Spectropop - Digest Number 1203

• From: Spectropop Group
• Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003

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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. The Crystals - All Grown Up - which version is which?
           From: Vlaovic B 
      2. Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
           From: Mike McKay 
      3. Challenging the Shadows
           From: Steve Harvey 
      4. Bayou, DC.
           From: Kevin Kern 
      5. Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson
           From: Mike McKay 
      6. Re: Re: Jerry Fuller/Soul'd Out
           From: Austin Roberts 
      7. Re: Lafayettes
           From: Austin Roberts 
      8. Re: The Shadows And Surf
           From: Austin Roberts 
      9. Re: Mentally "different" artists/all time best rhyme
           From: Paul Bryant 
     10. Stereo 45s/Brian Wilson
           From: Bill Craig 
     11. Re: Lyrical gems
           From: Mike Rashkow 
     12. Re: Lafayettes
           From: Austin Roberts 
     13. Re: "Walk Aawy Renee"
           From: Sean Anglum 
     14. Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson
           From: Austin Roberts 
     15. Re. Brian Wilson's influence
           From: Paul Bryant 
     16. Re: Dolphin/Dolton/Dwayne Blackwell
           From: Austin Roberts 


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Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:53:42 -0500
   From: Vlaovic B 
Subject: The Crystals - All Grown Up - which version is which?

I finally found a copy of the Crystals greatest hits to complement 
the 4 CD 'Back to Mono' Set.  Question though...which version of 
'All Grown Up' was released as a single?  Either the looser, party-
styled version on the single CD or the tighter, almost sonic version 
on the box set?

My preference is the sonic version, but in either case it didn't do very 
well as a single, did it...?



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Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:53:58 EST
   From: Mike McKay 
Subject: Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen

I wrote:

> A propros of the discussion that spawned this query, I recall
> from reading the book that the Cherry People album was one of
> those that was completely dominated by its producer. Cherry People
> were in fact a very hard-rockin' punk aggregation, probably second
> in popularity only to The Hangmen in D.C. But the album's producer
> used studio musicians and made them do lightweight pop along the
> lines of "And Suddenly." They were quite disgusted with the whole
> thing and disavowed it.

Mark T. replied:
 
> It never ceases to amaze me the great lengths that groups would go
> to to try to avoid any possibility of success. I think the Cherry
> People recordings are excellent and that was actually one of my first
> pleasant surprise CDs that I had bought without ever hearing any of
> the music. So they really were angry that they were made to put out a
> commercial sounding record that had a chance rather than some garagey
> crap that they wanted to record.

Mark, if you don't mind me asking, are you a musician? I say this because 
your entire post seems predicated on the notion that commercial "success" 
is the unquestioned be-all and end-all of every musician. And that by 
extension, as a musician it shouldn't really matter what music you play 
or whatever else you have to do, as long as you "make it."

As a musician and songwriter myself, I can only tell you that it would be 
my personal version of the ninth circle of Hell to "make it" playing music 
that I hated playing -- or for that matter, even to have to make a living 
that way. I can think of no shorter route to insanity for me than to have 
music making become a "job" or a chore -- rather than a passion I look 
forward to every time I strap on my guitar and step up to a microphone. 
If the former were my true desire, I'd sign on for a Holiday Inn lounge 
band tomorrow, and before too long I would have succeeded in making myself 
hate music. Hooray!

What I'm trying in my rather heavy-handed manner to say is that I 
completely understand Cherry People's view. If you like their album (I have 
it but haven't listened in a long time), that's great -- but your kudos 
should obviously go to the producer and not to the band. And I think they 
would be fine with that.

Mike (who happens to like "garagey crap" as well as soft pop!)





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Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:03:36 -0800 (PST)
   From: Steve Harvey 
Subject: Challenging the Shadows

Dave Coyle wrote:

> On the other hand, the Shadows did occasionally have a
> bit of influence on US surf acts, even if their
> records didn't actually get their due over here. There
> are several Shadows covers on LPs by the Challengers,
> notably "The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt" and "Man
> Of Mystery." So I think the Challengers at least might
> have dug the Shadows.


Dave, 
     
You're right about the Challengers and the Shadows connection. 
Their "On The Move" LP (now on CD) had enough Shadow covers to 
qualify as a tribute LP: "Foot Tapper", "The Breeze & I", 
"Dance On", "Apache" and "Guitar Tango".  However, I don't see 
either "The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt" and "Man Of Mystery" 
on this particular LP. 




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Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:31:53 -0500
   From: Kevin Kern 
Subject: Bayou, DC.

