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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 32 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: The Shadows
From: Mikey
2. Re: Stereo 45s
From: Mikey
3. Re: The Shadows
From: Paul Bryant
4. Re: Lafayettes
From: Dave Heasman
5. Re: clunkers / 96 Tears / uptight & Judy Clay / Michael Brown
From: Phil Milstein
6. Re: Ketty Lester
From: Phil Milstein
7. Re: Brian's influence / Music To Watch Girls By
From: Phil Milstein
8. Re: Lafayettes
From: Peter Lerner
9. Re: Brian Wilson
From: Dave Heasman
10. Re: Bayou, DC.
From: Austin Roberts
11. Brian Wilson
From: Artie Wayne
12. Volvo commercial
From: Tony Waitekus
13. Re: Jerry Fuller / Young Girl
From: Glenn
14. Re: Stereo 45s
From: Fred Clemens
15. Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson
From: steveo
16. Hollywood
From: steveo
17. Dick St. John - R.I.P.
From: Gary
18. Re: Brian Wilson influence
From: Peter Kearns
19. First Beatles / 60s resurgence?? Klaatu!
From: Peter Kearns
20. Re: Ketty Lester
From: JD Doyle
21. Re: Jimmie Cross / Let's Live For Today
From: Phil Milstein
22. Re: Grass Roots on Musica
From: Glenn
23. Re: Brian Wilson Influence
From: pnreum
24. Re: First Beatles / 60s resurgence?? Klaatu!
From: Mark Frumento
25. Re: Ketty Lester
From: Chelsea
26. Re: Stereo 45s
From: Steveo
27. Re: Beatles covers (Godfrey Daniel - & Big Daddy)
From: Estufarian
28. Musica Files
From: S.J. Dibai
29. Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
From: Clark Besch
30. Re: Troggs' Good Vibrations / Lafayettes / jailbait rock
From: Phil Milstein
31. Re: "Uptight"
From: James Botticelli
32. Re: The Mob/"Where You Lead"
From: James Holvay
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:31:07 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: The Shadows
Yes, Austin, The Shadows were Cliff's backing band for many years.
But of course they each had hits on their own. The Shads are doing
a "Final Tour" as we speak. They have all said that this is it,
they will never play together after this. I wish they were coming
to the USA, I would go see them for sure.
Mikey
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:35:56 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s
> What was the first single released in stereo?
>
> I'm thinking "Touch Me" by the Doors, or possibly "Alone Again
> Or" by Love.
Not even close...................1959......Paul Anka "Lonely Boy".
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:44:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: The Shadows
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Didn't the Shadows back Cliff Richard on a bunch of things,
> besides being one of the best instrumental groups ever?
Yes - they were his official backing group on all the early rock
& roll hits like It'll Be me and Move It. Started out as The
Drifters, then realised there was an American Drifters and
changed to the Shadows (I think in 59). Major hits with Cliff
like Summer Holiday and Bachelor Boy (was there ever a more
prescient song sung by its composer?). They they went their own
ways but came together occasionally to crank out more 60s hits
like On the Beach or In The Country.
The American charts in the 60s always appreciated a neat
instrumental but the Shads never meant a light there, not even
with great big smashes like Wonderful Land, a grand tune if ever
there was one. I wonder why?
pb
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:26:47 -0000
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: Lafayettes
Austin Roberts on the Lafayettes' "Life's Too Short":
> I remember it had a quirky lyric that started with:
> Well life's too short
> And you're too sweet
> Every day of your life child
> You're gonna spend with me
> (now get this)
> We gonna up and get married
> Before my hair turns gray
> I need you for my baby -
> ........and another line I can't remember
have you heard about Annie
She's really tough
And what about Sally
She's cool enough
Oh Oh Oh Life's Too Short
3 more lines then
I I keep tellin' you
I I keep tellin' you
I I keep tellin' you
AAAAAAAAAAI......keep a tellin' you baby ..
a fantastic guttural croak. All to a backing that's very much
like Del Shannon's "Runaway". I must get it from the loft.
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:10:37 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: clunkers / 96 Tears / uptight & Judy Clay / Michael Brown
Country Paul wrote all:
> To me, picking on Wild Man Fischer isn't quite fair, as he is
> "delicately balanced" mentally. That said, sometimes the imagery
> of the mentally "different" is outstanding. Rhyming or not, I
> think this is pretty cool. Of course, the "song" is open to debate
> Would the Brian Wilson lyrics David Mirich cites (his "Love You"
> lyrics) also count as mentally precarious?
Well-put, Paul, and citing mid-'70s BW as a parallel for lyrics by
psychologically disordered writers is an apt one, made especially
stark by contrast with Brian's earlier lyrics (and granting that he
wasn't always that comfortable as a lyricist to begin with). If we
are to continue enumerating some of our "favorite" clinkers, it
therefore might be more challenging to try to locate them with the
canons of those writers who were more consistently adept at the craft.
