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Volume #0245 March 19, 1999
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A lifetime of pure listening enjoyment
Subject: The Girls' Scene
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: WILLIAM STOS, wsXXXXXXXXt.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Ian, this record sounds fantastic! How can I get a copy?
Do you sell them directly, or can I order it from my local
record store? What is the sound quality like on these
recordings? Liner notes?
Will
> The (Blue) Orchids - Oo Chang A Lang
> Adrienne Poster - Shang A Doo Lang
> Exceptions - Soldier Boy
> Lulu - Try To Understand
> Marianne Faithfull - Is This What I Get For Loving You?
> Jean Martin - Save The Last Dance For Me
> Vernons Girls - Only You Can Do It
> Antoinette - Jenny Let Him Go
> There's also Olivia Newton John's first record, "Til You
> Say You'll Be Mine", and a Joe Meek track, "My Friend Bobby"
> by Pamela Blue.
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Subject: The Girls' Scene
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Jamie LePage, le_page_XXXXXXXXties.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Ian Chapman wrote:
>Please don't think I'm using Spectropop to advertise...
To tell us about a new Brit GG comp? Are you kidding?
>...a CD I compiled featuring 60s girls who recorded for UK
>Decca is now out. It's called "The Girls' Scene" and is on
>Deram 844 897-2.
Upon reading this in ish #244, I immediately called my
local disc shop, confirmed they had a copy and picked it
up. Ian, this is great, great stuff. Anyone who enjoys the
Brit GG stuff on the Pye series "Here Comes the Girls" must
have this. Simply amazing.
First of all. perhaps my very favorite Joe Meek record
ever, "My Friend Bobby" by Pamela Blue is on here. Perfect
example of Joe Meek's distinctive style. Can't say enough
about this side. I have this on a Decca 2LP set called The
Joe Meek Story, but I have never seen it on CD before in
spite of the fabulous Joe Meek reissues that have been
issued in recent years. OK, Ian, you say in the liner
notes that this was her only release. What does the B side
sound like??? (side note - why do we not talk more of Joe
Meek here?)
Of additional interest are two very obscure Jagger/
Richards songs, one the celebrated Adrienne (Poster?)
Posta's "Shang A Doo Lang" which is Oldham doing faux
Spector. A great, great record. The other one, which I had
never heard before, is Vashti's "Some Things Just Stick in
Your Mind". Really interesting.
There are some clunkers on here too, but these too are
worth hearing, especially when they are covers of US GG
records. Marianne Faithfull's take on Ronnie's "Is This
What I Get For Loving You" is pathetic. The agony, longing,
anguish built into the lyric and so effectively
communicated in the Ronettes version is completely absent
here. Marianne sounds as cold as a Frigidaire on this. "Is
This What I Get For Loving You" may be perhaps my fave
Ronettes song ever, so I am probably very biased, but this
is very strange indeed! Didn't Oldham cover this again with
Billy Nicholls? It was far better there.
Bobbie Miller's cover of Raindrops' "What a Guy" is pretty
strange too. Bill Wyman produced - hey, don't give up your
day gig, Bill. I appreciate his ambition and resentment
at the lack of support from the Oldham/Jagger/Richards camp,
but this too is pretty dismal, particularly since he had
a better model to start with in the Raindrops version.
Great to have this on the comp, though, as it does
contribute to the overall UK Decca GG picture and gives us
an indication as to Wyman's abilities as a producer.
Some great surprises here too. The Donovan Leitch-penned
"You Just Gotta Know My Mind" by Dana Gillespie is an
unexpected Kinks-like rocker that sounds nothing like the
stuff Donovan recorded himself. I particularly like the
Wine/Bayer song "Nobody's Home To Go Home To" by Billie
Davis. Ian, you don't mention the original recording of
this song. Surely it must be a US artist. Do tell! This is
the most sophisticated song on the comp. I fell for this
immediately. Lulu's "Try To Understand" (Sawyer/Burton)
too is brilliant. Is this too a cover? If so, who
originally recorded it in US?
btw, The (Blue) Orchids - Oo Chang A Lang is absolutely
great! Will Stos: this one is for you! The CD closes with
the Exceptions' Soldier Boy (not a Shirelles cover). This
too is classic GG. Priceless. This track is essential GG.
