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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Alan Gordon and Preston Ritter
From: David Coyle
2. Re: Food fight!!!!!/Parrots/Revolution Revelation/Publishing
From: That Alan Gordon
3. Re: ...On The Cookies
From: David Coyle
4. Re: Lesley Miller
From: Tom
5. Re: Lulu
From: David Coyle
6. Birthdays; Cinders; Gonzo; Wayne, Artie & Fountains; other
From: Country Paul
7. Listen To "Lesley's World" at musica
From: Tom
8. Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
From: Phil Milstein
9. Streisand and Zacherly (Whatta combo!)
From: Greg Matecko
10. Re: Instrumentals with lyrics
From: frank 2
11. Props to the Mickster
From: Dave Feldman
12. Re: Bobby Vee
From: Jim Allio
13. Slow Psych and Garage Songs
From: Greg Matecko
14. Re: Lesley Miller
From: Jim Allio
15. Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
From: Mikey
16. Re: "What Goes On?"
From: Don Charles
17. Re: Lulu
From: JB
18. Streisand, Nyro, and "The Ronstadt Law"
From: Chris A
19. Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
From: Billy G. Spradlin
20. Re: Lulu
From: Simon White
21. Re: Bobby Vee
From: Bob
22. Re: "What Goes On?"
From: That Alan Gordon
23. Re: "Dew Drop Inn"
From: That Alan Gordon
24. Re: :55 / Jake Holmes / words & music
From: Phil Milstein
25. Re: "Sleeping Out The Storm"/ Jerome Bros.
From: That Alan Gordon
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Alan Gordon and Preston Ritter
Boy, what I get for not checking my e-mail for days!
Um, it's great to see Alan and Preston on the list.
I'm sure you both are thinking "why did I say anything
in the first place?" Probably a lot of '60s music
personalities read these lists and rue the day anyone
finds out they're around. I saw a post once from a
ddimucci and wrote the address to see if it was Dion,
and got a nice but slightly embarrassed reply from Mr.
Wanderer himself saying his daughter had come up with
the i.d. without thinking of the consequences.
Anyway, I can't let this go without giving my own two
cents worth. Alan, I love the songs you wrote with
Garry Bonner, and I really like the "Invitation To
Cry" CD on Sundazed. I've been in situations where the
title track would have been a great soundtrack to my
life. Right now, I'm in a "Happy Together/She'd Rather
Be With Me" situation.
Didn't you guys write the song "Sleeping Out The Storm"?
I have that on a 45 by the Furnacemen, backed with a
version of "It's Waiting There For You," originally
recorded by the Fifth Estate (I think it was written
by Wayne Wadhams). What do you know about the recording?
It's on Jubilee, which implies that the people behind
the Fifth Estate had something to do with it. The Fifth
Estate recorded "Dew Drop Inn" as well didn't they?
Preston, I love the Electric Prunes. Just bought the
"Stockholm 67" CD...are you on it? Have you ever heard
The Space Lady's version of "I Had Too Much To Dream
Last Night"? She used to play Casio keyboard in the
NYC subways while wearing a Viking helmet. Her version
is very ethereal, psychedelic and delicate. I've
always thought of the Prunes version as an example of
"bad trip psych," as opposed to "good trip psych," as
in the Strawberry Alarm Clock...even though the song
really doesn't have much to do with drugs when you
think about it.
I could think of a lot more questions, but you guys
are probably questioned out. Thanks for coming on
board though, nice to see bonafide behind-the-scenes
people around like Artie, Alan and Preston.
David
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:45:07 -0700 (MST)
From: That Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: Food fight!!!!!/Parrots/Revolution Revelation/Publishing
Mark Frumento, has suggested Artie Wayne join the rockin'
opposition. Artie, I know a boy from the Bronx would never
side against a Brooklyn boy, right?
BINGO! Jeff, you are a bingo-bell ringer with your Game 1
winner. I can't remember if I ever heard it. I think you
would like "Julie".
Steve wanted to know the story about the Joe Butler
(Spoonful). Well Steve I think you already nailed it.
I guess you can't blame him for trying to keep something
good going! The song of ours I like the most on the LP
is "Till I Run With You". We also wrote the late Zal Yanovsky
single "As Long As You're Here".
