http://www.spectropop.com
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"there never was another era like that since and there never will be"
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There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this Digest Number 136:
1. Re: Spector box set
From: Marc Wielage
2. Finally something about Spector
From: James Botticelli
3. Philles & Laurie Singles
From: Jimmy Crescitelli
4. Dion
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
5. Re: Dion "Born To Be With You"
From: Ted T.
6. New Members. Old Groups. Exploitation
From: James Botticelli
7. Johnny Tillotson quick comment
From: "Jack Madani"
8. Re: Sonny and Cher
From: Carol Kaye
9. Help needed - discography of Jerry Ross' Colossus Label 45s
From: Toni-Lynn
10. New file uploaded to spectropop
From: Spectropop Admin
11. Re: The Cake
From: Allen Toombs
12. Pattern People & The Popcorn Explosion
From: Brian Chidester
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:43:30 -0800
From: Marc Wielage
Subject: Re: Spector box set
john rausch commented on the Spectropop Group:
> And speaking of Spector. I want to mention to the group
> that Mark Ribowsky book "He's A Rebel" has been reissued
> and is now available in its entirety from the original
> '90s version that was taken off the market due to some
> legal reasons with Mr. Spector. So if you didn't get it
> first time around it is available again.
>-----------------------------------<
Speaking of that, I have both editions of the book, but
I never got a straight story on exactly what was changed
in the "bowdlerized" edition.
To save me the trouble, does anybody know exactly what
Ribowsky was forced to change in the 2nd edition?
I was surprised when that story hit about 10 years ago,
because I've gone through the original book fairly
recently, and noted that the author lavished praise on
nearly every Spector production. Granted, Phil had a
lot of quirks and was extremely moody (to say the least).
But I didn't see anything that was all _that_ scandalous.
(On the other hand, maybe I've just lived in LA for far
too long!)
--MFW
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-= Marc Wielage | "The computerized authority =-
-= MusicTrax, LLC | on rock, pop, & soul." =-
-= Chatsworth, CA | =-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 03:36:00 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Finally something about Spector
This guy I know that used to listen to me on the radio
is always trying to impress me...I feel like saying
"Chill Chief, we're all schmucks, just git wid it, yo."
Anyways, this guy is a stereo FANATIC with a capital F.
Today he gives me a burned CD of Phil Spector produced
hits--the familiar stuff BTW-- IN STEREO. I haven't
listened to it yet, but I did hear the recording "How
Does It Feel" by The Ronettes in stereo a few years
back (not electronically enhanced either). So, the
question is.......Did Mr. "Back To Mono" actually
record his stuff in stereo as well?
JB
Curious in Boston
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 05:42:25 EST
From: Jimmy Crescitelli
Subject: Philles & Laurie Singles
In a message dated 3/25/01, Al Q. writes:
> This may be a heretical thing to say here, but I was
> quite disappointed by the Wall of Sound box. Although it
> has a wonderful selection of material, it sounds shallow
> and thin, especially when compared to the original
> singles, most of which I've owned at one time or another.
>
> Al Q.
> NY
>
Ya know, I have to agree. I was introduced to all those
Spector Crystals / Ronettes singles by friends and
cousins who gave them to me in 1970-1971; I also filled
out my collection at Kape Records in Brooklyn (that was a
whole other experience). I've always thought the sound on
them was better than any CD reproduction; I guess I just
prefer the greasy original 45's because they sound so
rich and full. It's like each little black disk explodes
with song when you place it on the turntable and play it...
the CD versions don't seem to be able to "keep up" in my
opinion.
That also goes for my Chiffons singles... "I Have A
Boyfriend" never sounds better than it does on its
original Laurie 45.
Jim Crescitelli
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:48:13 +0100
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
Subject: Dion
Interesting to read Guy Thomas' comments about Dion. I
reckon the man to be one the absolute top men in
rock/pop, with a voice that is as sharp now as it was in
'58, as is witnessed on the totally wonderful "Deja Nu"
album from last year (If you haven't got this, I'd
reckon it to be an essential purchase for the majority
of people on this site - great songs, performances and
held-back production).