I doubt you'd find too many in Ira Gershwin or Johnny Mercer, for
instance; within '60s pop music, did Hal David leave behind any
couplets that went bump in the night?
> And from another mentally "different" person, Skip Spence, a great
> song title from the "Oar" album/CD: "Lawrence of Euphoria." Also
> from the same album (I forget which song) comes these delicious but
> totally un-PC lines, even for the times: "I will stay by your side
> by the day, You'll stay underneath me at night."
A similar one:
"And when the sun comes up, you'll be on top,
And I'll be right down there, looking up."
A line that rings especially graphic when sung by a woman, Aretha for
instance.
> Stevie and another artist, Judy Clay ("I'm Uptight," Lavette, early
> '60s) both use it as a positive term. (In Judy's ballad, she's
> uptight with her guy and feelin' good.) The term obviously reversed
> its meaning shortly thereafter.
Based on all the citations of "uptight" we've seen here in recent weeks,
I wonder if the term didn't -- for a little while, at least -- maintain
its opposite meanings simultaneously, based perhaps on geographic
location. Then when the "negative" meaning took root and spread, it
quickly displaced all use (and, it seems, nearly all memory) of the
"positive" one.
"Uptight" appears to be a fairly recent word altogether, as opposed to
a longstanding word that came to take on entirely new meaning (c.f.
current use of "random" among kids). What I find especially interesting
is the fact of such a new word acquiring opposing meanings nearly at
its birth.
By the way Billy Vera has a nice little tribute to Judy Clay, who died
a couple of years ago, on his website, http://www.billyvera.com.
> My two cents: agreed, and the follow-up, "Pretty Ballerina," is even
> more fey, more intricate a composition and more beautiful. Please
> forgive that I never "got" either the Four Tops or the Orpheus
> versions.
According to legend, Brown wrote "Renee" and "Ballerina" on the same
day (as well as a third masterpiece -- "Desiree," was it? "She May Call
..."?). If this is even close to the truth, it almost defies belief.
--Phil M.
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:06:48 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Ketty Lester
Mick Patrick wrote:
> I've posted one other to musica: "I'll Be Looking Back" by
> Ketty Lester, released on Tower 166 in 1965. Take a listen,
> it's great.
I haven't had a chance to listen to this yet, but the posting
causes me to ask if anyone has a clue as to why Ketty Lester
didn't manage to last at a high level of commercial success. I
don't know how long she'd been working before hitting upon "Love
Letters," but at least at that moment she seemed ideally
positioned for long-term stardom: she had the talent, the looks,
and was riding a timeless recording that should have been the
cornerstone of a great career, rather than the only thing the
larger public will ever know her for.
While awaiting some thoughts on this mystery, I look forward to
hearing "I'll Be Looking Back."
--Phil M.
P.S. Speaking of "timeless," I was watching one of those oldies
infomercials the other night when I heard this giddy oxymoron:
"... these timeless classics that seem to define their era."
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:36:46 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Brian's influence / Music To Watch Girls By
Dave Mirich wrote:
> It would be hard to imagine the course of music history since the
> '60s without the talents of Brian Wilson. Even when a musician
> doesn't try to copy him, there is a debt of gratitude (and awe)
> acknowledged by so many on their music. I can only imagine the
> music we have listened to in the time since the '60s would be
> diminished without Brian's genius and legacy.
Paul Bryant wrote:
> So now then - in what way is Brian Wilson influential? No one has
> been able to follow what he did, it remains unique. There is nothing
> like "Pet Sounds" and nothing remotely like "Smile." There has never
> been a vocal group as extraordinary as the Beach Boys, no one has
> come close. So Brian Wilson might be an inspiration to many, but
> I'm sceptical about his actual influence. I would of course be happy
> to be convinced otherwise.
I'm with David on this one. There are some masterworks, in music as in
all artforms, that grow to become part of the very fabric of that
form's language, affecting subsequent works in ways that are often not
readily apparent, but without which those works would have been
fundamentally different than they were. Clearly, in the pop-rock idiom,
"Pet Sounds," as well as The Beach Boys' ouevre in general, is one of
those works.
Jules Normington wrote:
> ...and how can you go past "Music To Watch Girls By" for lyrics so
> evocative, so damn clever, and so damn simple (just how good is that
> first line)..the scene is set so well...you just wanna be there....
> piazza in Italy...scooters...mini-skirts...boys sitting 'n' leaning
> on scooters...
Wowza. Thanks for this transcription, Jules: proof positive that song
lyrics are the ideal forum for elevating seemingly mundane thoughts and
emotions to the level of the classics. I'm embarrassed to ask, who is
responsible for this brilliant work?
> And, not that we were discussing songwords of great romantic beauty,
> but are there any more romantic lyrics than those of Vic Damone's
> "On The Street Where You Live"...??!!
Originally from "My Fair Lady," of course. Lyrics by Frank Loesser, if
memory serves; no clue as to which singer debuted it.