Rashkovsky - Oops, I shoulda kept my mouth shut!!! and minded
my own 2 cents!
Orion - Anders and Poncia had some nice things out. I think
they wrote their own songs, we'll soon find out won't we. One
song that comes to mind is, I think, called "Barbara".
My wife wants to know why I can't keep away from all you
S'poppers. BECAUSE I'M LOVIN THIS, THAT'S WHY!
You guys are GREAT!!!
S'pop RULES!!!
That Alan
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: ...On The Cookies
"Chains" is one of the underrated highlights of the
Beatles debut album (a latecomer on "The Early
Beatles" in the US). I always thought "Don't Say
Nothing Bad About My Baby" would have been a good
followup for the Fabs, if not some other British
Invasion group. Perfect for John, right up there with
his performance of "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby" on
the BBC, in attitude and lyrical content.
David
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:16:39 -0000
From: Tom
Subject: Re: Lesley Miller
Mark T wrote:
> I am assuming that the Lesley's song that is being spoken
> about by Orpheus is Lesley Miller, who was married to Alan
> Lorber. She had 5 or 6 singles on RCA and MGM and most of
> them are quite good. Anyone know anything more about her?
Here is what I found on a 'Bob Dylan Covers' website.
http://www.dylancoveralbums.com/other.htm
If anyone has the Orpheus "fan only" CD mentioned on this site,
please contact me.
Tom
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Coyle
Subject: Re: Lulu
You guys didn't mention two other of Lulu's pre-"Sir"
rockers..."Shout" and "Surprise Surprise". While
"Shout" is a little overdone in my opinion, "Surprise
Surprise" really shows her off. Her snotty, vindictive
vocal blows the Stones original away, and should be
enough to make anyone forgive her "To Sir With Love".
David
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:03:11 -0400
From: Country Paul
Subject: Birthdays; Cinders; Gonzo; Wayne, Artie & Fountains; other
I promise not to do this every day - but today [October 14]'s
birthdays include:
1940 - Cliff Richard [Harry Webb], England
1943 - Noreen Corcoran, Quincy, Mass, actress (Kelly -
Bachelor Father) and singer ("Love Kitten," VeeJay)
1946 - Justin Hayward, singer (Moody Blues)
1958 - Thomas Dolby, musician ("She Blinded Me With Science" and more)
And in 1990, Leonard Bernstein died at age 72.
Martin, the Cinders, "Cinnamon Cinder," now playing at the
Jack Nitzsche page, is interesting, but the Pastel Six version
is rawer and IMO more fun. This sounds like a slick studio
creation; the Pastel Six has a more garage-y feel. Interesting
to hear it, though.
Phil Milstein wrote:
> Here is the list [of instrumentals] so far.
Can we add to it James Booker's amazing "Gonzo" (Peacock, 1961?)
with the jazz/blues organist sharing the lead with an amazing
flute player. What a groove! And speaking of flutes, did we
toss the Moe Koffman Quartet's "Swingin' Shepherd Blues" into
the mix yet? And Andre Previn/David Rose's "Like Young" also had
lyrics put to it, but I don't remember who wrote them or sang it.
Bob Rashkow:
> ...[D]id Shelby Flint sing Cast Your Fate before Vince
> Guaraldi recorded it or Vince Versa [?]
Guaraldi did it first. And who is Vince Versa - a character on
The Sopranos? :-) (Yes - I got your pun....)
Artie Wayne:
> ...the unrecorded version of ["Happy Together"] by
> pop group Fountains of Wayne.
Now THAT would be something. BTW, if any of you are not yet
familiar with Fountains of Wayne, I strongly recommend their
current ("Welcome Interstate Managers") and immediate past
("Utopia Parkway") CDs. If S'pop were a 2000s group instead
of '60s, I feel like they'd be one of our major defining artists.
(Also check out their side project, Ivy; the song "Edge of The
Ocean" defines S'pop updated - Pure Paris Sisters for Now People.)
Richard Havers:
> ...Frank Sinatra's album, 'Watertown'; all the songs
> were written by Bob Gaudio and Jake Holmes.
