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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Good Vibrations/Pet Sounds
From: Paul Bryant
2. Re: Dick St. John Photo
From: Phil Milstein
3. The Band
From: Steve Harvey
4. Re: Brian Wilson/BBs homages
From: Steve Harvey
5. Re: The Band
From: Art Longmire
6. influences
From: Alan Zweig
7. Re: Left Banke 45 on Camerica
From: Steve Harvey
8. Re: "The White Whale Story"
From: Art Longmire
9. If I Were the Carpenters. . . .
From: Steve Harvey
10. Re: "The White Whale Story"
From: Mark T
11. Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"
From: Richard Williams
12. Re: Left Banke / Cherry People's "And Suddenly"
From: Art Longmire
13. Re: (Why) Brackets?
From: Ayn Rand 4fr
14. Happy New Year
From: Ray
15. Re: Gilbert O'Sullivan
From: Ayn Rand 4fr
16. Influence in general
From: Peter Kearns
17. Austin Roberts
From: Anthony James
18. Beatles influence/Badfinger
From: Peter Kearns
19. Re: Da Vee-Meister
From: Bob Celli
20. Avantis; Big Daddy
From: Mike Edwards
21. Re: (Why) Brackets?
From: Orion
22. Re: Music To Watch Girls By / Tony Velona
From: steveo
23. Re: Stereo 45s
From: Billy G. Spradlin
24. Dick St John
From: Bob Rashkow
25. Re: Stereo 45s
From: Billy G. Spradlin
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:25:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Good Vibrations/Pet Sounds
Eddy wrote:
> Good vibrations was meant for the unreleased Smile album
> and was actually the first track they started recording
> for the project. But since that one wasn't happening, it
> got released as a single and then wound up on Smiley Smile.
> As far as I know there was never mention of it being
> intended for Pet Sounds.
There's a section in the brilliantly researched "I
Just Wasn't Made for these Times: Brian Wilson and
the Making of Pet Sounds" by Charles Granata dealing
with this, called "The Song that Didn't Make It". Tony
Asher tells of Brian playing him the chords which
would eventually make up GV, and Asher writing lyrics
for an opening section. Asher says that it was one of
several unfinished songs, and as PS was being
assembled Asher realised GV wasn't going to be
completed. Granata says "Was Brian planning to include
GV on PS? At the time all of the Beach Boys begged him
to do so." He rightly says that GV has no more relevance
to the Pet Sounds concept as Sloop John B. Al Jardine is
quoted as saying "Brian was absolutely against putting
it on the album". And goes on to say that he and the
others were right in retrospect - and if PS had included
GV it would have been "a milestone for us". (So, Al, it
wasn't a milestone anyway? Huh? Hello?)
Brian never wanted to put GV on that record, but he did
list it for Smile of course (sorry, SMiLE). Which became
Smiley Smile (one of the all time best album titles).
pb
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:47:55 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Dick St. John Photo
Bob Celli wrote:
> I've posted a photo taken at a picnic I held on Memorial Day,
> 1987 for the tour going through my area in Ohio. The guests
> included, Bobby Vee, Brian Hyland, Tommy Roe, Dick and Sandy
> St. John (pictured) and Dickey Lee along with Bobby Vee's band,
> The Rockin' Ricochettes. Dick and Sandy St. John were exceptionally
> nice people and it was great fun for me and my family and a great
> time to kick back and relax for the artists. I've kept in touch
> with Dick and Sandy periodically and they were always most gracious.
> I'm sure Dick's great falsetto will be missed.
A remarkable photo, Bob -- thanks for sharing it with us. The
celebrants look more like office co-workers hanging out on
their day off than touring musicians who'd helped make the '60s
the amazing era that it was.
It's reassuring to hear that Dick was as nice a guy as he
seemed, although it also makes his untimely death that much
sadder. Do you know if he and Mary Lerner (I believe was her
name), the original Dee Dee, ended their collaboration as
friends or not, or remained in touch after her retirement?
--Phil M.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:18:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: The Band
That's strange because I also have a Band single on
Capitol where they wrote out everybody's name instead
of using The Band. Guess they hadn't settled on The
Band at that point and The Crackers had been vetoed by
Capitol.
Art Longmire wrote:
> Another sort of puzzling 45 I have is one by the Band
> on Capitol Records. It's their first single, "I Shall
> Be Released", but instead of the artist name being
> given as The Band, the name on the record is "Music
> From Big Pink". It makes me wonder if the group (or
> the record company) might have released some early
> copies of their first single under this name.
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:35:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Brian Wilson/BBs homages
Listen to the drums at the very end of the Flamin' Groovies
"Good Laugh Mun", pure Pet Sounds.
