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There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop.
Topics in this Digest Number 258:
1. Kathleen, Cheryl and Patrice
From: "Don Charles"
2. RE: Unending Unchained
From: Mark Landwehr
3. ListenTo Unchained
From: Monophonius
4. CAROL KAYE, MOTOWN & THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS
From: Mick Patrick
5. Re: Made up names
From: Carol Kaye
6. Spector or Medley
From: "Peter Richmond"
7. to: carol kaye
From: PjB
8. scary songs for halloween
From: Keith Moore
9. Re: Sloan's on Stones
From: "Joseph Scott"
10. Crewe's in for cash
From: LePageWeb
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:52:17 +0000
From: "Don Charles"
Subject: Kathleen, Cheryl and Patrice
If you're one of many girl group enthusiasts who thinks
you don't need any late '60s cartoon/bubblegum music
albums in your collection . . . think again! You need
STOP, LOOK AND LISTEN, the new Josie and The Pussycats
compilation just released by Rhino Handmade Records in
the US.
Although originally a comic strip, Josie and The
Pussycats was a real live group for about a year's
duration, and a young, not-yet-famous Cheryl Ladd was
lead singer on several of the tracks. The other lead
singer was the incredible Patrice Holloway, whose solo
records I understand they have an avid cult following in
England. Opera singer Kathleen Dougherty was the third
member of the trio. If The Ronettes and Shangri-Las
revolutionized the sound of girlpop in the '60s (and they
did), then I submit that groups like Honey Cone and Josie
and The Pussycats set the stage for the girl group sound
of the '70s, which was soon to evolve into disco: Gospel
leads and harmonies, Gamble and Huff-style orchestration,
synthesizers, and a relentless rhythm track, often with
Latin flavorings. Think Honey Cone was the female
version of Motown's Jackson Five? Wait 'til your ears
behold Patrice Holloway throwing down "You've Come A Long
Way, Baby" (in four different mixes on the CD). Think
"Be My Baby" was the most sublime girlpop record ever
waxed? Well, you'll still think so after hearing Cheryl
Ladd rock out with "The Time To Love Is Here," but you'll
be mighty impressed all the same. And I'm willing to bet
that infectious tracks like "Roadrunner," "Voodoo" and
"It's All Right With Me" will end up ranking among your
all-time favorite girl group recordings. No doubt!
Please don't let prejudice against so-called bubblegum
music cause you to miss out on this excellent music.
You've never heard the like of Josie and The Pussycats,
produced by Danny Janssen, Sue Sheridan and Bobby Young,
arranged by Al Capps and Jimmie Haskell, and featuring
Clarence MacDonald, Wilton Felder, Hal Blaine and dozens
more of Hollywood's finest rock and R & B session players.
You can order the CD at Rhino Handmade's website
(www.rhinohandmade.com). Look out, too, for my
definitive Josie and The Pussycats profile, scheduled for
publication in Discoveries Magazine next year.
Don Charles
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:02:00 -0400
From: Mark Landwehr
Subject: RE: Unending Unchained
> "Carol Kaye" wrote:
>
> > To tell you the truth, I don't remember, but always
> > assumed he was - he was always at his own dates...there
> > wouldn't be a recording date without him....it was
> > always under our impressions (speaking for Don Randi,
> > etc. here) that Phil did produce that.
>
Mike Arcidiacono wrote:
> Folks, Larry Levine says that Phil WASNT there...because
> he engineered that session. He says that Bill Medly did
> indeed produce UM.
>
Well, that's a different story than what Mark Ribowsky
told me, but I didn't believe him at that time (and still
don't)...Let's see, Larry Levine was there and says 'no
Phil'...Carol Kaye was there and says she ASSUMED Phil
was there but is not positive & that Medley was very
capable of replicating, to some extent, a "Spector
Sound"...Now, there are people who, after hearing
"testimony" from those that were THERE, are still not
gonna believe it even MIGHT have been a Medley production!!!
Unbelievable!!! Maybe someone should ask Phil...HA!! Now
there's a pretty crazy idea!!!
