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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 22 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Brian Wilson Influence-studio
From: Steveo
2. Re: The Hangmen
From: Justin McDevitt
3. Re: Brian Wilson's influence
From: Dee
4. Re: Mob/Arkade "Where You Lead" versions
From: Clark Besch
5. (Why) Brackets?
From: Paul Bryant
6. Felice Taylor
From: Jackie Taylor
7. Re: Pet Sounds
From: Richard Williams
8. Re: Crystals' All Grown Up
From: Jimmy Crescitelli
9. Sundae Train
From: Albin Lindström
10. Dick St John
From: Richard Williams
11. Re: Influence of Brian Wilson
From: Susan
12. Re: Good Vibrations/Pet Sounds
From: Susan
13. Re: "Walk Away Renee"
From: Mike
14. Hamilton, Joe Frank, & Reynolds
From: Nick Archer
15. Re: Tim Gilbert
From: Clark Besch
16. Crystals "All Grown Up", Which Version is Which
From: John Clemente
17. Under the Influence
From: Steve Harvey
18. Re: Stereo 45s/Brian Wilson
From: Clark Besch
19. One Onederful Night
From: ~albabe
20. Coasters CD help
From: Superoldies
21. Re The Shadows
From: Justin McDevitt
22. Re: The Shadows
From: Steve Harvey
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:17:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Steveo
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson Influence-studio
pnreum wrote:
> ....I could go on and on but Brian is the first producer to
> independently record at a major label, recording his own songs
> and using musicians of his choice. This was unheard of prior to
> Brian. It is just assumed that this happens automatically today,
> but it started with Brian Wilson. Not even the Beatles ever did
> this, as George Martin has attested in many Beach Boys and Brian
> documentaries.
This is correct. The label always had the group record at their
given studio and assigned a producer. But Brian wanted to record
outside of Capitol as he didnt like the Tower studio "sound" for
rock and roll. Murry, Brian's dad, convinced Capitol that it would
work and they agreed as long as the stuff sounded good.
Steveo
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:24:45 -0600
From: Justin McDevitt
Subject: Re: The Hangmen
Mike McKay wrote:
> And one more note...The Hangmen's "What a Girl Can't Do"
> is among my all-time favorite 60s punk numbers. However, the band
> that actually recorded the original single on Monument was The
> Reekers........
First of all, I'm glad this thread originating with Austin's question
regarding a Mike Brown-Cherry People connection has continued.
Mike, I've never heard the original of "What A Girl Can't Do," but I
vividly remember the first time that I heard the Hangmen's version as
one of WPGC's future "Boss Hits".
Is there a CD compilation that includes this track?
Also, thanks for mentioning the Mark Opasnick book. It would be great to
learn about the D.C. bands that I remember from the mid 60s era; The
British Walkers, The Fallen Angels, The Flavor, The Claude Jones Band,
The Nowhere Men etc.
Justin McDevitt
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:34:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Dee
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson's influence
Paul Bryant wrote:
> There has never been a vocal group as
> extraordinary as the Beach Boys, no one has come
> close. So Brian Wilson might be an inspiration
> to many, but I'm sceptical about his
> actual influence. I would of course be happy to
> be convinced otherwise.
I'm almost convinced this post is a joke - sounding
like "Pet Sounds" or "Smile" or not has little to do
with the question of "influence". In fact, the
biggest influences tend to be so fully incorporated
into shared culture that they're hard to detect.
Nonetheless, I've personally heard highly regarded
"modern" artists such as Rufus Wainwright, Elvis
Costello, Sean Lennon, Beck, Stereolab, Wilco and
loads of others refer to an idea or sound or
production technique in the studio with specific
references to Brian Wilson/Beach Boys. I can't tell
you the number of times I've heard the phrases "Carol
Kaye bass part" or "Hal Blaine drum fill" during the
creation of all sorts of records, from punk rock to
hip-hop, and specifically naming relevant sounds on
"Pet Sounds".
Certainly from all the hipsters I know, the Brian
Wilson influence reigns supreme - I can't think of any
artist whose work so directly influences what's going
on today as ol' Brian.
We all know that there were great records in the 60s
that barely scraped the charts by artists like the
Velvet Underground and Love. This bit of an
aberration is largely the rule today. I think part of
the reason that you don't hear a Brian Wilson
influence so readily today is because almost none of
the newer artists making credible music today actually
get much radio play (some with a Wilson influence,
like Scotland's Beta Band - widely touted by folks
like Brian Eno - I've never even heard once on my
local college station). Have you heard Rufus
Wainwright's "Want One" or the High Llamas' "Gideon
Gaye"?
Dee
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:10:07 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Mob/Arkade "Where You Lead" versions
James Holvay wrote:
> ....(Soul'd Out) was originally called The Red Velvet. That
> was the first club my group (The Mob) played in LA, when Capitol
> flew us out to record in '66.
