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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 22 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: no-strings demos?
From: Bill George
2. Re: John Summers - Ripples
From: Kingsley Abbott
3. Bernard "Pretty" Purdie
From: Frank Murphy
4. Re: Peter James: is he P.J. Proby?
From: Martin Roberts
5. Re: Surreptitious Rock Stars?
From: Phil X Milstein
6. Re: Brooklyn Bridge / Plus Shirley Alston Reeves
From: Fred Clemens
7. Nina & Frederik
From: Dan Hughes
8. Re: Session musicians - Bernard Purdie
From: Mikey
9. John Hartford
From: Karen Andrew
10. Re: Gene Pitney demos
From: Gary Myers
11. Reissues; Shirley Abicair; Prophets of Old; short stuff
From: Country Paul
12. Re: AUTUMN & Mercer
From: Chris
13. Re: Surreptitious Rock Stars?
From: Andrew Hickey
14. Erm . . . meMeME ! :-)
From: Bill
15. Nina & Frederik
From: Andrew Hickey
16. Carole King & Gerry Goffin's "Don't You Want To Love Me, Baby"
From: Mick Patrick
17. Nina & Frederik
From: Ken Silverwood
18. Re: Reissue series of the '70s
From: Alan Warner
19. Re: Quarteto Em Cy
From: Frank Jastfelder
20. Re: Marlon Brando and his influence on pop music:
From: Alan "Albabe" Gordon
21. Re: Myddle Class
From: Phil X Milstein
22. Re: PacWest reissues
From: Phil X Milstein
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 17:29:33 EDT
From: Bill George
Subject: Re: no-strings demos?
Richard H. writes:
> I guess the strings were put on after though, surely they would not
> splash out on strings for a demo.
Not necessarily. Jackie DeShannon's demos got the full treatment:
strings, Wrecking Crew, Darlene Love, et al. I'm sure Carole King had
a similar setup with her company.
Bill
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:30:23 +0100
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Re: John Summers - Ripples
Chris asked (with ref to Ripples):
> So as you mention in the sleevenotes, you mention >"several singles",
> have you managed to track down any of the others? Or do you have any
> discography information about them? I know people who work/worked for
> PRS and have access to the sound archive, if I can get some detailed
> information such as record name, label number, it might be possible
> to locate some.
We used two Summers tracks on Ripples, both sides of his first single -
Looking In Windows on Vol 2 'Dreamtime' and Don't Fool Yourself on Vol
8 'Butterfly'. Here is the fullest info I have at present -
Looking In Windows/Don't Fool Yourself - Pye 7n 15918 (8/65)
Be Sure/Just Say We'll Still Be Friends - Pye 7n 17030 (1/66)
That's A Magic Moment/One Day - Pye 7n 17081 (4/66)
It is possible I have the latter songs on a cassette or CDR here from
the material I had when compiling, but it would take a while to plough
back through! Another obscure summery voice I particularly liked for
Ripples was James Galt - Comes The Dawn on Vol 3 Autumn Almanac, and
With My Baby on Vol 8. When we started the series, I was trying to aim
at the soft harmonious vocals epitomised by the Critters, Association
et al.
Kingsley
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 21:38:24 +0000
From: Frank Murphy
Subject: Bernard "Pretty" Purdie
Previously:
> ...what do you think of (Bernard Purdie's) claim of playing on some
> Beatles records?
Bear Family reissued the Beatles polydor session on CD a couple of years
and in a review in Record Collector it was explained that the recordings
were "beefed" up for reissue in the States. Bernard Purdie was dubbed
over Pete Best's drumming. Cornell duprre played guitar and Ain't She
Sweet and My Bonnie was released on Atco.
FrankM
reflections on northern soul Saturday's two thirty pm:
http://www.radiomagnetic.com or listen to an archive show:
http://www.radiomagnetic.com/archive/rnb.php
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:11:41 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: Re: Peter James: is he P.J. Proby?
Ash asked,
> I need clarification that PETER JAMES IS INDEED P.J PROBY. If anyone
> can tell me so or tell me who Peter James is, that would be
> fantastic. He sure sounds like PJ to me.
Good to see Mike post, as he says this subject was covered in some detail
awhile back. It made a great story but...
The only copies of "Stage Door"/"People Say" anyone seemed to own were
UK Reprise demos. These came without producer or arranger credits. Since
then I've found a USA copy and the producer is none other than Andrew
Loog Oldham. If the 45 was recorded while PJ was singed to Liberty and
living in in England, this surely this would confirm his dual-identity.