Interestingly, I was just listening to Jake Holmes' first single,
"Saturday Night" (Tower, late 60s). Excellent arrangement and
performance; the lyrics "may protest too much", but it was the
times, man....
That Alan:
> Irwin said I'd like you to meet the American Beatles
> {I remained stunned]. They were recording Irwin's
> song "Let`s Call It A Day Girl".
Alan and Jeff Lemlich, interesting that this the same group that
had "Don't Be Unkind" on Roulette; what a difference in sound!
And thank you, Alan, for your kind reply to my Garry Bonner
session question. I would love to have heard the "drum and bagpipe"
track. Any chance of playing it to musica? And does our resident
Nitzsche-ologist Martin Roberts know about this?
All caught up!!!
Country Paul
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:12:59 -0000
From: Tom
Subject: Listen To "Lesley's World" at musica
For all of you who haven't heard "Lesley's World", the 'B' side
from the first single by Orpheus, I just played it to musica.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica
Tom
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:26:42 -0400
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
Mikey wrote:
> I have a great love song from the late 60s on tape called "Melody
> For An Unknown Girl" I need to know the Artist and record label if
> possible.
> Oh yes, its NOT the Paul Revere and The Raiders version.
> (Mikey, might it be the Unknowns, released on Parrot 307 in 1966?
> Signed, Smarty Pants S'pop Moderator)
Jeff Lemlich wrote:
> Smarty Pants S'pop Moderator is right. The Unknowns were a studio
> side-project of Steve Alaimo, Mark Lindsay, and Keith Allison,
> during down-time in the taping of the "Where The Action Is" TV
> show. They did a pretty good version of the Raiders' song "Tighter"
> for Marlin Records in '67.
Was this the same version as the one released by the Raiders, or a
rerecording? If the latter, any clue which came first?
--Phil M.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:59:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Matecko
Subject: Streisand and Zacherly (Whatta combo!)
Jimmy Botticelli:
> Anyone love her take on Laura Nyro's "Flim Flam Man" and "Stoney
> End" as much as I do?
Yep! Matter o'fact, I heard Babs' versions first, back in the day,
which made me look into this "Nero chick". Read the bio, bought
the CDs!
From: Herb: Subject: Weird Watusi
> Hallowe'en is approaching.... I have looked and enquired about
> the John Zacherlie LP "The Monster Mash" that came out in 1962.
> One of the tracks was "Weird Watusi" - a reworking of "The Wah-
> Watusi" by The Orlons. My enquiry: Has anyone heard of/seen this
> album in CD form? I do have the vinyl copy but no means to play it.
I've always loved this LP...the one I have is coverless and in an
unplayable condition. I've been looking for a good copy for years,
and just found out a friend has it and is willing to burn a copy for
me. He said it was reissued at one point on vinyl, but I don't recall
on what label.
As for a CD release...heh heh...it's on Parkway.
Two words: Allan Klein. 'Nuff said!
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:08:05 +0200
From: frank 2
Subject: Re: Instrumentals with lyrics
Nick Archer:
> Also, wasn't "Town Without Pity" a redo
> of the movie theme with lyrics added?
I haven't seen the film in a long time but I remember hearing
Gene Pitney over the end titles
Frank
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:16:55 -0400
From: Dave Feldman
Subject: Props to the Mickster
The Tony Hatch article was worth the wait, Mr. Patrick.
Thanks for your efforts. Glad to see the Lulu discussion,
too. I agree with Ken Silverwood that "Oh Me Oh My" is
a masterpiece. It's a great song, and a great performance.
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:01:36 EDT
From: Jim Allio
Subject: Re: Bobby Vee
I always dug Bobby Vee, too. Some of his later 60s material
I have yet to see on CD, like "Let's Call It A Day, Girl" and
the awesome "In and Out of Love" (not the Supremes song), a
B-side that was a hit in the Bay Area. Still looking for those
and other Vee songs!
Jim Allio
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:13:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Matecko
Subject: Slow Psych and Garage Songs
I may hold the record for being behind on a mailing list -
I probably have at least six months worth of Spectropop saved
up to read! Checking in recently, I see we're joined by the
Electric Prunes' drummer as well as a few of my favorite
songwriters! Very cool.