--Phil M.
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:39:58 -0000
From: Peter Lerner
Subject: Re: Lafayettes
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Hey Mike, Do you know anything about a 60's group called the
> Lafayettes, who had a small hit with a song called Life's Too
> Short?
Well I'm not Mike, but I have a 45 of the Lafayettes featuring
Frank Bonarrigo, produced by Hugo and Luigi, of "Caravan of Lonely
Men" written by Jeff Barry and one Derek Pretlow. It's on RCA Victor
8082. I remember it was released here in the UK and had a few radio
plays. Bit like a sort of follow up to "Chain gang".
Peter
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:46:47 -0000
From: Dave Heasman
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson
Bill Craig:
> On the subject of Brian Wilson: '60s genius: I must admit that I
> never "got" the Beach Boys during their heyday in the sixties. It
> took me till the late '70s/early '80s to recognise the beauty and
> innovation of stuff like "The Warmth Of The Sun", "Don't Worry Baby"
> and on, and on...
I didn't really "get" them at the time, either. The only record I
bought of theirs was "Fun Fun Fun". Then Richard Williams wrote 2
pages in the Melody Maker, laying down just what was so good about
their albums, so it was straight down the library to check them all
out. He was right; he invariably is. Best pair of ears in England now
Roger Scott & Kenny Everett are gone.
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:05:46 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Bayou, DC.
Hey Kevin, Sorry about those sneaky drinks. No it wasn't them;
it was more mid sixties I'm pretty sure. Thanks for answering.
I'll let you know if I find out.
Best, Austin
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:21:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: Brian Wilson
When I was running Irving/Almo [A+M records publiishing arm] in
1974.........Van Dyke Parks called me to congratulate me on my new
position. He put me on the phone with Brian Wilson [who I had never
met].........who said he liked Olivia Newton Johns cover of "God Only
Knows", which I got her to record on my first day at the company!!
Needless to say I was thrilled to talk to one of my idols........I
told him an idea I had to update one of his old songs......that
included changing one of the most recognizable lines in musical
history!!! As I talk/sang my idea into the phone.......I could hear
laughing on the other end.....and an,"Okay........sure...try it!!
A few weeks later I got my freind Larry Page to record and release it
with the Troggs......it started......."I love the summer clothes you
almost wear........and how the sunlight plays upon your hair......"
regards, Artie Wayne
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:05:28 -0800
From: Tony Waitekus
Subject: Volvo commercial
Who can tell me the title and artist of the music being used on
the holiday Volvo commercial on TV? I remember hearing it on
the radio over the years, but don't know what it is.
Tony Waitekus
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:34:22 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Jerry Fuller / Young Girl
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Jerry Fuller, the great writer and producer,was also a good
> singer and loved Pucket's voice because he could write the
> kind of songs that he (Jerry) liked to sing (big ballads),
> consequently, many great records, most of which Jerry wrote
> and produced.
>Man do I ever agree with you about Jerry Fuller's formula.
>I think he also produced and may have written Al Wilson's #1
>"Show And Tell," which to me, had a Puckett flavor to it.
Hi Austin... Yes, Fuller also wrote "Show and Tell", as well as
the follow-up "Touch and Go", and which, given his penchant for
formulas, I'm surprised he didn't follow-up with another song with
a title something like "Rinse and Repeat".
But I'm a big Fuller fan, and it's nice to see him getting some
kudos here, especially after the patently unfair blasting his song
"Young Girl" took here a little while back, which I'd like to
address:
Jules Normington wrote:
> Speaking alternately, of 'bad' song lyrics, Gary Puckett and the
> Union Gap's "Young Girl" takes the prize for the most non-PC,
> morally suspect or perhaps just plain naïve lyrics of all, si?...
> well of any HIT single, that is."
First of all Jules, any application of the term "PC" to anything
before the concept of "political correctness" came into being is
simply absurd. If you do this, you will find tons of things, as
well as people, that were wildy, outrageously politically incorrect
in our long history. It may be hard to remember a time before we
lived in a "PC" world, but we did, for centuries.
As far as "morally suspect", I was going to write a long essay about
the history of pop songs about grown men with underage girls, many
of which were major hits, but I'll keep it short. Even the writer of
some of the most innocent songs in the history of pop, John
Sebastian, had a "Younger Girl... rollin' cross [his] mind", and his
implication is that society is wrong for its standards, not HIM, and
morals don't even enter the equation: "In a few more years they'd say
we're right for each other... But why?/If I wait I'll just die".
As for "Young Girl" being the "MOST" morally suspect "of all" -- not
even close. The spectrum of songs about girls that are legally too
young ranges from sheer leering lust to legal-minded self-protection
to romantic fantasy, and in this range "Young Girl" falls somewhere
in the middle. In fact, the song's narrator is beyond moral reproach
since the girl lied to him about her age, and he's doing the only
thing he can, which is telling her to "Get out of here". And if you
think Fuller himself is "morally suspect" for writing this story
song, you'd have to convince me that never in history has an underage
girl pretended to be older for the purpose of attracting the
attentions of an older man - both romantic and physical. A timeless
story and one well worth telling in a pop song. As it has been many
other times.