That is unless ALO recorded the 45 in the US. Which upon checking Stoned2
is what happened. Andrew would have mentioned in his account of producing
the singer in LA the fact that Peter was P.J. Proby if he was. There can
be no doubt that these two vocalists are similarly voiced and have
similar initials. Shame.
Martin
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:17:04 -0400
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: Surreptitious Rock Stars?
Dan Hughes wrote:
> I saw a photo this morning of John Kerry and John Edwards on the front
> page of USA Today. Kerry: tall, slim, serious; and Edwards: short,
> baby-faced, smiling--and it hit me, these guys are the Righteous
> Brothers!
And Kerry's head is as long as Bill Medley's. Have we mentioned here yet
that Kerry already was a bit of a rockstar? See
http://www.kerryrocks.com for the grisly details.
> So who would Bush and Cheney be if they were rock stars??
Jake & Elwood.
--Phil M.
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:41:45 -0000
From: Fred Clemens
Subject: Re: Brooklyn Bridge / Plus Shirley Alston Reeves
Country Paul wrote:
> Interesting 4th of July weekend - before the fireworks on the night
> of the 3rd, I saw (at a great distance) The Happenings... Then the
> night of the 4th, the "warm-up" to the pyrotechnics was Johnny
> Maestro & The Brooklyn Bridge!
I was at the Brooklyn Bridge show July 4th. Their songs were
totally "Amazing"! I was right up front, directly in front of the
speakers on the left side. (I was duely warned about the sound, but
I stuck it out for the duration. Don't ask me why.) The only tune I
didn't care for was their rendition of the Beach Boys "Good
Vibrations". The music was good, but Johnny's voice, as great as it
is, couldn't carry off the vocals on the high end. (Or maybe it was
my hearing by that time).
My anticipation was for the Crests tunes, especially "Step By Step".
Their live arrangement (and choreography) of it blows me away every
time I hear it (it hasn't changed in the last 10 years). "My
Juanita" and "Isn't It Amazing" are other favorites. "16 Candles"
followed "Step By Step" (as expected), after which Johnny announced
birthdays from members of the v a s t audience.
I picked up their double CD before the show began, which I was told
was the original recordings (I asked). But, as I suspected, they
were re-recordings. I already have most of their original records
anyway (plus on CD), so I wasn't disappointed. I only wish they
would have used the LIVE stuff instead of recording studio takes, as
the LIVE stuff sounds so much better.
So where were you, Paul...?
Saturday night found me at the Meadowlands Race Track with Bob
Shannon. Shirley Alston Reeves was appearing. I was expecting
mediocre, and got GREAT. I'd never seen her sing live before, so my
expectations weren't all that good. But her take on her Shirelles
Hits were just as awesome as in her days with the Shirelles. She
also focused on other tunes, most notably those by Sam Cooke. She
noted one of her personal favorites as "You Send Me". She also paid
tribute to the other original Shirelles, of which (sadly) only one
still survives (Beverly Lee). An all around great show.
Fred Clemens
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 06:41:14 -0500
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Nina & Frederik
Phil asked about Baron and Baroness Nina & Frederick.
Here's a one-paragraph bio:
http://www.hasmick.demon.co.uk/jasmine300/jascd_373.htm
Two of their albums (one with Louis Armstrong!) were released in the
USA on Atco in 1967: http://www.vinyl-records.biz/NinaFrederik.htm
Photo of the cover of one of the Atco albums:
http://www.swinging-flensburg.de/ninaundfre-big4.html
They even have their own tribute group:
http://www.ninaandfrederick.co.uk/index.php
You can buy their albums here:
http://www.hasmick.demon.co.uk/jasmine300/jascd_383.htm
and here: http://tinyurl.com/26emj
---Dan
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:33:46 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Session musicians - Bernard Purdie
Eddy...
I do not think that Purdie was talking about the Sgt Pepper
Movie Soundtrack.
Rather, it is documented that Purdie overdubbed drums on the
ATCO version of "Aint She Sweet". Also 3 other songs at the
session, altho not Beatles songs, but Tony Sheridan stuff.
THIS is what I think the hoopla is all abvout:
It has been confirmed by former executives who were present
that Capitol Records, after deciding to spend 100,000$ on
Promoting "Meet The Beatles" had a series of meetings to
discuss whether the Beatles sound would click with AM radio
programmers. Probably, they just didnt want to take any
chances at all that it wouldnt.