The album was incidently conceived as a soundtrack to a
film of Dion's life that didn't materialise. Each song
had a planned scene for it, so you get the one from the
'Winter Dance Party' tour called "Hug My Radiator" which
recalls the feeling of the extreme cold they all had to
endure that winter on that tour, when all Dion could
think about was to reach the motel or whatever and
crouch around some heat before tryong to perform like it
was mid-summer! Check out other songs for other aspects,
like the Holly tribute one.
We are so lucky to still have Dion with us - not as a
shadow of himself doing oldies package shows endlessly
retreading a few hits, but as a totally committed artist
of 2001 still making fab records! He didn't get on that
plane on that tour because the fare was the same amount
as his parents monthly rent and he couldn't bring
himself to pay that much...so we still have him.
Kingsley Abbott
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:54:28 -0800
From: Ted T.
Subject: Re: Dion "Born To Be With You"
Hi, I'm one of those terrible lurkers who is wowed by the
Spectropop group and who is ashamed about never finding
the time to contribute. You're all terrific, and many
special thanks to Ms. Kaye, who really illuminates the
entire R&R landscape with her facts and insights.
1) Born To Be With You. For me, this side (the full 6
minute plus version) is not only the best record Phil
ever made, but remains the greatest record ANYBODY has
ever made, period. Believe me, I am not making this
statement lightly: it's taken me the better part of 50
years of intense listening to everything I can get my
ears on to reach this conclusion. The record, however, is
not an easy record to get into. When I play it for people,
I usually make sure it's about 3 in the morning, the room
is dark, and everybody is in a "been everywhere, done
everything, ready to turn the page" mood.
Of course, it's not for all tastes. If you're a student
of Alfred Hitchcock, it's like "Vertigo" or "Marnie"
compared to "The 39 Steps" or "The Lady Vanishes". All
four are great movies, but the later films are on an
entirely different spiritual plane. They tear your heart
out.
Taken as a whole, however, the Born To Be With You LP is
a mixed bag. For me, there are three standout sides: 1)
the title song, 02 ) Only You Know and 3) In and Out of
Shadows. The last two are Goffin-Spector collaborations.
(Note: on some UK pressings of the album, the liner notes
list "In and Out of Shadows" as "In and Out of Showers".)
The three other Spector productions on the album are less
interesting to me. The Mann-Weil song, "Make the Woman
Love Me", has moments of great beauty in it, but Dion
sounds too shrill. (This song is listed as "Make the
World Love Me" on some pressings. Must have had some
great proofreaders at Polydor in those days.)
Finally, "Good Lovin' Man" is atrocious, and "He's Got
the Whole World In His Hands", is OK but nothing very
special.
The album is rounded out by reissues of two excellent
sides from Dion's folk-rock period, "Your Own Back Yard"
(produced by Phil Gernhard) and "New York City Song"
(produced by Cashman & West).
The Spector production "Baby, Let's Stick Together"
doesn't figure on the Born To Be With You LP, but was
issued as a single, and later turned up on the Phil
Spector 74-79 Polydor album. I don't really like this
side, because it's overall mood seems a little forced. I
don't know if Springsteen played guitar on it, but Melody
Maker editor Ray Coleman was at one of the sessions and
wrote a piece about it, noting that Springsteen was a
guest in the booth with Spector, and that this was their
first meeting, something that Springsteen had long been
looking forward to.
2) A couple of questions for everybody. As long as I'm
on the page, I would be grateful for help with these two
questions. First, does anybody know what has become of
British rock writer and Spector biographer, Richard
Williams? I corresponded with Richard briefly in the
1970s during his A&R stint at Island Records. From there
he went back to Melody Maker, and then, in the 1980s, to
the London newspaper The Times. But I've lost track since
then.