A brief listing of major hits concerning "jailbait":
1) "Into the Night" - Benny Mardones "She's just sixteen years
old/Leave her alone they say"
2) "Don't Stand So Close to Me" - The Police
3) "Does Your Mother Know" - ABBA
4) "Sweet and Innocent" - Donny Osmond
5) "Hot Child in the City" - Nick Gilder
6) "Young Girl" - The Union Gap featuring Gary Puckett
7) "Jam Up Jelly Tight" - Tommy Roe (Perhaps not fair to include
this, since the song is written in code subject to multiple
interpretations, but most critics, and many fans, THINK they know
what this song is about. One critic even classified it
as "pedophilia".)
I'm sure members of this group can think of more, and I've only
listed major hits on the topic. There are many more minor hits, and
plenty of notable album tracks, including our beloved Jim
Croce's "Five Short Minutes", about a rock star who gets physical
with an underage groupie, and unlike in any of the other songs, he
is CAUGHT: "The judge and the jury/They sat me in a room/They said
that robbin' the cradle/Is worse than robbin' a tomb". And so his
"Five short minutes of love" cost him "Twenty long years in jail".
Now, I should mention that "Young Girl" is the first record I ever
bought, my personal introduction to the joys of pop-rock music, and
thus I am immensely defensive of it. But even without the
defensiveness, it's not a "bad" lyric - in fact it's an intriguing
story song, honestly told, expressing a realistic range of emotions
from anger to love to disappointment to indignation to frustration
to confusion, finally even admitting "I'm afraid we'll go too far."
The one thing that ALL these songs have in common is the lack of any
consideration of morals, except in some cases to indicate that
society's moral (and legal) standards are simply wrong: that true
love overrides something as arbitrary as a birth year. I'm not
agreeing or disagreeing with this; I'm simply stating the way the
issue is predominantly addressed in pop music.
By the way, I don't count "Claire" by Gilbert O' Sullivan in this
classification any more than I count "Save Your Kisses For Me"
("even though you're only three") by Brotherhood of Man. There are
no problems in these innocent songs; any problems only exist in the
eye of the beholder (or the ear of the listener).
Glenn
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:50:53 -0000
From: Fred Clemens
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s
Bill Craig wrote:
> I'm still on my fun facts about forty-fives kick. What was the
> first single released in stereo?
Stereo 45's go back to the late 1950's. I've always heard that Roy
Hamilton's "Don't Let Go" was the first commercially available 45
released in Stereo (1957-58). (There were mono pressings too.)
Fred Clemens
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:17:46 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: '60s Influential Geniuses/Brian Wilson
Dave Mirich wrote:
> What always tickles me is when a young punker or rock/hip-hop type
> mentions in interview how much BW has influenced him/her.
Mike McKay:
> Just as it tickled me to read long ago of what a big fan Jim
> Morrison was of Brian Wilson. Talk about support from a quarter
> you'd least expect!
Mike, When i was 16, I thought I WAS Bian Wilson. I found out I
wasn't (lol). Nobobdy has influenced me more than he. Bacharach, I
discovered around the same time. Some of Brian's songs may be sappy
or strange, but nobody can think harmony like Brian.
Steveo
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:27:25 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Hollywood
Austin, I lived in various places in Hollywood. Stayed at a
recording studio at nights for awhile. With friends near Carver
off of Vine, also the old Hastings Hotel east of Vine on
Hollywood Blvd. At other times I commuted to Hollywood whilst
living in La Puente. Steveo
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:19:32 -0000
From: Gary
Subject: Dick St. John - R.I.P.
I just read on another board that Dick, of Dick & Dee Dee, has died.
Here is the message I read........
Gary
Dick St. John, half of the "Dick & Dee Dee" duo, whose 1961 hit, "The
Mountain's High," made No. 2 on the Billboard pop singles chart, has
died. He was 63.
St. John died early Saturday morning at the University of California,
Los Angeles Medical Center in Westwood, according to family friend,
Judith Capps.
Capps said St. John died after falling from a ladder outside his
Pacific Palisades home Friday.
St. John, born Richard Gosting, began performing with his friend Mary
Sperling in junior high. With St. John as the chief songwriter, the
two soon attracted the attention of Liberty Records in Los Angeles,
then one of the hottest independent record labels in the country.
St. John and Sperling, who was quickly renamed "Dee Dee" by the label,
joined an eclectic roster that ranged from early rock 'n' roll to
country music and included such stars as Willie Nelson, June Carter,
Bobby Vee, Johnny Burnette, The Rivingtons and Jan and Dean.
Dick & Dee Dee reflected the mixture of influences that characterized
the early '60s American pop music scene, combining elements of doo-wop,
blue-eyed soul and R&B in their sound. They toured with the Beach Boys
and Rolling Stones.
