__________________________________________________________
__________ __________
__________ __________
__________ S P E C T R O P O P __________
__________ __________
__________________________________________________________
Volume #0202 December 29, 1998
__________________________________________________________
The original hits by the original artists
Subject: Re: Billy Nicholls "Would You Believe"
Sent: 12/29/98 2:46 am
Received: 12/29/98 10:14 am
From: Alec Palao, pXXXXXXXXs.com
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
>David Bash wrote:
>
>I just got a wonderful reissue of a 1967 album that a lot of you
>would love, "Would You Believe" by Billy Nicholls, on the Japanese
>label Teichiku Records. This album was original released, in
>extremely small quanities, in the UK on Immediate Records and was
>supposedly producer Andrew Loog Oldham's attempt to do a British
>version of Pet Sounds. Well, it doesn't really sound like Pet
>Sounds but it is excellent soft pop, with lots of harpsichord and
>soaring vocals. Nicholls' melodies are great, and the high, almost
>eerie vocals are a great complement to the arrangements. Fans of
>Curt Boettcher related material, The Twice As Much, "Odessey and
>Oracle " and yes, "Pet Sounds", should gobble this one up!
>
>Yes, I picked this up and also recommend it. I think fans of
>Between the Buttons/Flowers era Stones will like this very much.
>The title cut Would You Believe is produced by Steve Marriott and
>Ronnie Lane, featuring Small Faces on backing tracks and BG vox by
>Marriott. Oldham's strings on this are wonderful!
Can't recommend "Would You Believe" highly enough, it's one of
the best British albums of the late '60s, hands down and it was a
terrible shame it never got out there. Fabulous songs and a
definitely one of Oldham's best production moments. "London
Social Degree" and "Portobello Road" are but two of it's many
highlights. My understanding is that Sequel in the UK are doing a
full-blown legitimate issue in the near future, adding some of
Nicholl's demos as bonus cuts.
Speaking of Oldham, I've always been a sucker for his 1966-68 era
Immediate Records production/arrangement collaborations with Glyn
Johns, such as on Twice As Much's "Step Out Of Line" and Chris
Farlowe's "Handbags & Gladrags", to name but two classics from
this period. He was moving away from his Spector fetish but still
kept some great bombastic touches. The (originally) unissued
Oldham-produced 1967 Del Shannon sessions like "Cut & Come Again"
and "Led Along" are also top faves from this period.
Note: UK femme-fans might note that Dana Gillespie's (she of
Donovan/Bowie connections) 1968 London LP "Foolish Seasons"
includes her readings of a couple of cuts from the Nicholls LP
including "London Social Degree" and though not produced by
Oldham (rather, Wayne Bickerton) is solidly in the Immediate
genre.
Archivally yours
ALEC
Subject: Girls Can Tell/Touch The Wall Of Sound
Sent: 12/27/98 9:58 pm
Received: 12/28/98 8:48 am
From: Billy G. Spradlin, bgspraXXXXXXXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
Dear Ian:
Did the Ronettes version use the same backing track as the
Crystals version (or vice-versa)? Just wondering. I rememeber
hearing another girl group cover the song (I think it was the
Jelly Beans) but thier simple version pales when compared to
Spectors. I would love to hear the Ronettes version.
Also I have been listening to several tracks on the "Touch The
Wall Of Sound" 2-CD Set. Could someone on the list give me Label,
producer and year information on the following songs?
April Young-Gonna Make Him My Baby
Beverly Warren-Let Me Make Love To You
Weird thing about "Let Me Make Love to you"... I first heard this
song covered by Alex Chilton on his "High Priest" album in 1987.
Thanks!
Billy G.
Billy G. Spradlin
29 Rim Road
Kilgore, Texas 75662
Email: bgspraXXXXXXXXlink.net or maybe biXXXXXXXXre.net
Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~bgspradlin/
Subject: "Girls Can Tell" x 2
Sent: 12/28/98 12:21 am
Received: 12/28/98 8:48 am
From: James Cassidy, casswrXXXXXXXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
Re: The Ronette's version of "Girls Can Tell," Ian Chapman writes:
>Try and find it if you can - it rates as one of the Ronettes
>finest-ever cuts, similar to "I Wonder" - only better!!
I concur wholeheartedly, Ian. Listening to the two versions of
"Girls Can Tell" is an interesting study in the contrasting vocal
styles of Ronnie and Lala. To my ears, Lala's more forceful,
right-on-the-beat delivery is better suited to straight-ahead
rockers like "Da Doo Ron Ron." Ronnie's relaxed phrasing and
delivery on "Girls Can Tell" give the Ronettes' version a warmer,
more romantic feel.