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:33:28 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: The Band
Stephane Rebeschini:
> Hi - The first single of "The Band" was released by
> "Robertson/Danko/Manuel/Hudson/Helm", this was before
> "The Band" became the group's name. "Music From Big Pink"
> was the name of their first LP. You can find everything
> you need to know (and much more!) about the Band there:
> http://theband.hiof.no/singles/index.html#the_band_1968-1978
Thanks, Stephane-I had been looking for a site that featured
the Band's 45 listings. As far as I can tell, my single is a
variation of the one you mentioned - it has "Music From Big
Pink" in large letters and does not have the individual group
members names listed on the label.
Art Longmire
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:39:45 -0500
From: Alan Zweig
Subject: influences
Stuart Miller:
>As for Brian's influence, I find this thread an interesting one. I am
>not a musician so it may well be that there are tons of examples of
>chords, phrases, lyrical feel, etc. on various records where one can
>point to a direct Wilson influence but if there are, the vast majority
>have passed me by.
>My judgement would be, does that sound like a BB's record? Very few
>records indeed have ever made that impact on me and my own
>interpretation of that would simply be that the BB's sound was very
>hard to copy.
I don't think anything is hard to copy. We had a Beach Boys
tribute band in our town back in the sixties who did a pretty
good job. And I think a lot of those guys who back up Brian
Wilson these days could do letter perfect imitations of the
sound even if Brian wasn't there to help out with the arrangements.
But I thought the original topic was "influence". Influence
does not necessarily lead to copying. In fact I think they're
completely separate things. And that's why influence is such
a difficult thing to talk about. A filmmaker can be heavily
influenced by music and literature. Can you see those influences
in their work? Well maybe but obviously it's not as simple as
spotting the things they "copied".
I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of contemporary bands who
have been influenced by sunshine pop or "harmony groups" of
the sixties. Some of them might say their primary influences
were The Free Design or The Association. Some of them might
name The Beach Boys. And at this point some of them might
say they were influenced by the High Llamas.
I can give you a few names of fairly obscure artists who
demonstrate a possible Pet Sounds influence, though I'm not
sure if any of them have actually heard the record in question.
The Heavy Blinkers, Hopeful Monster, Bill Ricchini, Cosmic
Rough Riders, The Sunshine Fix, The Happy Balloon (and other
artists on the Siesta label), Allen Clapp (perhaps more
influenced by Emmit Rhodes). I quite like The Pearlfishers
though you'd have to throw Bacharach and The Byrds in their
bag of influences.
But like I said, these are just the artists whose sound sort
of resembles the Beach Boys. That's not the same as influence.
I'm certain that current indie heroes Broken Social Scene were
influenced by the Beach Boys but it's not something you can
clearly hear.
Oh and about the Beta Band. If you saw High Fidelity, there's
a great scene where the John Cusack character turns on their
CD in his store and says to his employee "I will now sell five
copies of the Beta Band EP". To me the Beta Band sound more
like Belle and Sebastien than the Beach Boys but then again,
Belle and Sebastien were probably influenced by the Beach Boys
(who were just trying to copy The Four Freshmen - or the Four
Something - who for all I know were trying to copy a local band
that none of us ever got to hear.)
AZ
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:29:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Left Banke 45 on Camerica
There was a whole Left Banke LP released in the 70/80s.
I don't think Brown had anything to do with it. The
cover was a rather sad painting of a man and woman
on a subway car. I think that single came out with
a photo of a woman all dolled up.
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:49:34 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: "The White Whale Story"
Michael Edwards wrote:
> I recently received the Rev-ola (UK) CD, "Phantom Jukebox
> Vol. 1 – The White Whale Story" and after playing it a
> few times, I recommend it to members of this group.....
> The Liz Damon track is the best on the CD being a superb
> Pet Clark/Tony Hatch knock-off.
Hey, Mike!
I posted on the Liz Damon track "You're Falling In Love"
several weeks ago, I'm glad somebody else rates it so highly.
It never occurred to me to compare it to Pet Clark/Tony Hatch.
This CD is one I definitly would be interested in - I already
have the Varese White Whale CD. Speaking of White Whale B-sides,
one I really am looking for is "Superman" by the Clique.
Art Longmire
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:54:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: If I Were the Carpenters. . . .
Actually "We're Only Just Begun" started originally as
a bank commercial. That's where Richard Carpenter heard it.
Word went out to Paul Williams and his partner that the
Carps wanted to record it. They wrote the rest of it for
them. So the Carpenters were the first to do it.