My second question concerns the famous 1964 David
Susskind TV show (the one Tom Wolfe immortalized in his
essay on Spector). I saw the program twice, when it was
run and re-run in New York, and there were several other
panelists on it. One, of course, was the WNEW "quality
music" DJ, William B. Williams. Also present were WINS
icon, Murray the "K" (highly articulate and a staunch
defender of Phil on the program when he was being
attacked by William B.) and teen queen Lesley Gore (fresh
>from Sarah Lawrence, but not very talkative on the show).
But there were one or two other people on the show, whose
names I don't recall. Can anybody help? Also, does
anybody know if tapes (or even a transcript of this
program have survived? It was certainly a landmark for
all Spector fans.
Thanks much, Ted T.
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:01:02 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: New Members. Old Groups. Exploitation
There was some mention of "new members" in old groups,
etc as part of the Girl Group special on PBS...I've
already commented on that particular form of highbrow
exploitiation of pop culture to get peeple to dial with
dollars, so I'll let THAT be (thankfully, you say!). But
the book has yet to be written on groups consisting
entirely of new members carrying the old name only, more
than one touring group with the same name, illegitimate
usage of names of groups by part time former members and
fill-ins, and so on...Over the years I have heard
stories about The Drifters, Platters, Wilson Pickett,
three touring duos of Sam & Dave simultaneously, shells
of former selves, look-a-likes, yadayadayada....Comments
anyone??
JB
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:04:17 -0500
From: "Jack Madani"
Subject: Johnny Tillotson quick comment
Johnny Tillotson was mentioned in a completely different
context in the previous post--all I wanted to say was
that he sang the totally awesome Sinatra-styled theme
song to the tv show version of Gidget, starring Sally
Field. Great show, even greater theme song. Man, I
still remember the whole lyric and will gladly sing it
for you any time you like.
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 10:58:57 -0800
From: Carol Kaye
Subject: Re: Sonny and Cher
You're right, they were in love, and a great couple,
sometimes even a little spat in the studio which made
the dates even that more intense, but fun as Cher would
get a little pissed and go play percussion with the
percussion section (unlike Sonny, she had a good sense
of "time" :-) They were a fun-couple, and I enjoyed
recording for them both, and have spent a little time
talking with Cher too, she was proud of her Mustang
with the pink fur....and we'd laugh. Here's what I had
written before -
Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com
The subject of Sonny Bono came up tonight while I was
speaking to some people. Just was thinking of what he
had last told me when I first came back to Calif. early
summer of 1993 when I visited with him in his posh
dinner restaurant in Palm Springs.
He seemed completely at ease, was planning for his
future role in politics and we discussed about his
serious plans to do a Broadway production too,
interesting.
We had some laughs, and then he deadpanned "Carol, you
know we saw the BEST of it in the 60s, there never was
another era like that since and there never will
be"....I somewhat agreed with him, but kept in the back
of my head "if I could really play again, get another
surgery that would allow me to play bass
again...hmmm....we'll see about that!" Well, I got the
surgery, am playing but he's right...it's over, no era
again for the bass like it was then.
Then as if on cue, he started speaking about Cher, but
not in a sentimental way just as a matter of course.
"Carol, I made Cher, I know that, but she hasn't quite
realized that yet"...he wasn't feeling sorry for
himself, he was much too much of a great individual for
that.
I've always known that Sonny NEVER did get his due (my
saying that to him made him feel a little better I know
- he knew I *knew*, but actually he was alright without
all the hoopla, and it was OK with him).
The public bought that TV image he had so carefully
crafted, and even when he was on the Lettermen show,
the "old Sonny" sort of popped out - the "almost-losing
it" guy, he was so good at that...if only everyone knew
him like I saw him.
Sonny was this sophisticated suave cock-sure man I was
sitting across from at the table in his restaurant. He
was himself with me, the fine producer he was - the
self-made man, probably better than Phil Spector ever
could be, someone who knew what he was and what he had
done. The fact that the public never knew, and probably
will never know didn't bother him in the least, that's
how confident he was. And gracious to a fault.