Austin Roberts asked:

> Does anybody know the name of the group in DC that played as
> house band at the Bayou (and I think may have owned the club
> with their manager?

Hello Austin, could this have been Crank? The Bayou
was always advertising Grin and Crank together back in 
the late 60s. (I remember a slightly older girl sneaking
me into the Bayou one night back then: the club got its
revenge by serving me watered drinks!)

Cheers,
Kevin
At the shore



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Message: 5
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:58:39 EST
   From: Mike McKay 
Subject: Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson

Dave Mirich wrote:

> What always tickles me is when a young punker or rock/hip-hop 
> type mentions in interview how much BW has influenced him/her. 

Just as it tickled me to read long ago of what a big fan Jim 
Morrison was of Brian Wilson. Talk about support from a quarter 
you'd least expect!

Mike




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Message: 6
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:48:41 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: Re: Jerry Fuller/Soul'd Out

James Holvay wrote:

> ....(Soul'd Out) was originally called The Red Velvet. That 
> was the first club my group (The Mob) played in LA, when Capitol 
> flew us out to record in '66.

Just to keep this string going, I was in a group called the 
Arkade on Dunhill and we released Carole King's "Where You Lead" 
at the same time you guys did; I think we helped cancel each other 
out. Bummer. I think I'm right about that.
  
Take care,  

Austin Roberts



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Message: 7
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:35:38 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: Lafayettes

Dave Heasman wrote:

> A wonderful record, b/w "Nobody But You", released on RCA about 
> 1962, very influential on UK bands, particularly Them. I heard 
> it at the time on French radio, and bought it used when reissued 
> about '77/'78.  This time it had a picture sleeve of the 3 
> Lafayettes.

Thanks Dave, I was hoping someone else had heard of them.  I like 
the record too.  I had written yesterday that I found out that the 
record only made it to #87 on Billboard, but I thought it was a much 
better record than that, though the lyric was a bit different.
  
Best,  

Austin



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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:56:12 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: The Shadows And Surf

Didn't the Shadows back Cliff Richard on a bunch of things, 
besides being one of the best instrumental groups ever?
  
Austin R.





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Message: 9
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:55:28 -0800 (PST)
   From: Paul Bryant 
Subject: Re: Mentally "different" artists/all time best rhyme

Paul Bryant:

> On "An Evening With Wild Man Fisher" he sings
> "Dream Girl" which includes.....
> "Her eyes are brown, her hair is blonde
> And everything about her's strong"

Country Paul replied:

> To me, picking on Wild Man Fischer isn't quite fair,
> as he is "delicately balanced" mentally.

I would like to remove the impression that I was in
any way holding WMF up to ridicule - I was pointing
out his "Dream Girl Explanation," the monologue which
follows the song, wherein he tells us of the trouble
he had pitching the song - the men in suits had a
great deal of trouble with the rhyme strong/blonde.
Me, I have no such trouble.
   
My all time favourite rhyme in popular music (since
you asked!) is that wonderful old chestnut,

Your looks are laughable
Unphotographable

pb




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Message: 10
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:00:54 -0000
   From: Bill Craig 
Subject: Stereo 45s/Brian Wilson

I'm still on my fun facts about forty-fives kick.
What was the first single released in stereo?

I'm thinking "Touch Me" by the Doors, or possibly "Alone Again 
Or" by Love.

I don't know why it would have been something on Electra, but 
that is what I seem to remember. I could easily be wrong.

On the subject of Brian Wilson: '60s genius:

I must admit that I never "got" the Beach Boys during their heyday 
in the sixties. It took me till the late '70s/early '80s to 
recognise the beauty and innovation of stuff like "The Warmth Of 
The Sun", "Don't Worry Baby" and on, and on...

Bill Craig




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Message: 11
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:56:44 EST
   From: Mike Rashkow 
Subject: Re: Lyrical gems

I'll toss this hat in the ring:

I like the looks of you,
Your looks are pure deluxe, 
Looks like I like the likes of you.

Rashkovsky



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Message: 12
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:06:45 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: Lafayettes

Mike Dugo:

> Sorry, Austin - I don't have any info on The Lafayettes.
> If anybody on the list can chime in - please do!

Mike,

It's interesting to me that folks on this site, even when they 
don't know something, they scope it out to help each other out.
    
Austin R



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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:59:54 -0700
   From: Sean Anglum 
Subject: Re: "Walk Aawy Renee"

Richard Williams wrote:

> "Walk Away Renee" is one of the few great songs, I think, to 
> exist in three outstandingly and completely different versions 
> -- by the Left Banke, Four Tops and Rickie Lee Jones. Not just 
> covers, complete revisions of equal artistic merit. Any more?

