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The new direction for the new sounds
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There are 14 messages in this issue of Spectropop.
Topics in this Digest Number 382:
1. On Dante, Add Vance, Valiant efforts & more
From: "Paul Payton"
2. British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
From: "Tim Viney"
3. Brit Covers vs US Covers
From: Don Baylis
4. Re: British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
From: Billy G. Spradlin
5. Re: the first synth on a pop record
From: Dave Gardner
6. Al Hazan
From: "Phil Chapman"
7. Re: Shhh Here's a Trivia Tip +Bonus Prize !
From: "Javed Jafri"
8. L.A. Visit
From: "Jake Tassell"
9. re: THE WHAT FOUR
From: Mick Patrick
10. Re: Genevieve Gilles
From: Michael Rashkow
11. Tommy Vance
From: "Ken Levine"
12. Re: British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
From: Georg Schneider
13. Re-Al Hazan
From: Richard Havers
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:31:44 -0500
From: "Paul Payton"
Subject: On Dante, Add Vance, Valiant efforts & more
Martin Roberts wrote:
> Dante/Evergreens:-Almost certain I've read that
> The Hollywood Argyles was the first release
> followed quickly with a 'spoiler' by Herb & Lou.
Very possible - I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first
time) - and Don did say that over 40 years memory dims a
bit. He did mention at the time that his group contained
the "straight arrow" guys and the Hollywood Argyles were
the partiers. Of course, Gary Paxton's biography
discusses how he hit bottom and came back clean and
Christian, so that history's not a secret.
> Bit of a bummer co-writing a Beach Boys song and not
> getting the credit. His work with Bang and Bert Berns
> deserves a bit more info!
Will ask Don next time I talk with him.
Claudia: "Time Machine" was by Dante & The Evergreens,
the follow-up hit to "Alley-Oop" on Madison, indeed a
good-looking red-and-cream-colored label on the 45.
"Gonna build me a time machine, so I can go back to my
Egyptian queen" or something like that; written, if I
remember, about Cleopatra.
Simon White writes:
> talking of classical music and opera ... The Dolls
> or Janie Grant's "And That Reminds Me"....
The original was by Della Reese on Jubilee in the late
50's, long before she was "tetched" by an angel. And
"Asia Minor" is credited to the uninomial Kokomo on
Felsted. (Bet that's not on his birth certificate!)
Joe Foster: "someone called Vance" was Jerry Vance,
listed as "Music Director" on the All-Night Workers' 45.
"Why Don't You Smile" was the flip side of "Don't Put All
Your Eggs In One Basket," Round Sound RS-1, the label
being an attempt at a full-price frontline imprint by
Pickwick.
> And how on earth did the Downliners Sect come to
> cover "Why Don't You Smile"?
I don't have a business-based answer, but "Eggs" was #1
all across upstate New York, a stubbornly independent
market in the mid 60's with lots of huge regional hits
unknown elsewhere (such as Wilmer & The Dukes, The
Rising Sons and the Rockin' Rebels of "Wild Weekend"
fame, which broke on local label Shan-Todd way before it
went national on Swan).
The "Vance" mention above put me in mind of Vance &
Pockriss, a team of writers/producers/artists who did a
lot of stuff out of New York. I believe they had a
single as "Lee [Pockriss] & Paul [Vance]" on Columbia,
and Pockriss wrote Paul Evans & the Curls' "Seven Little
Girls Sitting In The Back Seat." I know they did tons
more stuff as well. Anyone fill in the blanks?
"Enamorado" by Keith Colley is wonderful! i went digging
through the collection - I have 3 Keith Colley records;
the original "Enamorado" (Unical 3006); a 1964 follow-up
on VeeJay (VJ 682), "Bllly Girl" (okay folk-pop
adaptation of the nursery rhyme)/"Welcome Home Baby"
(semi-Spectorian sound engineered by Larry Levine and
co-written with "P. Sloan" - could that be P.F?); and a
January, 1968 Columbia remake of "Enamorado" (as
overplayed as the original is understated) backed with
"Shame Shame" which Colley Wrote and was a hit for the
Magic Lanterns (Atlantic). This last is produced by Gary
Usher, but only a requirement for completists IMO.
Incidentally, I dug out the Dick St. John Dot 45 (#17080,
1968) I mentioned a coupla notes back is "Lady of the
Burning Green Jade" (wr. Hoyt Axton, an attempt at
psych)/"Childhood" (wr. David Cohen; later David Blue on
Asylum? a petulant putting-down-the-girl track). Again,
probably for completists only.
Mike Edwards, setting aside the relevance of UK vs. US
styles, check out the Playmates' "The Day I Died"
(Roulette, 1961): "I dreamed the jukebox played the day I
died .... And when I lay in state, I could've flipped my
lid - do you know what I dreamed the jockeys went and did?
They bought up all my records in each and every town and
played them simultaneously - man what a sound!"
Kingsley Abbott wrote:
> Pipkin & Coefield were always two names I look for in
> the small print....[The] Valiants with Bill Storm [had]
> releases on Keen, Ensign and Shar Dee in the '57 - '59
> period....They were also the Electras at one point
> around the Happy Tones time[.]