A short time ago, I finally saw all the film on TV of
Cher at Sonny's funeral, a funeral I almost went to,
but just couldn't, it broke me up quite a bit when he
died, it was so senseless. But Cher's tears were real,
got me pretty well shaken up. I have to say: "Sonny, I
know that Cher knows now what you did for her". God
Bless.
----------------------------------------------------
Well, Sonny was someone special you bet and I liked
Cher too, while a little aloof at first on the record
dates, I think because she was so young, I found her to
be really a great gal.
The public had/has a certain image of Sonny that was
so totally false, but he even surprised us with his
later breadth of thinking, he was truly special. He
did care what the public tho't of him but knew and
used the total imagery that is projected by Hollywood
to its full degree too, to get "Sonny & Cher" going.
See my new post about him in answer to Joseph's post
too:
Joseph posted:
> Hi Carol,
>
> Sure appreciated this post of yours.
>
> Re Sonny's success in music, I think the proof's in the
> pudding there. You don't accomplish all that without
> knowing what you're doing. There aren't any Forrest
> Gumps in the real world.
>
> Re the silly pretend persona he invented at the time of
> the TV show, he brought a lot of people enjoyment with
> that... so score two for Sonny as talented entertainer.
> (Stan Laurel and Lou Costello were very intelligent men
> too.)
>
> I'm glad to hear Sonny didn't really care what people
> thought of him. He had bigger fish to fry, like passing
> laws protecting musicians' rights.
> Best,
> Joseph
And I answered his post with:
Joseph, right with all you said. He was sure a great
wit on his TV show with Cher alright, perfect timing
with the comedy.
We used to kid him when he'd try to sit in with the
rhythm section and bang on tambourines (Cher later did
that too, she was better at it) on record dates. He
couldn't even pat his foot in time, let alone play a
percussion section instrument in time and when Phil
would get ready to roll a take, he'd "call Sonny in to
answer a phone call" and start the take as soon as he
was out of the room. But when we all worked for Sonny
shortly thereafter, you saw the brilliance he had in
producing, whew!
Sonny could definitely call the shots to get the hit
record rolling and then later wrote about it in his
book (and gave newspaper interviews too) about how the
studio musicians "helped him with his little dittys
which were 'nothing' tunes", think that's what he said
in the newspapers, and that struck me as he was the
absolute FIRST to talk about us and give us some
credits publicly -- I've said it was Brian Wilson and
his Pet Sounds booklet, but no, I was wrong, Sonny did
that about 1990 when his book came out....really made
an impression on how much he appreciated us at that
time.
When I spoke to him about this in '93, he just
pooh-poohed it, just run of the mill for him. I do
believe his strong Italian heritage and sense of his
real self and what he could really do kept him together
when he had a few hard times there temporarily while
Cher's star kept rising and rising. He had a nice
place in Houston when I motored into that city and I
left him a note at the restaurant there in the 80s, but
never heard from him. Think he was possibly gone by
that time.
He was very happy with wife Mary tho', finally was the
family man he always wanted to be with her and happy in
Palm Springs where he did a good job as mayor. But he
really surprised me speaking seriously about it all in
Palm Springs, and tho' I always knew he was a brilliant
man, I didn't realize how brilliant until he spoke
confidently and intelligently about politics.
Right after that I spent time with his realtor friend
Chip, who really knew him too and wow....was just
amazed at my former boss. To be familiar with someone
like Sonny and not realize the depths and breadth of
what he was capable of doing in the wide arena of
politics on ALL subjects was an eye-opener to even
me....I'll never forget it.
And at a time in my life when I needed a little pat on
the back, he so graciously gave that to me and more.
