Spectropop - Digest Number 1551

• From: Spectropop Group
• Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004

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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 18 messages in this issue.


Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone" / Righteous Brothers
           From: Peter Richmond 
      2. Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone"
           From: Bill George 
      3. Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone" / Myddle Class
           From: Kevin Kern 
      4. Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone"
           From: Mike Carter 
      5. Ping pong
           From: Joe Nelson 
      6. Brian on TV?
           From: Phil X Milstein 
      7. Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"
           From: Mark A. Johnston 
      8. Re: "Witchy Tai To"
           From: Orion 
      9. Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well" / Which Wilson?
           From: James Cassidy 
     10. Re: Jerry Cole vocals?
           From: John Berg 
     11. Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"
           From: Bob Hanes 
     12. Re: Continental Drifters
           From: Bill George 
     13. Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     14. Re: "Witchy Tai To"
           From: Steve Harvey 
     15. Re: This Diamond Demo / Carole King demos
           From: Mike Carter 
     16. Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well" / Witchy Tai To
           From: Brent Cash 
     17. Re: The Sandpipers: Florida's answer to the Shangri-Las
           From: Mick Patrick 
     18. Dean Christie, Andy Rose, Clyde Stacy
           From: Mick Patrick 


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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 15:31:06 +0100
   From: Peter Richmond 
Subject: Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone" / Righteous Brothers

Don wrote:
> Thank you to Mike Carter and Mick Patrick for this wonderful demo.
> Besides the demo, the song has been done several times, including:
> The Righteous Brothers

Don, the Righteous Brothers have never had a version of "I Can't Make 
It Alone" released, Bill Medley's first solo single on MGM after the 
breakup of the Righteous Brothers was a version of the song, this has 
been included on several compilations including the definitive Rhino 
Righteous Brothers "Anthology".

Bobby Hatfield recorded an unissued version of the song in March 1968 
for Verve and there is evidence (Gold Star/Philles Records invoices) 
to suggest that the Righteous Brothers were planning to record (or did 
record) the song while at Philles but it is unclear exactly what stage 
the sessions got to. This will be included on my website sometime in 
the near future.

Mick asked:
> Request's for Carole King demos...

What about that brilliant song "A Man Without A Dream" and also "On 
This Side Of Goodbye".

Peter

Righteous Brothers Discography http://freespace.virgin.net/p.richmond/



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Message: 2         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 15:20:34 EDT
   From: Bill George 
Subject: Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone"

Ask and ye shall receive! Thanks for posting Carole King's demo 
of "I Can't Make It Alone" to musica! Now, please forgive my 
ignorance, but this sounds like it was arranged with the Righteous 
Brothers in mind. Did they ever record it?

Bill



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Message: 3         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 15:30:10 -0400
   From: Kevin Kern 
Subject: Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone" / Myddle Class

Don wrote about "I Can't Make It Alone":
> Besides the demo, the song has been done several times, including:
> The Myddle Class

Can it be? I thought the Myddle Class released only the three singles 
below, and "Lovin Season" on the Buddah 1970 promo album. (And acted 
as instrumental backup on the Bach's Lunch 45.) Do you have label info 
for "I Can't Make It Alone"?

Gates Of Eden/Free As The Wind  	
Don't Let Me Sleep Too Long/I Happen To Love You
Wind Chime Laughter/Don't Look Back

Thanks,
Kevin Kern



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Message: 4         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:48:03 -0000
   From: Mike Carter 
Subject: Re: Carole King's "I Can't Make It Alone"

Andy wrote:
> Add to the list of those who have recorded "I Can't Make It Alone" 
> Diana Ross & the Supremes (on the "Reflections" LP Motown MS-665, 
> 1968]. An additional note: the lead singer in the version by the 
> Continental Drifters was a 34 year old Susan Cowsill.

Watch it!  The song on Diana Ross and The Supremes "Reflections"
album, though a highlight of that album (I like many of the Supremes'
albums tracks) is NOT the Goffin and King song, "I Can't Make It Alone".