To those who say that UM "SOUNDS" like Spector (and
that's the whole basis for their belief), I say, "So what
if it does?"...Alder Ray's single "'Cuz I Love Him"/"A
Little Love Will Go a Long Way" (to name just one example
out of many) SOUNDS like a Spector job, too...But it
ain't.
Mark
The Phil Spector Record Label Gallery @
http://home.tbbs.net/~msland/Spector
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 03:13:59 -0000
From: Monophonius
Subject: ListenTo Unchained
My two cents on the Spector vs. Medley "Unchained" debate.
"Unchained Melody" and "See That Girl" seem to be the two tracks that
cause the most confusion.
I believe Medley cut both of these because they lack the
drum/percussion sound that Phil was into at the time. You can say
what you want about Phil, but he was definitely no minimalist. "Hung
On You" is what Phil was all about in 1965.
Listen to "He (Can Turn The Tide)" that Medley cut on Verve and you
can hear the similarity with "Unchained Melody."
If Phil had really done "Unchained" he would have cast it in the mold
of the Ronettes' "Everything Under The Sun" or Bob B. Soxx's "Bells
Of St. Mary". "See That Girl" would have been done with a stronger
downbeat, not laid back. It might have sounded like "Walking in the
Rain" without the thunder, if you could imagine that.
Monophonius
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 00:31:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: CAROL KAYE, MOTOWN & THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS
Greetings,
Let's get away from the Righteous Brothers for a moment,
but stick with Carol Kaye. If anyone out there is still
in any doubt about session legend Carol's involvement in
Motown recordings they should do themselves a favour and
get a copy of CALLING OUT AROUND THE WORLD: A MOTOWN
READER (HELTER SKELTER PUBLISHING, 2001, ISBN
1-900924-14-5). Head for chapter 10, an interview with
Carol by Kingsley Abbott who edited this unputdownable
book. Carol tells all about those 'non-union' sessions
in a way that is fascinating and utterly convincing.
Heck, the lady has documentary proof and a great memory.
Ostensibly a collection of Motown-themed articles
published previously by specialist magazines like
Goldmine, Record Collector, In The Basement, Rolling
Stone, Song Talk, It Will Stand, Come And Get These
Memories and Soulful Kinda Music, A Motown Reader also
features a number of specially commissioned chapters,
many of them written by Mr Abbott. I got my copy from
Jim Stewart: www.soulsearchingplus.co.uk
but you could go straight to the publisher:
www.skelter.demon.co.uk
or visit their shop at 4 Denmark Street, London, WC2H
8LL, the best music bookshop in town and just 10 minutes
walk from where I work.
Oh, well. Back to the Righteous Brothers. The book
contained in the "Back To Mono" box set informs us that
their "Unchained Melody" was recorded in March 1965 at
Radio Recorders in Hollywood, NOT at Goldstar. Larry
Levine was the engineer. Will this information assist in
proving who produced this track? Would that producer
have earned money as the result of the track's latterday
success following its use in the movie Ghost? If so,
should that remuneration have gone to P. Spector or B.
Medley?
MICK PATRICK
BTW, Carol, MANY YEARS seperate the Righteous Brothers'
Philles version and their VILE recut. It's impossible to
confuse the two versions.
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:01:04 -0700
From: Carol Kaye
Subject: Re: Made up names
> On most of the Bill Medley songs he used something
> called The Mike Patterson Band which may have not
> been the same musicians as Spector or was that a made
> up name.
>
> Who was (is?) Mike Patterson.
I'm sure that's a made-up name....people were always doing
that back then....the real studio musicians' names were
usually never put on the backs of the record albums back
then, so it was open season to use any name (including
changing the artists' name) they wanted....
Phil always had a sense of humor and would invent all
kinds of stuff just for the hell of it. Like the "B"
sides he had us cut at the last 5 mintues of a record
date....we'd just jam and that would be "his tune" then.