The group's biggest hit was "The Mountain's High", but they also
cracked the Top 25 pop singles chart in 1963 with "Young and In Love"
and 1965's "Thou Shalt Not Steal."
Dick & Dee Dee were semi-regulars on such musical shows as "American
Bandstand." St. John also wrote songs that were recorded by Lesley
Gore, Jan and Dean, Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons and Quincy Jones,
and he contributed music to many television shows.
St. John continued to record and performed regularly until his death.
He is survived by his wife, Sandy, who joined him as the "new" Dee
Dee in his touring act when Sperling retired in the early 1970s.
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:35:38 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson influence
> So now then - in what way is Brian Wilson influential? No one has
> been able to follow what he did, it remains unique. There is nothing
> like "Pet Sounds" and nothing remotely like "Smile." There has never
> been a vocal group as extraordinary as the Beach Boys, no one has
> come close. So Brian Wilson might be an inspiration to many, but
> I'm sceptical about his actual influence. I would of course be happy
> to be convinced otherwise.
In the 60s/70s resurgence of recent years, the 'influence' of the
Wilsons has indeed been somewhat obscure. But it's definitely there.
But indeed, I think Dave is quite right in suggesting there's been no
influence in as much as 'following on' and continuing to develop from
what the Brian Wilson did. So I guess the below might fall into the
category of homage. These examples to my ears are the most notable
and definitely worth a listen. All british too. Of course I'm sure I
haven't heard them all and would welcome any other suggestions.
Pale And Precious - Dukes Of Stratosphear (Actually an XTC pseudonym)
>From Psonic Psunspot (1987)
Chalkhills And Children - XTC
>From Oranges And Lemons (1989)
Service - Silver Sun
>From Silver Sun (1997)
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:53:55 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: First Beatles / 60s resurgence?? Klaatu!
90s Britpop took a lot of credit for bringing the 60s back, but the
spirit of that concept was alive and well long before.
In fact if we consider 90s Britpop on it's own, the unsung godfathers
of pop retro must surely be considered to be England's XTC. They were
doing tracks that sounded like the White Album as early as their
Black Sea album in 1980. 'No Language In Our Lungs' being an obvious
case in point. No one batted an eye. Least of all in Britain.
But I believe the earliest traceable example of 60s retro was born on
the first of January 1973, when three canadian session guys stepped
into a Toronto studio and began work on what became the 'Klaatu'
album (or '3:47 EST' in Canada). You may remember the furore when the
press suggested it may have been a reformed Beatles.
But that aside, the Klaatu debut had sterling examples of a longing
for the 60s while still sounding state of the art and up to date in
every way when it was released in 1976. Ingredients of Beatles, Beach
Boys, and even the Turtles, abound. It even displayed two prime
examples of progressive rock whilst still keeping the music palatable
to pro and public alike; 'Calling Occupants Of Interplanetary Craft'
being the most famous of these.
If someone can point out an earlier example of this, I'd love to know
what it is.
Peter.
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 04:40:12 -0000
From: JD Doyle
Subject: Re: Ketty Lester
Mick Patrick:
> I've posted one other to musica: "I'll Be Looking Back" by
> Ketty Lester, released on Tower 166 in 1965. Take a listen,
> it's great
Bob Beason:
> Indeed it is, Mick! And thank you so much for playing it to
> musica! I'd been wondering what the title of that fantastic song
> was ever since I first saw her perform it on a bootleg Shindig
> video many years ago. You made my day, mate!
I also want to thank Mick for that gem....and I can't be the only
one who, with that song's arrangement, did not immediately think it
was the best song the Shangri Las never did...:)
JD Doyle
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:15:14 -0500
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Jimmie Cross / Let's Live For Today
Were The Hangmen the same as The Hangmen Of Fairfield County, of
"Stacey" fame? I'd thought the Fairfield Co. mention in their name
referred to Virginia, but, with parts of VA being so close to DC,
perhaps there is a connection between the two.
David Coyle wrote:
> There are two songs on the CD "Jump!" by the UK freakbeat/mod
> band The Riot Squad that sound like blueprints to the Rokes
> original version of "Let's Live For Today" as well.
A very generous member of our group -- who shall remain nameless, lest
everyone hit him up for a copy -- recently turned me on to Ricky
Nelson's 1962 version of "Summertime," which opens with the signature
"Let's Live For Today" lick. I'm guessing it was played there by James
Burton.
ACJ wrote:
> Country Paul: Jimmie Cross's "other" single, "Hey Little Girl," was
> released on the Charly 4-CD set "The Red Bird Story", but not since
> (that I know of).