I'd make the same comment about the Crystals' "Little Boy" vs.
the Mink Deville version ("Little Girl").
Jim Cassidy
Subject: Re: Girls Can Tell
Sent: 12/28/98 12:07 am
Received: 12/29/98 10:14 am
From: Jamie LePage, le_pageXXXXXXXXties.com
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
Ian wrote:
>For those of you who may not know - the Ronettes version [of
>Girls Can Tell] was issued on the UK PSI set "Rare Masters Vol. 1"
>back in the late 70s - but it was incorrectly credited to the
>Crystals on the album label and sleeve. It has never appeared on
>any legit reissues since, because I believe UK Polydor, the
>licensees at the time, lost the tape!!
Wow, I hadn't realized this recording had once again become a
"rare master." The other two rather obscure Ronettes sides; Lovers
and I Can Hear Music (the latter which was on Vol. 4 of the same
PSI series) are both on Marginal's Ultimate Collection (boot) CD
by Ronettes, but you're right, Ian, no Girls Can Tell. The Rare
Masters LPs have been been favorite Spector listening since I
first got my hands on them, conversely I haven't paid much
attention to the CD issues. The ABKCO hodgepodge releases make
certain rare tracks common (Ronnies's You Came You Saw...,
Darlene's Chapel of Love) and others (like Ronnie's Girls Can
Tell) hard to find. Bizarre.
Was Girls Can Tell missing from the Ronettes #2 LP that was part
of the 9 disc WoS box (the album that first had Lovers on it)?
>[Girls Can Tell] was issued on a bootleg 45-there was a set of
>boot Philles singles, some on coloured wax, doing the rounds in
>the early 80s.
The track is also on a 1991 boot PHLP-5000X Phil Spector-Rare
Masters; basically a poorly remastered PSWoS Vol. 5 & 6 on one
CD with a few tracks omitted. On the CD, Girls Can Tell is
correctly credited to the Ronettes.
>Try and find it if you can - it rates as one of the Ronettes
>finest-ever cuts, similar to "I Wonder" - only better!!
A great Phil, Jeff and Ellie song over a gorgeous Spector track!
The strings are fantastic. Both Crystals and Ronettes use the
same track, so it is really just a matter of vocal style that
makes each version distinctive. Funny though, for a long time I
thought Phil intentionally used Ronnie on the Rare Masters
"Crystals" version of Girls Can Tell. After all, it wouldn't have
been the first time Ronnie sang under the name Crystals! Hot
Pastrami anyone?
le_pageXXXXXXXXties.com
RodeoDrive/5030
Subject: Oh, Carol!
Sent: 12/28/98 12:21 am
Received: 12/28/98 8:48 am
From: James Cassidy, casswrXXXXXXXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
The always wonderfully informative Carol Kaye wrote:
>Well, this is probably more than you wanted to know, got
>carried away here.
Not as far as I'm concerned, Ms. Kaye! Your perspective is
invaluable!
Carol also referred to the "Motown Scam." I learned about this a
while back from either Carol's website or one of her postings on
the "Cabinessence" board. This was a particularly amazing
revelation to me as a bass player. For years, I idolized James
Jamerson, assuming that he played those fabulous bass parts on
"Bernadette" and "I Was Made to Love Her." Now, I don't admire
Jamerson any less -- he was great -- but I certainly think Carol
deserves greater recognition for "out-Jamerson'ing Jamerson" on
those classic tracks. In both cases (and indeed many others), the
bass "makes" the song.
But let me ask you this, Carol -- *why* did Motown engage in this
deception? Was it to save a few dollars? I can't imagine that it
was done to provide more royalties to the Detroit studio
musicians, since Motown apparently never cared much about them or
gave them the credit or recognition they deserved, either.
Jim Cassidy
P.S. Nice to hear you extolling Earl Palmer -- another legendary
musician who practically invented rock drumming! I look forward
to reading his book.
Subject: More about 60s dates
Sent: 12/27/98 3:25 pm
Received: 12/27/98 5:36 pm
From: Carol Kaye, carolXXXXXXXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
Mark - thanks, haha. Well, I'm no prude that's for sure. But back
in the 60s, Frank Zappa's lyrics did shake me up a little, I was
just a "mom" then. I had the utmost respect for Frank and tried
to write him about herbs and things when he was very ill. I don't
know if he ever got the letter.
He was a wonderful person, a great talent, very straight-arrow.
His music was great - everyone looked forward to reading his
music. George Duke, a wonderful guy and fine jazz pianist, had
nothing but praise for Frank when he was on the road with him
(George and I recorded together on the last Gene Ammons album at
Fantasy about 1974).
