Spectropop - Digest Number 1211

• From: Spectropop Group
• Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004

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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
________________________________________________________________________


There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Stereo pressings
           From: Michael Fishberg 
      2. Arkade
           From: Mark T 
      3. Re: The Bayou, DC.
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
      4. Question for Austin
           From: Mark 
      5. Re: The Avantis
           From: Tom 
      6. Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"
           From: Richard Havers 
      7. Re: Stalker rock
           From: Chris 
      8. Selling Out The Hits
           From: Steve Harvey 
      9. Jan & Lorraine info needed
           From: JJ 
     10. Ron Dante Interveiw <> Great Pic
           From: charlieberg123 
     11. "Wouldn't It Be Nice"
           From: Watson Macblue 
     12. Re: Grass Roots / Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds
           From: Glenn 
     13. Re: If I Were the Carpenters. . . .
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
     14. Re: (Why) Brackets
           From: Stewart Mason 
     15. Re: (Why) Brackets?
           From: Gary Spector 
     16. Re: Kim Fowley
           From: Peter Kearns 
     17. Re: Ron Dante
           From: Laura Pinto 
     18. Latest Lance Monthly
           From: Mike Dugo 
     19. Re: Left Banke
           From: Tom Taber 


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Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 05:40:12 -0800 (PST)
   From: Michael Fishberg 
Subject: Re: Stereo pressings

Billy G.Spradlin wrote:

> I have read Mercury's pressing plant was ran soooo cheaply that 
> when the mono mother plates (made to press LP's) wore out they'd 
> just switch to the stereo mother plate instead of making another 
> mono mother and press "mono" albums with it. So mono buyers got a 
> bonus or a LP that wore out very quickly on a cheap mono phonograph. 
> I have a Walker Bros album on Smash where the first side is mono, 
> the second side is Stereo!

You're right about Mercury being cheapo.  I have several LPs that 
purport to be mono (including most on the Fontana imprint, actually 
a subsidiary of Dutch Philips in the UK).  

Examples are: The Reg Guest Syndicate "Undergound" and both Blossom 
Dearie LPs.  Incidentally the Left Banke LPs on Mercury were not 
true stereo, so it didn't matter anyway!

Michael Fishberg






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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:13:42 -0000
   From: Mark T 
Subject: Arkade

Just curious as to what you guys chose to record instead of
"Don't Pull Your Love."  By the sounds of it, it seems like 
Arkade was an actual group as opposed to a studio group. 
Austin, how many of those groups that you recorded under were 
actual groups and how many were just studio bands?




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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:42:25 -0000
   From: Jeff Lemlich 
Subject: Re: The Bayou, DC.

Austin Roberts:

> Finally, my buddy from Cheverly, Md. reminded me it was the 
> Telstars that I liked so much at the Bayou. More mid 60s, I 
> think.

Yes, definitely mid-60s.  The Telstars recorded "Hold Tight"/
"Keep On Running" on Columbia 44141 in May 1967 -- plus an 
earlier single, "Love Is A River"/"Sweet Young Angel," on 
Monumental 517 in 1965.

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com 




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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:53:56 GMT
   From: Mark 
Subject: Question for Austin

Hi Austin!

I was just wondering - what did you think of Dickey Lee's cover 
of your hit "Rocky"? I thought it was pretty good.

Best,

Mark 



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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:44:34 -0000
   From: Tom 
Subject: Re: The Avantis

I wonder if they took their name from the legendary Studebaker 
Avanti.  I think it was introduced in '62.  It's certainly a 
cool name for a group.  Sounds much better than The Studebakers. 
LOL.  

Tom




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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:50:43 +0000
   From: Richard Havers 
Subject: Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"

Richard Williams wrote:
> "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" was written by John Lee
> Williamson, the first of the two bluesman to be known as
> Sonny Boy Williamson (the second was born Rice Miller).
> My favourite version is on the Chess album "Muddy Waters
> -- Folk Singer". Muddy was 48 years old when he recorded 
> it in 1963; further comment would be superfluous. Rod
> Stewart, by contrast, was barely out of his teens when he
> covered it quite effectively as the A-side of his first
> solo single, for Decca in (I think) 1964.

Richard, totally agree with you about Muddy's version. I would 
urge anyone who hasn't heard it to seek out Muddy's 'Folk 
Singer' album. It is stunning.

A little bit more history on 'Schoolgirl'.

The song that we all think of today as 'Good Morning Little 
Schoolgirl' was first released as 'Good Morning School Girl'. 
Recorded at Sonny Boy Williamson’s first recording session for 
RCA's Bluebird label on May 5th 1937 at the Leland Hotel in 
Aurora Illinois, accompanied by Big Joe Williams and Robert Lee 
McCoy on guitars. Later versions have not only been confused 
about the title, the writer's credit has also been given to the 
second Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller).