Such a man. When I heard he died, was very upset, as I
knew he was on the verge of becoming one of our great
statesmen and truly help our country. He wasn't afraid
to be himself at all, and knew enough about the
Hollywood image to separate himself from it and do what
was in his heart and mind, no problem. Here's what Ben
Valley, AirForce One cockpit designer says about Sonny
also:
> Thanks for the email on Sonny. I always felt he was
> under appreciated. I will be forever impressed by the
> one time I met him at his restaurant over on Robertson
> in BH. He was in a white restaurant-kitchen outfit
> picking up trash in the parking lot....hardly a spoiled
> "star". Just a down to earth guy.
I think the public and especially the news media were
very surprised the outpouring of love, affection, and
admiraton for Sonny Bono at the time of his funeral.
He was yet to prove how great he was at politics, in the
sense of where he wanted to go with it, but he
definitely turned a lot of heads while in office and
made his mark already with that. I know he'd probably
be one of the greats and honest to boot to try to do
something for our country that was worthy. Yes, I miss
him.
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 20:09:14 -0000
From: Toni-Lynn
Subject: Help needed - discography of Jerry Ross' Colossus Label 45s
I am trying to put together a discography of the 45s
issued on Jerry Ross' Colossus Label. The label, as many
of you know, was active from about 1969 through 1971 and
is best known for spearheading the what might be called
the Dutch Invasion with hits by the Tee Set, Shocking
Blue, and George Baker Selection. The label was so much
more than those 3 hits. To the best of my knowledge 47
singles were released (100 to 146)
I have placed a file in the files area that is my
attempt to put together the discography. Here are a few
notes on the holes that I hope someone can help me to
fill, and few comments on the other gems in the list.
First -- what I'm missing:
A-side and B-side missing:
101, 105, 106, 109, 115, 120, 121, 122, 125, 126, 127,
129, 131, 133, 135, 126, 137, 138, 140, 143
B-side missing:
102, 103, 104, 113, 139
Some of the overlooked gems (and not gems) are:
Ganip Ganop -- Colossus does Super K!
Italian Asphalt & Paving Company -- actually the
Duprees Jerry Ross Symposium -- Jerry does lounge music
proud
Crystal Mansion -- Early, if not the first, James Taylor
cover with their release of his Carolina in my Mind.
B-side sound like duck farts, though!
Devonnes -- lovely Philly girl soul sound a la the Three
Degrees. Shoulda beena hit!
The Mob -- great soul sound with covers of Money and
Carole King's Where You Lead
Can anyone help out with filling the holes in this list?
Toni-Lynn
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:24:47 +0900
From: Spectropop Admin
Subject: New file uploaded to spectropop
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know
that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
Spectropop Group.
File : /Jerry_Ross_Colossus_45s.txt
Description : A discography of the 45s on Colossus
You can access the file at the URL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/Jerry_Ross_Colossus_45s.txt
Thank you for your interest in the Spectropop Group.
Regards,
The Spectropop Admin Team
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:16:07 +0900
From: Allen Toombs
Subject: Re: The Cake
I knew two of the girls, Eleanor and Jeanette, back in
the late sixties. They were living in New York and
hanging around Steve Paul's The Scene, THE rock club in
that era. If they weren't full fledged groupies, they
were real close. As I recall, Jeanette married one of
the guys from Traffic. Don't know how long that lasted.
I remember liking one or two songs on the album I heard
(on Decca?) and would love to hear the best tracks again.
I've got Baby That's Me, but I didn't realize it was the
same group. Any chance one of you folks with the actual
albums are on Napster? I'd love to hear a few more of
the good tracks. Another hazy memory to share: Greene
and Stone were actually involved with Mac Rebbenack
during the Beijing of the Dr. John thing. I never knew
Brian Stone, but Charlie was as fast a talker as I've
met. Aside from the Cake (and Sonny & Cher, to some
degree) he was working with some pretty non-Spectorish
acts,including Jerry Williams (not Swamp Dogg) and
another really talented New Orleans songwriter who's
name escapes me.
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:14:16 +0900
From: Brian Chidester
Subject: Pattern People & The Popcorn Explosion
Anyone know anything about these two bands? Their
output? The years they recorded together? Who they
were and which writers/producers they worked with?
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End
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