The executives MAY have called Purdie in to overdub all the
tracks they had in their possesion with a "studio" drum
sound. No one can argue that Ringos sound was loose, and more
of a "live" sound. They may have been worried about this.
As Purdie was one of the top sessions drummers around, it
makes total sense. That has always been Purdies claim, that
he WENT INTO THE STUDIO and did this. Whether his versions
were what was released is the question. Its VERY possible
that Brian Epstien, George Martin, Len Wood (head of EMI) or
all three heard of this scheme and demanded the overdubbed
tapes be scrapped.
Scenarios like this happened ALL the time in the frentic
music business of the 1960s. With 100,000 on the line, its
fair to think that Capitol didnt want to take chances. Thats
why so many groups were never allowed to play on their own
records.....because the 45 stood a better chance of "hitting"
(and recouping the studio costs) with session guys doing the
backing and not a bunch of green 20 year olds.
As for Purdie, I've heard all the bashing of this gentleman,
and it makes no sense. Ask yourself this question: This was a
top call, experienced, and well respected Session guy who
played on hundreds of hit records. Why would he lie about
playing on Beatles records and tarnish his reputation?
Answer....he Wouldnt!!!
I believe Purdie DID in fact overdub drums on the 21 tracks
as he says........but I also believe that most of his
versions were never released. One or two may have slipped out
tho. We may never know.
Mikey
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen Andrew
Subject: John Hartford
Country Paul wrote:
> John Hartford was indeed a mega-talent - and a true gentleman. I'm
> glad to have known him.
I hope this was not already a discussion subject, but I wanted to put
in my two cents about John Hartford. Cincinnati has a festival on the
Ohio River every three years in Oct., Tall Stacks. I used to live in
Covington, Ky. which is on the opposite bank from Cinti. I lived in
one of the historic districts and lived a block from the river. Back
then, they held Tall Stacks' events on both sides of the river and on
our side, we had free concerts in the little park at the riverside.
John Hartford played at these concerts, for free mine you! One balmy
evening I joined my neighbors under the big old trees, sitting on our
lawnchairs, and listened and watched John and his band. What a treat!
Apparently, he loved the Tall Stacks' event and he shined at this
concert. I don't know what songs he sang, except for "Gentle on My
Mine", but everything he did was superb. I'm sorry he's gone and sorry
we'll never see him at the Tall Stacks again!
Karen
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:55:14 -0700
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Gene Pitney demos
Al Kooper:
> There was no reason for Gene to play drums on a recording. Piano and
> to a lesser degree guitar were his forte ...
I recall something (some liner notes, I think) stating that he played
several instruments, including drums, however when he briefly played
my drums at the rehearsal we did (for our gig backing him), it sounded
like he really didn't play that much. He did play guitar on "If I
Didn't Have A Dime" in the show.
gem
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 01:23:05 -0400
From: Country Paul
Subject: Reissues; Shirley Abicair; Prophets of Old; short stuff
Dan Hughes:
> Mining the music industry's vaults. Reissues on CD -- from superstars'
> vinyl to obscure tracks by obscure artists -- have become a cash cow
> By Randy Lewis / Los Angeles Times:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/events/0406/01/entertainment-170674.htm
Interesting how the concept of CDs killing off obscure music has
completely changed to CDs preserving it. Thank you for the post.
Speaking of reissues, I just got "Goin' Back," the album of Carole
King-Gerry Goffin UK covers that Mick had a hand in. Shirley Abicair's
"So Goes Love" is my new hot favorite of the moment. It is just beautiful!
Did she cut anything else similar to this quality? (From the histories of
her I gleaned from the web, she must have been in her 30s when she sang
the record. I wonder - from any of our UK correspondants - what, if any,
kind of credibility issues did she have in doing a pop record after being
a kiddie-show hostess and "folkie"?) I must say, though, that I think that,
for the most part, the American versions (that I know) of these songs
eclipse most of the UK versions. Maybe that's because I'm a Yank.... (The
Barley-Bree track is sweet, too.)
Charles Ulrich:
> Does anyone know anything about the Prophets Of Old?...I know that
> they gigged in Los Angeles circa 1969, and that they covered the
> Mothers Of Invention's "Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder".
> I've heard this recording, but I don't even know the date or label.
Never heard of them. Did they do it as a "straight doo-wop" or with the
Zappa-esque satire?
Short stuff:
Me earlier:
> In other news, there's a Brian Wilson interview in the magazine section
> of Sunday (July 4)'s New York Times. Haven't read it yet, but will
It's a little one-page Q&A. Nothing new is revealed.
