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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. A Moderators' Plea
From: S'pop Team
2. Re: The Ventures
From: John Fox
3. Re: Bad Lines
From: Scott Charbonneau
4. Re: Orpheus
From: Orion
5. Re: Bad Lines
From: Paul Bryant
6. Re: Talk about Mi...na
From: Patrick Rands
7. Re: Best Lines
From: Tom Taber
8. Re: Aldon Music Staffers
From: Joe Nelson
9. Re: Da da-da da
From: Jon Adelson
10. Re: The Ventures
From: Paul Bryant
11. Re: Bad Lines
From: S.J. Dibai
12. The Fleetwoods
From: Julio Nino
13. Re: Jerry Yester
From: Kevin
14. Re: Orpheus
From: Art Longmire
15. Monty Babson
From: David Bell
16. Re: Bad rhymes/bad grammar
From: Clay S.
17. Christmas with Dusty (and Rod)
From: David A Young
18. Re: The Ventures
From: Steve Harvey
19. Re: "The Long Black Veil"
From: Steve Harvey
20. Tupper Saussy photo in photo section
From: Nick Archer
21. Re: Spector / Spoonful connection
From: Steve Harvey
22. Re: Goodbye Girl
From: S.J. Dibai
23. cleaned up lyrics
From: Phil Chapman
24. Re: The two Dolphin labels
From: Andrew Jones
25. Re: Tupper Saussy photo in photo section
From: Jeff Lemlich
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:58:25 -0000
From: S'pop Team
Subject: A Moderators' Plea
Dear Members,
Do spare a thought for your over-worked moderators during
this period of feverish activity here at the S'pop Discussion
Forum.
Each message takes at least two minutes for a moderator
to process. At an average of over 40 messages a day, that adds
up to a lot of time. Remember that your moderators are all
unpaid volunteers. Here are a few simple ways you could make
their work a little less time-consuming:
1) Always, always put your name at the end of your message.
2) When responding to a message, please do not quote the
entire message to which you are replying. A few lines, quoted
at the beginning, along with the name of the person that posted
the message, are all that's required.
3) Please put the subject in the message header. Simply noting
'Digest Number xxxx' requires the moderator to search through
an entire digest to establish the subject of the reply.
4) You've seen the neat style in which S'pop messages are
presented. Please try to submit your messages in that same
style.
We thank you.
The S'pop Team
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:38:29 EST
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: The Ventures
Previously:
Were they - what's the phrase - big in Japan??
In a word, yes. One of the first great live albums is
"The Ventures on Stage", recorded in Japan around 1964
(which as I recall is one of those classic short albums
we were discussing a few weeks ago--maybe 12 2-minute songs).
Also classic are the Japanese announcer's introduction of the
band, and a bit where I believe he tries to find something in
their equipment that's made in Japan and can only come up with
a cord. I just checked and there is a compilation CD with 29
songs on it, all recorded live in Japan, for $16.95. It even
includes a version of "When You Walk In The Room" (which seems
to be becoming the patron saint song of Spectropop).
Here's a link to the album: http://tinyurl.com/ywklm
John Fox
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:52:50 -0000
From: Scott Charbonneau
Subject: Re: Bad Lines
Another gem from Dylan, this one from "Million Dollar Bash":
I looked at my watch, I looked at my wrist
I punched myself in the face with my fist.
Gets me cracking up every time.
Scott
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:57:36 -0500
From: Orion
Subject: Re: Orpheus
The Orpheus Compilations that are out are great and it really
helps to point out how some groups, regardless of talent, were
never allowed to shine. The Big Beat version though, which you
can still find, is the best, encompassing two CDs. I have it
and it is definitely one of the few CDs I would not part with.
Orion
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:34:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Bad Lines
duojet wrote:
> Ah, you forgot Sonny's classic solo album "Inner Views"
> and the magnum opus "I Just Sit There", which contains
> the fantastic line:
> "Your sister's still a virgin, your mother's cooking sturgeon"
Wow, after that one I just sit there too, stunned
pb
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:00:27 -0000
From: Patrick Rands
Subject: Re: Talk about Mi...na
Julio Niño wrote:
> I've been listening this afternoon to some tracks sung in
> English by Mina..........."Il cielo..." is a perfect song,
> composed by the ultracool Gino Paoli (whose version of the
> song, arranged and conducted by Ennio Morricone, is so
> beautiful that it's scary).
Hi Julio,
I can't help you out with your Mina question, but I do agree that
Gino Paoli's version of "Il cielo in una stanza" is astounding. I
played that and many other great songs this past May on a 1960s
Italian music spotlight radio show, the tracklisting can be found
here:
http://www.spectropop.com/archive/digest/d890.htm
:Patrick
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:28:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Taber
Subject: Re: Best Lines
Bob Hanes wrote:
> The Lovin Spoonful- "and ran out the doo(r)flambeau"
I've always been fond of lyrics that are fun to sing.