The flute is so weird!
One complaint about the CD (don't hate me, Ian!) is that
there are not always producer/arranger credits. Also, I
THINK it's Nicky Hopkins on a track, but no musician
credits either, so I can't tell for sure. Since knowing
who worked on the record helps me to understand how a
record ended up sounding like it does, this is a bit of a
disappointment. Of course, your liner notes are
fascinating and very informative.
One quick question: the liner notes seem to have a typo.
About Louise Cordet, the liner notes read in part:
... [she] toured with the Beatles and Gerry and the
Pacemakers. (Gerry wrote "Don't Let The Sun Catch You
Crying for treatment of Mary Wells "Two Lovers" - her
final....
That doesn't make sense. Care to tell us what you intended
to say there? "Don't Let The Sun" is a great fave and I am
very curious to know what was omitted from the notes...
I can't recommend this CD enough. All girl group fans must
have this. Great job, Ian.
All the best,
Jamie
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Subject: Carol Kaye's remarks on Brian
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Bates, Robert (Cahners -NYC), robaXXXXXXXXrs.com
To: 'Spectropop List', spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Hi, Carol, thanks for the valuable posts. You mentioned
that you "quit working for Brian after meeting Manson."
Would you mind elaborating a bit on that? Did the two
actually hang out together? And what was it like to
actually meet a sick man like Manson?
Regards,
Rob B.
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Subject: Q
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Ron Bierma, ELRONXXXXXXXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
In a message dated 3/17/99 12:38:28 PM, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com writes:
>yesterday at a Recording Industry Association of America
>luncheon that honored him, Elton John, Kenny Rogers, Led
>Zeppelin and Kenny G.
Why is ANYONE honoring Kenny G ? Is there another one more
deserving?
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Subject: Re: record speeds/Fresh
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Stewart Mason, flamiXXXXXXXXcom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
Marc Miller asks:
>I don't believe this fact has come up in the recent
>discussion about 45's/33 etc. If it has, forgive me. I
>have read in at least one place that the speed of 45 RPM
>was arrived at by subtracting 33 from 78. Anyone know if
>that's true?
I feel kinda silly answering this question in front of our
own Dave Feldman (I know we shouldn't plug our own stuff
here, but we can still plug each other: I cannot recommend
Dave's Imponderables books more highly. Immensely
entertaining stuff), but this comes from THE STRAIGHT DOPE
(Ballantine, 1984, pp. 258-60) by Dave's friendly rival,
the godlike Cecil Adams: "Just as Emile Berliner [inventor
of the 78 prototype] had adapted his disc to meet the
standard of the Edison cylinder, RCA had designed the 45
to conform to the 78 -- it offered the same playing time,
somewhat improved fidelity and the dubious advantage of
being more "convenient" because the discs were smaller. In
presenting the 45, RCA unloaded some drivel about how 45
RPM was the optimum speed for sound reproduction, but it
was revealed that in fact RCA had told its engineers to
come up with any old speed so long as it wasn't compatible
with Columbia's [microgroove 33.3 12" LPs] system. The big
hole was apparently supposed to make the two types of
records even more incompatible."
Elsewhere, Unca Cecil says that Berliner's discs had their
speed standardized at 78 RPM by the first electric
phonographs in 1925. Before this, people had just cranked
the phonograph until it sounded right to them (70-80 RPM),
but the speed was set at 78.26 because that was the RPM you
get if you fit a common 46:1 gear to an equally common 3600
RPM motor. Cecil doesn't say what gears are used to get
33.3 RPM or 45 RPM, but since obviously the motor must be
the same (otherwise we couldn't have multi-speed
turntables), my assumption is that the speeds for 33s and
45s were also arrived at because of gear ratios. The 78 -
33 = 45 theory, I would imagine, must just be a
coincidence.
