-------------------<
Actually, _high end_ was never that much of a problem, even in
the 1950s. The problem was figuring out a way to capture any of
the _low end_ (say, below 100 Hz) and get it on vinyl, without
causing the stylus to pop out of the groove (i.e., mistracking).
Even tube gear and old-fashioned mikes could easily get to 15
kHz three or four decades ago. I have plenty of old 1950s and
1960s recordings that have tons o' highs, with everything crisp
and clean and natural-sounding, even compared to today's
recordings. (Maybe even BETTER than some of today's recordings,
which are sometimes over-processed and harsh, IMHO.)
But in the case of Spector, I think there's so much going on in
his productions, typically you get a lot of phase cancellations,
layers and layers covering up high-frequency details, and so on,
so the overall effect can be muddy. It's a testament to his
skill as a producer that enough cut through to be audible, and
make the song a hit. And I think in some cases, he deliberately
would EQ the recordings to pull down the highs and boost other
frequencies for a desired effect. Often, the _echo_ during the
session has a totally different EQ than the lead vocal.
For a better example of this, check out the LENNON ANTHOLOGY,
which has got a whole bunch of Spector tracks from the 1973 ROCK
& ROLL sessions. Compare those to the songs produced by Lennon
for the same album; the sonic differences will knock you on your
butt. The Lennon tracks are 80% clearer, with a lot more high end;
I'd say that for whatever reason, Spector made the decision to
roll off the highs and boost the mids, maybe in an effort to come
up with a song that would pierce through AM radio.
Note also that there are two released CD versions of ALL THINGS
MUST PASS. I believe the American Capitol release used a lot
more NoNoise (or Cedar) noise-reduction processing than the
British EMI CD, so the American release is somewhat more muffled.
By comparison, the British CD was hissier, so it's a toss-up.
Either way, it was a noisy production, no question about it.
--MFW
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-= Marc Wielage | "The computerized authority =-
-= MusicTrax, LLC | on rock, pop, & soul." =-
-= Chatsworth, CA | XXXXXXXXtrax.com =-
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Subject: COMMENTING ON VARIOUS ITEMS FROM YOUR E-MAILS
Received: 02/23/99 7:17 am
From: Warren Cosford, raXXXXXXXXNet
To: Spectropop, SpectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Hi Folks:
My name is Warren Cosford. I've worked in radio and with the
music business for over 35 years....but like most of you, I'm
mostly just a fan. From my perspective, it was about 30 years
ago, that the history of rock and roll began to be told. The
first "window" was probably a multi-hour radio documentary
produced for RKO General in the U.S. by radio consultant Bill
Drake called The History of Rock and Roll.
It can not be overstated how influential Drake was on
determining what music was played on mainstream Top 40 radio
through the 1965-75 period. Most of the radio stations he
programmed had HUGE signals. KHJ Los Angeles, KFRC San Francisco,
CKLW Windsor/Detroit, WRKO Boston were the core of his
influence.( In the early '70's CKLW was #1 in Detroit, #1 in
Toledo and #1 in Cleveland!) He was also the guy that started
playing "Oldies" on weekends. Remember The Solid Gold Weekend?
For purposes of this list....aside from the power he had on
determining what got played on the most popular radio stations
almost everywhere, Drake's influence was that:
-he "legitimized" Oldies on the radio
-he influenced, technically, how a record was mixed and eq'd
-he influenced the length of records
I never worked for Drake....but, in a way, I worked against him.
In 1970, a Drake-influenced station in Toronto, CKFH, was making
major inroads on the market leader CHUM. As Production Manager,
I was among the people brought in by CHUM to do battle.
When CKFH announced they would be airing The History of R&R, we
produced The Story of The Beatles, a 12 hour program that we
eventually syndicated throughout the world. We would later
produce The Elvis Presley Story (12 hours) and The Evolution of
Rock (64 hours).
Producing these shows was very difficult because there were few
books written on rock music. So....we went to work trying to
find people to interview. One person led to another...led to
another...led to another. And while I have hundreds of hours of
interviews.....I realize now, that they only skimmed the surface
. For purposes of what we were doing at the time, our interviews
were merely "soundbites".
Reading the stories and trivia on this list is fascinating.
Twenty years ago, I knew more than most people about the history
of rock music. Today.....I only know more than most people in my
neighbourhood.
Some responses to various recent e-mails:
-I interviewed Tommy Allsup in my rental car in a parking lot
behind one of the Columbia studios in Nashville....probably
about 1975. Someone put me onto him because they said he'd had
"something to do with Buddy Holly". Prior to this interview, I'd
never heard the story about how he and Waylon Jennings had been
on the Winter Dance Party and had lost in coin flips with The
Big Bopper and Ritchie Valens to determine who would join Buddy
on the plane. Wish I'd known more.....so I could have asked him
more. I would have the same comment about almost everyone I
interviewed back then.