I have another Jimmy Cross 45, "The Ballad Of James Bong" / "Play The
Other Side Again," on Tollie. Wr. credits (on both sides) are to
Botkin-Garfield-Cross-Price-Cole, with Botkin & Garfield co-pr. Every
couple of years or so I decide to try the "James Bong" side again, and
every couple of years or so it once again leaves me cold. Cross might
be THE classic one-hit novelty wonder, with not simply one HIT in his
catalogue, but one good record period.*
--Phil M.
*that being, for those heathens who have yet to experience the miracle
of the Cross, "I Want My Baby Back"
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:36:02 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Grass Roots on Musica
Mark T wrote:
> Not the best song on the LP IMO. Optical Illusion sounds
> more like a Roots song. This one sounds more like Hamilton,
> Joe Frank and Reynolds.
Oh, you mean the Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds that recorded "Don't
Pull Your Love", a song written for (but turned down by) the Grass
Roots, produced by the Roots' producer Steve Barri, horns arranged by
their arranger Jimmie Haskell, written by their writers Dennis
Lambert & Brian Potter, and on their label ABC/Dunhill?
H,JF&R were pretty close to the Grass Roots in sound, but they did
lean more toward ballads, especially in their later years. But the
Grass Roots did stretch out with a ballad or two now and then, and
even had a hit with one - "Bella Linda".
If you like "Optical Illusion", also written by Lambert & Potter, you
should check out the song that it is a re-write of, "Anyway the Wind
Blows", the fourth single from the Grass Roots' "Move Along"
album. "Anyway the Wind Blows" didn't chart, but was a great
song. "Optical Illusion"'s chorus is nearly a duplicate of it. Which
is cool because, of course, Lambert & Potter wrote "Wind" too.
While I agree with you that "Optical Illusion" is more typically
Grass Roots, I think their song from the same album which is on
Musica, "I Wanna Slow Dance Again", is definitely one of the
highlights of the album, proving they could do as good a job on
slower material as on the uptempo pop-rock-soul they are best known
for. There are a couple of bad choices of material on the album -
Lambert & Potter produced, and as Lambert was going thru an
infatuation with Randy Newman songs at the time, he had the Roots
record "Naked Man", one of the most mismatched song-with-artist
combinations that has ever occurred. It was even released as a
single, with predictably disastrous results. I personally blame that
choice of single for the end of the Grass Roots' chart-making days,
especially when the album had other much more single-worthy material,
including their version of the Gayle McCormick near-hit "It's A
Cryin' Shame" and the aforementioned "Optical Illusion".
Well, I could ramble on forever about this album and the Grass Roots,
and if you'd like to hear me do so, just skip over to my Golden Grass
site at http://home.att.net/~souldeep69/index.html
By the way, you mentioned a group called Wishbone which you said was
a copycat of the Grass Roots. Can you tell me any more about them -
their label, records released, years, etc?
Thanks,
Glenn
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:54:30 -0000
From: pnreum
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson Influence
Brian was the first self-producing artist or auteur in rock. He
produced Surfer Girl and many more albums at Western and Gold Star
using outside musicians prior to any other band. His use of the
studio as an instrument for voices and instrumental tracks combined
is unprecedented, as is his recording in modules of sound. I could go
on and on but Brian is the first producer to independently record at
a major label, recording his own songs and using musicians of his
choice. This was unheard of prior to Brian. It is just assumed that
this happens automatically today, but it started with Brian Wilson.
Not even the Beatles ever did this, as George Martin has attested in
many Beach Boys and Brian documentaries.
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:54:55 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Re: First Beatles / 60s resurgence?? Klaatu!
Peter Kearns wrote:
> But that aside, the Klaatu debut had sterling examples of a
> longing for the 60s while still sounding state of the art and up to
> date in every way when it was released in 1976. Ingredients of
> Beatles, Beach Boys, and even the Turtles, abound.
> If someone can point out an earlier example of this, I'd love to
> know what it is.
My longish reply:
I guess the earlier the example the more likely it's not so much a
longing for the 60s as much as an out-dated record? I'm a big fan of
this trend none-the-less:
Three of my favorite examples are "Yes It Is" by Rockin' Horse
(Philips UK, 1971), the self titled LP by Sleepy Hollow (Family
Productions US, 1972) and Stackridges' "Friendliness" (MCA UK,
1972).
Both Rockin' Horse and Sleepy Hollow are mostly Beatle-like and in
fact both records sound almost exactly like the Beatles in parts.
What's fascinating to me is that 1971 and 1972 couldn't have been a
good time to sound like the Beatles if you were hoping to sell a lot
of records (they didn't!). "Friendliness" has elements of the
Beatles, the Beachboys, Bonzo Dog band and... you name it. Quite a
unique record for 1972.
Other artists who generally and fairly early on adapted (or kept) a
60s sound: The Rubinoos, Dwight Twilley, Stamford Bridge/First Class
and even NRBQ.
Also, there are a number of mid 70s glam/glitter bands worth looking
into. The roll call is too long to list but a wonderful recent
compilation to check out is "Glitter from the Little Bin." The comp
(on Sequel UK) has great examples of the resurgence of big, booming,
melodic songs in the mid 70s.