A woman once told me "there is a very thin line between the
highly erotic, and the totally gross", and I think the same
applies to best/worst song lyrics. The "isn't him too" line
from the Ronettes has to be one of my favorites - maybe
because as a country boy it sounded so urban and ethnic to
my ears.
Favorite line I ever wrote:
"He mopes and moans and ya-da-ya-da,
The letter smells like Camp Granada"
Tom Taber
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:42:59 -0500
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: Re: Aldon Music Staffers
Mikey wrote:
>Don't forget Koppelman and Rubin (3 O'Clock Rock).
K&R wrote for Aldon? I know when they got into music publishing
they named a company Chardon (after their names CHARles Koppelman
and DONald Rubin - much as Aldon was named after AL Nevins and DON
Kirshner). I wasn't aware of an Aldon connection, but in this context
it stands not only as inspiration from the bosses, but as a tribute
as well.
Joe Nelson
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:23:26 -0000
From: Jon Adelson
Subject: Re: Da da-da da
Rashkowsky wrote:
>> ...for all the honest world to feel.
> > OK Adelson--what song are the last 7 words from, huh?
Unfortunately, my mind is suffering acute inertia trying to
identify the Da da-da da song (aka the do me-so fa song). I
was about to dive into Google when I read your admonition
about playing fair.
Thus, I admit I didn't have a clue until Dan Hughes' post.
Actually, it sounds like a coke commercial to me. "I'd like
to teach the world to sing, so all of us can heal, to share
the joy of Coke for all, the honest world to feel."
(Sorry, no one can use this as a "worst lyric/rhyme" - admin.
says keep it to 60s songs :-) )
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Love that song but don't understand it. Pancho Villa?
> Lefty Frizzell? Pancho Sanza? Lefty Gomez? Pancho and Cisco?
> Huh?
Ah, of course..."Frizzell and Gomez"
(I've waited for this moment) ra ta tat
Jon Adelson
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:39:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: The Ventures
Mikey wrote:
> What people forget is that The Ventures had a whopping 17
> charted singles from 1960 to 1970...yet they are known in
> the business as album sellers.
Whew! I'm impressed. However, my Billboard Book of Top 40 hits
gives a measly 6 hits to the Ventures, commencing with "Walk
Don't Run" in 1960, and ending with "Hawaii-Five-O" in 1969.
When you say they had 17 charted singles, what are you actually
referring to?
pb
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:03:33 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Bad Lines
I can think of a few grammatical atrocities in '60s music.
How about The New Colony Six's "I Confess"? "I confess to have a
willingness and wanting for you/To have you here by me and here by
me all my life through." That has to be one of the most disjointed,
most poorly worded couplets I've ever heard.
Chad and Jeremy's "Before and After", written by Van McCoy:
"I used to be happy as he, 'til I lost you somehow/
Though I don't show it, you wouldn't know it to look at me now."
Huh? "Though I don't show it, you wouldn't know it"??? Wouldn't the
girl to whom the narrator is singing not know "it" *because* he
doesn't show "it"?
And there's C&J's self-composed "Why Should I Care", which includes
the line "Everybody knows about you, the way you treated me bad"--or
at least that's how it's listed on C&J's official website. But
really, they sing, "Everybody knows about you way you treated me
bad"! They sang it that way to fit it into the melody, but they
could just as easily have said, "Everybody knows about THE way you
treated me bad." (Yes, I know it should be "badly".)
The Magnificent Men, "Peace Of Mind", in which I *think* the lead
singer says "All the things that are rougher come, I got tougher
from." Shudder.
Let's not forget The Easybeats. One of their primary songwriters
was originally from a non-English speaking country (Holland), but
he was writing with a native speaker of the language, so there was
no excuse for lines like these:
"Now the people remember me as being a genius, but compare their
clamoring to hear what I will say/It's so funny they carry me away."
(from "The Music Goes 'Round My Head")
I could go on forever listing grammatical quirks in The Easybeats'
songs, but in a sense, those quriks make their material distinctive.
And then there's one songwriting device I simply cannot stand:
switching from second person to third person (or vice versa) when
you're talking about the same individual! Many good songs have been
hurt by this, especially Del Shannon's "Runaway," and Gene
Pitney's "She's A Heartbreaker" (which was written by Swamp Dogg and
Charlie Foxx).
If I think of more examples, I'll bring them up.
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:58:17 -0000
From: Julio Nino
Subject: The Fleetwoods
Hi Everybody,
Bill Craig asked:
> Were The Fleetwoods ever on Dolphin?...
Bill,
Yes, at first the Fleedwoods were on Dolphin Records, but it wasn't
the same as John Dolphin's '50s label. Then their label changed its
name to Dolton. "Come Softly To Me" exists on both labels.