Now, The Continental Drifters with Susan Cowsill singing is a great
version of the G/K tune.  I'm amazed that they unearthed it.  And Bill
"Jackie" George mentions the 'speediness' of Maria McKee's version from
the early 90's, which is a favorite of mine also, Bill.  Kinda like
Jackie doing "No Easy Way Down".  It's different, but they have nailed
the song!

Mike C.



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Message: 5         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 10:38:32 -0400
   From: Joe Nelson 
Subject: Ping pong

Phil Milstein:
> More seriously, I assume you played three different instruments via 
> the miracle of overdubbing, yet it surprises me to learn of much in 
> the way of multi-track decks being used at demo studios as early as 
> 1963. Did they use sound-on-sound ("ping-pong")?

Al Kooper:
> I was always the ping pong champ at A Schroeder Music. Jack of all 
> trades, master of none at the time, I'd take a shot at ANY instrument 
> to get a job done. 99% of all our demos were cut at Regent Sound 
> owned by Bob Lifton. This was at 25 W56th Street in NYC as Schroeder 
> had the Penthouse and Regent, I believe the 3rd Floor. In the early 
> 60's, there were no multi-track machines in MY life. Bill Szymczyk 
> was the engineer on many of my demos. This is where we first forged 
> our friendship.

Now a chance to try to get some professional insight from those who
were there...

I'd always assumed ping-ponging was a reference to sound-on-sound
overdubbing - live mixing of track one with a live performance
recorded onto track two. (This as opposed to sound-with-sound, the
preferred method in which the tracks are laid down in parallel on the
same tape, seperately and in synch (since the record and playpack
heads are seperate and a delay would occur if you based what you were
recording on what the PB was picking up). Ping-ponging would also
refer to a multi-track being submixed (i.e. a four track with three of
the tracks being bounced down to the fourth to make more space),
although I'm not sure this applies to reduction remixing (in which the
tracks are remixed to a second tape, multi or otherwise).

In the US in the early sixties, most recording was done on three track
tape. The layouts tended to be rhythm section on one, lead vocal on
two, and backing vocals and orchestra on three. I find it hard to
imagine the background singers and orchestra being taped
simultaneously, so I can picture the rhythm, BGV's and orchestra taped
first, remixed to wide stereo (either direct to a second three track
or to a stereo machine which was then transfered back to 3T for evn
more tape hiss).

EXCEPT.... on much R&R from those days the lead vox were double
tracked - manually. So now we're up to five tracks derived from three.
Clearly some live mixing was done somewhere, or something got
compromised. Anyone got any direct memories of how the recording was
done in those days? Was it common for studios to have more than one
3T?

Joe Nelson
(trying to picture Regent without 3T in 1963...)



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Message: 6         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 10:55:39 -0400
   From: Phil X Milstein 
Subject: Brian on TV?

Anyone know what become of Brian Wilson's scheduled appearance on Larry
King Live June 30? I tuned in, only to be met with an entire hour of
kibbitzing over the Scott Peterson case. For better or worse, Brian was
not among the talking heads depositing his two cents on that topic.

--Phil M.



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Message: 7         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 11:20:22 -0400
   From: Mark A. Johnston 
Subject: Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"

Phil Milstein:
> Who is the lead singer on "She Knows Me Too Well"? I have trouble
> discerning Brian's voice from Carl's.

I always thought this was Brian, as well as on "Please Let Me Wonder." 
Both are direct predecessors of Pet Sounds to me and could have sat on 
that album without question.



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Message: 8         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:11:22 -0500
   From: Orion 
Subject: Re: "Witchy Tai To"

Haper's Bizarre had a version of it also. It is really not bad. I think 
maybe Cryan Shames did also but am not sure.

Orion





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Message: 9         
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 13:57:01 -0400
   From: James Cassidy 
Subject: Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well" / Which Wilson?

In a further response to Phil M's question:

Amazingly, Carl Wilson sang only 4 lead vocals ("Louie, Louie," "Pom 
Pom Playgirl," "Girl Don't Tell Me," "God Only Knows") on the Beach 
Boys' first dozen or so albums (1962-66).  Hard to believe that someone 
that gifted vocally was only a background singer for so long.  Whether 
because of Brian's retirement from the road, his retreat to his 
bedroom, or the realization that Carl was a great singer, the number of 
Carl leads goes up significantly after "Pet Sounds."