Two notes:
Many of the songs on Klaatu's first record were written much earlier
than the 1976 release date. Some as early as 1971. They started
releasing singles in 1973 and it took 3 more years to get the whole
LP to the public. So it's not too surprising that they sounded "60-
ish." However, they never gave up on the sound even though the
Beatles hype killed them. Three of their remaining 4 records were
wonderfully melodic pop affairs.
Stackridge released an amazing and yet totally unnoticed "reunion"
LP in 1999 called "Something for the Weekend." It's full of the same
melodic tendencies as their 1970s releases. James Warren, who was
probably the main proponent of their Beatles/Beach Boys sound, was
also in the 70s band Korgis... yet another example of a band
updating 60s sounds.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:58:00 -0000
From: Chelsea
Subject: Re: Ketty Lester
Phil Milstein wrote:
> ...........the posting causes me to ask if anyone has a clue as
> to why Ketty Lester didn't manage to last at a high level of
> commercial success. I don't know how long she'd been working
> before hitting upon "Love Letters," but at least at that moment
> she seemed ideally positioned for long-term stardom......
Incidentally, does anyone know who played piano on Ketty's "Love
Letters"? We know the great Earl Palmer was on drums (his book
details the garage studio in CA where it was recorded but little
else). Anyone?
Thanks
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Message: 26
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Steveo
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s
> What was the first single released in stereo?
> I'm thinking "Touch Me" by the Doors, or possibly
> "Alone Again Or" by Love.
Mikey wrote:
> Not even close...................1959......Paul Anka
> "Lonely Boy".
Yes, but those were for jukeboxes, yes?
Steveo
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Message: 27
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:41:25 -0000
From: Estufarian
Subject: Re: Beatles covers (Godfrey Daniel - & Big Daddy)
Mike McKay wrote:
> On those grounds, I nominate "Hey Jude" by Godfrey Daniel. For
> those who've never heard their early 1970s album on Atlantic
> ("Take a Sad Song"), it consists almost entirely of doo wop-styled
> versions of recent rock 'n' roll hits (among the others: "Purple
> Haze," "Dance to the Music," "Woodstock," "Whole Lotta Love," etc.)
At last a mention of one of my favourite albums - and I can't really
add anything to the obscure history - other than support the
recommendation. In fact, I had previously heard that it featured some
of the original Royal Teens group, but your Amboy Dukes connection
seems stronger (Royal Teens also covered Hey Jude, so that might have
been the erroneous source of my rumour).
But it also leads directly to another Beatles cover - which I'm
REALLY surprised nobody mentioned. The entire Sgt Pepper album was
covered by Big Daddy, who took the Godfrey Daniels album as a
template and issued several albums with 'modern songs' (i.e 80s
songs when they were released) and redid them 'as they would (should)
have been recorded in the 50s. In particular the version of 'A Day
In The Life' is done as Buddy Holly might have done it, and has a
really sick (or brilliant) ending depending on your viewpoint.
Big Daddy were a parody group - but in the best sense where the love
of the original music shines through. For example, they
do 'Graceland' (on another album) as Elvis 'should' have done it.
Their schtick was that they toured the US troops in Laos in 1959 and
were captured by the Communists, but the US Govt covered it up as
officially the US wasn't active in Laos. 24 years later the CIA
busted them out and sequestered them for a debriefing. As a band,
they were supplied with sheet music but they hadn't heard any western
music since 1959 so played the songs as they esxpected them to sound.
These recordings were then smuggled out (to Rhino records).
Their songs work best when you hate the original (e.g. The Living
Years redone as Leader of the Pack) so the Sgt Pepper album is too
good to be really parodied well - but as a complete work it's amazing.
To hear some of their work try:
http://www.bigdaddyfan.com/Jukebox.html
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Message: 28
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:57:39 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Musica Files
Dear Spectropoppers,
I am curious. Sometimes I try to play a file from Musica and it
works just fine. Then there are times when I get a message saying
that Windows Media Player can't play the file, or worse yet I get a
page saying "You are not authorized to view this page." Does anyone
else suffer from these inconsistencies and is there anything I can
do about them? I'm missing out on too many recordings I would like
to hear.
Thanks,
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 29
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:00:34 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: The Cherry People / The Hangmen
Mike McKay wrote:
> Cherry People were in fact a very hard-rockin' punk aggregation,
> probably second in popularity only to The Hangmen in D.C. But the
> album's producer used studio musicians and made them do lightweight
> pop along the lines of "And Suddenly." They were quite disgusted
> with the whole thing and disavowed it.
Mark T. replied:
> It never ceases to amaze me the great lengths that groups would go
> to to try to avoid any possibility of success.........
> So they really were angry that they were made to put out a commercial
> sounding record that had a chance rather than some garagey crap that
> they wanted to record.