One of my favorite Prunes tunes is "Oney." I also like
"Love Lights" by the Sonics and "Flowers and Beads" by
Iron Butterfly. (I was one of the few kids in the 60s
who actually turned the LP over!)
So, I now attempt to put the Spectropop collective mind to work:
what other psych and garage slow toons based on the above are
worth looking for?
Resistance is futile...begin your suggestions!
Greg Matecko [whose early-80s band used to start the night
with "Too Much To Dream"]
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:03:05 EDT
From: Jim Allio
Subject: Re: Lesley Miller
I have a couple of Lesley Miller tracks on 60s girl/group group
CDs, one of which is about not hanging up the telephone and is
quite rockin'. I remember a song by her in I think 1964 called
"Once A Fool" that was great. I couldn't get it out of my head
when they played it on the radio but I have never seen it since,
even written about. Great girl group type song.
Jim Allio
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:24:26 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
Philly......it's the same song as released by The Raiders,
but of course a different version of it.
I believe The Raiders were first with it, as it's on a 1966
LP "Just Like Me".
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:08:19 -0000
From: Don Charles
Subject: Re: "What Goes On?"
That Alan Gordon wrote:
> BINGO, How do you guys do it!!! Yes Ritchie Adams and I
> wrote that song.
How involved did you get with The Archies, Alan?
Did you sing background on the recording sessions
with Ron Dante and Merle Miller?
Don "Stuffed Animal" Charles
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:13:49 EDT
From: JB
Subject: Re: Lulu
Why would anyone here have to "forgive" Lulu for her pop
material -- isn't this a webgroup for "pop" lovers? I loved
"To Sir..." and that ilk. The only point being made in regards
to Lulu's recent appearance on the Blues series is that she
also has cred to handle the gritty stuff.
JB
Spectropop - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:59:51 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: Chris A
Subject: Streisand, Nyro, and "The Ronstadt Law"
From: James Botticelli:
> Anyone love [Streisand's] take on Laura Nyro's
> Flim Flam Man and Stoney End as much as I do?
Although I'm fond of the album, Streisand's take on Nyro never
did much for me. I preferred her version of Newman's "Let Me Go"
and Nilsson's "Maybe". But perhaps that was a result of my being
familiar with Nyro's originals and not with Newman or Nilsson
singing those two songs?
It's a bit reminiscent of what I always thought of as "The Ronstadt
Law": One can listen to L.R. and enjoy her versions of songs, and
there's good reason to enjoy them, but ... as soon as you hear the
originals you can never listen to the Ronstadt again.
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:49:49 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: Melody for an Unknown Girl
Mikey wrote:
> I believe The Raiders were first with it, as it's on a 1966
> LP "Just Like Me".
Correction - It's on the Raiders' 1966 "Midnight Ride" LP.
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:59:41 +0100
From: Simon White
Subject: Re: Lulu
Funny innit.
I always thought that "To Sir With Love" and "I'll Come
Running Over" were the only half decent records she ever made.
If anything else was any real good, she'd be a mega-star now,
given that white girls with an R'n'B sound are always popular.
But to each his own.
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:11:22 -0000
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Bobby Vee
Jim Allio wrote:
> I always dug Bobby Vee, too. Some of his later 60s material
> I have yet to see on CD, like "Let's Call It A Day, Girl" and
> the awesome "In and Out of Love" (not the Supremes song), a
> B-side that was a hit in the Bay Area. Still looking for
> those and other Vee songs!
Jim,
"Let's Call It A Day Girl" is on the UK 2 CD set "Essential &
Collectable" but in mono. "In & Out Of Love" still hasn't made
it to CD. Luckily, both singles were pressed in stereo.
However, they are really hard to find as the stereo version of
"Let's Call It A Day Girl"/"I'm Gonna Make It Up To You" was
available only on a special black label dj issue, not the common
beige audition label, and "In & Out of Love" was in stereo in dj
form only. Mono and stereo audition copies were pressed of both
releases with the mono copies being more readily available. If
you are interested in hearing these or any other Vee rarities,
drop me a note at Veefriends@yahoo.com with what you're looking
for.