I do think that Bill Medley did have some talent at
producing, knowing him fairly well from all our work with
the Righteous Bros., but of course he wasn't Phil
Spector...so many people were always in the booth trying
to learn from Phil. And you're right about names
including others that had nothing to do with the date "Ike
and Tina Turner" for River Deep Mountain High....we all
did that too, helped to quickly identify who was doing
what where....even tho' we knew he wasn't on the date and
didn't do anything (the "Righteous Bros." for just Bobby
etc.)......the Righteous Bros. were so intertwined with
Phil, and I really don't remember that much about
"production" of Unchained Melody but we did know about the
copy done for the reason that they claimed that they
weren't getting their money out of Phil for his "Unchained"
-- not sure what the details were about that, but that was
the reason proffered.
And Darlene Love was appearing with Bill Medley a lot at
the Orange Country arena, I forget the name now, but was
about 20 years and would be on his side too, as she had
learned by that time that she should have gotten more
money for her big involvement in his productions too
(which she later did with her lawsuit).....so there is a
connection there too of taking sides....I don't know who's
right and who's wrong about production values, just my
observations as a studio musician there on those dates
with them all. I wouldn't believe engineers either, they
are fallible with memories just like we all are....but in
this case, I'd say that Larry is probably right, but I
remember cutting "Soul And Inspiration" at Western Studio
1 for the Righteous Bros., not at Gold Star at all.
Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/
PS. I will try to find out more from Don Randi when I
speak with him soon about it, he knows a lot more than I
do.
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 06:42:15 +0100
From: "Peter Richmond"
Subject: Spector or Medley
Paul Urbahns wrote
>Who was (is?) Mike Patterson.
Mike Patterson was on old school friend of Bill Medley's,
his band the Rhythm Rockers played rhythm & blues surf
music, recorded for Moonglow and Challenge.
With Mike Patterson on piano, the Rhythm Rockers backed
the Righteous Brothers at the Rendezvous Ballroom when
Bill Medley and Bobby Hatfield first formed the duo.
>From the onset of the Righteous Brothers career,
Patterson toured with them as musical director, after the
Righteous Brothers split in 1968 he continued to work
with Bill Medley.
He was also worked as the Blossoms road manager in the
late 60's plus also he and Art Munson produced a couple
of tracks on their "Shockwave" album on Lion, he is
credited as the conductor on the Blossoms MGM 13964
single "Tweedlee Dee"/"You Got Me Hummin" produced by
Bill Medley.
For the completist, Darlene Love is featured on the MGM
4783 album "6680 Lexington" a Mike Patterson project that
he produced with Art Munson in 1971.
There is a photo of Mike Patterson in Darlene Love's book
"My Name Is Love".
It is disappointing to see the needlessly cynical
reference taken from the "Out Of His Head" book by
Richard Williams - "something called the Mike Patterson
Band" - still being quoted, bearing in mind that Williams
had completely lost the plot on the previous page by
failing to realise that "Hung On You" WAS indeed
originally the A side to "Unchained Melody" in both the
US & UK.
Something that needs to be addressed, many collectors
take as gospel a record label credit and quote this as
the basis of evidence for their cause - the inaccuracies
are quite unbelievable in some cases.
Three such examples below,
the 1969 Verve 10637 reissue of "You've Lost That Lovin
Feelin" credits Bill Medley as the producer
the 1973 UK MGM "Two By Two" compilation credits Phil
Spector as producer of "Soul & Inspiration"
on the very first release of the Righteous Brothers
Greatest Hits in 1967 on Verve after they leased the
Moonglow/Philles catalogue - "Just Once In My Life" lists
the songwriters as "Goffin/King/Weil", of course omitting
Phil Spector and erroneously crediting Cynthia Weil -
this error was carried over on all the many subsequent
repackages of this album including the one in the 1981
Phil Spector Box Set
It is quite reasonable to assume that whoever put
together the credits on the record labels at the vast
MGM/Verve company had no knowledge or interest in the
Righteous Brothers or were just incompetent at their job
(more likely).
However, I do find it hard to believe that at Philles
Records, obviously a smaller concern, the owner himself
would not be credited as producer of "Unchained Melody"
until after it became obvious that it was receiving more
airplay than the main side, "Hung On You".
