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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: The Cray-ons
From: Mikey
2. Anyone know about this tune?
From: Steve Harvey
3. David Box
From: Phil Hall
4. Gerry & the Georgettes / The Breakaways / Terry Melcher
From: Julio Niño
5. Re: Thee Prophets
From: Clark Besch
6. Re: Bad splices
From: Dave Monroe
7. Musical Saws
From: Clark Besch
8. Hit Avons?
From: Paul Urbahns
9. Re: Thee Prophets
From: S.J. Dibai
10. "You're So Good To Me" Covers
From: S.J. Dibai
11. new album
From: Richard Hattersley
12. Re: "You're So Good To Me" covers
From: Steve Harvey
13. Re: Thee Prophets
From: Gary Myers
14. Re: Monterey musicians
From: Dave Heasman
15. Re: "You're So Good To Me" covers
From: Phil X Milstein
16. Re: Musical Saws
From: Dave Monroe
17. Re: Anyone know about this tune?
From: Various
18. More about the Cray-ons
From: Ian Slater
19. The Beach Boys' "You're So Good To Me"
From: James Botticelli
20. Re: Searchers' "Have You Ever Loved Somebody"
From: Richard Otis
21. Re: Worst drop out on a CD
From: Robert R. Radil
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:18:53 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: The Cray-ons
Stefano, I'm pretty sure the Crayons have never been on Cd. I would
think the Counsel masters still exist tho, somewhere, but who knows?
Mikey
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 07:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Anyone know about this tune?
A question from a pal:
A friend of mine's son is getting married. She wants to play the
song "Turnaround" at his wedding. The only version I have is by the
Kingston Trio on the Time to Think CD. That version is sung from the
perspective of a father to a daughter. My friend is looking for the
opposite perspective--a mother to a son. Does anyone know if this
version exists? It's such a popular song, I'm sure a female singer
has recorded it. Thanks for your help!
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:36:46 -0000
From: Phil Hall
Subject: David Box
I ran across a tune earlier this week by David Box called "If You
Can't Say Something Nice" that sounds so much like Roy Orbison that a
casual listener could easily believe it is, in fact, Roy. For those
who may not be familiar, David Box is the singer on the Cricket's
release of "Peggy Sue Got Married". I know that David had recorded
with Roy Orbison, just months before he died in 1964, ironically also
in a plane crash. Supposedly there is an unreleased recording they
did together of "Maybe Baby". Other than the google stuff, can any of
our knowledgeable Spectropoppers shed any more light on David, and/or
any of the sessions he did with Orbison?
Phil H.
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:34:49 -0000
From: Julio Niño
Subject: Gerry & the Georgettes / The Breakaways / Terry Melcher
Hola Everybody.
I'm listening right now (as I watch my cats playing their favorite
game: they are in ying-yang position and play with each others tails)
to the version of "Quicksand" by Gerry and the Georgettes. I don't
know if they could be The Avons in disguise (they indeed sound as
they could be), but it's a lovely cover. I love the voice of the main
singer, maybe she doesn´t sound as anguished and ultracool as Martha
but she sounds much more innocent. Thank you very much to David Bell
for sharing it with us.
And now that I'm in a thanking mood, I want to to thank also Martin
Roberts for the wonderful article about Terry Melcher and also Mick
and Ian Chapman for the article about the exciting Breakaways, I've
enjoyed both very much.
Chao.
Julio Niño.
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:29:41 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Thee Prophets
S.J. Dibai wrote:
> ... I recently purchased the lone LP by Milwaukee's Thee Prohpets,
> "Playgirl," which came out on Kapp in 1969. Mind you, this was a
> pig in a poke for me, since I'd never even heard the title track,
> which was the group's only national hit--and not even a big one,
> only making #49 on Billboard.
It may have that 66 sound because the original demo of "Playgirl" can
be found on Sundazed's "The Great Lost Knickerbockers Album" Cd.
That's where it started.
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Monroe
Subject: Re: Bad splices
Mikey wrote:
> MY vote for worst tape splice has got to be that hideous edit of
> "Let It Be" for single release. Right in the middle of George's
> guitar solo, that splice is jarring as all hell. And to top it,
> Phil Spector did it!!
Robert Radil:
> Phil Spector did it??? I didn't think he had any involvement with
> the single version. I thought he only got involved with the LP
> remix version.
The 45 version was indeed produced by George Martin.
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:36:59 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Musical Saws
Phil X Milstein wrote:
> As a dabbler on the instrument myself, my ears always perk up
> whenever they detect musical saw (aka "singing saw") on a record.
> Needless to say this doesn't happen all that often ...
