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Spectropop - Digest Number 1983
- From: Spectropop Group
- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005
________________________________________________________________________
SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
________________________________________________________________________
There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Carole King versus the Honey Bees
From: Mick Patrick
2. R.I.P. Obie Benson / Luther Vandross
From: Artie Wayne
3. Re: Mike Smith
From: Steve Harvey
4. Re: "Happy Together," the gift that keeps on giving
From: Steve Harvey
5. Re: "Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of Soundalikes"
From: Peter Lerner
6. Re: "Morning Girl"
From: Skip Woolwine
7. Talentmasters Studio photos
From: S'pop Projects
8. Re: "Morning Girl"
From: Nick Archer
9. Re: "Morning Girl" / Luther Vandross R.I.P.
From: Bob Rashkow
10. Re: Philly acts post-1963
From: S.J. Dibai
11. Re: "Morning Girl"
From: John Fox
12. That Thing They Did
From: David Coyle
13. Al Kooper in the NY Times; Brian "Smile"s; RIP Carson Parks; "event records"
From: Country Paul
14. Re: "Susan"
From: Bob Rashkow
15. Re: "Morning Girl" / Tupper Saussy
From: Frank J
16. Re: Luther Vandross / Superstar
From: Richard Havers
17. Re: "Superstar"
From: Andrew Hickey
18. Re: Burdon in Boston
From: Phil X Milstein
19. Re: "Superstar"
From: Eddy
20. Re: "Superstar"
From: Richard Havers
21. Re: "Superstar"
From: Stanley Hartman
22. Re: That Thing They Did
From: Rat Pfink
23. Re: "Superstar"
From: Dave Heasman
24. "Too Much Talk"
From: Bill Mulvy
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:57:50 +0100
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Carole King versus the Honey Bees
Peter Andreasen:
> Can anyone help me regarding a single released on Tomorrow 7502
> from 1966? On one side is "The Road To Nowhere" performed by
> Carole King. On the other side is a recording of "Some Of Your
> Lovin'". I only have this track on a bootleg CD, but no artist
> is listed, and I can't tell if it's the same as the Honey Bees'
> (Cookies) version from their Fontana 45. I am confused.
I don't have the bootleg CD to which you refer, but I'm told it
contains the Honey Bees' version of "Some Of Your Lovin'". However,
I do have 45s of their version and the one by Carole King, so I've
posted them both to musica for comparison. Details are:
The Honey Bees "Some Of Your Lovin'" (Fontana 1505, 1965)
Carole King "Some Of Your Lovin'" (Tomorrow 7502, 1966)
Find musica here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/
Of course, the song was written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin.
Both versions were produced by Gerry Goffin. In fact, they share
the same backing track.
Btw, on this particular record, the Honey Bees were not the Cookies.
Don't ask me who they were, though!
Any questions/theories?
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: R.I.P. Obie Benson / Luther Vandross
I was saddened to hear about the passing of Obie Benson of the Four
Tops. I didn't know him, but like for many of us, their hits played
strong in the soundtrack of my life. From their Holland/ Dozier/
Holland groundbreaking days at Motown to the Lambert/ Potter epics at
ABC Dunhill...Obie was part of a group that was as comfortable with a
song with social significance as they were with a romantic pop ballad.
I was also deeply affected by the passing yesterday of my friend
Luther Vandross. Everyone thought he was recovering from a stroke so
nicely...but it's all in Gods hands.
I became friendly with Luther when he was a loyal customer at Allan
Rindes' Genghis Cohen, a Chinese restaurant and Hollywood hangout,
which I hosted. Luther would come in, sit and eat a couple of Peking
ducks for dinner and order one of my hand painted shirts for dessert.
Sometimes he'd bring in old music buisness pals of Allan and mine and
we'd all have a good old time!
I was impressed with his artistry from his first album, which my
friend, Jerome Gasper, who signed Luther to Epic played me. He wrote
most of the material he recorded and hit the heart everytime out.
I told him, with every new album release how much I admired him
maintaining an evolving level of musical excellence, while the R and
B genre all around us was all but disappearing.
Just as their music has transcended generations...I'm sure it will
continue to emotionally influence us for years to come.
Rest in Peace, Artie Wayne
http://artiewayne.com
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Mike Smith
Clark Besch wrote:
> A little surprised by the outpouring of UK acts, as I always heard
> the DC5 were not well liked by their fellow English rockers.
