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Volume #0398 March 26, 2000
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Stereo has Come of Age
Subject: Spector Xmas and Ronettes on 4 track
Received: 03/25/00 6:01 am
From: WASE RADIO
To: Spectropop!
To Jamie LePage:
In your mention about the Stan Ross quote concerning that
the Spector Xmas and Ronettes material was recorded on 4
track, I thought some instances might lend some credence
to this. On "Walking in the Rain" heard in stereo, the
thunderstorm effects is first heard left then pans quickly
to the right when the music starts on the left. The
background vocals are heard on the right then Ronnie's
voice is heard right. Now here is the scoop. On the
playout of the song you hear the rhythm section on the
left channel, Her ooohh oh vocal in the center and
background vocals on the right-and at the same time you
hear the thunderstorm effect start on the left then pans
to the right. You are hearing four tracks of sound on that
passage. Some of the other Ronettes songs have the
background vocals on the right-on "Walking in the Rain",
"Do I Love You?", "The Best Part of Breaking Up". On the
songs "Be My Baby" and "Baby I Love You" the background
vocals are heard in the center with the lead with the
majestic Jack Nitszche strings taking up the right channel.
Could it be a three or four track project on those
aforemtioned songs? There were a couple of Ronettes songs
that were not recorded at Gold Star-"When I Saw You" and
"So Young". According to the Phil Spector box set, these
cuts were recorded at United Studios, also in
Hollywood-possibly on four tracks.
Also your part about the technique of bouncing vocal
tracks on the 1958 Teddy Bears recordings, brings back a
memory of reading something in Mark Ribowsky's somewhat
scathing book on Spector. One day Phil experimented with
having the back track to play through the speakers as he
was recording his vocal. In other words he was allowing
that playback to be recorded into the mike he was singing
into. It suposedly created an echo effect.
More later. Got get to get back to work
Michael G. Marvin
WASE radio
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Subject: I&TT/Gold Star
Received: 03/25/00 6:01 am
From: Phil Chapman
To: Spectropop!
Jamie asks:
> Finally, does anyone know if the I&TT album on A&M was
> mixed in stereo at Gold Star or A&M, and how many tracks
> were used for these recordings?
The 1966 UK album "River Deep - Mountan High" was issued
in stereo(SHU 8298)and contains more or less the same
mixes as the later A&M release. They are probably 4-track:
Rhythm, orchestral, lead, backgrounds. The Checkmates Ltd
album however sounds 8 track to me, possibly: 1. Drums,
bass, percussion (still too early for a stereo drumkit)
2. Keyboards, guitars
3 & 4. Strings & Brass in stereo
5 & 6. Background vocals in stereo
7. Lead Vocal
8. Solo instrument
Although there is no credit, I can't see why it wouldn't
have been recorded & mixed at Gold Star. As far as I can
ascertain, the leading studios went 8-track around 1967
and progressed thru 16-track to 24-track by around 1973.
Phil
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Subject: three 24 tracks when Gold Star closed
Received: 03/25/00 6:01 am
From: WASE RADIO
To: Spectropop!
Hi Jamie:
I don't know when Gold Star has added on more tracks, but
I do know that when the facility was closed down in March
1984, they had three studios all with 24 tracks. I have
somewheres a letter from Johnette at Gold Star that I
received in March 1983. If I can find it, I like to post
it.
Happy listening to everyone:):):):):)
Michael G. Marvin
WASE radio
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Subject: Re: Bruce Botnick
Received: 03/24/00 8:00 am
From: Stewart Mason
To: Spectropop!
Jamie LePage says:
>Bruce Botnick's name on the Expecting to Fly credits do
>indicate that the side was not cut at Gold Star. To the
>best of my knowledge, Botnick did not regularly work at
>Gold Star. It is important to note that Dave Gold custom
>built Gold Star's board and (at least to a certain extent)
>an engineer would have to be familiar with Gold's
>equipment to be able to comfortably work there.
>Consequently, the studio's in-house engineers are the
>names we most often associate with Gold Star recordings.
>Does anyone know of Botnick working at Gold Star? Steve
>Kurutz writes at AMG: "After landing a gig at L.A.'s
>Sunset Sound in 1963, Botnick found himself engineering
>at a time when the West Coast was exploding onto the
>national consciousness." Can anyone confirm whether or
>not Botnick was a staff producer for Elektra in the late
>60s?
In FOLLOW THE MUSIC (FirstMedia, 1998), Jac Holzman's
combination autobiography/oral history of Elektra Records,
Jac talks about meeting Bruce Botnick while he was looking
for a studio to record Love's debut in: "We had heard good
things about Sunset Sound....I decided to check out the
facilities early, look into the mixing board, four-track
Ampexes, available mikes and schmooze with the engineer
assigned to Mark Abramson and me. I sauntered in and saw
this kid, whom I took to be no more than 19, deftly moving
his fingers over the console and generally looking like he
knew what he was doing. He told me his name was Bruce
Botnick."
Actually, in the accompanying picture of Bruce at the
Sunset Sound console in 1966, he looks *maybe* 16!
Definitely Mr. Babyface!
