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Spectropop - Digest Number 314
- From: Spectropop Group
- Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 22:23:02
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No age limit on Sunday
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There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this Digest Number 314:
1. Re: Harrison, Spector, My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine
From: Andrew Hickey
2. Re: Harrison, Spector, My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine
From: LePageWeb
3. Wooh!! Richard Williams
From: "Martin Roberts"
4. He's so sweet, my lord
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
5. Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
From: "David Gordon"
6. Time to dig out the christmas 45s again!
From: "Martin Roberts"
7. White Winter Outside
From: James Botticelli
8. Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
From: Simon White
9. Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
From: Bryan
10. Mrs Schwartz You've Got An Ugly Daughter
From: Paul Urbahns
11. Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
From: "John Lester"
12. Re: I Feel Love Coming on
From: "John Lester"
13. For Jimmy
From: Dan Hughes
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 01:40:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Hickey
Subject: Re: Harrison, Spector, My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine
> As for the question of Spector's attitude, it might
> be interesting to mention an exchange between Lennon
> and Spector during the sessions for Happy Xmas (at
> which I was present). At one point Lennon mentioned
> to Spector that he had more or less nicked the
> melody from one of Phil's old records: I Love How
> You Love Me by the Paris Sisters. Spector was
> amused and not a little flattered -- and he made it
> clear that, like Lennon, he understood the organic
> evolutionary process of which this was an example.
That's odd - I've always heard (including from Lennon
interviews) that the song was actually stolen from a
different Spector production - Try Some Buy Some -
written by George Harrison!
Of course Lennon was the world's greatest (in both senses
of the word) plagiarist. #9 Dream (listen to Lennon's
arrangement of Many Rivers To Cross for Harry Nilsson),
Come Together, Remember, not to mention all the songs he
wrote that were just 3 Blind Mice...
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:32:12 +0900
From: LePageWeb
Subject: Re: Harrison, Spector, My Sweet Lord and He's So Fine
RW wrote:
> I'm sorry that virtually all the Harrison obituaries
> mentioned the successful plagiarism suit. It was easy
> to see why, but as a result the incident seemed to
> assume a greater importance than it warranted,
> leaving people with the impression that Harrison was
> a thief.
A point well made. In a three minute obit/documentary on
the evening news there is little time to do anything
except touch on a few noted points and unfortunately
"HSF vs MSL" is one that is bound to be covered. I
thought "Harrison as the singlehanded innovator of
exotic instrumentalia in rock" too was a bit
oversimplified but it's easy to see why most coverage
went there, too.
> [Harrison] was a participant in the process of emulation
> and transformation which created pop music and allowed
> it to develop. "Borrowing" tunes -- and chord sequences
> and rhythm patterns -- was all a part of it...
Writers of the time often consciously did this. Ex:
Frankie Avalon has a hit with Venus - let's write a
follow up and pitch it to him. Little wonder it sounded
like a carbon copy. Was this practice thievery? I
personally don't think so. Apparently the music
publishing community didn't think so either, because the
practice went on for years with few publicized
infringement cases.
Of course over time "music for the teenager market"
outlived its predicted shelf life and became valuable
property. Accordingly, "borrowing" became "stealing."
Today, if a background vocalist suggests changing "Oh,
yeah" to "Oh, no" the producer better get a waiver or be
prepared to face a co-writer claim. The songwriting
process has devolved into drum loops and grooves, and
with machines handling most of that, nearly anyone
within shouting distance of the studio may lay claim to
a piece of the song. But I digress. The point is,
irrespective of the court decision, HSF vs MSL is not
"Harrison as thief" in my book, and it never has been.
> As for the question of Spector's attitude, it might
> be interesting to mention an exchange between Lennon
> and Spector during the sessions for Happy Xmas (at
> which I was present). At one point Lennon mentioned
> to Spector that he had more or less nicked the melody
> from one of Phil's old records: I Love How You Love
> Me by the Paris Sisters. Spector was amused and not a
> little flattered -- and he made it clear that, like
> Lennon, he understood the organic evolutionary
> process of which this was an example.
What a great story! A few comments if I may...
On page 10 of my Abacus edition of "Out of His Head" it
says: "When John first played it to Spector, the
producer commented straight off that the tune was a
direct lift from 'I Love How You Love Me'..."
Which is it?
(Let me take this opportunity to thank you for "Out of
His Head" as it has been a treasured reference book for
decades. I was thrilled to read your comments in our
group yesterday!)
Spector of course had no writer or publisher share in
that song. I wonder how open this topic would have been
had the reference piece been "To Know Him Is To Love Him"
instead. All three songs share both the 12/8 time
signature and (variations on) the familiar "I-vi-IV-V"
chord progression.
I am probably wrong about this, but I once heard a
different song using the same melody as in the verse of
Happy X'mas, which left me with the vague impression that
Happy X'mas may have had its origins in a folk song now
in the public domain. I thought I would throw this out to
the group to see if anyone else had any knowledge about
this.
