally
well by Eden Kane in the UK. The record stands tall in its own right,
but it's hard to believe this is the same group that did "Three Coins In
The Fountain"!
Artie Wayne, great comments about cover versions. I think it's the first
comment I've seen by a publisher on the subject -- of course, a publisher
who also happens to be a composer and performer! :-) Thanks for the
insight.
Austin Powell wrote:
> Marty Wilde covered "Endless Sleep", "Donna", "A Teenager In Love" and
> "Sea Of Love", but slowed up a bit on the cover versions after Bobby
> Vee held his own on "Rubber Ball".
He also covered Robin Luke's "Bad Boy" (not the Carole King song) and
made a small dent in the US charts as well, if I remember correctly.
Austin again:
> Gene McDaniels' "100 Pounds Of Clay" covered by Craig Douglas who got
> the hit version at a second attempt after the BBC refused to play the
> song because of one line in the lyrics. Douglas re-recorded the song
> with the line amended and made the top 10.
First, which line, please? Second, I have a rather pleasant ballad by
this artist, "Love Her While She's Young." Was this a hit in the UK?
Austin once more:
> The Big Three revived Richie Barrett's "Some Other Guy"....
I don't know that song at all. And I'm not sure anyone but S'poppers and
Chantels fans have any idea who Richard Barrett was!
-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Fishberg:
Here in the U.K. we couldn't get The Chords' version at the time, so we
had to settle for The Crew-Cuts, but boy did they have a hit!
-----------------------------------------------------
Austin Roberts:
Country Paul wrote:
> To start -- and end about this song -- previously discussed here at
> length was the Garry Mills vs. Garry Miles "Look For A Star" duel. It
> doesn't get much closer than that!
I think Gary Miles (Buzz Cason won this battle). How about Beautiful
People by Bobby Vee and Kenny O'Dell (the writer)?
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:04:51 -0400
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: Egyptian Shumba
Will Stos wrote:
> 2) A couple of years ago Michael "Doc Rock" Kelly was kind enough to
> send me a mix tape with "Egyptian Shumba" by the Tammys on it. I
> haven't listened to it in a long time, and when I heard the version
> on Girls Go Zonk it sounded almost identical. Was it just a slightly
> different vocal take? Hoe similar does it sound to the Lou Christie
> and the Tammys' cd comp?
The Christie/Tammys CD contains two versions of Egyptian Shumba. I'm
told that the version on GGZ is yet a third take, but frankly (and
without bothering to A/B, or in this case A/B/C, them) I can't tell any
of them apart. The Christie/Tammys CD does indicate which was the 45
version.
--Phil M.
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:57:50 EDT
From: David Bell
Subject: The Singing Postman
Kingsley Abbott:
> ... the late Singing Postman here in Norfolk, where the man was/is
> regarded as a god -- still is in some out-of-the-way places where
> they're just getting the electric in. The wonderful Postman's best
> known was 'Hev Yew Gotta Loight Boy' and 'A Miss From Diss' from
> 1964.
Originating from Lincolnshire, with Norfolk only a stone's throw away,
I remember hating the Singing Postman with a vengeance back in the day.
Music was precious in my youth and anything which didn't originate
from the States wasn't worth listening to (with the notable exceptions
of Dusty, Julie Grant and Susan Singer).
Now I've grown up a little, that attitude now seems so callow, shallow
and claustrophobic and Alan Wotsisname, aka the Singing Postman, brings
a smile to my face with his hokey accent and down home folksiness.
Didn't he finish up in a down and out hostel in Grimsby?
David
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen Andrew
Subject: Re: California Nights / California Dreamin' / Ronald Reagan
Artie Wayne wrote:
> How Ya'll Doin'? In the 60's my partner Kelli Ross and I ran Lesley
> Gore's publishing companies out of 1650 B'way and "California Nights"
> was the last in a long string of her hits. I liked the song personally
> and everytime I heard it, I was drawn more and more to the West Coast.
> When it snowed on Easter, and cancelled out a "Love-In" in Central Park
> I was looking forward to, I sold my interest in Allouette prods. and a
> week later I moved to Hollywood.