David, thanks - Earl Palmer's autobiography will be out March 1st
'99. He's excited about it now that it's done. He had some help
with the writing. The book is named "Backbeat - The Earl Palmer
Story" (Smithsonian Press), and Earl is on the cover of their
bookstore new flyer. He's very excited. He tells about his early
life in New Orleans (he started out as a dancer, still dancing at
almost 75, well, on his drums of course).
Earl is a special person, a great jazz drummer who chose studio
work early on(he had a lot of kids, is a great papa and good
friend to us all too). Earl brought the swamp beat to LA in 1957
and started the funky double-time stuff here. Full of mischief
and fun, he played on many a big hit - his drumming has a lot of
paradiddles on the fade, very distinctive, an exciting drummer.
I've known him so long I feel like I'm his sister, (or married to
him!). :-), truly a wonderful man.
I'm so happy about his book coming out; he speaks about things
the way they really are: the music business, his life...he
started from poor beginnings in the French Quarter and rose to
the highest #1 call in the LA studios you can reach. He was a
Union officer, and he is now on the Boards for the LA Jazz Awards,
R&B Awards and Blues Awards (he won a few himself). He deserves
so much for all he's done.
Thanks Claudia -- yes, I played on those, I am sure - I'll have
to listen to them again. I don't ordinarily listen to the oldies,
I only have a few of the records -- I am playing jazz these days
(outside of an occasional studio call, not much happening these
days) so I usually listen to jazz and some classical. It knocks
me out when I do hear our old records, the power that is there --
We all had kids to support, but it was more than that -- we all
liked each other, we could groove together and banter back and
forth -- the jokes, the inside humor got on the records, plus the
music was very new then. We found that we liked to "groove" on
this new music, and it was all pretty friendly, though' sometimes
a little wild -- especially on the Phil Spector dates.
Actually, on the middle of "Lovin' Feelin'," I had an eerie
feeling while recording it, that it was going to be a monster hit,
but really I was just trying to keep the beat from sagging in
this quiet part -- it was kind of hard to do when while just
playing acoustic guitar. Ray Pohlman and Earl did take care of
business.
Doc -- I feel sure I'm on both of those (the Russ Wapensky book
will list all the important dates and studio musicians like that,
but I was called on practically all of Phil's dates at that time).
Guitar for sure on the Paris Sisters' things, bass on the Jan &
Dean one. Vanilli? We all laughed heartily at that; yes, ironic.
Tommy Tedesco even talked about it in his son's film (has quite a
few of us, including Cher, Nancy Sinatra, Plas Johnson (Pink
Panther sax), Lew McCreary - who is in the hospital at this time
fighting cancer, he's holding his own; Julius Wechter, leader of
the Baja Marimba Band - also not too well, but sounding good on
the phone, Hal Blaine of course, Tommy, myself, Don Randi, a few
more in that film.
Tommy mentioned that Vanilli was the "tip of the iceberg" and we
all laughed about that - totally agree. The world has yet to find
out all we did in the 60s. Slowly the word is getting out though.
People don't attack me anymore when I say we recorded their
favorite surf-rock group; it's sinking in more and more.
Brian Wilson, bless him (he's a good guy too, doing very well now)
was the first to acknowledge us in his special new Pet Sounds
booklet.
Jamie, the Danelectro is a 6-string bass guitar (the "real" bass
guitar, the elec. bass was called the Fender bass, until I sort
of renamed it "Electric Bass" with my 1st book, "How To Play The
Electric Bass" 1969, and the Unions followed suit.).
It's a kind of cheap, clicky instrument, it's not too well-made
but it has a unique sound. I changed the pickups and bridges on
mine to make it more playable and also so it would sound better --
Glen Campbell borrowed mine to play his famous bass guitar solo
on "Wichita Lineman" which we cut at Capitol, and he used it on a
couple of other tracks too.
Bill Pitman was the first one to really make it popular, he did a
ton of dates on it. Then I got one, and every guitarist got one
(early 60s). That's Barney Kessel on Daneletrco mainly on the
Sonny & Cher hits (while I'm playing elec. 12-string guitar fills
and runs - rhythmic stuff).
The Danelectro is an interesting instrument as it's kind of
slapped together, but it gets a very unique sound; it feels easy
to play, especially if you change the pickups and bridges. I'm
playing Dano on the Beach Boys' "I Get Around," that's the sound
of it.
I just recorded one thing with the Wondermints, fine group, a lot
of talent in that band. They said it would be the #1 record, so
glad to see it out. Chris Carter called me to invite me to that
thing, but I wasn't feeling too well. I must call him, thanks for
reminding me. I;m glad it was a success, they deserve it all.