I know that Southside Johnny charted with a version of this song in 
1986. But a very cool version that I've recently been enjoying is by 
Eric Carmen, to be found on his last CD/album "I Was Born to Love You." 
Fairly faithful rendition of the Left Banke cut, Raspberries and Carmen 
were quite influenced by LB, according to the Carmen liner notes.

Those with a particularly keen interest in this cut should search out 
the Japanese release of this CD (titled "Winter Dreams" in Japan, on 
Pioneer). This Japanese only CD also includes a great version of 
"Caroline, No" .....also faithfully rendered, but with a good dose of 
Carmen thrown in. Thought you'd all want to know.

I've certainly enjoyed lurking these past few weeks....great posts and 
information galore. I love this site!

Note to Dave Mirich:
Hi Dave, hope all is well. Thanks for the great words on Brian!! Been 
recording at all? See you at a record show sometime.

-Sean Anglum




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Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:04:47 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson

Dave Mirich wrote:

> ......It would be hard to imagine the course of music history 
> since the '60s without the talents of Brian Wilson.  Even when a 
> musician doesn't try to copy him, there is a debt of gratitude 
> (and awe) acknowledged by so many on their music. I can only
> imagine the music we have listened to in the time since
> the '60s would be diminished without Brian's genius and legacy.

Dave,
  
I agree wholeheartedly with the value and talent of Brian Wilson.  His 
recods are unforgettable and "Pet Sounds" has the neatest arrangements 
vocally and instrumentally I've ever heard; and look when it was done.  
I believe "Good Vibrations" was supposed to be on "Pet Sounds" but just 
released as a single.  Also a fabulous record.  He was like Spector as 
far as the sounds he heard in his head and then translated to tape (no 
CDs or digital back then).
   
Austin R.






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Message: 15
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:16:53 -0800 (PST)
   From: Paul Bryant 
Subject: Re. Brian Wilson's influence

Dave Mirich wrote:

> It is rare that modern musicians (and older ones too) don't 
> acknowledge Brian Wilson's influence, in interview or tribute.  
> Even Hetfield of Metallica has "Pet Sounds" on his list of 10 
> all-time favorite LPs (it recently was rated by 350 music experts 
> as the #2 greatest LP of all time by Rolling Stone).  

Certainly Brian gets namechecked everywhere, & "Pet Sounds" will quite 
rightly forever be No 1 or No 2 in critics' polls. But what exactly do 
we mean by influence?  I think it's what follows when someone creates 
a musical idiom of such power that their ideas come to seem almost 
inevitable. The worst example of influence is simple plagiarism - for 
instance, Terry Stafford's big hit "Suspicion" or Marmalade's No 1
"Ob-la-di".  Those two just replicate the styles of the originals. The 
best examples of influence are less obvious - Dylan's introduction of 
folk elements into pop music; or, the Beatles' model of the self-contained 
singer-songwriting group of three guitars & drums, which replaced the 
previous Brill/Motown/Spector ways of creating pop music (a quick nod to 
Buddy Holly & Chuck Berry in this respect, but they never had permanent 
groups.) And I can't turn on the radio without hearing James Brown's
influence all over the charts.
   
So now then - in what way is Brian Wilson influential? No one has been 
able to follow what he did, it remains unique. There is nothing like "Pet 
Sounds" and nothing remotely like "Smile." There has never been a vocal 
group as extraordinary as the Beach Boys, no one has come close.  So Brian 
Wilson might be an inspiration to many, but I'm sceptical about his
actual influence. I would of course be happy to be convinced otherwise.

pb




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Message: 16
   Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:26:07 EST
   From: Austin Roberts 
Subject: Re: Dolphin/Dolton/Dwayne Blackwell

Country Paul passed on info re. Dolton:

> .........This duplication of names would probably not have been 
> discovered for some time had not their very first single release, 
> "Come Softly to Me" by the Fleetwoods, been a huge international 
> hit. Because of the name change, and the ultimate need for better 
> distribution, the first single was issued as Dolphin 1, then
> Dolton 1, then as Liberty 55188. Their first 45 was also issued as 
> a stereo single in 1959, although the stereo version contained bongo 
> overdubs."

Good info Paul. Dwayne Blackwell at 18 wrote "Mr. Blue" for the Fleetwoods.  
To show how a good writer can write in different venues, he also wrote 
"Friends In Low Places" for Garth Brooks.  He's also a very humble guy.
    
Austin Roberts




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