Don't know how musical the saw is in it, but you bring to mind a fave
from my childhood, "Thru the Mill", the B-side of Charlie Ryan's "Hot
Rod Lincoln". A lot of fun....Clark
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:38:03 +0000
From: Paul Urbahns
Subject: Hit Avons?
Mick Patrick wrote:
> Having now heard some Jenny & the Jewels tracks, I doubt if that
> group are the Avons after all, although the performances are
> excellent.
Jenny and The Jewels was not a group, but rather session singers. It
is a made-up name for songs that were usually recorded by Diana Ross
and The Supremes. Other group names were made up also.
Paul Urbahns
the Hit man
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:41:43 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Thee Prophets
Gary Myers:
> Actually, they weren't that much hard rock at the beginning, but
> they went that way later, and did not want to record any more of
> the stuff that Bonafede wanted. Thee Prophets are covered in my
> Wisconsin book. ["Fuzz Acid and Flowers"] has my book, and I've
> contributed much other info to them, but their Prophets info may be
> from before all that.
I found the statement from "Fuzz" to which I was referring. Quote:
"The band were wanting to go in a heavier, rock direction (they'd
moved onto playing Cream and Hendrix material in their live shows)
yet the producers and label wanted more teen-pop and bubblegum chart
fodder to cash in on their investment. Bearing this in in mind, it
comes as no surprise that the album doesn't work.
This scenario and the band's full story is recounted by Brian Lake
in Gary Myers' book 'Do You Hear That Beat'. Tied to a five year
contract and having reached an impasse with both producer and label,
the band chose to forego the pleasure of making further recordings
in an incompatible style."
So there you have it! I don't know if this has been updated in the
latest version of "Fuzz," for that is available only in print and I
am quoting from an older, online version.
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:13:10 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: "You're So Good To Me" Covers
Howdy, fellow Spectropoppers. Recently we had Debra Swisher's version
of the Beach Boys' "You're So Good To Me" in musica and it got me
thinking. The BB's never put that one out as an A-side as far as I
know, and with good reason. While it's an immensely catchy song and
the BB's version is fun, it doesn't meet the high standard of
composition and production that they were setting for their A-sides
at the time. Yet, others certainly recognized its appeal and tried to
make a hit out of it. Swisher's wonderfully over-the-top recording is
as stompin' as stompers get, and with a wild vocal to boot. And in
1968, The Kit Kats did it in a relaxed, swinging fashion that makes
me think of the Jersey shore in August every time I hear it. These
admirable, excellent covers make me wonder if there were any other
notable covers of the tune from the Spectropop era, especially those
released as A-sides.
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:45:20 +0000
From: Richard Hattersley
Subject: new album
May I invite Spectropopers to take a listen to my new album "Tuesday
Music" Samples to be found at http://www.cdbaby.com/richardsnow2 or
http://www.notlame.com/CDSNOW5.html or there are some full downloads
at my own site http://www.richardsnow.co.uk
Hope you like 'em ;-)
Richard
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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:05:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: "You're So Good To Me" covers
S.J. Dibai wrote:
> Beach Boys' "You're So Good To Me" The BB's never put that one out
> as an A-side as far as I know, and with good reason. While it's an
> immensely catchy song and the BB's version is fun, it doesn't meet
> the high standard of composition and production that they were
> setting for their A-sides at the time.
As I think I mentioned before I once had a chance to hang out with
Brian Wilson and spin 45s (often at 33 1/3). I did play him the Kit
Kats' version of "You're So Good To Me". Brian said, "Yeah, that
didn't come out the way I wanted it". I said, "Brian, that's the Kit
Kats' version". "I know that," was his reply. Don't know what he was
trying to achieve with that particular tune, but it wasn't what he
wanted.
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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:15:46 -0700
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Thee Prophets
Previously:
> ... what ARE the great Milwaukee 60s records?
Well, I *like* Thee Prophets' LP, so my choices may not resonate with
you, but here are a few:
Bonnevilles - "Johnny"
Destinations - "Hello Girl"
Legends - "Say Mama"
Paul Stefan & Apollos - "Hey Lonely One"
Little Artie & Pharaohs - "Impossible"
Ricochettes - "Come In My Love, Out Of The Rain"
Tony's Tigers - "Little By Little"
S.J. Dibai:
> I found the statement from "Fuzz" to which I was referring. Quote:
> "The band were wanting to go in a heavier, rock direction (they'd
> moved onto playing Cream and Hendrix material in their live shows)
Yes, that's correct. It wasn't that they were originally a hard rock
band that the producers changed, it was that they had developed in
that direction in the meantime.
> ... yet the producers and label wanted more teen-pop and bubblegum
> chart fodder to cash in on their investment. Bearing this in in
> mind, it comes as no surprise that the album doesn't work.
I think that was probably a minor factor in the album's success.