Austin Roberts:
> Just to keep this string going, I was in a group called the
> Arkade on Dunhill and we released Carole King's "Where You Lead"
> at the same time you guys did; I think we helped cancel each other
> out. Bummer. I think I'm right about that.
How interesting that we have the two of you that had dueling 45s!
Both coming off moderate hits at about the same time! Reminds me of
many double releases that WERE hits still - Bobby Vee and composer
Kenny O'Dell's "Beautiful People" is one I always felt would have
been top 10, had only one of these two top 40 hits been released.
I know the Left Banke's "And Suddenly" was a 45 by them but not sure if
it battled the Cherry People or if it was even the A side.
At least the Mob's version of "Where You Lead" is accessible on
CD. I don't think any of the Arkade's stuff (a crime, I believe) is
CD available, is it?
Clark
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:12:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: (Why) Brackets?
Dear Spectropoppers,
You all remember these:
(There's) Always Something There To Remind Me
(The Best Part Of) Breaking Up
Remember (Walkin' in the Sand)
Dawn (Go Away)
etc., etc....
So the question is... why was there this rash of silly brackets
in song titles in the 60s? Who started it (anyway)?
pb
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:23:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jackie Taylor
Subject: Felice Taylor
Hello, does anyone know whatever happened to Felice Taylor? Is she
still singing. I heard that she may have had some past emotional
problems, but is she still with us? I am an "Entertainment Specialist"
and would like to write a story about her, but know one seems to know
where she is these days.
If anyone has information about her at all, please reply to this message.
Thanks,
P.S. There may also be record royalties stored up for her if she can
be found.
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:19:19 +0000
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Re: Pet Sounds
Steve Harvey wrote:
> How many LPs have had one, let alone two, books written
> about them?
Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" was the subject of two full-length
books published a couple of years ago. The better (and more
successful) of them, by Ashley Kahn, contained a great deal of
fascinating information about recording processes in the 1950s,
with particular reference to Columbia Records.
Richard Williams
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:45:08 EST
From: Jimmy Crescitelli
Subject: Re: Crystals' All Grown Up
Vlaovic B asked:
> I finally found a copy of the Crystals greatest hits to complement
> the 4 CD 'Back to Mono' Set. Question though...which version of
> 'All Grown Up' was released as a single? Either the looser, party-
> styled version on the single CD or the tighter, almost sonic version
> on the box set?
> My preference is the sonic version, but in either case it didn't do
> very well as a single, did it...?
Hi V.B.:
What you refer to as the "sonic" version debuted as a Philles single...
and reached 98 in Billboard! The "party" version has the "bop bop bops"
in the background, and was one of the first alternate takes released by
Spector in compilation albums. I prefer the released version myself.
=Jimmy==
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:40:05 -0000
From: Albin Lindström
Subject: Sundae Train
Hi,
I recently discovered two fantastic singles by the Sundae Train. I
have been searching the net for more info but I haven't come up with
much. All I know is that the band were from the New York area and
released their records on The Tokens BT Puppy label. The two singles
I have been able to find are:
Wake Up (Sleepy Girl)/I Wanna Be
Sing Sweet Barbara/Love Affair of Two Happy People
These four songs can be found on the new Rev-ola BT Puppy compilation
(which I haven't got yet so I don't know if there is any more info
on the band there). Anyway, the songs are wonderful examples of soft
pop at its best and they make me wonder if the Sundae Train ever
released an album or more singles?
Thanks and a happy new year to all!
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:40:06 +0000
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Dick St John
Dick St John, the Dick of Dick and Dee Dee, died in Los Angeles on
Saturday, aged 63. There's a decent obituary on the LA Times website
(http://latimes.com -- you'll need to register).
Richard Williams
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:47:18 EST
From: Susan
Subject: Re: Influence of Brian Wilson
Paul Bryant writes:
> So now then - in what way is Brian Wilson influential? No one has
> been able to follow what he did, it remains unique. There is nothing
> like "Pet Sounds" and nothing remotely like "Smile." There has never
> been a vocal group as extraordinary as the Beach Boys, no one has come
> close. So Brian Wilson might be an inspiration to many, but I'm
> sceptical about hisactual influence. I would of course be happy to be
> convinced otherwise.
Let's start with the artist being in control in the studio. It didn't
really happen that way before Brian [and father Murry] insisted that he
be in charge. I'm sure others will speak to direct musical influences,
but to me, this extends beyond the music itself, to how the records were
made.
Susan
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:41:39 EST
From: Susan
Subject: Re: Good Vibrations/Pet Sounds
Austin R writes:
> I believe "Good Vibrations" was supposed to be on "Pet Sounds" but just
> released as a single.
It was recorded during that time, but Brian [wisely] decided that it didn't
fit with Pet Sounds.
