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There are 8 messages in this issue of Spectropop.
Topics in this Digest Number 300:
1. Re: RONETTES ROYALTIES
From: LePageWeb
2. RONETTES ROYALTIES...ANOTHER VIEW
From: Mike W
3. LaSalles on V.I.P. and Ronnie on H.S.
From: "Spector Collector"
4. Re: 60s videos
From: "Tony Leong"
5. Last True Girl Group Record?
From: "Don Charles"
6. Jeanette
From: "Antonio Vizcarra"
7. scuba party
From: "Spectropop Administration"
8. Re: Louise Cordet
From: "Ian Slater"
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:09:56 +0900
From: LePageWeb
Subject: Re: RONETTES ROYALTIES
Thanks to Robert for posting to the photos section his
news clipping on the subject of the appellate court
upholding the previous ruling ordering Spector to pay $3
MILLION DOLLARS to the Ronettes. Nice to see your
messages on Spectropop lately, Robert!
After reading this and the article Mick so kindly posted
(thanks!), I went back and read one of the June 2000
articles on the original judgement. Here 'tis:
http://www.escribe.com/music/spectropop/bb/index.html?bID=35
In a nutshell, the key point is that the original
contract between the three Ronettes and Phil (or Philles)
concerned only royalties on records. The court found that
the contract language should be read to exclude, rather
than authorize, uses other than those stated in the
contract, and in accordance with industry standards, all
fees paid for reuses should be shared equally between the
company (Phil) and the artist (The Ronettes). That is, in
essence, the whole story as far as this case is concerned.
Is 50% really industry standard? A bit of research into
the subject confirms it is. Sort of. The variable comes
with the definition of who is entitled to that 50%. This
gets complicated, but in brief, the producer and the
group manager (at the time the records were made)
typically take the respective commission from that 50% as
well.
Now seeing that Spector's name value and success rate far
exceeded that of the Ronettes at the time, and seeing
that Spector essentially created the recordings under
discussion, and managed the group, it would today be
"standard industry practice" for him to take at the very
least a substantial producer royalty and manager
commission, perhaps 5/15 of the artist royalty and 20% of
the artist royalty respectively. Add those and subtract
>from the 50%; the artist would get just over 23%. But,
for whatever reasons, no contract between Phil and the
Ronettes read that way, so the Ronettes stand to receive
the full 50% the court granted. So even though the 50% is
indeed industry standard for what record companies should
*pay* on reuse fees, that percentage is a heck of a lot
more than a modern R&B vocal trio (e.g., TLC) would
*receive* for similar third party reuse fees. For an
in-depth article on current industry standard with regard
to how artist royalties are split up, check out this rap
coalition (!) page:
http://www.rapcoalition.org/generic.html?pid=10
Let's also remember that in this same case the Ronettes
sought ownership of their Phil Spector produced
recordings! Think that's going too far? So did
Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Paula Omansky, who wrote
in her decision: "Spector's contributions to the
Ronettes' success cannot be underestimated, as composer
of their songs, and as creator of the sound for which
the Ronettes' recording hits became famous. Rescinding
the 1963 recording contract and taking ownership of the
masters away from Spector is not warranted."
Anyway, this judgement made me think about something
outside the issues raised in this case. Given the time
the contract was signed (May 6, 1963), Ronnie, Estelle
and Nedra undoubtedly had equal 1/3 share in the
Ronettes' royalties. If a similar contract would be
signed today, chances are Ronnie would be the only
royaltor and the others would be hired guns for concert
performances and photos. Such is the nature of the beast.
At the time, the three girls must have been ecstatic
when the Tycoon of Teen set out to turn them into the
ultimate girl group. Today they would have three
separate attorneys at each others throats before
committing a note to tape. One wonders why Spector
didn't try to sign only Ronnie in the first place. But I
digress.
I'm not trying to Milli Vanilli-ize the two Ronettes
here or anything like that - god knows I adore their
records - but to tell you the truth, I really can't tell
if Estelle and Nedra actually sang on any of their
Philles' recordings (for which they are now being paid a
cool mil each). If so, which tracks specifically? Does
anyone know for sure?
Just curious...
Jamie
n.p. Is This What I Get For Lovin' You Baby - Ronettes
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:50:11 -0000
From: Mike W
Subject: RONETTES ROYALTIES...ANOTHER VIEW
Dear Members,
To me, it just sounds like just alot of Sour Grapes and
Misery, that is the perfect recipe for the Media, who has
fun with public figures like Spector.
To me, this does not diminish Spector's Genius, which is
just the aim of this too late, and punitive legal action
like this.
What looks bad are ignorant artists like these, who come
on like Innocents, and who were not forced to become
famous or who knowingly signed contracts and did business
at a "disadvantage" with people in the Music Business. If
the truth be told, at the time they were employed by
Spector, these artists would do ANYTHING to take
advantage of the opportunity that was offered to them, as
ANYONE would.
This lawsuit is designed to "even things out", but all it
does is produce "positive" publicity, and the wrong
message to send, for artists with stalled and DEAD music
careers, that can't find a place in Today's Music
Marketplace. These are people, I use the term very
loosely, who feel that looking stupid, and, ahem,
"innocent" is worth it...and I guess it is, isnt it ? But
they are so out of it, they don't realize it's NOTHING to
be proud of.
I'm sure Spector will appeal it, and he should!
It's a bad day for the Law, and a bad day for Music.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:16:25 +0000
From: "Spector Collector"
Subject: LaSalles on V.I.P. and Ronnie on H.S.
I just got a 45 by The LaSalles on Motown subsid V.I.P.