The song became staple diet for both Chicago Bluesmen and 
British Blues bands in the 1950s and 60s. It has even been 
called “the first rock and roll record”, but then again so have 
many others (not a call to reopen the debate!). Whatever the 
case, Good Morning Little School Girl can certainly claim to 
have been at the birth.

In September 1959 Alan Lomax was travelling through the South 
with a reel-to-reel recorder, much like he did with his Father 
two decades earlier. Lomax had been directed to Fred McDowell's 
house in Como, Mississippi, Fred being well known in the area 
from his playing at weekend fish fries and parties. Lomax 
recorded 14 tracks with Fred, including 'Good Morning Little 
Schoolgirl', most considered these seminal recordings to be 
amongst Fred’s best. This pre-empted McDowell's ‘discovery’ by 
the ‘folkies’.

The song actually made the British charts, although it has not 
charted in the USA by any artists. The Yardbirds made No.44 in 
November 1964 and spent a month on the charts. Their version has 
lyrical similarities to the original but it is in fact 
melodically different. The writers credit on some Yardbirds 
records is Demarais, although on others it is credited to 
Williamson - despite being the melody used on their version 
credited to Demarais. This was the original line-up of the 
Yardbirds, featuring Eric Clapton on lead guitar and Keith Relf 
on vocals.

The SBW version became the A-side of 19 year old Rod Stewart’s 
first ever single for the Decca label in October '64 . After 
busking in Europe teenager Rod returned to the UK and joined 
Jimmy Powell and the Five Dimensions. He then moved to London 
becoming the harp player with John Baldry’s Hoochie Coochie Men, 
before recording Good Morning Little Schoolgirl as his Decca 
debut.

Richard



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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 08:40:23 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
   From: Chris 
Subject: Re: Stalker rock

Stewart Mason wrote:
> ... "One Way Or Another" (just about the most blatant song about 
> stalking ever to become a big hit)

It's funny that I should be reading this, and Phil M.'s reply, at 
the same time that my CD of "Red Hot + Blue" was playing the U2 
version of "Night and Day."  Talk about "Stalker Rock"!  

Of course, that version always struck me as *deliberately* creepy, 
as turning the singer into a figure out some '70s nightmare like 
Abel Ferrara's "Fear City."  If you can't be sublime like Astaire 
in "Gay Divorcee," after all, you might as well be creepy ...

Chris



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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:27:47 -0800 (PST)
   From: Steve Harvey 
Subject: Selling Out The Hits

Mark Frumento wrote:
> I always thought "Someday My Prince Will Come" would have 
> made a great commercial for a one-hour photo operation... 
> "some day my prints will come..."

How about a bank commercial that uses the marginally
influencial Brian Wilson's "Time To Get A Loan"!



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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:04:13 -0000
   From: JJ 
Subject: Jan & Lorraine info needed

**Can anyone CONFIRM that the girl duo, JAN & LORRAINE, who rel 
one LP on US ABC, early 69, "GYPSY PEOPLE", were in fact from 
the US? I´ve read that they toured the States and that they 
might be from the Detroit area?? Any info, MUCH appreciated!





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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:26:28 -0000
   From: charlieberg123 
Subject: Ron Dante Interveiw <> Great Pic

> New @ S'pop
> THEN & NOW: A RON DANTE RETROSPECTIVE
> by Laura Pinto
> "Ron Dante is best known as the lead singer for The Archies,
> but that's only a single entry in his show-business resume.
> Ron was multitasking well before the word made its way into
> the vernacular - his career has more facets than a five-carat
> diamond..." (Laura Pinto)
> For the full story, click here:
> http://www.spectropop.com/RonDante/index.htm

Great pic of Ron Dante & Donna Marie performing in the only live 
Archies appearance I've seen!!!!




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Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:12:03 -0800 (PST)
   From: Watson Macblue 
Subject: "Wouldn't It Be Nice"

Paul Bryant writes:
> There's a section in the brilliantly researched "I Just Wasn't 
> Made for these Times: Brian Wilson and the Making of Pet 
> Sounds" by Charles Granata dealing with this, called "The Song 
> that Didn't Make It".