Before he released the double DC5 Dave said he was just too busy
making money (his musical, Time, etc.) to be bothered listening to
the old stuff. He did release the double CD, but seems busy with
personal and financial things to be bothered with the past. Guess
he's given up being a stuntdouble too at his age. The anti-DC5
mentality is alive and well on the Mojo4Music messageboard, however.
Steve Harvey
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 08:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: "Happy Together," the gift that keeps on giving
James Cassidy wrote:
> Alan Gordon will be pleased to know that the Turtles' version of
> "Happy Together" is used (apparently intended to be ironic) in the
> US trailer for the Isabelle Huppert film "Ma Mere."
Not to mention that the Aramingo Diner in New Jersey uses it in their
commercial too. Alan should be entitled to a few, free pieces of
cheesecake next time he passes through.
Steve Harvey
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:46:22 +0100
From: Peter Lerner
Subject: Re: "Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of Soundalikes"
Ray:
> I can hardly wait for ("Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of
> Soundalikes") to be released!!!! Volume I is still on heavy
> rotation on my CD player. The Reparata track will be the highlight
> for me...but I'm looking forward to all the selections. Any word on
> a release date????"
I've had mine for a week, courtesy of Swift Mail Order in the UK. Let
me know offline if you need their details. It's very good indeed by
the way. Especially Reparata.
Peter
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 15:42:58 -0500
From: Skip Woolwine
Subject: Re: "Morning Girl"
John Fox wrote:
> Reading about the "long" version of Susan by the Buckinghams
> reminds me of this: Has anyone ever heard the "long" version of
> Morning Girl by the Neon Philharmonic?
Nick Archer wrote:
> The extra stuff was the last cut on the LP, "Morning Girl, Later".
> The stations that I worked for crossfaded the two tracks to make
> something around 5 minutes long.
Actually, Nick Archer probably means the Neon Philharmonic LP, "The
Moth Confesses". There is a second, hard-to-find LP called simply
"The Neon Philharmonic" also on Warner Brothers. The Neon
Philharmonic story in itself is a treat: yet another example of non-
country musical wizardry emanating from Nashville. I've come to
communicate with the enigmatic Tupper Saussey over the last few
years. (He was an acquaintance of my parents and their friends.)
Virtually all of the Neon Philharmonic catalogue has been re-issued
as a 2-CD set on Rhino Handmade, including a substantial amount of
historical info and previously-unreleased tracks. It is said that
there is a fine line between genius and madness, and that's the only
way one can describe the incredible arrangements that Saussey threw
at the musicians on these sessions. They were all recorded in a tiny
studio with 2 x 4-track Ampex recorders at Acuff-Rose music
publishing company... It was their demo studio... Used by folks like
the Everly Brothers and Mickey Newberry. Saussey did almost
everything: words and music, all the arrangements, all the keyboards.
He told me that engineer Glen Snoddy would record 4 tracks on Ampex-
A, then would playback Ampex-A, mixing with it yet another set of
live musicians from the Nashville Symphony while recording to Ampex-
B. They would do this a couple of times, and somehow never had any
hiss buildup on the final versions. Now THAT was a clean studio! Put
on the headphones and listen to all the hard-left-hard-right
separation... Then ask yourself "what kind of madman arranged all
this?" And it works...with "Brilliant Colors".
Skip Woolwine
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:52:24 +0100
From: S'pop Projects
Subject: Talentmasters Studio photos
Chris Cotie wrote:
> In Spectropop's web site was a question about Bob Gallo and Robert
> Harvey of Talentmasters studio in New York. It is my understanding
> Bob Gallo is in Canada still recording. Bob Harvey wrote articles
> for Rolling Stone Mag in mid 1970s-1980s, but not sure of name he
> used. A kid Bob Harvey brought over from England and knows a lot
> about Talentmasters is Chris Huston who was in group Undertakers
> and knows a lot about the period at Talentmasters from James Brown
> through Led Zeppelin and is doing studio design today. I think Bob
> Harvey has passed away but not sure. Chris Huston has a lot if you
> do a google search and you will hear his influence on a lot of
> great recordings. Will send some photos of Talentmasters in
> separate post.