I realize that the foregoing just barely qualifies as list
content, so I'll ask a 60s pop question: Is anyone here
familiar with a Simon Napier-Bell project from 1970 called
Fresh? Their LP is called FRESH OUT OF BORSTAL, and the
liner notes claim that all the band members are teenage
JDs who had spent time in the UK juvenile correctional
system. I kinda doubt it. Songs include Rolling Stones
covers and a number of Napier-Bell originals that have a
rather, ah, Jean Genet subtext, if you know what I mean.
Net searches reveal squat. Does anyone know anything at
all about this LP? It's recommended if you want the
missing link between freakbeat and glam rock.
Stewart
***************************FLAMINGO RECORDS***************************
Stewart Allensworth Mason "Why didn't they just turn it off?
Box 40172 I didn't call the police when
Albuquerque NM 87196 Forrest Gump started running!"
www.rt66.com/~flamingo
*********************HAPPY MUSIC FOR NICE PEOPLE**********************
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Subject: Re: The Teardrops
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Ron Sauer, RGSaXXXXXXXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
In a message dated 99-03-13 16:20:35 EST, you write:
>I was just asked about a group called the Teardrops,
>possibly from Cincinnati. I'll pass on the message. Any
>clues? I believe I have a song called "You Won't Be There,"
>by them which I really love, but it could be a different
>group.
>
>"I was wondering if you have heard of a girl group,
>possibly from here in Cincinnati called the Teardrops. I
>just picked up three 45s by the group today. They are
>early 60s, on Saxony Records, which is out of Cincinnati.
>The records look rather new, though I could be wrong about
>that. That tracks are: That's Why I'll Get By b/w Tonight
>I'm Gonna Fall In Love Again, I'm Gonna Steal Your
>Boyfriend (same on both sides), and I Will Love You Dear
>Forever b/w Bubblegummer. All of the tracks are written by
>a Paul Trefzger and produced by Bud Reneau. Any clues?
>Thanks.
>
>Chris"
The Teardrops were indeed a Cincinnati girl group from
around 1965/66. They had two local hits that I'm aware of.
"Tonight I'm Gonna Fall in Love Again" and "Tears Come
Tumbling". (The flip was "You Won't Be There") Saxony was
a local label, distributed by Fraternity. "Tears Come
Tumbling" was picked up by Musicor and was a minor hit in
Boston. "Tears Come Tumbling" is a favorite of mine. "I
Will Love You My Dear Forever" was just issued a few years
ago. I found it in a local shop that specialized in 45's
and the owner told me that it was a new issue of on old
song. I met one of the young ladies some years ago. Her
name was Tinker. That's all the info I have.
Someone mentioned that the Lemon Pipers were from Cleveland.
That isn't true. They were from the Cincinnati area. Most
were going to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. They were
originally called Tony and the Bandits and had a different
lead singer. They won the first (and I believe only) Battle
of the Bands on the Shindig TV show. They had a single out
on Decca called "It's a Bit of Alright". (originally on
Flo-Roe Records.) Tony Brazis, their lead singer, joined
another local group - Ivan and the Sabres. Initially the
group kept that name, but changed it in the late sixties
to the Sixth Day Creation. Ivan Browne, the lead singer of
Ivan and the Sabres, joined the remaining Bandits to form
the Lemon Pipers. When Ivan was with the Sabres, they had
a great garage record called "Just Let Her Go" on the
Prism label.
All of this is as I remember it.
Ron
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Subject: Smile
Received: 03/19/99 12:13 am
From: Steve Marinucci, abbeXXXXXXXXcom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com
>> I'd like to express what seems to be a minority opinion,
>> that the stuff that's emerged from the Beach Boys' "Smile"
>> sessions isn't all that exciting and pales in comparison
>> with the stuff Brian was producing in '64-65.
>>-------------------
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