Peter Richmond
Righteous Brothers Discography
http://freespace.virgin.net/p.richmond/
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:40:39 -0700
From: PjB
Subject: to: carol kaye
hello carol....my name is peter, and i am a jazz pianist
of some 20 years professional standing, based now on the
west coast. i have been, and remain, a fervent fan of
your work over the years, and your unique and brilliant
execution seem sometimes to be only the icing on the cake
of an underlying musicality for the ages.
a long and involved q & a is perhaps inappropriate for
this particular forum and i would certainly not presume
to impose upon your valuable time to such an extent, but
i wanted to ask you few questions about one of your early
cohorts; brian wilson.
i have been exposed to much of the SMiLE era material,
and it is interesting on several levels.....but perhaps
the most difficult question to answer, and one i am
hoping you might be able to shed some light on, it this:
what *really* happened to brian? when i hear him
producing these late 60s sessions, i hear a profoundly
intelligent, quick-minded, and entirely cogent mind at
work. he speaks with a normal, even quick cadence....
his comments are well expressed, and all in all he sounds
like a man in complete control of his mental faculties.
but as time went along, something very basic and
elemental *changed* in brian, and he went from being a
remarkably quick witted and even brilliant
orator...certain well-documented eccentricities
notwithstanding.... to a man who seemed to become one who
was barely capable of coherent and pragmatic speech. the
transformation was deep-seated and near total.
drugs offer an easy and certainly undeniable partial
explanation....but my impression is that there was
something else which engendered in brian this wholesale
transformation from a vital, bright, and well-spoken man
into , well......something much different than that.
it is this near-total transformation of character, down
to and including even a marked change in quality and
manner of speech....not to mention the dramatic and
disturbing alterations in his outward behavior and manner
of relating to others, even those closest to him.... that
are so thought provoking.
having had much experience with brian, whom i adore
unreservedly, i would very much appreciate any comments
you would care to share with me and/or the group.
thanking for your invaluable contributions to this group,
i remain,
your biggest fan, peter
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 14:23:00 -0000
From: Keith Moore
Subject: scary songs for halloween
Re: Delia's message.
I always think 'Is That All There Is?' by Peggy Lee is
pretty scary although Cristina's hard-to-come-by version
>from about 1980 (I only have it on tape from the Anne
Nightingale Show) is scarier still!
Keith
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:11:12 -0600
From: "Joseph Scott"
Subject: Re: Sloan's on Stones
I can picture Sloan as involved in production ideas for
"Paint It Black" and in suggesting using a sitar on it.
Hassinger was the engineer on those sessions and to a
large extent in charge of them, I don't think anyone
takes any of Stones manager Oldham's "production"
credits very seriously, and the Stones were inviting
people such as Nitzsche to contribute to their sessions,
so seems entirely possible to me that Sloan got involved
in pretty much the way he says he did.
Joseph Scott
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:37:12 +0900
From: LePageWeb
Subject: Crewe's in for cash
Michael P wrote:
> A few of my pals...have commented on the similarity in
> appearance of the legendary producer and myself. How I
> wish the likeness extended to our financial states.
>
> THE DYNOVOICE STORY double CD [is] being withdrawn
> from sale. It seems Mr Crewe objected to his name and
> likeness being used on the cover of this CD. All
> remaining stock has been crushed.
Everytime a Mick Patrick post arrives in Spectropop I
gotta check my wallet - Yes, I ordered the Dynovoice
Story the day I read Mick's post. I had been casually
looking for it since it first came out, but now that Mr.
Crewe has quoted $150,000 for his name and likeness
rights, I knew I had better pick it up now. Question,
though - how could Westside's business affairs
(particularly since the release falls under British law)
overlook clearance of name and likeness rights??? Did
they assume Mr. Crewe would be just beside himself with
glee at such a fabulous tribute? Oh well, boys will be
boys, I guess.
2nd Q - Why destroy the stock? Why not just replace the
front sleeve? "Mick and Malcolm present The Dynovoice
Story - Devil with a Blue Dress On" or something like
that.
Just a thought - now waiting for the cd to show up in the
mail, and thanks for the heads up, Mick!
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
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