The shots to which Chris refers have now been uploaded to the S'pop
Photos Section: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/lst
Enjoy,
The S'pop Team
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:50:10 -0500
From: Nick Archer
Subject: Re: "Morning Girl"
Skip Woolwine wrote:
> Actually, Nick Archer probably means the Neon Philharmonic LP, "The
> Moth Confesses".
Sorry for the wording of my original message. "Morning Girl, Later"
is the last cut on side 1 of the LP "The Moth Confesses".
Nick
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:15:01 EDT
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" / Luther Vandross R.I.P.
When Neon Philharmonic's "Morning Girl" was on the charts in spring
'69 I always felt there was more to the record than was being spun.
Kind of like Richard Harris' "MacArthur Park", I always had the idea
that the brass and string section could go on for 4 or 5 minutes,
creating the same kind of dramatic, profound effect. The 3-minute
version stands on its own merits and is certainly one of the more
memorable 1969 "almost-smashes."
Luther Vandross, while not always someone I would die to listen to,
did a remake of "Superstar" (Nichols and Williams?? Leon Russell??)
by The Carpenters around 1984 that I believe is one of the most
stunning remakes ever. It's as if the song was MEANT to be an R&B
tune, and it was always one of my favorites by Karen and Richard
too! We're sorry to see you go, Luther, and thanks for bringing that
tune to a new height.
Bobster
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:08:03 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Philly acts post-1963
Country Paul, responding to my inquiry:
> The Four J's {"Here Am I Broken Hearted"} and Ernie & The Halos
> {"Angel Marie") had Philly hits in the mid 60s.
I looked up "Angel Marie" and the date was 1963. Subject to further
research. As for the Four J's--well! I oughta be ashamed of myself!
I think I forgot that they were popular in that era because of their
sound. It's amazing how straight doo-wop records kept hitting in
Philly into the mid-60s. Another goodie in this vein is Billy & the
Essentials' "Babalu's Wedding Day," which was a big local hit in
1966. That one was originally by The Eternals.....right?
> Also, was bandleader Bobby Gregg a Philadelphian? "The Jam" (Cotton
> records) was a national hit.
He was from Philly, and "The Jam" was recorded here. However, it is
from 1962, thus not part of what I was asking about. Great record,
though.
S.J. Dibai
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 01:07:46 EDT
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: "Morning Girl"
Nick Archer writes:
> The extra stuff was the last cut on the LP, "Morning Girl, Later".
Makes sense, since there is some "dead air" between where the single
version we're all used to ends and the new stuff starts. Thanks for
the info. I don't know how to do Musica, but someone asked me to
send them the mp3 of this long version, which I will do and they can
post it.
John Fox
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Coyle
Subject: That Thing They Did
Long story short: The Wonders songs, all written or cowritten by Adam
Schlesinger of Fountains Of Wayne, and about half of them sung by
Mike Viola of the Candy Butchers. Before the movie came out, the FsOW
had an album out and the CBs had recorded a live EP.
Both thought that their involvement with the soundtrack would lead to
bigger and better things after the movie took off. Before that they
just thought of it as some quick work for a quick paycheck. The end
result wasn't quite what either party hoped for, although it probably
did help pay for their groups' followup recordings.
The Candy Butchers really didn't get anywhere and eventually split
but the Fountains Of Wayne had a hit with "Stacy's Mom" from their
third album, appeared as the Hollies on "American Dreams" and have
just released a 2-CD set of b-sides and live cuts. They've done
pretty well and their albums have consistently been good.
I know that after the movie came out, Mike Viola tried his best to
make his band's records as un-Wonders-like as he could, which was
probably not a help. Their Christmas EP, with its pop-punk overhaul
of Mariah Carey's "All I Want For Christmas Is You," is probably my
favorite CBs recording.
David
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:50:47 -0400
From: Country Paul
Subject: Al Kooper in the NY Times; Brian "Smile"s; RIP Carson Parks; "event records"
New news - nice article, including 1/3-page photo, of Al Kooper in
Sunday (July 3)'s New York Times Arts & Entertainment section. Way to
go, Alfonts!
Catching up, briefly....
Florence Gray wrote:
> I'm new here, so please forgive me if this is an old question BUT
> ...has anyone attended any of Brian's SMILE performances?