I can usually tell Carl from Brian.  But sometimes I have a problem 
with Brian and Al Jardine.  It wasn't until a couple of years ago that 
I finally found out that AJ (not Brian) sang most of the verses on "I 
Know There's An Answer" (Mike Love sings the first line of each verse 
and Brian takes over on the chorus).

Jim Cassidy



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Message: 10        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:52:23 EDT
   From: John Berg 
Subject: Re: Jerry Cole vocals?

Jerrry Cole is also the vocalist on the first of two albums by "Them" 
on the Happy Tiger label, circa 1969.  He is credited also with guitar. 
(By the time of that LP, origianl Them bass player Alan Henderson was 
the sole member left and held the rights to the name.  Three other 
members went to form "Truth", cutting an album's worth of tracks that 
sat unissued until 1995 when Epilogue Records compiled them on CD.  
Other Them members were in the Belfast Gypsies,  Taste, Camel and 
sundry other combos right up 'til now.)

John Berg 



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Message: 11        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:20:38 -0700
   From: Bob Hanes 
Subject: Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"

Phil M:
> Who is the lead singer on "She Knows Me Too Well"? I have trouble
> discerning Brian's voice from Carl's.

....only Brian and maybe Carl would've been agreeable, to singing the
words of that song, at that time in the history of the world, and in
the maturation of the individual Beach Boys. Carl had just done another 
very male ego exposing song on the Summer Days (& Nights) album.  Girl 
Don't Tell Me.   I think it was probably Brian's turn. Mike always was 
all about machismo, these "new" songs musta freaked him out.

The Right Reverend Bob, 
dumb angel chapel, Church of the Harmonic Overdub




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Message: 12        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 15:25:14 EDT
   From: Bill George 
Subject: Re: Continental Drifters

Previously:
> The Continental Drifters, though, seemed to break up concomitant 
> with the break-up of Suzy's marriage to fellow band member Peter 
> Holsapple.

As far as I know, the Continental Drifters are still together. They 
are just on a sabbatical while Vicki Peterson tours with the Bangles 
(which may be over by now).

Bill



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Message: 13        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:53:37 +0100
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well"

Phil M:
> Who is the lead singer on "She Knows Me Too Well"? I have trouble
> discerning Brian's voice from Carl's.

It's Brian. Carl only took a handful of lead vocals (Pom Pom Playgirl,
Girl Don't Tell Me, the unreleased All Dressed Up For School and IIRC
Summertime Blues) before Pet Sounds, and it was only on Smiley Smile
that he really came into his own.



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Message: 14        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Steve Harvey 
Subject: Re: "Witchy Tai To"

Charles wrote:
> I've always loved the hit version of "Witchy Tai To" by Everything 
> Is  Everything...

Witcha Tai To is the title. It's an Indian phrase, nothing to do with 
Witchita either. I agree that the Everything Is Everything (of which 
Jim Pepper was a member) is the best version. The Harper's Bizarre
version is good, but doesn't spring to life the way Pepper's versions 
do.



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Message: 15        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:16:16 -0000
   From: Mike Carter 
Subject: Re: This Diamond Demo / Carole King demos

Phil X Milstein wrote: 
> Carole's own master version of "Bad Boy" sounds sort of demo-ish to
> me.  Not that I'm expecting an earlier version to appear, but does
> anyone know if the release version was in fact (or at least developed
> from) the demo?

Surely "He's A Bad Boy" was a demo turned master.  So many of them
were.  Sounds like it to me.  Interestingly, I own the Screen Gems
acetate of Carole King's song "Home Again" (the song recorded on
"Tapestry" ....sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it... )and to
my suprise when I unwrapped it and played it I heard the exact same
version of the song that appeared on "Tapestry".  I think King's been
making demos turned masters for years.  Perhaps this is just one way
she does/did it.