Mike:
> Mark, if you don't mind me asking, are you a musician? I say this
> because your entire post seems predicated on the notion that
> commercial "success" is the unquestioned be-all and end-all of every
> musician. And that by extension, as a musician it shouldn't really
> matter what music you play or whatever else you have to do, as long
> as you "make it."
Hi,
After talking with our local Lincoln boys, the Coachmen, they
went both ways on this subject. In 1965, the group recorded "Mr.
Moon" which went to #1 in Lincoln and Omaha instantly. This release
was on local MMC. It was sold to a bigger label for better
distribution, Bear Records, outta Minneapolis. The record reached
#114 on the Hot 100 about 6 months after it went to #1 in Lincoln,
reaching #12 in San Francisco. Problem was, distribution was
sporadic and Bear Records wasn't a terrific "big" label after all.
A possible national hit slipped thru' their hands.
After more 45s and a name change and more small gigs (4 years
going now), along came Kasenetz-Katz telling them they could be on
the same label with the Turtles! After struggling for so long, they
felt it their chance to break thru'. They were "handed" the KK owned
name "Professor Morrison's Lollipop" and a KK song, "You Got the
Love". If you wanna call the song bubblegum, it has the KK tinge,
but it has a rough edge to it that kept the group's respectability
when the group performed it amongst the normal r&b/rock stuff they
were playing in concert. The song, while not a big hit, did reach
#88 on Billboard and got airplay nationally. I think it's a pretty
good record, myself.
Then came the downside of the above limited success. There was
gigging with the "KK Singing Orchestral Cirkus" and followups,
"Angela" and "Oop Poo Pah Susie" on which KK used session singers
and the band did not have any hand in. The group lived on the
success of "You Got the Love" for awhile, changing members and
folding.
So, they kinda got what they wanted...and what they didn't want.
At least the Cherry People had a big hit, but were then stuck with
the pop role they had to play out. I like their "And Suddenly"
myself, but I understand their pain.
Clark
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Message: 30
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:41:57 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Troggs' Good Vibrations / Lafayettes / jailbait rock
Artie Wayne wrote:
> A few weeks later I got my freind Larry Page to record and release it
> with the Troggs......it started......."I love the summer clothes you
> almost wear........and how the sunlight plays upon your hair......"
Thanks, Artie, for another great and improbable story from behind the
scenes! When the Troggs' version of "Good Vibrations" was released,
WNEW-FM in New York debuted it with the hushed announcement that it was
the new record by Elton John. I loved the record and, as a high school
kid deep in the throes of Eltonmania, I waited and waited for it to hit
the market so I could run out and buy it, but of course it never did.
Imagine my bewilderment, then, when in college a few years later I
purchased the coyly-named "Troggs Tapes" LP, and finally caught up with
"Elton's" version of "Good Vibrations." (I think I read recently that
Elton might've played piano on that version, or perhaps sung backup,
hence the DJ's confusion.)
By the way, Artie, did you suggest to Page that he cut the version with
The Troggs, or just throw your idea out to him and let him choose
what-all (if anything) to do with it?
Dave Heasman wrote:
> a fantastic guttural croak. All to a backing that's very much
> like Del Shannon's "Runaway". I must get it from the loft.
Yes, and play it to musica, if you're able; I'm dyin' to hear that one.
Glenn wrote:
> A brief listing of major hits concerning "jailbait":
The most blatant song of this type is "Jailbait," by the great Andre
Williams. While not graphic, it's certainly not coy about the age
situation, either. Of course this is no place for a discussion of sexual
morality, but since Glenn brought it up I'd like to point out that
society does (or at least should) make a clear distinction between sex
between near-age partners, and sex between an adult and a minor. Donny
Osmond's "Sweet And Innocent," for example, doesn't really belong on a
"jailbait" list (whereas several of Chuck Berry's hits do). (Also, the
defense that "she lied about her age" is hardly a valid one; as they
say, "Tell it to the judge." Or, put another way, "When in doubt, leave
it out.")
--Phil M.
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Message: 31
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:36:05 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: "Uptight"
Phil Milstein wrote:
> "Uptight" appears to be a fairly recent word altogether, as opposed to
> a longstanding word that came to take on entirely new meaning (c.f.
> current use of "random" among kids). What I find especially interesting
> is the fact of such a new word acquiring opposing meanings nearly at
> its birth.
Like Bad for Excellent
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Message: 32
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:11:06 -0800
From: James Holvay
Subject: Re: The Mob/"Where You Lead"
Austin Roberts wrote:
> Just to keep this string going, I was in a group called the
> Arkade on Dunhill and we released Carole King's "Where You Lead"
> at the same time you guys did; I think we helped cancel each other
> out. Bummer. I think I'm right about that.
Austin: That's pretty funny. Here I thought we (The Mob) had an
exclusive on "Where You Lead". I wonder how many other groups cut
that song, other than Streisand? We also cut "I Feel The Earth Move"
at the same session but Carole K. beat us to the punch on that one.
Oh well ...
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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