Elsewhere in the book, when talking about engineering the
Doors' sessions at Sunset Sound under Paul Rothchild,
Bruce says that Sunset Sound "was built basically to do
Disney records, which [studio owner] Tutti Camarata was
head of. So we'd be doing Mickey and Minnie and Cinderella
in the daytime, and in the afternoon and night doing the
Doors. It was really Disney's house, and to have a little
madness in there kind of made things uncomfortable for
Tutti."
This suggests that at least through early '67, it was the
folks at Sunset Sound who signed Bruce Botnick's checks,
not Elektra, which makes it unlikely that he did much work
at other studios during this period. The question is, when
exactly was "Expecting To Fly" recorded?
Later in the book, Botnick talks about outfitting
Elektra's new studio on La Cienega Boulevard and going to
Ann Arbor with Jac to meet and record the MC5, so
apparently Botnick was on Elektra's payroll by at least
mid-'68.
This reminds me. I realize that "Jac" is short for "Jacob,"
but is it pronounced "Jake" or "Jack"?
Jamie and JimmyC also mention:
>n.p. Billy Spradlin's Girlpop @ live365.com - Great!!!!!
I also recommend Billy's other Live365 station, Jangle
Radio, if you like more contemporary guitar pop. And if I
may be so immodest, my own live365 station, "The Craig
Torso Show" (obscure Bonzo Dog Band ref) might pique some
folks' interest. Focusing mostly on contemporary pop music
obscure even by the standards of folks who go looking for
obscure pop music on the net, the playlist also ranges
from Sidney Bechet to John Cage. Not terribly
Spectropoppish, but I like it.
Stewart
NP: Linda Perhacs -- Parallelograms (acid chamber folk
from 1970, a beautiful, crystalline, and extremely odd
album)
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Subject: Come Dancin' !!!
Received: 03/25/00 6:01 am
From: Jimmy Cresitelli
To: Spectropop!
Just heard the Popsicles' "Baby I Miss You" on Mr.
Spradlin's fabulous Girlpop station, and I think I am
ready to join that angelic background chorus. As for the
rest of you, I haven't seen much in the way of girl group
moments here in a while, so... here's your Spring
Challenge: describe for me your ONE defining girl-group
musical moment. Not just a song, mind you: a piece of a
song would suffice... for me it's Darlene Love opening up
"A Fine, Fine Boy" with her spoken intro, putting just the
right amount of oomph into "now there are boys, and there
are boys..." Come on, the rest of you... details! We need
to get dancing on here!
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Subject: Re: Isn't She Great - is Bacharach still great?
Received: 03/26/00 8:00 pm
From: Frank N. Stein
To: Spectropop!
David Ponak wrote:
>I'm one of the biggest Bacharach fans out there, I love
>the guy, however, it pains me to tell you that the "Isn't
>She Great" soundtrack is just unlistenable. This isn't the
>Bacharach of "Painted From Memory," it's sounds more like
>the work of the man who wrote "On My Own" and "That's What
>Friends Are For."
I saw the track listing and it's at least good that it's a
proper soundtrack, with incidental music and a few songs
inbetween. Just like in the old days. The production aside,
how does the incidental music hold up to previous
soundtracks like After The Fox or What's New Pussycat, or
Arthur 2 for that matter? And the Dionne Warwick songs
written by Burt and Hal?
>DX7 keyboard sounds abound. The whole thing is very 80's
MOR.
So there aren't any orchestral, uh, orchestrations, with
strings, flutes, horns and such? Just keyboards and
synthesizers?
>It makes me wonder if some of the great Bacharachisms of
"Painted From Memory" >may have been created (or at least
prompted) by Elvis Costello.
Funny. Isn't this the same debate as the one which
sometimes pops up about Brian Wilson? That Brian's talents
have diminished, that he can't write anything good on his
own, that his collaborators (Paley, VDP, Thomas, etc, etc)
do most of the work? And at the same time, those
collaborators always say "no no, Brian is still great and
in charge, we just add a few things here and there"...
Carol Kaye, did you only play on the released 1997 version
of Brian's "Everything I Need" on the "The Wilsons" CD, or
did you also play on the unreleased original (from 1995?)?
The song is quite something, don't you think?
Anyway, I'm pretty sure a lot of the things on Painted
From Memory which sound like Bacharach were in fact
written by Costello. But it's ok, really. Bacharach is
over 70 years old. It'd be ridiculous to expect him to
come up with music as innovative and great as thirty years
ago. If he does, brilliant, but it's not the end of the
world if he ends his career with a few misses. That's kind
of how I feel about Brian too.
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Subject: Nilsson's Coconuts
Received: 03/24/00 8:00 am
From: Sean Anglum
To: Spectropop!
Greetings All,
Hope this ques is in with everyones wavelengths on this
great list. I used to work at a NPR station that played
alternative and, to a much lesser extent, some good rock
and pop. One DJ, in particular, would occassionally plat a
version of Harry Nilsson's "Coconuts" that I had never
heard before. What set it apart was the ending. During the
elongated fade, Harry and band and chorus broke in a breif
version of "Flying", the instrumental from Magical Mystery
Tour. Unfortunately the DJ was canned and must have taken
that particular track (off an LP?? 12" single?? Foreign
pressing??) with him. Please, please, please.....if anyone
knows where I can find this gem e-mail me privately and
fill me in on how to secure a copy. Thanx!!
Raised On records,
Sean Anglum
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