The Mamas and the Papas, "California Dreamin'" did it for me. Growing up
in the midwest, I got so sick of the "All the leaves are brown and the
sky is grey" and couldn't wait to get to Calif. Of course, out there I
had to deal with that horrible stinky smog and Santa Ana winds but it was
well worth the 19 years I lived out there! Thanks to the Mamas and the
Papas and the songwriters/producers/etc of that song!
The S'pop Team wrote:
> Today sees the funeral of Ronald Reagan. And how does this statement
> in any way qualify as on-topic, you may wonder. Visit David A.
> Young's "Please Phil Spector: His Subjects Pay Homage - Part 7: What
> Was The Question?", scroll down to the ninth item on the list, and
> all will be revealed: http://www.spectropop.com/PPS/PPSpart7.htm
> Furthermore, the track in question is currently playing @ musica:
> http://tinyurl.com/26xzy R.I.P.
Thanks for a good laugh as I've been depressed the last few days with
the overdone pomp and circumstance of King Ronald's funeral, etc. I
truly believe he should have had a large funeral as befits a former
president, but this was ridiculous! We're in the United States, for
God's sake! And the media (and I work in "the media"!) made it worse!
Now everyone is scared that another ex-pres. will kick the bucket
before we can recover from this one. Anyway, thanks for the laugh!
Karen
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen Andrew
Subject: Re: Timothy redux
Phil, I so appreciate your post! Over the years, everytime I brought
up this song, no one knew what I was talking about and no one could
believe it was about cannabalism. But, I knew! I love it that they
were producing a song that would be banned! It was not banned in
Indianapolis (surprise!) - probably WIFE, which is the radio station
I listened to as a teenager. And I'm glad the author of the article
told us what Holmes did later. I loved his "Escape" and "Him"! Thanks
again for such valuable info!
Karen
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:29:34 EDT
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Lesley's Off and Running! ! !
BTW last week I heard Lesley Gore's "Off and Running" for the first
time on the CD Golden Hits comp which I think was taken directly
from one of her original comp LPs. Was this an album track from
around '67 or '68? Maybe a single that never made it to the Hot 100?
Same tune as The Mindbenders did in "To Sir, With Love" and she does
a terrific job with it.
Bobster
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:13:12 -0400
From: Tom Diehl
Subject: Re: Ronnie Dove
Previously:
> http://www.ronniedove.com ...[H]e was still performing as of this
> time last year. He's got the pics here to prove it:
> http://www.angelfire.com/md3/tomdiehl1/dove.html
> And sadly, man, does he look old (and does the audience look older!).
> WE're not that old, are we?!??!?
Well, I was 18 at the time....definitely brought the average age of the
audience members down a few decades.....there were mostly people over
60 there....which is average for a Ronnie Dove concert, honestly...I
have a cassette of one where a guy was celebrating his 80th birthday on
that day.
Tom
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:07:00 +0200
From: Frank Jastfelder
Subject: Re: Americanized Bossa Nova
Previously:
> ...any info on why The Carnival's version of Jeffrey Comanor's "A
> Famous Myth" is called "One Bright Night" on the record's label?
On my copy of the original Carnival record it´s called "A Famous Myth"
on the backcover and on the label. Or do you mean the CD reissue?
Frank J
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:29:30 EDT
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: R'n'R Hall Of Fame
Karen Andrew writes:
> Oh boy, what a disappointment that Hall of Fame sounds like! I've
> been wanting to go, but it's a long drive from Cincinnati and I'd
> have to stay over a few days. Now, I'm wondering if it would be
> worth it! I'll probably still go but will keep your comments in
> mind. You raise some good questions and points, and if they can't
> include The Doors and Jackie Wilson, why is it called Rock and Roll
> Hall of Fame?
Just to clarify, The Doors and Jackie Wilson are both Hall of Fame
inductees--there just isn't much of anything on display about them.
If you view it as a museum (a distinction a Spectropopper has already
made), then it's not a disappointment and is worth driving 4 hours. I
am a rock & roll nut and I spent two 4-hour sessions there on
consecutive days and saw everything I wanted. You could spend more
time there playing with all the kiosks, but most of that stuff can
probably be accessed now over the internet.