Brilliantly researched up to a point.  Long-term listers here and 
elsewhere will know that this is a personal bugbear of mine, but 
I think a serious point lurks here.  The Granata book is great  - 
really very good indeed - on the history of the sessions and the 
complex circumstances surrounding the creation of this wonderful 
album, but it falls heavily flat on its face once it starts 
talking about the music itself.  Then, the text descends into the 
worst pseudo-musical babble.  Words like "tonalities," "harmonics" 
and "dynamics" fly around with no conceivable attachment to what 
they actually mean.  At one point, we're told Caroline No is in 
either C or C sharp, depending on which speed the master is played.  
It's in neither.  The whole musical force of the song rests on its 
alternation of the major and Lydian forms of *F*, which is all of a 
fourth higher.  The lack of a key signature doesn't automatically 
mean C: look at the *music*.  Similarly, we're told elsewhere that 
the bass is playing in a different key in God Only Knows, which is, 
well, bizarrely untrue.  The one truly huge musical difference 
between Brian Wilson and just about everyone else in rock at the 
time - his penchant for 6/4 chords in what can only be called the 
High Noon of the Root Triad - is never even touched upon.

Chuck Granata never descends to the near-surreal musical gibbering 
of David Leaf (who once famously, revealingly and meaninglessly 
described a single chord as having a "fugue-like feel" - and *no-
one edited this out*!), but a genuinely musical analysis of Brian 
Wilson's music would be very valuable.  Granata is also the only 
mainstream writer I know who comes close to admitting the 
melancholy truth that when we talk about Brian Wilson's genius, 
we're talking in the past tense.  To grimly paraphrase Nietzsche 
(now, *there's* someone you don't see often in Spectropop!), the 
rest is cowardice.

Watson



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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:41:42 -0000
   From: Glenn 
Subject: Re: Grass Roots / Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds

Well, Austin, I was actually going to bring most of this up to *you*, 
since I am a big fan of the Grass Roots, and I am quite familiar with 
your very close associations with them. So thanks for taking care of 
most of the verbiage for me!

One thing you said that I did NOT know was that Arkade was also 
offered "Don't Pull Your Love". I spoke extensively with Price and 
Walsh, and that was one little fact they never mentioned to me. 
(Perhaps they were embarrassed?) Also, the Roots' lead singer, Rob 
Grill, told me that after the Grass Roots turned down the song - and 
Rob made very clear that HE was not responsible for turning down the 
song - he wasn't present at the time that Steve Barri played it for 
two other members of the group, who thought it was "too light" for 
the Grass Roots - Rob swears he would have green-lighted the song had 
he heard it - Barri offered the song to Hamilton, Joe Frank & 
Reynolds. I guess Rob just didn't know that Arkade had had a shot at 
it, too. Rob told me that the first time he heard  "Don't Pull Your 
Love" was on the RADIO, and he instantly thought it was a smash, and 
knowing that Barri was working with H, JF & R, his first reaction was 
to get very upset, and he called up Steve Barri and asked him, "Hey, 
why didn't we get a shot at that song first?" At which point Barri 
told him, "Well, you did. I played it for Warren and Dennis, and they 
didn't like it!"

So, if it's any consolation, you weren't the only singer upset at 
having passed on "Don't Pull Your Love (Out)". But, hey, you 
certainly have my sympathy, and I even share your disappointment, as 
I thought Arkade had the potential for big things. Of course, as you 
said, when the guy who was nicknamed "The King Midas of AM Pop" of 
the late 60's and early 70's (you can read my bio of him at 
http://home.att.net/~souldeep69/biosbarri.html) rolls his eyes when 
you turn down a song, yes, you guys just might have been able to get 
a clue at that point. But I still understand where you were coming 
from, and remain sympathetic.

On the other hand, that cockiness you spoke of, while it might have 
cheated you out of a hit, was also fully understandable. As you 
pointed out, Price and Walsh had already written some tremendous 
smashes for the Grass Roots, as well as your first charting song as 
Arkade, and had every reason to believe they were capable of writing 
more hits. And as far as I'm concerned, their song "Sing Out the Love 
(In My Heart)", which you recorded with them under the Arkade 
moniker, had all the earmarks of a smash hit, as well as a good dose 
of that catchy Grass Roots sound. It's simply inexplicable to me why 
that single didn't make it. You did a great job on the lead vocal, 
and Dan Walsh, who was also a very good singer, contributed some nice 
ad libs. Plus you had the same team in place as the Grass Roots and 
H,JF&R: Steve Barri co-producing; Sid Feller, who often worked with 
Jimmie Haskell and the Roots, arranging; and, I would guess, the very 
same studio musicians such as Hal Blaine, Joe Osborne, etc.

But, you may be forgetting this: Arkade also had the seeds of its own 
doom in place whether they scored a hit or not. Because unlike you, 
Price and Walsh were not willing to tour to support the group. They 
didn't want to uproot themselves from their homes and families in 
L.A., and were really content to stay behind the scenes. You, on the 
other hand, had much stronger ambitions of being a pop star, and were 
willing to put the energy behind it. And fortunately for you, and for 
all of us fans of yours, you eventually made that happen.