Julio Nino
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:21:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin
Subject: Re: Jerry Yester
Alan Zweig said:
> "Farewell Aldebaran", a very good record. Recently
> played a bit by Bob Brainen on WFMU, and searchable.
A truly great psych-folk masterpiece, and one of the
greatest LPs never made available on CD (as yet).
Evidently there's some copyright problems and/or bad
blood between the folks at Zappa's Straight label and
the (demi)gods at WEA.
Still 'n' such...if anyone has this and can play
"St. Nicholas Hall" to musica, I for one would be
4ever gr8ful.
kjm in la
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 21:21:35 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Orpheus
C Ponti wrote:
> As rabid a fan as I am, their version is awful and self-indulgent.
Tom wrote:
> I really have to disagree with your comments regarding Orpheus'
> outstanding cover of "Walk Away Renee". I just listened to it
> again and am as captivated as I was when I first heard it.
Well, I must say I'm getting a load of information on Orpheus's "Walk
Away Renee"! I have a feeling I would like it...and these competing
descriptions have me even more curious to hear their version.
Regarding the Left Banke's original, I have to say it is one of my
all-time favorite songs-love the strings, love Steve Martin's vocals,
this is one of the songs that got me into music as a boy. To me it's
musical perfection. I think the only cover version I can remember
hearing is the Four Top's version from '67 or '68 - I have the 45 and
I think that Levi Stubbs gives the song a more mature feel that also
suits it very well. But the Left Banke's original is definitive, in
my opinion.
Art Longmire
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:51:50 EST
From: David Bell
Subject: Monty Babson
I was delighted to read the name Monty Babson, as it has given
me the chance to bring up the name Sue Holliday aka Susan Singer
again. Any chance to do so and I will.
Monty was Su's recording manager and produced a great album for
her in the Lansdowne Series on the British Columbia label. It's
a collection of 10 jazz songs and is just superb.
Songs like Take the A Train, Happy Talk, Don't Get Around Much
Anymore and Dark Streets On Sunday are featured.
I think I must be the only Susan Singer / Su Holliday fan in the
world and there has never been a whisper of a release on CD of
any of her material. One day.....
David.
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:01:50 -0000
From: Clay S.
Subject: Re: Bad rhymes/bad grammar
I wrote:
> I been a rambler and a gambler
> And I guess I always will"
> -- "Heard It in a Love Song," Marshall Tucker Band
> ("will" what? There's no antecedent for this verb!)
Mike McKay :
> I realized upon further reflection (and checking a lyric site
> to confirm it) that it's actually even worse than this. The
> complete couplet is:
> "Always something greener on the other side of that hill
> I was born a wrangler and a rambler and I guess I always will"
> So there isn't even a "been" to play off of!
Now it makes sense!
"I was born a wrangler and a rambler and I guess I always will"
(wrangle and ramble)
Clay S.
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:56:31 -0000
From: David A Young
Subject: Christmas with Dusty (and Rod)
First, for context, a quick recap of information previously shared
here: Rod McKuen had Dusty Springfield as his guest on a TV special
entitled "Christmas in New England". Their duet of "Baby, It's Cold
Outside" from the show was issued on his Laserlight label on a CD
called "Christmas in London"; when I attempted to order the disc from
his Web site, I found that it wasn't available, but that a VHS video
of the special was, so I ordered that instead. Having viewed it now a
couple of times, I thought list members might be interested in a
brief report on the video, so here's my mini-review:
The other guests are the St. Paul's Boys Choir at Cambridge. Given
that the show was filmed in 1978 and stars Rod McKuen, it probably
goes without saying that it's hokey as hell, with our girl Dusty
doing her damndest to rise above the cheesy surroundings, She makes
her entrance about 2.5 minutes into the show, joining Rod for a
forgettable medley of traditional Christmas carols.
They next duet on what I'm guessing to be a McKuen original,
called "So My Sheep May Safely Graze". (The blink-and-you'll-miss-
them end credits don't include information about any of the songs.)
This is followed by the aforementioned "Baby, It's Cold Outside",
and both performances are respectable.
Where Dusty truly shines is the segment in which she sings another
song I'd not heard before. It's called "Simple Gifts", but has
nothing in common with the Shaker hymn by the same name; again, I
presume it's an R McK composition. The song and the sentiments it
conveys are really quite lovely, but, inexplicably, Rod interrupts
La Springfield with some banter after the penultimate phrase. Clearly
displeased, she scolds, "Don't ruin this!" before finishing the song.
Damn shame that.
Her other solo spotlight consists of her quite self-consciously
lip-synching to the title song from her then-current album "Living
Without Your Love" while disco-ing down alone on the cramped and
corny set. Poor dear.