Once again, Richard, thanks so much for your comments!
All the best,
Jamie
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:37:42 -0000
From: "Martin Roberts"
Subject: Wooh!! Richard Williams
Welcome to another childhood hero!!
Well maybe a slight exaggeration! But very pleased to see
Richard's name among Spectropopers, his regular column in
the Melody Maker used to be one of the highlights of my
week!!
And of course his authorship of "Out Of His Head-The
Sound Of Phil Spector" the first and one of the best
written Spector books (including the rewritten "And So
This Is Christmas" chapter) has already been discussed on
this site.
Good to have you aboard,
Martin
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:24:05 -0000
From: "Kingsley Abbott"
Subject: He's so sweet, my lord
Thanks to Richard Williams for putting a realistic
perspective on the Chiffons/Harrison debate. As usual,
too much activity is promoted by lawyers. Half of what
we listen to wouldn't have happened but for 'adaptation'
as with any other form of publishing. Whilst total
rip-offs should be caught, examples of this nature should
be treated more sensibly.
Kingsley Abbott
PS Felice Taylor's "It May be Winter Outside" can be
found on "Boss Soul - The Genius Of Barry White" Del-Fi
DFCD 71255 along with two other tracks of her's including
her biggie "I Feel Love Coming On". Nice CD if you go
for mid sixties Motown influenced pop-soul!
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:08:15 -0000
From: "David Gordon"
Subject: Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
--- In Spectropop, Paul Urbahns wrote:
> I have an old 8 track tape called, Blockbuster Hits
> Volume 8 on some off the wall label out of California.
> There is a song called It's Winter Outside that I really
> like by Felice Taylor. Never heard any of her other songs
> but this one is really good. It sounds like new lyrics to
> Everythings Good About You (a hit for the Lettermen).
>
> Has it been reissued on anything...
Hi Paul,
Felice Taylor was an L.A. based singer who started out
with her sisters as a member of the Sweets with her
sisters,on Valiant. She went solo, produced by Barry
White, on Bob Keene's Mustang label.
She did 3 singles for Mustang, "It May Be Winter Outside",
"I Feel Love Comin' On"and "I'm Under The Influence of
Love" around 66/67.
"I'm Under The Influence Of Love" doesn't seem to have
been released in the U.S. but became a UK. top ten hit on
President who were the UK licensees for the Mustang /
Bronco labels.
The b-sides of all three singles were the instrumental
backing tracks with the titles changed to things like
"Winter Again" and "Comin' On Again".
There's CD on the revived Del-Fi label called "The Boss
Soul of Barry White" which compiles the work he did for
Mustang / Bronco which probably has a few Felice Taylor
tracks.
She went on to sign with Kent/Modern with a couple of
singles issued around 68/69. I haven't heard these since
- they're nothing special.
The Mustang tracks however are excellent Supremes clones,
I'll see if I can trace more accurate info when I get
home.
David Gordon
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 22:03:48 -0000
From: "Martin Roberts"
Subject: Time to dig out the christmas 45s again!
Thanks to Paul Urbahns for the Felice Taylor prompt. When
you track down the Mustang or UK President 45 (almost a
Brit hit) shouldn't surprise you to see the Barry White
credit. Her other releases are a bit to Souly (in a Diana
Ross kind of way) for my tastes.
Martin
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 23:58:06 EST
From: James Botticelli
Subject: White Winter Outside
Paul writes:
> the only reference I can find is Mustang 3024 It
> May Be Winter Outside. I assume it's the same song.
One and the same...."Winter Outside" is more than likely
"It May Be Winter Outside". Written by Barry White.
Later a cover was included on Love Unlimited Orchestra's
1973 "Loves Theme" LP on 20th Century...great song too
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 08:25:02 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
Paul Urbahns wrote on 7/12/01:
> Anyway the only reference I can find is Mustang 3024 It
> May Be Winter Outside. I assume it's the same song. Has
> it been reissued on anything
Paul, it is the same song.
It was reissued on 'BOSS SOUL: THE GENIUS OF BARRY
WHITE' - DFCD 71255.
Barry also had a hit with the song in the 70s via Love
Unlimited.
There a great alt take of "I FEEL LOVE COMING ON" by
Felice on the cd and tracks by the wonderful Johnny Wyatt
and Viola Wills plus tracks by the Walrus of Love himself.
Co-incidentaly they are using another of Felice's tracks
for an ad on British T. V. now - "I CAN FEEL YOUR LOVE"
recored for Kent / Modern. If you have trouble finding
the cd (it may be out of catalogue) I can help.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:02:12 -0800
From: Bryan
Subject: Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
> There is a song called It's Winter Outside that I really
> like by Felice Taylor. Never heard any of her other songs
> but this one is really good. It sounds like new lyrics to
> Everythings Good About You (a hit for the Lettermen).