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:01:47 -0000
From: Mark T
Subject: Re: "The White Whale Story"
Two compilations of White Whale rarities and why does neither
one have the single by Christmas Spirit which is The Turtles
and a young Linda Ronstadt? That's maybe the priciest and
rarest 45 in the catalogue.
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:09:02 +0000
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"
Simon White asked:
> But what about "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"? Who did
> the original of that? I have Little Richard's version but
> assume it's a blues standard...... Howling Wolf?"
"Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" was written by John Lee
Williamson, the first of the two bluesman to be known as
Sonny Boy Williamson (the second was born Rice Miller).
My favourite version is on the Chess album "Muddy Waters
-- Folk Singer". Muddy was 48 years old when he recorded
it in 1963; further comment would be superfluous. Rod
Stewart, by contrast, was barely out of his teens when he
covered it quite effectively as the A-side of his first
solo single, for Decca in (I think) 1964.
Richard Williams
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:38:40 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Left Banke / Cherry People's "And Suddenly"
Leslie Fradkin:
> Bert Sommer sang those tracks that you mention although Tommy
> did help write them.
Thanks for the information on this 45, I've had it for many
years and never knew that Bert Sommer was the singer on these
songs. As I mentioned earlier, I am a huge Left Banke fan and
when I purchased "Ivy Ivy" I had only heard their first two
singles. Although I absolutely love "Ivy" I must admit I'm not
a big fan of "And Suddenly"...it just seems a bit too commercial
to me (apologies to those who like this tune!) I also have several
copies of the Cherry People version and don't really like it either
-but I love the b-side, "Imagination" which to me is a terrific song.
I remember hearing or reading somewhere that "Ivy Ivy" was released
at the same time as another "Left Banke" release by the remaining
members of the band after Michael Brown had left-I think they were
pushing "Desiree" at the same time.
Speaking of Bert Sommer, I have a 45 by him on Buddah records-I had
it for years and never knew until recently that he was connected in
any way with the Left Banke.
Art Longmire
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:23:04 -0000
From: Ayn Rand 4fr
Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets?
Bingo! I'm a songwriter (albeit merely striving to become
professional), and Glenn just said what I did in essence.
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:10:21 -0000
From: Ray
Subject: Happy New Year
Happy New Year to all the members of Spectropop.
What a great group of posters!!!
Also, a special Happy Birthday today to Reparata....
Ray
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:19:01 -0000
From: Ayn Rand 4fr
Subject: Re: Gilbert O'Sullivan
I never cared for CLAIRE, but I have always thought ALONE
AGAIN (NATURALLY) a great, long-lined melody. I know next
to nothing about Gilbert O'Sullivan, but his authorship of
this tune tells me something about his talent. A long melody
that hangs together as a unit requires the deepest sort of
musical thinking.
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:15:13 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: Influence in general
Phil M:
> Neither the artist nor the audience is necessarily even
> aware of it, but that influence exists all the same.
Absolutely! Fledgling songwriters/producers often spend
years overtly going through the mill of taking direct
influence from a number of things. Once you can get past
that and your influences are assimilated subconsciously
without you even having to think about it, is when you've
really hit on something, especially if what you end up with
is unique. The individual/individuals that achieve this are
the luckiest people alive, commercially successful or not.
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:32:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Anthony James
Subject: Austin Roberts
Would like to get some of Austin Robert's recordings for our
oldies radio show. Can anyone tell me where to get them.
Anthony James
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:25:37 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: Beatles influence/Badfinger
Mike McKay wrote:
> 2. Badfinger had the last of their four major Top 40 hits,
> all of which were very Beatles-sounding, in 1972.
This would fall in a slightly different category I would think.
I'm not convinced of how overtly Beatle-sounding Badfinger were.
Again, it's that 'influence' thing. The literal involvement of
McCartney/Harrison unavoidably gave them a Beatle 'bent' as it
were, and may well have been a double-edged sword when you consider
that Badfinger in a way were tainted by the Beatle presence and
could very well have flourished without them (and indeed had already
existed as the Iveys) in a way that someone like Mary Hopkin could not.
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 01:03:05 -0000
From: Bob Celli
Subject: Re: Da Vee-Meister
Albabe Gordon wrote:
> Re: Bobby Vee. My two bits worth:
> If you like Bobby, you should check out the Liberty/EMI
> reissues from '91 and '92: "Bobby Vee Meets the Crickets"
> and "I Remember Buddy Holly?" I think they're pretty groovy.
> Nice but tame Rockabilly. They're no Johnny Burnette Trio,
> but not many are.
albabe,
Thanks for the comments on those two Vee reissues. Those are
my favorites as they were my first two liner note projects.