Nice to see the Beach Boys and Brian getting some air time here. I think
many people have only lately come to realize what he/they meant to the sounds
that were developing in the early 1960s. I never cared about that part of it,
tho'; I've just always, always loved the music.
Susan
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 08:15:41 -0500
From: Mike
Subject: Re: "Walk Away Renee"
Richard Williams wrote:
> "Walk Away Renee" is one of the few great songs ........
Richard,
I came across a version of "Walk Away Renee" that I hadn't heard
before but liked very much. It was recorded By Marshall Crenshaw
for his album "I've Suffered For My Art" - 2001. It's a live
recording and has a distinctly "unplugged" feel to it. The tempo is
slower than the original and (no offense to Left Banke) you can
understand the lyrics much better). I haven't heard Rikki Lee Jones'
version as yet, but for my money the Left Banke recording will
always be the definitive version, with the 4 Tops' interpretation
a worthy number two.
Mike in Mass.
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:35:06 -0600
From: Nick Archer
Subject: Hamilton, Joe Frank, & Reynolds
I purchased a copy of "Annabella" by HJF&R the other day on
the iTunes music store for 99 cents. Almost as much fun as
finding it in a store. Anyone else been browsing the digital
stacks?
Nick Archer
Check out Nashville's classic radio station SM95 at http://www.live365.com/stations/nikarcher
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:10:42 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Tim Gilbert
Scott Charbonneau wrote:
> Hi Clark!! Do you think that, at your convenience, you could
> play the other side of the Tim Gilbert 45, "Early October," to
> musica?
Scott, sorry I didn't put that song up. I thought I had. Likely,
musica was crowded for awhile and I forgot about it. Will put up
when room is there.
Thanks,
Clark
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:21:35 -0500
From: John Clemente
Subject: Crystals "All Grown Up", Which Version is Which
Hello Everyone,
Vlaovic B wrote:
> I finally found a copy of the Crystals greatest hits to complement
> the 4 CD 'Back to Mono' Set. Question though...which version of
> 'All Grown Up' was released as a single? Either the looser, party-
> styled version on the single CD or the tighter, almost sonic version
> on the box set?
The version that came out as a single in 1964 is what you have referred
to as the "sonic" version. The "live" sounding version was released on
the CD and you can also acquire it as a 45 if you buy the Collectibles
box sets released in 1983 on colored vinyl. My preference is the party version. The original doesn't do much for me.
Regards,
John Clemente
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:31:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Under the Influence
I always took being influenced to mean that hearing
something touched in such a way as to inspire your own
music. Sgt. Pepper's was definitely influenced by Pet
Sounds, but both albums have their own distinct
sounds.
Back in 1978 I got a chance of a lifetime to hang out
with Brian and play Spector (what else?) 45s. At the
time the McCartney interview LP was out on Columbia.
Paul mentioned the influence on Sgt. Pepper's that Pet
Sounds had. When I told Brian about it he humbly
replied, "Well, we were just trying to top Rubber
Soul". Never thought Pet Sounds sounded like Rubber
Soul, but obviously it did influence Brian.
Terry Stafford's big hit "Suspicion" replicates the
styles of the original.
Stafford's version must have some extra that Elvis'
version didn't since the King flopped on that one.
Stafford's version, which followed, was a hit. Of
course, Vivian Stanshall's version is still the best
("give me some proof of your love, have it in
triplicate on my desk by Monday").
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:49:59 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s/Brian Wilson
Bill Craig wrote:
> I'm still on my fun facts about forty-fives kick.
> What was the first single released in stereo?
> I'm thinking "Touch Me" by the Doors, or possibly "Alone Again
> Or" by Love. I don't know why it would have been something on
> Electra, but that is what I seem to remember. I could easily be
> wrong.
Bill, you are thinking of the "second wave" of stereo 45s. Like me,
you probably didn't know growing up that it had been tried from '58 to
'61 or so vaguely, and eventually failed a la 4 channel stereo a decade
later. Some of the early stereo 45 versions are still unavailable
elsewhere, I think. The FM revolution in the later 60s led to the
resurgence of stereo 45s, mostly due to stereo FM's move to less
airplay if they did not receive stereo versions. Thus, at first,
there were non-store stereo DJ 45s. I have Boyce & Hart's summer
'67 "Out & About" on a stereo DJ 45. Supposedly, A&M's Merry Go Round
45 "Live" was similarly released to DJs that way - mono/stereo sides.
Early "in store" stereo 45s were Lemon Pipers' "Rice Is Nice",
Rascals' "A Beautiful Morning", Animals' "Sky Pilot", Fireballs'
"Goin Away", Cream's "Anyone for Tennis" and one of the best reasons
for stereo 45s was the great mix on the Doors' pre-"Touch Me" stereo 45,
"Hello I Love You"! Oddly, the stereo 45s had a hard time catching on
after these initial releases, leading to an odd period in '69 to '71,
where you had all kinds of stereo/mono issues.