-Many of us in radio were almost obsessed with whatever would
make our stations sound louder, bigger, cleaner, crisper than
everyone else. We often eq'd and compressed records and
occasionally edited and sped them up. It was generally conceded
that CKLW had the best technical sound. And from a record
company perspective....having a record that sounded good on CKLW
meant that you were more likely to get "added" at CKLW. What
sounded good on AM radio back then, also usually sounded good on
the cheap Seabreeze-type record players that many kids owned.
Many of these same records today, sound terrible on FM radio and
home stereo systems.
I know very few people who were in power positions back then,
that thought The Music would mean very much in later years. For
example, the only reason that many programs, interviews, radio
jingles and various other artifacts from this era still exist
somewhere, is that a few of us rescued them from garbage cans.
Of course, today, a lot of this stuff is "a business" for some
people. Thank God.
So folks....keep up the good work on this list. Thanks to The
Internet we can now interact with many of the people who created
the music we love. I'm having a blast reading about.
WC
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Subject: Limiters in Frequency and Dynamics
Received: 02/22/99 7:22 am
From: Paul Urbahns, PaulurbXXXXXXXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Michael C. wrote:
> When did people start to make records that used
> the frequencies above 8k? What was stopping people from
> exploring that top end before?
The answer, Mike, is very simple - when AM radio stopped being
the dominante force. Prior to about 1975 records were mastered
and mixed with AM radio in mind. AM's top limit is around 8k on
some stations on others its sometimes not above 5k. Since any
record mastered could appear on radio at anytime, it was
necessary to make them sound best on that medium, thus the
limiting. Another radio item compression which was used
extensively on AM and some FMs probably still do, was sometime
applied to records. That's where the dynamic range of the song
hardly differs throughout the record. In radio they used
something called "volume max" at most of the stations I worked.
This device brought up the soft portions and lowered the volume
of the loud portions. It was adjustable so you could have as
much compression as possible or as little as you want. Even some
university and classical stations used it, which made classical
listeners mad, because the dynamics of a composition is very
critical in that type of music. For pop stations dynamics didn't
matter. The bottom line was by using this limiting device, you
could get a stronger signal in fringe areas. The old Dave Clark
Five singles are the best example of both in use that I can
think of. In Dave Clarks words, they had a commerical sound.
Glad All Over, Any Way You Want It, and others, not much dynamic
contrast (always loud) and highly compressed tonalquality to make
your transistor radio with a 2 inch speaker stand up and dance. I
know that's a little off your question, but I think it ties in.
Michael C again
>Then there is Pet Sounds which the original mono version sounds
>murky, yet the remixes are beautiful and crisp. What gives?
Same thing again, the original was mixed for AM radio the remixes
are off original studio tapes with no or little limiting.
Paul Urbahns
paulurbXXXXXXXXom
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Subject: Re: Larrie London on Motown 60s LA Recordings?
Received: 02/22/99 7:22 am
From: Carol Kaye, carolkXXXXXXXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Sean, yes I did work with Larrie London, Nashville drummer, out
here in LA in the 60s, he was around. I can't remember which
dates I did with him, but there were only a couple of them.
Sessions were called "dates" back then (like producers were
called "A&R men", Artists and Repertoire).
I don't think it was for Motown tho'. Maybe Ray Charles or
certainly some other account like that. He could have recorded
for Motown. I didn't know him well at all, just worked with him
2x, but from what I hear from others, if he said he played on
something, he wasn't lying ).
It was to that extent that Motown dates were done out here, and
it's why I think Lester Sill said (and meant) that over 60% of
all the 60s Motown dates were cut out here in LA. So yes, I'd
give credence to that report, of course.
I saw and even worked with Benny Benjamin, the original Detroit
drummer out here in LA, they flew him out for 2-3 dates that I
played bass on at Armin's Formosa studio (the one on top of his
large 3-car garage before he built the big one in Hollywood),
and that had to be early on.
But beware of some reports. I just got an email from someone who
knows a drummer (out of state) who toured with the Motown groups,
and so that person assumed that he also played on the 60s records
of Motown.
I never heard of this guy at all, wasn't part of the LA scene at
all, and upon questioning him, it turns out that yes the drummer
ONLY toured with Diana Ross, etc. and so the guy, not knowing
that tour musicians were different than studio musicians, made
the "assumption" which led him to say "yes he played on Motown
hits, don't you know him?"
Ignorance of our ways of life in the studios here can lead to
totally wrong assumptions. I remember Jesse Sailes (who
recommended me on guitar at first to Motown, played guitar for
about 1 year [1963], then it was bass the rest of the time
starting in 1964). Sharkey Hall was on some, then Earl Palmer on
the bulk, with Hal Blaine on 2-3 (w/Supremes). Paul Humphrey, Ed
Green, then Ben Barrett took over and tried to ace his "man"
Gene Pello on drums (nice guy, couldn't play well) for a short
time, and by this time I quit.