IIRC, It was Brian Lake's (Prophets' lead singer/B3 player) idea to
remake the Drifters' "Some Kind Of Wonderful" for the follow-up
to "Playgirl", so they hadn't completely changed directions at that
time.
Clark Besch:
> It may have that 66 sound because the original demo of "Playgirl"
> can be found on Sundazed's "The Great Lost Knickerbockers Album"
> Cd.
Its writer, Keith Colley, had his own minor chart single with
"Enamorado" in Spanish) in 1963, and Colley was on Challenge at the
same time as the Knickerbockers.
gem
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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:26:44 +0100
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: Monterey musicians
Bob Kacerow asked:
> Does anyone know who the drummer and lead guitarist were during the
> Mamas & Papas segment from the Monterey Pop Festival?
Rex Patton:
> According to the booklet that came with the Monterey Pop Festival
> box set, the guitarist was Eric Hord.
Eric is "The Doctor" on the Barry McGuire album "Barry McGuire and the
Doctor"
> If you watch the Monterey Pop movie you will also see Hal Blaine,
> who was there playing with The Group With No Name, who is sitting
> on the drum riser and who then gets behind a second kit to play on
> Scott McKenzie's guest star rendition of "San Francisco," which is
> godawful, as is the whole Mamas & Papas set. That performance is a
> blight on the Mamas & Papas legacy, and I'm shocked that they
> allowed it to go out on record and on the DVD that came out a
> couple of years ago.
The Monterey film I saw in England had the Mamas & Papas performance
dubbed from the records.
Dave, late in London
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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:22:50 -0400
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: "You're So Good To Me" covers
S.J. Dibai wrote:
> ... While it's an immensely catchy song and the BB's version is
> fun, it doesn't meet the high standard of composition and
> production that they were setting for their A-sides at the time.
Were matters of opinion subject to debate, you'd get some hard dispute
from me for that one! As far as cover versions go, the heavenly
Langley Schools Project, out of British Columbia, includes a real
nice take on "You're So Good To Me."
--Phil M.
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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:34:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Monroe
Subject: Re: Musical Saws
Phil X Milstein wrote:
> As a dabbler on the instrument myself, my ears always perk up
> whenever they detect musical saw (aka "singing saw") on a record.
> Needless to say this doesn't happen all that often ...
I know not one but two sawists (?) in town (Milwaukee) here, one's an
occasional DJ partner of mine and the other lives across the street
from me. Both I think I can safely call friends. The former plays
with what to my ears sounds like an Eastern European avant garde
band called Wooden Robot:
http://www.woodenrobot.org/
http://www.mseproject.org/Faythe_Levine.php
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/jun04/234540.asp
And the latter with an accordionist et al. (and he sings as well
through a megaphone, often to old skool Felix the Cat cartoons) in
the duo Dreamland Faces:
http://www.riverwestcurrents.org/2004/July/002036.html
http://www.rochester-citynews.com/gbase/Gyrosite/Content?oid=oid%3A1903
I would be happy to send along records (vinyl, even, though I believe
WR at least has a CD out as well) if you're interested. Shamless
other-promotion, sorry.
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:08:52 +0100
From: Various
Subject: Re: Anyone know about this tune?
One question, several answers:
Steve Harvey:
> A question from a pal:
> A friend of mine's son is getting married. She wants to play the
> song "Turnaround" at his wedding. The only version I have is by the
> Kingston Trio on the Time to Think CD. That version is sung from the
> perspective of a father to a daughter. My friend is looking for the
> opposite perspective--a mother to a son. Does anyone know if this
> version exists? It's such a popular song, I'm sure a female singer
> has recorded it. Thanks for your help!
The song was also recorded by : Harry Belafonte ; Jimmie Rodgers ;
Freddie & The Dreamers ; The Brothers Four ; and a group called The
Womanfolk. From what I remember of the song it could be used by
either male or female. I have all of these versions in my music
files, if you can't find the one you want and one of these will do
let me know.
AJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick & Dee Dee did it (with songwriting credited to Malvina Reynolds,
Alan Greene and Harry Belafonte). Had Dick done his part in his usual
piercing falsetto your friend might've been able to fake it, but instead
most of it's in his normal register. Seems to me to be an awfully
depressing song to have played at somebody's wedding, though!
--Phil M.
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Perhaps she was thinking of a Kodak commercial where I seem to
remember that tune used.
Regards, George Schowerer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosemary Clooney did a real nice mother to daughter version. Sonny
And Cher did it and I think that it's mostly Cher singing. Dick and
DeeDee did it too.