Welcome, Florie. Yes, many of us. My reaction to the Carnegie Hall
Smile concert: Wow! Or, quoting Phil Milstein, "I think you are in
for one the great musical events of your life!" (I couldn't have said
it better.) But on the Pet Sounds symphonic tour, which I also saw at
the Garden State Arts Center in New Jersey, I thought he was
transcendant, too. Phoning it in, as you suggest? Well, he barely
moved, but I felt it to be total concentration - and his voice was
smiling, even if his face wasn't. It was as though you could watch
him fighting his demons - and winning. I was so overwhelmed to be in
attendance that I had tears in my eyes for a good portion of the
event. Your comment, "it was amazing just to be breathing his air,"
leads me to believe you've found a good place to be here at
Spectropop.
Florie, later:
> Clarence Carson Parks II, Brother Of Van Dyke, Passed Away This
> Morning
Ouch - sadly disturbing. I was recently playing some of his works, and
thinking how under-rated he was. The Carson & Gaile version of
Something Stupid remains my favorite, totally transcending Ol' Blue
Eyes on that one. My sympathies to his brother and family.
Phil M., interesting theory about "event records" vs. "simple hits."
I'll go with most of your theory, although I question that "Achy
Breaky Heart" had a complex or novel structure; it was just a two-
chord wonder, catchier than a fly fisherman's armamentarium, but with
a highly-satirizable title and - ultimately - artist (mullet and all,
including a country name in a crossover world. Point of reflection:
how come northerners seldom if ever have double micknames for first
names, i.e., "Billy Ray," "Bobby Joe," "Billy Bob," "Joe Bob,"
etc.?). Who knows why certain phrases, people, songs, etc., catch on
and inspire satires? They just do. (If I did know, I'd be writing the
next one right now!)
Country Paul
(now less than a week behind - how long can this last?!?)
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:50:43 EDT
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: "Susan"
"Susan" by the Buckinghams, like "Too Much Talk" by Paul Revere and
the Raiders and many other late 6Ts oldies, is a victim of oldies-
station editing. Anything that sounds period-piece, such as the
hysterical crescendo of noise that provides such a intriguing
counterpoint to Dennis Tufano's confessions of love in "Susan", or
the psychedelic-flower-sunshine-optimism of "Now's our chance to
change the world, change the world with love, with loovvvvveeee..."
in "Too Much Talk", long ago was rendered obsolete and dispensable by
stations eager to slice everything to the barest in order to run as
many commercials as they could get away with. Don't be surprised--
next to go might be the phasing at the end of "The Letter", the
persistent car horns in "Expressway To Your Heart", the effects in
"Green Tambourine", Arthur Brown's "Fire"--oh, for God's sake. They
even took some music in Janis Ian's "At 17" (1975) and re-edited that
for some silly reason. And let's not forget Louis Armstrong's
original recording (1967? '68?) of "What A Wonderful World", brought
out practically from Sixties Cemetery after "Good Morning, Vietnam"
was released. All of a sudden there's this Kenny G style horn in the
middle interval that wasn't there before, spoiling the entire effect
of the song at least IMHO. Musical segments that could only enhance
these recordings at the time of their release, rendered perfectly
harmless (as well as disposable) and thereby offending less listeners
(supposedly) and turning records like "Susan" into just pleasant
little pop songs about love. One gets the idea--dated as the
Buckinghams' basic sound may be--that anyone under the age of say 35
wouldn't be able to tell the difference between "Susan" as played on
WLS in January '68 and "Susan" as butchered by (the late) WJMK-FM in
January 2000. Only WE know the difference and that's why we're
here!
Bobster
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:00:40 +0200
From: Frank J
Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" / Tupper Saussy
Skip, totally agree with you. Tupper really is a genius. Maybe you
can ask him about the singles that appeared in the mid 70s under the
Neon Philharmonic name. I'm not sure what Tuppers involvement was.
And I wouldn't say it's Don Gant singing on them. Or his voice has
changed significantly over the years. The engineer though is still
his brother Ron Gant. Can find only one of the two singles I have at
the moment. It was released on Hickory Records in 1975 but has the
London Records logo above (maybe they picked it up nationally??).