I forgot about the Valiants - "This Is The Night" has a
superb Billy Storm lead. (I've actually got it on a 78!)
Tying in, Billy Storm had an almost-hit with "Love Theme
>From El Cid" (almost Johnny Mathis-like) on Infinity
(60-62 period), the same label as the Electra's "Ten
Steps to Love." These guys must have had an identity
crisis with all their different names! :-)
Country Paul
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:27:07 -0000
From: "Tim Viney"
Subject: British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
"Ian Slater" wrote:
> But too many [British covers] were anaemic and
> totally unoriginal attempts at a carbon copy - the
> worst that comes to mind is the attempt by some gang
> called "the Four Most" to copy the 4 Tops classic
> "Baby I Need Your Loving".
>
I have to disagree. The Liverpool group The Fourmost
produced a creditable version of the Four Tops "Baby I
Need Your Loving". Mike Millward's soulful voice was
well suited to the song. It remains one of the
Fourmost's greatest recorded moments.
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 04:02:39 -0000
From: Don Baylis
Subject: Brit Covers vs US Covers
> I saw some recent comments about the inferiority of
> British cover versions of American records in the late
> 50s/early 60s.
This was not a one way street .. US covers of Brit
songs also could leave alot to be desired .. I suggest
listening to the Bobby Vee cover of Adam Faith's 'What
Do You Want' (Liberty 55234) .. to not hear it again
would suffice.
> As someone who has twice now criticized British cover
> versions, I have to agree that there were good ones. ...
> "Only Sixteen" by Craig Douglas.
Definitely have to agree with this, even today Craig's
version sounds fresh, and still better than Sam Cooke.
Also his covers of Pretty Blue Eyes and Sandy equal, if
not better, those of the American originals, Steve
Lawrence and Larry Hall.
Ahhhhhh, the good old days .. I just played the 45 of
Tommy Steele singing 'Nairobi' ... only a 44 year old
record .. Yikes !!!!
Don Baylis
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 04:50:31 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
> But too many were anaemic and totally unoriginal attempts
> at a carbon copy - the worst that comes to mind is the
> attempt by some gang called "the Four Most" to copy the 4
> Tops classic "Baby I Need Your Loving".
I just heard this version, and its not such a bad cover,
it's typical of most British R&B covers of that time.
They even (very ambitiously) attempt to copy the EQ and
production of the Motown 45, with a very compressed drum
mix and lots of reverb. But the vocals are no match for
Levi Stubbs and company!
If you want bad UK cover versions check out the Searchers
so-trite versions of "Money", "Da Doo Ron Ron" or "Twist
& Shout" (which gets me doing neither). They might have
worked fine in the clubs but didn't translate well on
vinyl. Or check out the early Hollies sloppy cover of The
Coasters' "Searchin'" which was a big UK hit. But they
got it right for "Just One Look" and they did a great 100
mph version of "Stay"!
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:23:16 EST
From: Dave Gardner
Subject: Re: the first synth on a pop record
> > Anyway, here is the key thing about No Good To Cry.
> > I am willing to state categorically (whatever that
> > means), that this record was the first use ever of a
> > synthesizer on a pop record.
>
> (...), but the credits of the Monkees' fine 1967 LP
> Pisces, Aquarius... credits Micky Dolenz and Paul
> Beaver as playing Moog synthesizer (...). Walter Carlos'
> Bach LP came out in '68, and the Bunnies presumably
> recorded after that.
That probably depends what you call a synthesizer...
what about the Ran-Dells 'Martian Hop'?
http://www.letstalkoldies.com/WebX?displayNode@212.aWfCaXSTbNV^0@!id=.ef97691
-dave
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:36:54 -0000
From: "Phil Chapman"
Subject: Al Hazan
Simon:
> And off on another tangent, "Nutrocker" was one of the
> first things I ever bought and wore it out....
Having checked out the links on your recommended Dora
Hall page, it transpires that the keyboard player on
"Nutrocker" was none other than the multi-talented Al
Hazan (aka Ali Hassan, Philles 103). Not only did he
write songs for Dora Hall, but also wrote "Beyond The
Surf" included on Jack Nitzsche's first album, and
"That's All I Want"/"I Waited Too Long" for Terry Day
(Doris's lad), arranged & conducted by Jack. His
recording "Force Of Love"/"Is It A Sin" under the name
of Al Anthony, is noted as Jack Nitzsche's very first
arrangement. And he comes across as refreshingly modest.
Read more about him at
http://www.bellsisters.com/more-about-hazan.html
Phil
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:30:55 -0500
From: "Javed Jafri"
Subject: Re: Shhh Here's a Trivia Tip +Bonus Prize !
Simon White Wrote :
> Javed , I for one dont know the answer to the question !
> { is it Br**e ?}
> But I propose that one week we all make a concerted
> effort to answer the question and make every one of the
> winners a Spectropop member !