Aloha, Harold Shackleford
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16 year old ye-ye girl Anne-Lyse recorded it as "Tourne Toi," it's
available on CD on the Del-Fi Girl Groups: Gee Baby Gee compilation
(reminds me, I need a 45 of that, as well as one of that "Ooh Poo Pah
Doo" by The Sisters), but that might be a bit too rock 'n' roll, not
to mention, well, French for your friend's needs. The Burl Ives
recording I my particular favorite, insofar as anything which has
broken you down to uncontrollable sobbingsince childhood can be
considered a "favorite." But I only just noticed that Harry Belafonte
is listed as one of the song's cowriters.
Dave Monroe
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Is this the Malvina Reynolds tune:
("Where are you goin' my little one, little one?
Where are you goin' my baby my own?
Turn around and you're two
Turn around and you're four
Turn around and you're a young girl
Going out of the door.")
There are versions by Rosemary Clooney, Sonny & Cher, Dick & DeeDee,
and The Womenfolk, though I don't know how readily available they
are, or whether all has a female lead singer. There may be a version
by Malvina Reynolds herself though she did record most of her own
songs when she was an older woman, so her singing voice was not at
its greatest. It's not as conventionally sweet as Rosemary Clooney's,
but I'd prefer it any day.
Norm D.
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:01:29 +0100
From: Ian Slater
Subject: More about the Cray-ons
In reply to Stefano's quesion I don't recall seeing any Cray-ons
tracks on a re-issue, but I certainly wouldn't be sure about that.
However, with help of a friend, I can now give more information on
their original vinyl. They originally recorded as Ronnie & the
Crayons and released "Am I In Love" / "Richard's Bread" on Counsel
102 in 1963. The same record was also issued on Domain 1402 in 1964.
Not heard that one. I wonder what "Richard's Bread" was about?! Their
song "I Saw You", mentioned in my last list, is apparently the same
as the song of that title as recorded by Carol Slade on Highland 1034
in 1963, and later reissued on the Domain (that label again), Domino
and Malynn labels.
"Love At First Sight" is now playing @ musica:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/
Ian Slater
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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:14:54 -0400
From: James Botticelli
Subject: The Beach Boys' "You're So Good To Me"
S.J. Dibai wrote:
> ... While it's an immensely catchy song and the BB's version is
> fun, it doesn't meet the high standard of composition and
> production that they were setting for their A-sides at the time.
That one was NOT sung by Brian, right? Was it Carl? Same singer as
Darlin', another of my faves.
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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:03:23 -0700
From: Richard Otis
Subject: Re: Searchers' "Have You Ever Loved Somebody"
Mark on the Searchers:
> In the liner notes, they mention that "Have You Ever Loved
> Somebody" was written by the Hollies, and indeed, the writer credit
> is Ransford, who wrote a number of great Hollies songs. So, did the
> Hollies ever cut this one in their own right?
Roy Clough:
> "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" was also done by a Brit duo Paul and
> Barry Ryan and incidentally was produced by The Searchers ex
> drummer Chris Curtis, who passed away recently....There's also a
> good version by The Everly Bothers on the album "Two Yanks In
> England" produced by .............The Hollies.
According to Graham Nash L. Ransford was his grandfather or some
relative's name and it represented the collective names of the
songwriting team of Nash and Allan Clark who was the Hollies lead
singer.
Richard Otis
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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:21:44 -0000
From: Robert R. Radil
Subject: Re: Worst drop out on a CD
Bill Mulvy wrote:
> I nominate The Bloodrock 3 Cd put out by Renaissance Records for
> the most notable dropout award. One of my all time favorite songs
> "Jessica", has a very noticeable drop out within the last five
> seconds of the song. It reminds me of my old reel-to-reel recorder
> dropouts so it does have a certain nostalgia value to it. I just
> wish it was not on that song!
This reminds me of another bad edit on a Bloodrock song. On the
single edit of "DOA" as it appears on some compilation CD(s), there
is a fraction of a second missing at the 3:02 point where the word
"life" becomes "ife". This was brought to my attention by Joe Nelson
a couple years ago. At that point I didn't know what he was refering
to since my original vinyl 45 is fine.
Another poor edit that has annoyed me for a number of years is on
"Teach Your Children" by CSN&Y. The segment from about 1:20 to about
1:50 was spliced in from a different recording, probably recorded on
a different machine where the heads were mis-aligned. The result is
phase error that is quite noticable when listening in mono, such as
frequently done on portable radios. A casual stereo listener won't
notice. Same goes the folks at Atlantic records. It seems that they
don't have a "mono" button on their consoles. BTW - This was an easy
fix using my computer. Shouldn't they be able to do the same?
And one more, "Amen" by The Impressions. On the original single
version at the 2:15 point, it sounds as if the tape broke and they
Scotch taped it together! This was not at an edit point. The LP
version, released on CD doesn't have this error.
Bob Radil
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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