Phil Milstein:
> The full set of [Terry Gordon's] criteria, which is detailed at
> http://rcs.law.emory.edu/rcs/criteria.htm , makes his point abundantly
> clear, and is a hilarious read to boot. I've truly never seen anything
> quite like it.
He's creating his own genre. Very funny stuff - sort of an "Elvisometer"!
Syreeta Wright, R.I.P. Thanks for bringing this sad note to our attention,
Mick. (Bill Reed, nice personal note; thanks for sharing it.)
Country Paul
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris
Subject: Re: AUTUMN & Mercer
Me:
> at this point [Johnny Mercer] was writing English words for Brel's
> "Autumn Leaves"
As long as I'm correcting other people, I might as well correct myself.
It wasn't Brel who wrote the French original of "Autumn Leaves." It
was Joseph Kosma (frequent composer for director Jean Renoir) and poet-
scenarist Jacques Prevert.
*Mille pardons*,
c.
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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 13:42:01 +0100
From: Andrew Hickey
Subject: Re: Surreptitious Rock Stars?
Previously:
> I saw a photo this morning of John Kerry and John Edwards on the
> front page of USA Today. Kerry: tall, slim, serious; and Edwards:
> short, baby-faced, smiling--and it hit me, these guys are the
> Righteous Brothers! Can't you see it? If they lose the election
> they can do "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' '04." Betcha Kerry
> can hit those low notes as Edwards shows off his sparkling upper
> range.
Of course, if you *really* want to hear Kerry's musical 'talents'
you should visit http://www.electrasrockandrollband.com/ which has
30 second MP3s and a CD for sale of his high-school garage band...
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 17:06:20 -0000
From: Bill
Subject: Erm . . . meMeME ! :-)
Here's an article about meMeME that just appeared on the net:
http://blogcritics.org/straightup/2004/07/09/index.php
Bill
http://www.cllrdr.com
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 12:33:33 +0100
From: Andrew Hickey
Subject: Nina & Frederik
Phil M:
> By the way, anyone know who Nina & Frederick (11-62), a most exotic
> and sophisticated looking duo, were?
Nina And Frederick ( http://www.ninaandfrederick.co.uk/ ) are actually
a tribute act for Nina & Frederik, who I think you mean ;) They did
stuff like Little Donkey and Puff The Magic Dragon, and were sort of a
cheesier, Danish, Peter, Paul & Mary, without the politics, if you can
imagine such a thing.
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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:20:02 +0100
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Carole King & Gerry Goffin's "Don't You Want To Love Me, Baby"
Previously @ S'pop:
> My pal Malcolm Baumgart has a copy of the original Screen Gems
> acetate demo of "Don't You Want To Love Me, Baby", found down
> Portobello Market for a groat. Would anyone like to hear it?
> If so, I could post it to musica.
Mike Carter:
> Ahhh... excuse me, Mr. Patrick? Stop shining that flashlight
> for a moment and put it down and look me straight in the eyes
> and tell me who is singing on this original Screen Gems acetate
> demo of "Don't You Want To Love Me Baby"? Gerry or Cynthia?
> Or perhaps Connie S.? Next -- I'd love to hear it. Now, thank
> your pal! Turn your flashlight back on, fresh batteries are in
> the mail!
Julio Niño:
> I would love to listen to it, Mick.
Don H:
> I would love to hear it play @ musica. This one is not nearly
> as prolific as "I Can't Make It Alone". I've only heard 2
> versions, The Other Two, and Connie Stevens. It was also recorded
> by the Peter Loland Orchestra, but I have not been able to get my
> hands on that one.
Ah, Connie Stevens, one of the finest exponents of the Goffin/King
songbook ever to sing half an inch from a mic, if you ask me.
Anyway, cockers, the demo in question is now playing @ musica. Don't
ask me who's singing - the label credits no performer and I don't
recognize the voices. Although I am quite confident that the young
ladies in question are none of those mentioned above. The accents
sound somewhat unusual. Bright ideas, anyone?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/
Anyway, gotta dash, Bo Selecta is about to start - the rudest show
on TV.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:03:52 +0100
From: Ken Silverwood
Subject: Nina & Frederik
Hey Phil,
You had Dick & Dee Dee and Paul & Paula, we got Nina Frederik and Mikki
& Griff (they got hits with Burl Ives' "A Little Bitty Tear" and Steve
& Eydie's "I Want To Stay Here"). Mikki or was it Griff had a handlebar
moustache you could cycle with. As for N & F they were European
aristocrats who had fallen on hard times, LOL. I only remember one
record - "Little Donkey" (bleugghh, a perennial Xmas favourite------not).