Producer was David Kastle. A-side "Long Distance Love" is an
enjoyable though lot more commercial song then Tuppers oeuvre in the
60s. It's written by Ray Williams. The b-side "Makin' Out The Best I
Can" is written by Tupper Saussy. More about the fascinating
character Tupper Saussy at http://www.tuppersaussy.com/
Frank J.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:36:25 +0100
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: Luther Vandross / Superstar
Bob Rashkow wrote:
> Luther Vandross, while not always someone I would die to listen to,
> did a remake of "Superstar" (Nichols and Williams?? Leon Russell??)
> by The Carpenters around 1984 that I believe is one of the most
> stunning remakes ever. It's as if the song was MEANT to be an R&B
> tune, and it was always one of my favorites by Karen and Richard
> too!
Bob, I'm with you on both counts! I loved the Carpenters version when
it first came out, when it was very uncool to admit to liking them
(is it still that way?). There's also the 1971 Spring version of
Superstar, co-produced and with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson.
Anyone know which version was recorded first?
Richard
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:10:03 +0100
From: Andrew Hickey
Subject: Re: "Superstar"
Richard Havers wrote:
> I loved the Carpenters version when it first came out, when it was
> very uncool to admit to liking them (is it still that way?).
> There's also the 1971 Spring version of Superstar, co-produced and
> with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson. Anyone know which version was
> recorded first?
I remember reading an interview with the person who arranged the
backing track for that (IIRC Rick Henn of the Survivors, but I could
be wrong there) and him saying he'd been given a copy of the
Carpenters' version to copy in his arrangement.
--
http://dumbangel.keenspace.com
A webcomic about Smile returns as soon as the phone company stop
messing me about and connect me.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:02:36 -0400
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: Burdon in Boston
Bill Mulvy wrote:
> Did Eric Burdon do "Sky Pilot"?
He did indeed. Nice version, too.
--Phil M.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:22:34 +0200
From: Eddy
Subject: Re: "Superstar"
Richard Havers:
> I loved the Carpenters version when it first came out, when it was
> very uncool to admit to liking them (is it still that way?).
> There's also the 1971 Spring version of Superstar, co-produced and
> with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson. Anyone know which version was
> recorded first?
As far as I can tell the Spring album wasn't released until July
1972, over a year later than the Carpenters album feat. Superstar.
Maybe not the final word on a recording date, but at least an
indication.
Eddy
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:40:17 +0100
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: "Superstar"
Andrew Hickey wrote:
> I remember reading an interview with the person who arranged the
> backing track for that (IIRC Rick Henn of the Survivors, but I could
> be wrong there) and him saying he'd been given a copy of the
> Carpenters' version to copy in his arrangement.
Thanks Andrew, and Eddy too. I would have guessed the Carpenters if
pushed. The lyrics are just so perfect. I always figured that it
somehow inspired Bread's Guitar Man. How many songs are there about
musicians?
Richard
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 05:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stanley Hartman
Subject: Re: "Superstar"
Eddy:
> As far as I can tell the Spring album wasn't released until July
> 1972, over a year later than the Carpenters album feat. Superstar.
> Maybe not the final word on a recording date, but at least an
> indication.
The Carpenters was released first. It was co-written by Leon Russell,
who actually played piano on the Pet Sounds sessions.
Stan
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:04:57 -0400
From: Rat Pfink
Subject: Re: That Thing They Did
David Coyle wrote:
> The Candy Butchers really didn't get anywhere and eventually split.
Actually Mike Viola is still using the Candy Butchers name. He
released "Hang On Mike" under the group moniker last year.
RP
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:19:27 +0100
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: "Superstar"
Richard Havers:
> Thanks Andrew, and Eddy too. I would have guessed the Carpenters if
> pushed. The lyrics are just so perfect.
I'm sure you know it was originally sung by Bonnie Bramlett, and the
lyrics were changed for Karen C from "sleep with you again" to "be
with you again".
Dave, long ago & oh so far away in London.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:50:30 -0500
From: Bill Mulvy
Subject: "Too Much Talk"
Bob Rashkow:
> "Susan" by the Buckinghams, like "Too Much Talk" by Paul Revere and
> the Raiders and many other late 6Ts oldies, is a victim of oldies-
> station editing.
While I agree with most of what you said, I have to differ regarding
"Too Much Talk". The version you quote from was an album version,
which differs substantially from the single version which was played
on the radio. They both have their place but I don't believe the
version you quoted was ever indeed shortened. It was just a long
different version, from the original 45 rpm version, which has a
middle part that is different (and missing) from the "long version".
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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