She's back on once more to join Rod (and, this time, the boychoir) on
another round of seasonal chestnuts, but as before, her contribution
is negligible. Still, I've regretted other $10 purchases much more
than this one and find it easy to enjoy as a period piece. If not for
McKuen's unwelcome interjection toward the end of the one song, it'd
be easy to argue that it justified the purchase price of the video.
It certainly leaves me wishing that a studio version of the tune
(with Mr McKuen nowhere near the studio) existed.
Now you know.
David
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:04:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: The Ventures
John Berg wrote:
> I was sorry I had disdained them back in the
> mid-to-late '60s as "square".
And they served as an important link in rock and roll by
releasing their instructional records, "Ventures Play
Guitar". A lot of name musicians, at least in the US,
have sited those records as starting points for their
careers. It would be nice to see some of the stars of
today following in that tradition.
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:57:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: "The Long Black Veil"
Glad to see somebody else thought this damn tune ["The Long
Black Veil"] was a little far-fetched. Maybe somebody should
write a sequel where the best friend tops the singer and gets
hung instead.
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:51:11 -0600
From: Nick Archer
Subject: Tupper Saussy photo in photo section
Tupper Saussy was in Nashville from California last Friday
night to open an exhibit of his paintings. I posted a photo
in the photo section. Left to right, it's my friend Skip
Woolwine, Tupper Saussy, and John "Buck" Wilkins, lead singer
of Ronnie & the Daytonas, and writer of "Little GTO".
Nick Archer
Nashville TN
Check out Nashville's classic radio station SM95 on the web at http://www.live365.com/stations/nikarcher
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:34:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Spector / Spoonful connection
Hey, I knew, but then the Spoons were my favorite band. I seem
to recall something about Phil sitting in on piano at the gig.
In 1967 I made my first trip to the Village to see my aunt's
new place there. Visited the Night Owl which was still a club
at that time. Hung around all day and went to see the show that
night. While I'm watching it who should come in, but all, but
one of the Turtles ('cept Howard). They were riding high at the
time with some tune by That Alan Gordon.
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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:10:14 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Goodbye Girl
Stuart Miller wrote:
> The discussion around "Goodbye Girl" was, was Frankie Valli
> singing to his daughter or to his girlfriend? As I recall,
> the general consensus at the time was that he was "speaking"
> to his daughter but none of us could really be sure. The closing
> line, "Daddy's gone" didn't help either.
Stuart,
Jeez, I always thought he was singing to his girlfriend. It never
even occurred to me that he was singing to his daughter. The use
of terms such as "little girl" was not uncommon to refer to one's
girlfriend in '60s pop music, nor was the use of the term "daddy"
to refer to one's boyfriend. And I figured the reason it was on
the flip of "Saturday's Father" is that they needed a B-side and
that track was sitting around on an LP--furthermore, Bob Crewe
co-wrote it, and it seems like that was enough to get a 4 Seasons
song released on a 45.
Of course, the line, "All you life you've had to pay for my
mistakes" does imply that it is indeed his daughter that
Frankie Valli is singing to. And in that context, it eerily
foreshadows a line from "A New Beginning": "Does the baby cry
for all my sinning?"
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 01:02:16 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: cleaned up lyrics
Paul Bryant:
> One night of sin is what I'm now paying for.
> and for the pop single version that was cleaned up:
> One night with you is what I'm now praying for.
A similar example of lyric de-cleansing comes from S'pop fave,
Ellie Greenwich, on "I'll Never Need More Than This".
The highly-charged Tina Turner sings:
Oh I love what you do to me
Thrills of love are going through me
Whereas cha cha charming Ellie is more explicit:
Oh I love the way you do me
Thrills of love are going through me
....my mother was *not* pleased :-)
Phil
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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:49:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Jones
Subject: Re: The two Dolphin labels
The Dolphin Records label that released "Come Softly to Me" by the
Fleetwoods is the same label that became Dolton - John Dolphin had
nothing to do with it. Dolphin Records was founded by one Bob Reisdorff
in Washington state; after he released "Come Softly to Me," he learned
there was already a Dolphin label (maybe John Dolphin was involved in
THAT one?), so he changed his label's name to Dolton after "CSTM" ran
its course.
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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 05:58:53 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Re: Tupper Saussy photo in photo section
Nick Archer:
> Tupper Saussy was in Nashville from California last Friday
> night to open an exhibit of his paintings. I posted a photo
> in the photo section. Left to right, it's my friend Skip
> Woolwine, Tupper Saussy, and John "Buck" Wilkins, lead singer
> of Ronnie & the Daytonas, and writer of "Little GTO".
Thanks for posting that, Nick. I wonder if drummer Jerry Carrigan
was there (as the common link between Ronny & The Daytonas and the
Neon Philharmonic).
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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