On the Motown issue, most of the Supremes things were cut out
here in LA as engineer Armin Steiner reported in an 80s MIX
Magazine interview -- he was the only engineer they used (and he
helped them rebuild their Detroit board too).
Armin won an Academy Award for a film a few years ago (he is now
out at Fox), but we talked on the phone just before that, and he
expressed unhappiness at not being recognized for all the great
hits he did for Motown (including "I Can't Help Myself," I'm
playing bass on that, but of course the Detroit crew claims that
track; they get the royalties = it was our fault to do cash dates
for them out here).
Armin talked at great length about doing that particular one from
the very start to the very finish of Levi's overdub on his vocal
at TTG).
So yes, we did a lot of the 4 Tops, most of the Supremes, and
some various other artists. Stevie Wonder does tell his band that
I played the bass part on his hit of "I Was Made To Love Her" (in
most of these, the bass parts were sort of indicated in the 1st
bar, and on some breaks, but the rest was improvised).
I'm hesitant to talk about this until Earl's book gets out; he
discusses our Motown dates as do many films with our interviews
on them. I'm also hesitant out of respect for the late James
Jamerson who did start the Motown bass sound, he did a lot of
very fine hits for the Detroit hit-making factory.
Armin would put a little compression on my bass sound (I asked
him why -- he said to "match the Detroit sound" which made sense
to me then). I never used any compression or EQ at all, and my
bass was usually miked (like on Pet Sounds, the other BB hits I
played on) until the end of the 60s, when sometimes they took me
1/2 direct and 1/2 miked.
The movie and TV film studios ALWAYS miked me (Mission Impossible,
Ironside, MASH, Hawaii 5-O, Brady Bunch, Cannon, Streets Of San
Francisco, Kojak, Addams Family, etc.). I always played with a
hard pick but on many things (like Andy Williams, Mathis, many
dates, and movies like "Across 110ths St., etc.) you'd swear it
was fingers.
You can check out my various sounds on my sound-byte page which
does have Bernadette -- one fellow recently compared that to the
bass on the actual recording and wrote me a nice email message
saying he was "doubtful" at first but was excited in saying "it
is you" - my soundbyte with my pick-attack which sounds like
fingers, but has that unmistakable slight initial attach of the
pick (which Leo Fender measured one day, it knocked his
oscilloscope right off, he said never saw an attack like that).
I usually played a lot of 16ths; boogaloo patterns I'd make up
(mostly conga and/or timbale-based Latin-soul lines - I wasn't
influenced by anything outside of the past years of playing - a
lot of jazz, some Latin, etc.), and that always worked, like what
I played on Bill Cosby's Hikky Burr (his 1st theme song about 1970,
"Bill Cosby Show", it was also a hit recording -- plus the
Feelin' Alright hit w/Joe Cocker I played on, those styles).
On many Motown things I just played simple. I played guitar for
Motown at first, but then they wanted me on bass as others did
too from about 1964 on. I purposely stopped working for Motown in
1969, for personal reasons. Others followed suit.
I don't think I'm playing bass on "You Can't Hurry Love," I am
pretty sure that's Arthur Wright, another fine bassist who was
also a fine studio guitarist (and arranger too), but I am on that
date on guitar. Yes, I played elec. bass on Boots (lots of click
on that, that's what they wanted) -- Chuck Berghofer did the
descending string bass line on that one, we only did about 2
takes on that.
Chuck is the bassist on the Barney Miller theme. People all think
that's me, as it's my style but no, that's Chuck, who did a lot of
string bass work doubling with me for some artists, like Nancy
Sinatra (wonderful lady), Jody Miller, and a few others like that.
Wonderful guy, he's a new father now, his picture is on my
website with his adorable little baby girl, Charly Elizabeth. He
played some fine jazz string bass on albums w/Pete Jolly and was
overdubbed on many cuts of the movie "Bird" too.
I doubt if we'll ever get our credits on that Motown stuff as the
Detroit people really do not want to back down and say we did a
lot out here (they're getting all the royalties for our work).
We were wrong not to insist on the dates being "Union", but
really thought we were helping them out with "demos." It went on
too long (3 years) before someone snitched to the Union and we
all got 1,000s in "back-pay." Motown borrowed contractor Ben
Barrett's recording license -- funny thing is that Earl always
thought I snitched and I thought it was him until we did a film
together about 1 year ago -- we finally figured out who snitched
back in the 60s.