Awhile ago I know Mick Patrick unearthed a version of Goffin and
King's "School Bells Are Ringing" by The Rocky Fellers and included it
as a hidden bonus track on the WESTSIDE cd "The Rocky Fellers: Look At
Killer Joe Go" and I swear if that's not Carole King singing another
take of her version I'll.. I'll...well Mick'll post another demo to
musica.

I wanna thank (this) Al Kooper for the demo of This Diamond Ring. 
What a fine, fine, super fine treat!  More, please!

Mike C.




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Message: 16        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:23:46 -0000
   From: Brent Cash 
Subject: Re: Beach Boys' "She Knows Me Too Well" / Witchy Tai To

Phil M.:
> Who is the lead singer on "She Knows Me Too Well"? I have trouble
> discerning Brian's voice from Carl's.

Charles Ulrich:
> According to the liner notes of The Beach Boys Today, it's Brian.

Supposedly, Carl's first lead wouldn't happen until later in '65 on 
"Girl Don't Tell Me". Talk about "holding back"!

Also, because of spelling, this barely fits the "Witchy" thread, but,
does anyone else dig "Bird Has Flown" from UK great John Schroeder's 
Witchi-Tai-To LP?

Best wishes,
Brent Cash



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Message: 17        
   Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:45:05 +0100
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: Re: The Sandpipers: Florida's answer to the Shangri-Las

Howard wrote:
> ...Soul Up North #43 is now available. This issue includes
> a great article from 'Spectropopper' Jeff Lemlich on the
> Sandpipers...

Jeff Lemlich:
> I should mention this is not the "Guantanamera" Sandpipers,
> but the group of 13 & 14-year-olds that appeared on Tru-
> Glo-Town. They were Florida's answer to the Shangri-Las...

Me::
> OK, I'm sold. My two quid is in the mail. In the meantime,
> Jeff, any chance of a Sandpipers track appearing @ musica?
> Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeze. There's room at present.

Jeff:
> Now playing in Musica is "Ballad To A Missing Lover" by 
> the Sandpipers, which includes an emotional recitation by 
> 13-year-old Debbie Kilpatrick: "You didn't leave cause you 
> wanted to, and that is why I pray and pray for you". In 
> case anyone is wondering what happened to Debbie's lover, 
> the answer is in the article (and so is the identity of her 
> boyfriend at the time. He is someone you have heard of.)

Thanks Jeff, what a great read. Congratulations on a truly 
excellent article. Serious girl group fans neeeeeeeed this 
issue of Soul Up North. Email editor Howard for price details:
soulupnorthhfe@aol.com

And thanks for making the group's "Ballad To A Missing Lover" 
available @ musica. It was even better than I was hoping for 
- like the Shangri-Las meet the Toys. In fact, I liked it so 
much that when I happened upon a copy for sale at a northern 
soul event in Cleethorpes (*), I threw caution to the wind and 
bought it. It cost an arm and a leg. To my delight, the other 
side turns out to be as good, if not better. As a treat for 
those who have not heard it, I have posted the track to musica:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/

Details are:

The Sandpipers "All Over But The Crying" (Tru-Glo-Town 502, 
1966). Written by Jesse Herring, Jr. and Ed Townsend. 
Produced by Ed Townsend.

It would be great to hear some of the group's other recordings.
Any chance, Jeff?

Hey la,

Mick Patrick

* I went to see the Diplomats perform live. Maybe more on that 
and the group's CD another time.



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Message: 18        
   Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:33:18 +0100
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: Dean Christie, Andy Rose, Clyde Stacy

I'm hoping some kind soul can help me with a little biographical 
info on three one (small) hit wonders from the early-'60s and 
late-'50s:

Dean Christie: had a hit in 1962 with "Heartbreaker", an 
excellent Dion soundalike.

Andy Rose: "Just Young" 1958.

Clyde Stacy: "So Young", hit the charts in 1957 and again 
in '59.

I seem to have drawn a blank on all three artists, so any 
assistance will be very gratefully received. Thanks.

Hey la,

Mick Patrick



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