25036 (1966). The songs are "La La La La La La"/"This Is
True." The seller listed it as a girl group record, but
I'm just not sure, and I wondered if anybody here has any
information on the group. The lead singer's voice sounds
to me like what you might get if you put Lulu, The Rocky
Fellers, Brenda Lee, and The Aubrey Twins in a blender.
Help!
On an unrelated topic, I've learned that Ronnie Spector
has taped two episodes of the game show Hollywood Squares.
Installments in a "Classic Rock" theme week, they're
scheduled to air in the U.S. on December 31 and January 2.
Other guests include Dionne Warwick, Frankie Valli, Mark
Lindsay, and Pat Boone.
David A. Young
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:59:03 -0000
From: "Tony Leong"
Subject: Re: 60s videos
--- In spectropop, "Phil Chapman" asked:
> is the Shindig Chiffons' clip commercially available?
> do you know of any available clips of The
> Ronettes or Crystals lip-synching to the Philles
> recordings?
>
> Phil
Phil: Hello, the Chiffons on Shindig is NOT commercially
available, but I got the clip off of a friend. The only
other Chiffons appearances on ANY show are an American
Bandstand show for "He's So Fine" and "A Love So Fine".
I have a friend Dennis Garvey that recalls seeing the
girls doing "The Real Thing" on a local NY show.
As for the Crystals, they are also listed as doing
"Little Boy" on Bandstand, which I have not seen. BUT, I
have clips of them on Shebang in July 1965 miming "Da Doo
Ron Ron" and "He's A Rebel". The line-up was LaLa
(miming the lead) with DeeDee and Frances. They also
appeared on Where The Action Is including a performance
of "He's Sure The Boy I Love".
Most Ronettes clips I have include them miming "Be My
Baby" and "Is This What I Get For Loving You". Photos do
exist of a Lloyd Thaxton appearance where the girls mimed
"Walkin In The Rain". Another friend of mine has the
girls singing "You Baby" from Hullabaloo. I guess that
was almost a single in late 1965.
US cable TV occasionally shows the ENTIRE "Big TNT Show",
and it is wonderful!! The Ronettes sing "Be My Baby" and
"Shout", but the way the film was edited, it appears
that the group sang something else between those 2
numbers.
Of course Darlene and the Blossoms were on every Shindig
(except 1 where the Ikettes replaced them), but they did
not seem to do ANY Philles material on that programme.
They backed up other artists or sang hits of the day by
other people.
Anybody out there have any recollections or tapes of
Shangri-Las TV appearances, especially in the UK!!!!!!!
Tony Leong
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:04:27 +0000
From: "Don Charles"
Subject: Last True Girl Group Record?
"David Bash" wrote
>
>I would nominate "Condition Red" by The Goodees as a true
>girl group record made after Sweet Talkin Guy. It was
>originally released in 1968 on Hip Records, and can now
>be found on CD on the excellent Ace Records compilation
>"Where The Girls Are".
>
>One could also call 1969's "Nothing But A Heartache" by
>The Flirtations a true girl group record.
What about Josie and The Pussycats (a group whose output
is still woefully neglected by girl group collectors) and
their wonderful 1970 singles "With Every Beat Of My Heart"
and "You've Come A Long Way, Baby?" What about The
Pointer Sisters, who recorded "He's So Shy" and "Should I
Do It" in the '80s? What about Tracey Ullman's sublime
"They Don't Know?" I submit that true girl group records
have never stopped being made. It's just a question of
quantity now.
Don Charles
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:32:03 +0100
From: "Antonio Vizcarra"
Subject: Jeanette
Hi everybody.
Jeanette was in fact an american singer, she started
recording in the late 60's in the spanish group Pic-Nic,
all their singles are really worth checking out.
They also released an album. These recordings were
recently reissued in Spain on a cd which features also
the single sides they cut for the spanish market and
unreleased tracks.
In the 70's she went solo - the biggest hits were
released on the first half of the decade.
"Por que te vas?" the song featured on the film "Cria
cuervos" from Carlos Saura became a big hit in Spain and
France.
In the eighties she had a sort of come back, these are
the recordings that Sheila mentions.
If anybody is interested on her recordings, please let
me know.
All the best.
Antonio.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:15:07 +0900
From: "Spectropop Administration"
Subject: scuba party
Posted to Spectropop Bulletin board by Simon W
on Wed, 21 Nov 2001
http://www.escribe.com/music/spectropop/bb/index.html?bID=256
Hello girls and boys. New to Spectropop and I hope you
can help me! I'm looking for info on two things.
1. the movie 'CATALINA CAPER [NEVER STEAL ANYTHING WET]'
with Mary Wells and more importantly, Little Richard
singing 'SCUBA PARTY'. Did it come out on video [uk
format ] or even dvd? Has anyone seen the movie?
2. Does anyone have any info on The Elites on Era records?
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:07:48 -0000
From: "Ian Slater"
Subject: Re: Louise Cordet
Further to Alan Miller's comments about reissues of
Louise Cordet's material, I think she has been poorly
served. I believe "Two Lovers" is the only track
currently available and it is frankly embarrassing
compared with the Mary Wells classic!
Her EP "The Sweet Sound of..." is very much more
appropriate with the ballad "Everytime" my own favourite
- none of the tracks were issued on her 5 UK singles and
she never had an LP. Anyone who likes "So Hard to Be Good"
on the film "Disco-O-Tec Holiday" (aka "Just for You") is
unlikely to be disapointed by any of her singles (except
perhaps "2 Lovers/ Don't Make Me Over" - she really
wasn't a soul singer).
How about a CD, Decca? And one of the Orchids too!
Ian Slater
PS - thanks to other subscribers for infomation on other
Chiffons video clips.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
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