Earl and I both remember talking on the phone "Carol listen to
Bernadette and Love Child", and I got back to him "Damn, those
are OUR tracks", and Armin also told me the many times he flew
our masters back to Detroit to finish them back there, lots of
other stuff will come out.
It's a shame there is not enough documentation of this, but I do
have 113 record dates in my log for Motown 1963-1969 and Lester
Sill wrote a blanket statement on Jobete stationery (he was pres.
of Jobete for many years) saying "Carol Kaye played bass on many
Motown original 60s hits....." etc.
It was Tommy Tedesco who insisted that we get $35.00 (instead of
$25.00) per 2 tunes (we could cut 2 tunes in 1 hour, no problem,
great hit tracks), about 1964-65. It wasn't unusual for us to cut
a hit album in 6 hours for anyone back in the 60s -- the coffee
was needed though.
"New contracts" have surfaced on new paper since the onset of
re-uses of Motown hits on TV shows, movies etc., as there were
very few actual record contracts at the Union for Motown before
that (they made them up back in Detroit I assume).
One Detroit songwriter even tried to get into our Pension Fund
with "blank contracts" so it was pretty rampant I think the sham
of it all. Well, I'm probably saying more than you want to know.
Anyway, a lot of involvement of LA musicians on those dates,
especially Supremes, 04 Tops, a few of various ones like the
Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye/Tami Terrell, etc. (Tami
was the greatest singer I think I've ever heard with Motown but
Brenda was no slouch either).
1st Motown LA drummer I worked with was Jesse Sailes, then Earl,
then Paul Humphrey, Ed Greene, even Hal Blaine has in his log a
few Supremes dates. Bass players have included Arthur Wright,
Rene Hall (Rene and Arthur also played guitar on Motown dates),
and later, Wilton Felder, even James Bond played upright bass
along w/me on a fast triplet Supremes recording. Guitarists
included Rene, Arthur, Bud Coleman, Johnny Guitar Watson, Tommy
Tedesco, Don Peake, Al Casey, many, many more.
And percussionists with Motown LA included Gary Coleman (his
daughter Lisa Coleman w/Wendy Melvoin in back of Prince, now out
on their own, my daughter used to babysit Lisa), Laudir, Gene
Estes, Jerry Steinholtz, and King Errison, horns included Ollie
Mitchell, Roy Caton, Paul Hubonen, Bill Peterson (our Union
president), and trombonist Lew McCreay and others. Plas Johnson,
Bill Green, and Jackie Kelson on saxes plus Jim Horn or Bill
Green on bari saxes.
Pianists were either Ray Johnson, Larry Muhoberac (lives now in
Australia), Gene Page (arranged for Motown, now deceased), Don
Abney, Gene Garf, Joe Sample and Jerry Long. Don Randi did a few
a little later on, but I don't think he knows the involvement of
us all from the git-go.
I have many of these same studio musicians on my multi-guitar
commercial album (reissued now as "Calif. Creamin'" at Tower
Records; the record co. is Hot Wire in Germany), and the Motown
sound is unmistakable, cut in 1965.
Don't know why we're such a big secret, we sure weren't a big
secret back in the 60s -- I have some hunches as I researched a
lot of books though. One big thing was the marketing, but there
again, a white bass player by the name of Bob Babbitt also did
some fine Motown Detroit hits back east. We were definitely
integrated out here in LA.
Anyway, hope this answers your questions. Happy New Year to you
all; you're a nice group of people
Best, Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com/
Subject: neat site
Sent: 12/29/98 2:53 am
Received: 12/29/98 10:14 am
From: john rausch, XXXXXXXXnet
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
Just thought I`d share an interesting site with everyone.
http://www.3rdse.com/sleeves.htm
This site should be interesting to some on this list as there are
really great picture sleeves from our era of collecting, all
genres including some neat girl group sleeves that are rarely
seen.
JONR
Phil Spector`s Wall of SoXXXXXXXX://members.tripod.com/~rauschj/
Subject: Coke Jingles
Sent: 12/28/98 3:48 am
Received: 12/28/98 8:48 am
From: Doc Rock, docrXXXXXXXXcom
To: Spectropop List, spectrXXXXXXXXties.com
I made a point to tape the Jan & Dean Coke commercials off the
radio in 1964, never guessing that so many years later I'd have
nearly a dozen different Coke cuts by J&D, or that Dean was not
even on them!
I also recall that the Supremes' Coke commercial actually made
the Top 40. KAAY in Little Rock played the Top 3 requests each
night around 7, and the Supremes' Coke Jingle made the list so
often that it hit the Top 40!
Doc
End
Spectropop text contents © Spectropop unless
stated otherwise.
All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright
protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.