John Fox (also in Cincinnati)
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:30:48 -0400
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: compulsory rate
Joe Nelson wrote:
> Strangely, I was always under the impression songwriting was "the
> thing", because your royalty payments were set in stone legally (i.e.
> not negotiable) ...
Publishing royalties are actually VERY negotiable. The "compulsory"
(aka "statutory") rate only kicks in if the publisher chooses not to
negotiate, and yet the artist and label (who are in a collaborative
position in this situation) persist in wanting to use the song anyway.
Since there are few songs that artists/labels feel SO strongly about
that they're willing to pay full price for -- especially since, in most
cases, they're the ones holding the power (i.e., "You won't cut us in
for a 50% split? Fine. There's plenty of other songs out there we could
use instead."), it is in fact rare for the compulsory rate to be the one
that is used.
FYI, the compulsory rate is different from a "mechanical royalty," which
is a standard rate that, in essence, grants permission for an
artist/label to record a song that's already been recorded and released.
The mechanical is a flat, one-time-only fee, whereas the publishing
royalty is on a per-record-sold basis. Because the mechanical fee is not
terribly expensive, and because it goes through a third party (Harry Fox
Agency), this rate is not negotiated.
All the above, of course, applies only to the U.S. Also, since I've
never actually worked in the biz, I realize I am speaking out of turn
here, but nobody else seemed to be biting at the question. I trust one
of the pros in the S'pop membership will correct any errors I might've
made!
--Phil M.
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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:08:49 -0700
From: Richard Globman
Subject: Take My Heart
Simon Asked:
> Can anyone out there in Spectropopland (or possibly Canada) shed
> some light on the Quality 45 "Take My Heart" by Mary Saxton? It
> shares an almost identical backing track to "Be Young....", yet with
> an entirely different set of lyrics. Who was Ms Saxton, and how did
> the writers of "Take My Heart" get away with it?
Sort of a simple answer: "Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy" and "Take My
Heart (It's Yours If You Want It)" are the same song and Ray Whitely
(who wrote a lot of The Tams' hits) has the writing credit for both
songs.
I know that The Tams' version comes from 1968 (The Sensational Epics'
version came from one or two years earlier). I'm not sure when Mary
Saxton recorded her version.
DickyG
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:41:18 +0100
From: S'pop Team
Subject: Ray Charles, R.I.P.
Dear Members,
For your convenience; a compendium of recent posts on the subject
of Ray Charles:
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There are only a select few artists who leave a really individual
fingerprint. Ray Charles is high on that list. So many of us learned
so much of what we do from Ray. Even though we never sat down and
said officially that we were going to try to copy him when we were
younger, his fingerprint is all over us. He was that special and
important. I had the good fortune of spending a few social evenings
with him over the years. We talked about music, life and more music.
He had a great sense of humor. I never did get to work with him and
it was my loss. Rest in peace Ray, and thanks for what you have given
us all.
Artie Butler
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Artie Wayne:
> Ray Charles has been here for so long it's hard to remember a time
> when he wasn't around.
Yes, and I loved his versions of "Yesterday" and "Eleanor Rigby".
gem
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What a voice! And what a perfect meeting of voice, song, and
arrangement is I CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU.
Rodney Rawlings
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Country Paul:
> I hope he gets the recognition he's due despite dying during Ronald
> Reagan Memorial Week here in the US.
I felt the same way. His death got buried, so-to-speak. But in the
turnabout-is-fair-play category, the same thing happened in August of
1977, when both Bing Crosby and Groucho Marx died shortly after Elvis,
and got lost in the shuffle.
John Fox
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> He told the naysayers that it doesn't matter what genre of music
> he's singing because: "When I sing, I sing Ray Charles."
> A summary statement if ever there was one.
As a fellow artist I can only say that Ray Charles was truly one of
our all-time greats. His rendition of "Georgia On My Mind" has never,
will never and could never be topped. He will be forever missed and
his loss will be felt by all his fans everywhere in the entire world.
You may be gone, Ray, but your voice will live on forever.
Ed Rambeau
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