The funny part about those two cds is how they came to be issued.
There weren't any plans to do those projects until Ron Furmanek
and Steve Kolanjian, the two people most responsible for the
"Legendary Masters Series", were present at a sales meeting in
NYC that happened to involve the head of EMI. The talk at the
meeting centered around the success of the play "Buddy". EMI's
head honcho lamented, "I wish we had some product with the Buddy
Holly theme!". Well, Ron and Steve immediately brought up the two
Bobby Vee albums and the guy said, "Let's get them out!" So there
we were with two more projects.
It had always been one of my ambitions to get Bobby's 1960 Clovis
session released and also dig out any unreleased tracks from the
1961 Vee/Crickets sessions. We succeeded in doing both! There was
a lot of raw material in the unreleased Vee/Crickets tracks and
some fun stuff in the Clovis recordings which included Vi Petty on
the keyboards and the Picks doing background vocals. Those were
two interesting projects!
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 01:17:23 -0000
From: Mike Edwards
Subject: Avantis; Big Daddy
Steve Stanley writes:
>Formed in 1965 in Sunbury, Pennsylvania, the band was known
> as the Avantis before adopting the more whimsical-sounding
> name Sundae Train....Personnel consisted of chief conductor
> Joel Cherry, Bill Gheen, John Morgan, Galen Ramsey and
> Steve Fecker.
The Avantis – now there's a group, or maybe two. A group named
the Avantis cut a superb surf instrumental, "Wax `Em Down" for
Chancellor Records in 1963. This was re-issued on a Pittsburgh
label, Astra, sometime in the 60s. According to Surf Instrumental
guru, John Blair, the group included Pat & Lolly Vegas (later of
Redbone fame). In the same year, the Chess Records subsidiary,
Argo, put out the Avantis' original version of "Keep On Dancin'",
later a hit for the Gentrys. Is this the same group? The Gentrys
of course included Jimmy Hart who was later a manager in the World
Wrestling Federation before it became known as the WWE.
Which brings me to:
Phil Milstein:
>Speaking of Big Daddy
Yeh, whatever happened to him? I seem to recall he held the UK
heavyweight title before they closed down Kent Walton's TV show.
Mike (who can't wait to hear a High Llamas and/or a Klaatu track
on musica – just to see what all the fuss is about)
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:20:35 -0600
From: Orion
Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets?
Paul Bryant wrote:
> So the question is... why was there this rash of silly
> brackets in song titles in the 60s? Who started it (anyway)?
Whoa, that is a tall order. I believe there are some
Christmas hymns that used parentheses. I am sure
someone here though will have an answer on the first
record with them on it.
Orion
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:41:10 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: Music To Watch Girls By / Tony Velona
Sorry to say, Tony Velona is no longer with us...
He was a great talent.
Steveo
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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 02:06:23 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s
> Then on LP, you had the reverse of this phenomenon -- at least
> with The Left Banke and some other Mercury/Smash acts. I have
> a copy of the "Walk Away Renée/Pretty Ballerina" album that
> says mono on the label and the jacket but that in fact plays
> stereo. I'm not sure if this album was ever actually issued in
> mono or not, and it's my understanding that this was the case
> with several other releases at this time when "playable on mono
> phonographs" stereo LPs first came out.
I have read Mercury's pressing plant was ran soooo cheaply that
when the mono mother plates (made to press LP's) wore out they'd
just switch to the stereo mother plate instead of making another
mono mother and press "mono" albums with it. So mono buyers got a
bonus or a LP that wore out very quickly on a cheap mono phonograph.
I have a Walker Bros album on Smash where the first side is mono,
the second side is Stereo!
> I also believe I have some examples of unscrupulous smaller
> labels releasing mono albums with a big sticker saying "This
> record is playable on STEREO phonographs". Of course, this was
> always the case with mono records! It was when you went the
> other way and tried to play a stereo record with a mono cartridge
> that you came to grief (until the compatible process was developed).
I saw that red sticker on many cut-out bin records even into the
early 80s on old 60s albums (mono MGM and Liberty). Just a way to
screw people into thinking they were buying a stereo LP if they
werent looking close!
Billy
http://listen.to/jangleradio
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:48:24 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Dick St John
Very sad to hear that Dick St John passed. Dick and Dee Dee
were such a vital part of the early and mid-6Ts pop scene.
Bobster
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 02:13:04 -0000
From: Billy G. Spradlin
Subject: Re: Stereo 45s
Did a little bit of checking and the first all-stereo 45
from 1967 I have is the Lemon Pipers "Green Tamborine"
(Buddah 23), which hit #1 on Billboard December 23, 1967.
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