Bob
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:12:02 -0700 (MST)
From: That Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: "What Goes On?"
Don (Stuffed Animal) wanted to know if I sang on any of the
Archies' records. The answer is no, I only wrote that song.
Best,
That Alan
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:19:44 -0700 (MST)
From: That Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: "Dew Drop Inn"
Country Paul,
Regarding "Dew Drop Inn", two things:
1 - I don’t even have a copy, sad to say, I wish I did.
2 - With my little web tv, I can’t even get on musica, I don’t
think? Gonna have to get a real computer!
That Alan
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:25:09 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: :55 / Jake Holmes / words & music
Country Paul wrote:
> "News live at :55" was the handle; ABC for a time ran different
> newscasts oriented to different demographics in their delivery
> and content; "Contemporary" ran at :55, the mainstream on the
> hour.
After posting my comment on WABC, I read up on the rationale for
their policy of news at 5 before the hour. The idea was not to
capture newshounds looking to get their fix ASAP, but rather the
opposite, to capture musichounds searching the dial for THEIR fix
once the other stations all went to news at straight-up time.
Of course, those same listeners probably ran FROM 'ABC when they
started their news at 5 of, but back then FCC regulations mandated
that all commercial stations run a certain amount of news every hour
anyway.
> Interestingly, I was just listening to Jake Holmes' first single,
> "Saturday Night" (Tower, late 60s). Excellent arrangement and
> performance; the lyrics "may protest too much", but it was the
> times, man....
There's an article on Jake Holmes in the new Ugly Things:
http://www.ugly-things.com
> Can we add to it James Booker's amazing "Gonzo" (Peacock, 1961?)
> with the jazz/blues organist sharing the lead with an amazing
> flute player. What a groove! And speaking of flutes, did we
> toss the Moe Koffman Quartet's "Swingin' Shepherd Blues" into
> the mix yet? And Andre Previn/David Rose's "Like Young" also had
> lyrics put to it, but I don't remember who wrote them or sang it.
Thanks, Paul. Are all of those versions straight instros, or
instro-con-vocals?
Kurt Benbenek wrote:
> You make an interesting point. Are pop instrumentals 'songs'?
> I think so, yes. Pop instrumentals are often assigned fourth-
> class status because they lack words. They may not even be
> considered 'songs' or finished compositions because they lack
> lyrics or a human voice.
I'm with Kurt on this one. Where is it written that a song is
only a song if it has words to it? Many songs occur in both
instrumental and vocal versions -- are these pieces only songs
when in the latter condition, then suddenly something else (and
what would that be called?) when stripped of those words?
The issue also raises some interesting copyright and royalty
questions, about which I've long been curious. I believe the U.S.
music copyright form allows for (but does not require) the
separation of credit for the words and music. Does that mean that
when such a song is performed in an instrumental version, that
only the composer should be credited (and paid)? What about in
those cases where the distinction between lyricist and composer is
well-known (but not necessarily filed as such in copyright forms),
such as with Bacharach and David: should an instrumental version
of "Do You Know The Way To San Jose," for instance, be credited
only to Bacharach?
One thing that I believe the separatability of words and music
does prove is the ultimate importance of the music component.
Lyrics without music make good fodder for a 7th grade English class;
music without words makes for a large body of timeless recordings.
--Phil Milstein
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:29:39 -0700 (MST)
From: That Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: "Sleeping Out The Storm"/ Jerome Bros.
David Coyle wrote:
> Didn't you guys write the song "Sleeping Out The Storm"?
> I have that on a 45 by the Furnacemen, backed with a
> version of "It's Waiting There For You," originally
> recorded by the Fifth Estate (I think it was written
> by Wayne Wadhams). What do you know about the recording?
> It's on Jubilee, which implies that the people behind
> the Fifth Estate had something to do with it.
David,
"Sleeping Out The Storm" is one of my favorite Gordon and
Bonner songs. I'm not aware of the recording you mentioned,
but if I had to guess, I would say the Jerome Brothers (Bill
and Steve) produced the record. Those 2 guys were really
something else, very funny and talented to boot. Anybody in
the group have some more info on the Jerome Brothers?
That Alan
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