I hope some kind soul can post a picture to the site of Mikki & Griff
----please.
Ken On The West Coast
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 11:09:42 -0700
From: Alan Warner
Subject: Re: Reissue series of the '70s
Re: Phil X Milstein's overview of United Artists' "Legendary Masters"
series, the derivation of this line goes back to 1968 and a group of
eight albums on Imperial covering Rural Blues (3 volumes), Urban
Blues (2 volumes), Rhythm 'n' Blues (2 volumes) & one album of Gospel
Music.
The UA series began in 1971 with double LP's of Fats Domino, Eddie
Cochran, Ricky Nelson and Jan & Dean. Others which followed included
Bob Wills & Tommy Duncan, Bobby Vee and Shirley & Lee. A companion set
on Little Anthony & The Imperials drawing on tracks from that group's
End, DCP, Veep & United Artists output was prepared but, I don't think
it was ever released while UA in London put together a Ventures edition
but that was not issued in the U.S.
The Legendary Masters logo has since been revived on several occasions
and in different formats within the EMI family.
Rock on!
Alan Warner
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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:23:30 +0200
From: Frank Jastfelder
Subject: Re: Quarteto Em Cy
James, fyi, you can buy a bunch of Elenco 60s LPs on CD over here in
Germany for 10 Euro (that is about 9 dollars) each. They have the
original artwork and are 24Bit remastered. Just try http://www.jpc.de
As far as I know most of the CDs are in stock.
Frank J
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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 12:11:27 -0700
From: Alan "Albabe" Gordon
Subject: Re: Marlon Brando and his influence on pop music:
ACJ:
> Apparently, there was a scene in the film where Lee Marvin talked to
> Brando about the gangs they'd been in before, and one was called the
> Beetles. (I've never seen the film, so I wouldn't know for sure.)
This is mentioned in the Beatles Anthology Video. Sounds like it might
be the real deal. It's been a while since I've watched this movie, but
I always thought that The "Beetles" were the separate girl gang within
the main gang...(?)
peace,
~albabe
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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 18:02:11 +0000
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: Myddle Class
Don wrote:
> I think you can get a copy of the cassette at Al Aronowitz website.
> There are a few other tracks. "Goin'Back", "I Shall Be Released",
> "Lovin Season", "Man On The Bridge" as well as ICMIA. Sorry, I don't
> have any label info. A friend of mine copied it to disc for me.
> http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column83.html
Great article! Thanks for the link. Of course I'm titillated by
Aronowitz's passing reference to the debut gig, opening for the Myddle
Class at a high school in suburban New Jersey, of The Velvet
Underground, but his anecdotes about the antics of the M.C. are side-
splitting.
However, I'll have to muster the strength to forego his offer to sell
transfers of the M.C. album, to a format he doesn't specify (but which
context implies would be another cassette), from his "imperfect"
cassette original, for $35. By the way, he doesn't mention whether the
album, the title of which he identifies as "One Time Only," was ever
properly released -- anyone know?
Also, anyone know what became of the marriage of M.C. bassist Charlie
Larkey and Carole King? They still at it?
--Phil M.
--
Ubi dubium ibi libertas:
"Where there is doubt there is freedom."
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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 17:52:11 +0000
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: PacWest reissues
John Berg wrote:
> In fact Jerden released 4 vinyl "History of Northwest Rock" LPs, and
> more recently they have issued 3 CD comps under the same name. Just
> hard to find if you don't live in the Northwest! I'm looking at the
> CDs on my desk as I write this. The first, released in 1994, has 21
> tracks including "David's Mood, Pt.2" and "Lip Service" by the Dave
> Lewis Trio. The second volume was released in 1999, featuring 22
> tracks and is subtitled "Garage Rock Gems 1963-1967". The third volume
> was released in 2000 and was subtitled "Psychedelic Seattle 1965-1969,
> featuring 22 tracks. Note that these CDs released by Jerry Dennon on
> his Jerden label are all in addition to the similar series released by
> Sundazed and Ace Big Beat -- which Dennon licensed to those labels at
> virtually the same time he was releasing his own!
Where does Norton's relatively recent Pacific NW series fit into this
equation? Anyone know of a good NW discography, at least one that can
help sort out all the archival material? I'd like to fill in some holes
in that area of my collection, but hardly know where to begin.
--Phil M.
--
Ubi dubium ibi libertas:
"Where there is doubt there is freedom."
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