That song by Felice Taylor is on Del-Fi's Boss Soul:
The Genius Of Barry White comp.
I'm sure it was licensed by Bob Keane of Del-Fi, who by
that time had reconfigured his company as Stereo-Fi, with
two labels under its umbrella: Bronco and Mustang.
Felice Taylor did two singles for Mustang: "It May Be
Winter Outside"/ "Winter Again" (Mustang 3024/ November
1966) and "I'm Under The Influence Of Love"/ "I'm Under
The Influence Of Love" (instr.) (Mustang 3026/ February
1967).
Taylor had some success with "It May Be Winter Outside
(But It's Spring In My Heart)" in Europe (Germany and
England in particular), but she apparently had some
emotional problems that kept her from having bigger
success...
In spite of all that, "Winter" went to #42 Pop and #44
R&B (Billboard) 1966.
Mustang released a second single -- "I'm Under the
Influence Of Love" --- by Felice Taylor, but it failed to
do much. In 1967, Felice Taylor's third record of one of
Barry's songs, "I Feel Love Comin' On", was leased by
Stereo-Fi to President Records in England, where it went
to #11. She was officially dropped from Mustang/Stereo-Fi,
and went on to cut a minor hit on the Bihari Brothers'
Kent label.
Bryan
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 13:44:45 EST
From: Paul Urbahns
Subject: Mrs Schwartz You've Got An Ugly Daughter
As a fan of novelty records, I found a listing several
years ago of Marty & The Monks record, Mrs Schwartz
You've Got An Ugly Daughter on Associated Artists Records.
Has anybody heard this song? Please summarize what you
remember.
Paul Urbahns
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:16:38 -0000
From: "John Lester"
Subject: Re: Felice Taylor - It's Winter Outside
David Gordon wrote:
> [Felice Taylor's] Mustang tracks however are excellent
> Supremes clones, I'll see if I can trace more accurate
> info when I get home.
Hello folks...I am a bit new here!! Motown is my bag
BUT...
There is an advert on UK TV at the moment for Sainsburys
with a 60's style track playing in the background...
that girl sounds a lot like Felice Taylor but I don't
know the song and I thought I had most of her stuff
....anyone got any ideas?
John Lester
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:22:21 -0000
From: "John Lester"
Subject: Re: I Feel Love Coming on
Bryan wrote:
> In 1967, Felice Taylor's third
> record of one of Barry's songs, "I Feel Love Comin'
> On", was leased by Stereo-Fi to President Records in
> England, where it went to #11.
The version of "I Feel Love Coming On" that is featured
on the Boss Soul CD is nowhere near as good as the one
issued on UK President. The Del-Fi version is only the
next best thing to a demo..I was a bit sad about that.
I can recall Felice appearing on UK TV singing this
song.....a very pretty girl...who at times even looked
like Diana Ross besides sounding like her.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 22:17:40 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: For Jimmy
HOW TO DANCE THE BOSSA NOVA
>From the back of "The Big Bossa Nova," by Bob Freedman.
"Gentle swaying of the hips while the body remains
straight and almost motionless is the Bossa Nova. Knees
bend with each step, weight must remain evenly balanced
on balls of each foot.
The degree of hip motion for example is up to each
dancer. Partners can dance near to each other or at some
distance apart as they choose. And remember the Bossa
Nova is essentially a rhythm dance; that is, the dancers
accent each step to the distinct beat of the music.
Start with feet together.
Man steps forward on left foot, close right foot to left
foot without transferring weight. Right foot back, close
left foot to right foot without transferring weight. The
woman makes all her steps in the opposite directions, as
follows: feet close together back right foot--close left
to right foot without transferring weight. Forward left
foot. Close right foot to left foot without transferring
weight.
The partners' next step is to reverse steps--each taking
the other's.
Remember, the basic element required is the bending of
the knees on each step followed by swaying of the body.
The knees bend and the body sways slightly forward on
the backward steps, while on the forward steps the body
sway is slightly backward. The rhythm in each movement
is the Bossa Nova's secret.
Many variations of the basic step are possible. The
dancers are apart from each other holding hands. The man
takes four steps to the left, bringing right foot behind
left each time. Then the man takes four steps to the
right reversing feet movement. Remember, the essential
is to take these steps with bent knees and a rhythmic
swaying of the hips.
Strange to say, the Bossa Nova is so flexible that even
a waltz step can be adapted to it. When trying this step,
remember that because of the knee bend and the rock and
sway movement the steps must be shorter. Also try the
fox-trot side step to the Bossa Nova. Slide the feet
when you try this step.
The fun in dancing the Bossa Nova is that the partners
are not restricted to a set of rigidly patterned steps.
Partners are free to let their own interpretations flow
gracefully with the music."
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
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