Arthur Wright was Motown's first bass player out here in 1963
and even Rene Hall did (Rene mostly played guitar tho'), then I
sort of did all the bass roles for quite a few years, but as I
understand it, and again, this fellow doesn't lie, Ray Pohlman
even did a few Motown dates, then it was Wilton Felder about the
time I quit, Bob West on the Jackson stuff, others like Ben
Adkins, in the 70s on Motown stuff.
Arthur Wright may have done some more then too as he did some
arrangements for Motown later on, early 70s etc. Jerry Long,
Gene Page, Gil Askey, James Carmichael (he was a reverend during
the time I worked for him in the early to mid-60s), even Lee
Young did the "arrangements" when I worked for Motown, then
David Blumberg, and Ed Cobb too. Some others, but mostly at
first, the bass parts were NOT written out, just a bar of
suggestive notes and rhythm.
We got wise after about 2 years when they started to play us
tapes to show us the style they wanted us to record, that what
we were cutting were NOT demos like they claimed (taking
advantage of what we sometimes did for "new" companies, doing
demos for them and then getting them in the Union). But we kept
working for them anyway.
I think this is when Tommy Tedesco got us the raise from 2 tunes
for $25 to 2 tunes for $35. It was about 1966-67 that someone
snitched to the Union and we all got 1,000s of dollars "back-pay"
through Ben Barrett, who, having jumped in to loan Motown his
recording license, paid us for what were marked "Motown" dates.
He did that from then on, with checks marked "Motown". It was a
sham, we always worked for the same people: Hal Davis, Frank
Wilson, and Marc Gordon. Berry Gordy was around sometimes, I'd
say from memory from 1965 on.
And we sometimes saw the artists too, like the 4 Tops all the
time, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye and Tami Terrell (she was great,
he was nice and could sing too, but not like her), other
groups -- my kids met them too. We saw the Supremes much later,
at first we'd just do tracks for them (as Armin Steiner told me,
he'd fly those tracks back to Detroit).
Yes, I saw and worked with Larrie London, I think it was for
someone other than Motown back then. He could have done some
Motown, I didn't do "all" the Motown in the 60s, Arthur Wright
or even Ray Pohlman could have been on bass with him, and I'd
tend to believe that report.
Even James Burton emailed something to someone about working for
Motown back then in LA. And yes, I'd believe that one too,
knowing James - he was pretty hot there for awhile in LA studios
until he went on the road with Elvis.
Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Timi Yuro's false death report
Received: 02/22/99 7:22 am
From: R Teyes, RTeXXXXXXXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
To All:
>From Robert The Ronette Hound
I was embarrased at my own negligence for believing what
someone wrote about Timi Yuro's false death report in this
newsletter. I have a friend who knows Timi very well and I made
him feel very disturbed when i gave him this false news. He
called Timi in Vegas immediately and didn't tell her-he just
wanted to be sure she was and is well. He then called me and let
me hear the message Timi left on his answ. machine. I almost
spoiled a budding friendship since my buddy A.L. wants to
introduce Timi to me initially by phone. She already knows I
collect her recordings.
I'm glad Timi Yuro is alive and I pray she stays that way for
a long time. I wish her health and happiness-that at least she'd
given to us her fans.
Thanks
Robert Tirado From Spanish Harlem
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Motown Very Best Of
Received: 02/22/99 7:22 am
From: Paul Urbahns, PaulurbXXXXXXXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
In a message dated 2/21/99 12:34:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spectroXXXXXXXXties.com writes:
> Motown's "Very Best Of" series is a mid-price catalog line
> focusing on legendary hit-making artists who currently have
> nothing in print, with no duplication from the label's
> front-line "Ultimate Collection" series. These hits-driven
> packages are digitally remastered from the original masters,
> using high-resolution 24-bit technology. The beautifully
> rendered packages also include full-track annotations and an
> essay written with or by the artist.
I saw this on the list. Are these reissues worth while or are
they more monomess from Rhino. Anymore, I don't buy Rhino
product unless it states stereo content on the cover. I've been
burned before. Just curious.
Paul Urbahns
paulurbXXXXXXXXom
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Velvelettes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Received: 02/22/99 7:22 am
From: WILLIAM STOS, wsXXXXXXXXt.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
> But while the quintet recorded several memorable sixties
> hits, an actual Velvelettes album was never issued. Until now.
Thank goodness! The Velvelettes have been so overlooked it's not
even funny. It's too bad that another recent Motown-Velvelettes
find "Everybody Needs Love," is not on that album, but I plan to
pre-order it nontheless! The Velvelettes and the Marvelettes have
an undeniable early soul sound that made Motown famous. Martha
and the Vandellas and the Supremes get most of the exposure from
Motown, but these two groups deserve much more recognition!
P.S. Very happy to know Timi Yuro is alive and well! I was all
ready to do a special tribute to her on my show!
Will Stos
The Girl Group Chronicles
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/2301/index.html
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