I think you may be on the right track at least if Fred
Bronson, the Billboard trivia master, is on the same
wavelength. You are one letter off hopefully intentionally
so as not to give it away). Anyway Jeff Lemlich is right
many of the questions are not too hard. The trick is to
answer early as only the first 20 correct respondents win.
I can see a Spectropop sweep in the works if we all try on
a Friday afternoon EST time) when they first post the
questions. Believe it or not there have been weeks where
they have not had the requisite 20 winners so some
questions are challenging.
Tell you what gang. Just for fun and because I love trivia
I'm going to pose a question which was used by Billboard
few years ago and the first person on the list to email me
OFF LIST with the correct responses will win two CD's from
me ( Billboards Hot Soul hits from 1980 and Hot Country
Hits from 1962 ). I will post the correct answers to the
list after I have a winner.
Here is the question :
Which groups who have charted on the Hot 100 were named
after the following:
1. A Bowling alley in New Jersey
2. A villain in Barbarella
3. The flip side of a Ventures single
4, A furniture store in Hull, England
5. A Vulcan queen in Star Trek
6. A telephone exchange in Olympia, Wash.
7. A 18th century agriculturist
8. A horror Film starring Dirk Bogarde
Winner must get all of the above correct....good luck !
Javed
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:47:13 +0000
From: "Jake Tassell"
Subject: L.A. Visit
Hello all
I've got a job in L.A. next week (quite excited - first
time in the U.S.)
Can any kind soul here give me a couple of pointers for
'places of interest for Spector/Beach Boys/W.O.S. fans'?
(oh and perhaps some good record shops, radio stations
etc)
Thanks in advance
Jake
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:58:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: re: THE WHAT FOUR
Greetings,
Original Message from Nick Archer:
> Is there any additional information or discography for the
> What Four? Just curious.
The What Four comprised Cathy Cochran, China Girard, Diane
Hartford and Lizzie Burke. "It was 1966 and Columbia
Records had just signed the least talented act in history..."
Their guitarist - well, I say guitarist - Cathy Cochran
confessed all in an interview in issue #239 of Record
Collector magazine a couple of years ago. Subscription and
back-issue information is available from
According to the article, the group that recorded for
Capitol are a different What Four to the Columbia act.
However, I'm not totally convinced. Their "I'm Gonna
Destroy That Boy" is a big favourite of mine.
MICK PATRICK
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:37:17 EST
From: Michael Rashkow
Subject: Re: Genevieve Gilles
In a message dated 2/9/2002, Mick Patrick writes:
> What I was hoping to find was another of
> Rashkovsky's PINEYWOOD stories. Perhaps there's a
> tale to be told about HELLO, GOODBYE by GENEVIEVE
> GILLES, released on 20th Century Fox in 1969 and
> produced by MIKE RASHKOW and ELLIE GREENWICH. The
> label says it's from the movie of the same name.
> The b-side is an instrumental titled DANNY'S THEME.
> To my knowledge Miss Gilles made no other records.
> That's all I know. What else is there to tell, Mike?
Mick, it would be, as always, a pleasure to tell the
tale--in this case, tail. Speaking of haircuts, I actually
got a decent one the other day in Ormond Beach, FL.
Haircuts are a roll of the dice when one is a nomad,
believe me. Only dentists are an equivalent problem. I
actually once got a haircut from a guy in Lexington, KY
who, while he was doing the cut, was telling me that he
learned to cut hair while he was in prison. He lived up to
his training.
But Gigi---Genevieve Gilles--oh boy. That's a hot one.
I'll need to check a few basics before beginnning the
recitation of the dirty details. Like I thought the song
was titled I Have Felt The Fire and the movie it came from
was Hello Goodbye. Danny's Theme? I thought it was
LeGoff's Theme.
Hang in there, I believe it will be worth the wait--not X
rated but certainly interesting. I'll be back to you
shortly--and thanks for asking.
Rashkovsky
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:48:12 -0800
From: "Ken Levine"
Subject: Tommy Vance
For all you British Spectropoppers, is Tommy Vance still
on the radio? He had a short stint in Los Angeles in the
60's then moved on to Radio Caroline. I remember him as
being quite good.
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:28:37 +0100 (CET)
From: Georg Schneider
Subject: Re: British Cover versions of the 50s and 60s
Hi to all,
I'm a 50s and 60s fan from Switzerland. Can anybody help?
Want to trade with me? I'm searching for recordings by the
Searchers, The Liverbirds, The Troggs and whatever. I'm 35
years old. Please send me an answer soon, off-list.
Regards from Switzerland,
Georg
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:00:12 +0000
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re-Al Hazan
Phil Chapman wrote
> the keyboard player on "Nutrocker" was none other
> than the multi-talented Al Hazan (aka Ali Hassan,
> Philles 103).'
This is what I extracted from my own notes.....true or
false? The web site isn't specific
Hollywood photographer Ali Pousan on piano and harpsichord.
Pousan, who occasionally indulged in different spellings
of his name Le Al Hazzan and Ali Hassan issued one or two
singles of his own during the early 60's.
Best Wishes
Richard
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