First, followup releases by many of the above DID NOT get stereo
45 issues! Lemon Pipers' "Jelly Jungle", Rascals' "People Got To Be
Free", Fireballs' "Come On React", Cream's "White Room" did not get
the treatment! Then, stereo stations got either stereo/mono or
stereo/stereo 45s and mono stations got mono/mono copies! This happened
with Columbia Records especially. Then, there was the "compatible mono/
stereo" labelling. Often these were actually just plain mono!
Hermits' "Sleepy Joe" was an early one like this. In the early 70s, the
labels liked to use this to cover up the fact that a 45 was actually
recorded in mono and they had no way to make it stereo!
I am very happy to have Austin Robert's Arkade hit "Morning of
Our Lives" on a stereo/mono DJ 45, as the store copy was mono and it
is not on CD yet in stereo - AND the stereo is well mixed!! Gotta be
one of the few Hot 100 hits that is in stereo on vinyl, that is still
unavailable in stereo on legit CD. The Messengers' "That's The Way A
Woman Is" is another non-LP stereo/mono DJ-only 45 that I believe is
still non-CD.
Anyway, I didn't answer the question, I just added fuel to the
fire.......
Take care,
Clark
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:39:24 -0800
From: ~albabe
Subject: One Onederful Night
Mark... actually, from what I've read, Joyce was very musical.
This (below) site is a lot of conjecture, but still very interesting:
http://www.james-joyce-music.com/
I still think Molly's stream of consciousness in the last chapter of
Ulysses would be a bit difficult to boogie to... maybe a free form jazz
thing would work though...
Chris said:
> Wordplay? What "wordplay"? Is there a topical allusion that I'm
> missing? Perhaps a startling image that eludes my poor clouded
> senses? Or is it the "never will forget"/"tonight I met" rhyme
> that you find impressive? Do explain.
I never assumed you had "clouded senses," Chris... and don't expect
"startling" from me either.
I always assumed "wordplay" was defined as verbal wit, which I assume,
is similar to "playing with words." And "One Wonderful Night" is
wordplay isn't it? ("one" and "won-derful"). Similar to: "Oh, please,
lend your little ear to my pleas..." or "Please, please me..." or even
the name of that great '60s band The Oneders (pronounced Oh-Need-Ers of
course).
But in this case I also meant the combination of words and music. The
playful way the words of each third line have a completely different
meter/phrasing than the first two lines. It's not the usual "answer
style" syntax of this period. In my opinion it's actually very witty,
amusing and clever in terms of the musical interaction with the words.
I like the way each of the first two lines of the stanza move one time
through the entire chord progression (with the pick-up)... and then the
last line has enough syllables to make three more single lines, but
instead walks through the entire set of changes without any significant
pause.
Oh this has been,
one wonderful night
A night I never will forget for the rest of my life
Tonight I met,
one wonderful boy
And I know we're gonna share a love time can never destroy.
peace,
~albabe
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:39:48 -0000
From: Superoldies
Subject: Coasters CD help
I've looked all over the net and have had absolutely no luck finding
the Coasters' "50 Coastin' Classics" 2 CD set by Rhino. It's the
only CD with a few tunes I need for the SuperOldies station. If
anyone here has it and would be kind enough to trade some tunes or
CD-Rs of it, please let me know. The only copy I've seen is on
Amazon for $100!
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:15:34 -0600
From: Justin McDevitt
Subject: Re The Shadows
Hello Spectropop,
David Coyle's comments regarding the influence of the Shadows on American
bands brings to mind my first introduction to Chris Isaac's music in 1990.
The first question that I asked myself when I heard that twangy guitar was:
"I wonder if The Shadows were an influence on this guy's guitar style".
A local group here in the Twin Cities, Jack Knife and the Sharps also
sound very Shadowesesque on a number of their songs.
Justin McDevitt
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:10:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: The Shadows
Imagine the Ventures backing up Elvis while releasing
their own instrumental hits and transport it to
England, there you have it, The Shadows. The one major
difference was that the Shadows had Jerry Lordan
writing a string of hits for them. The Ventures had to
scramble all over for their hits.
I think the Shadows missed because of lousy promotion
over in the States (partly due to being British). By
the time the British Invasion hit their style seemed
passe.
I got a nice Christmas gift from my penpal in
Liverpool last week. While at a gallery opening for
Rolf Harris ("Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport"), now a big
time painter, she ran into Bruce Welch (Shadow rhythm
guitarist and Olivia Newton-John promoter) and got an
autograph. Being Stateside it's unlikely that I'll
ever get one from him, especially since he says the
Shadows tour this year is definitely the Last Time.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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