Now, before I get to the songs you wrote for the Grass Roots, I'd 
just like to mention a personal favorite of mine of one of your 
songs, released under your name - and that is "Life Is For Living", 
which was also released on Dunhill, also produced by Steve Barri (and 
ditto etc. etc. for all the other Grass Roots credits), with the 
exception being that the song was your own composition.  And except 
for the female backing vocals, "Life Is For Living" practically 
sounded more like the Grass Roots than the Grass Roots themselves! 
Those HORNS, man!!! And such a catchy, upbeat tune! I think that may 
be my favorite thing you ever did.

Now, on to the songs you wrote for the Grass Roots. As the curator of 
the world's premiere Grass Roots site (all modesty aside), I can tell 
you not only that your song with Chris Welch, "One Word", was on the 
Grass Roots' "Move Along" album, but is also one of the most beloved 
songs on that album by many, many fans. It is the song I probably get 
the most comments about from that album, and also the one song about 
which, more than any other Roots album track, a lot of people 
ask, "Why on earth wasn't this a single?"

Had it been a single, you may have secured yourself a very 
significant hit with the Grass Roots. It's a shame that it wasn't put 
out as a single, because I am very much with all those other fans who 
feel that "One Word" was a great song!  I know that you did release 
your own version of it as a single, on Chelsea, I believe, and that, 
unfortunately, it didn't make it. I felt that the Grass Roots' 
arrangement of it was a little "punchier" than yours, but you did 
fine work on the lead vocal.

Speaking of "arrangement", I'd just like to happily note here that it 
was the very same Jimmie Haskell who arranged all of the Grass Roots 
hits that arranged the strings on your own smash, "Something's Wrong 
With Me". And he did, I think you'll agree with me, a very 
exceptional job.

Finally, on to "Stealing Love In The Night", which, with all this 
talk about parenthetical titles we've been having in the group, you 
might be able to explain to me why it was released as "Stealin' Love 
(In the Night)". As you said, it was the very last thing the Grass 
Roots released on Dunhill. Now, once again, you have informed me of a 
situation I didn't know about. It was always my assumption that the 
Grass Roots were dropped from Dunhill BECAUSE that song was their 
third single in a row that wasn't a hit, and that they then signed 
with Haven. But your information about them having already signed to 
the new label when the single was released puts it in a very 
different light.

So, with no hope of an album to follow the single, I guess Dunhill 
dropped all promotion. And with the Grass Roots on a two-year losing 
streak, their single certainly needed the promotion at the time. 
Haven certainly went all-out on getting behind their first Grass 
Roots single, "Mamacita", which managed to chart but was stopped cold 
when it was banned by about half the pop radio stations in the U.S., 
something that no amount of promotion could fight.

But back to "Stealin' Love" - damn - that really was an unlucky break 
for you! IMO, the song had much of the charm and appeal of some of 
the Grass Roots' biggest hits, and certainly would have had a good 
chance of being a hit had it been pushed. I even tried to convince 
Gary Stewart of Rhino Records to include it on their Grass Roots 
Anthology set, but he was of the opinion that nothing on Dunhill 
after "Love Is What You Make It" (by our old friends Price and Walsh) 
was worth including. For the record, I strongly disagree. 

So, yes, I feel really bad for you that the events at the time 
precluded "Stealin' Love (In the Night)" from getting its shot at 
becoming a bona fide hit. As the old boxing saying goes, it "coulda 
been a contender".

And you thought YOU were verbose? Then again, I'm a songwriter, too. 
Just not a pro.

And a very Happy New Year to you and everyone else at Spectropop.
Glenn 

Golden Grass - The Grass Roots Fan Page
http://home.att.net/~souldeep69/index.html



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Message: 13
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:47:25 -0000
   From: Jeff Lemlich 
Subject: Re: If I Were the Carpenters. . . .

Frumento wrote:
> I always thought "Someday My Prince Will Come" would have made a 
> great commercial for a one-hour photo operation... "some day my 
> prints will come..."

I was waiting for some loan company to rewrite "Alone" by Heart 
as... (drumroll)... "how do I get you a loan"...

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com



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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:53:39 -0800 (PST)
   From: Stewart Mason 
Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets

Glenn writes:
> Fact is, songwriters have a right to call their songs
> whatever they want, and copyright them that way. And
> get PAID for them that way. So, in most cases, record
> companies DO NOT have the right to change a song
> title, without specific permission from the songwriter
> and/or publisher, but they have a right to append
> parenthetical phrases to them, or even to put the real
> title in brackets and substitute a more easily-recognized 
> title.

During his Monkees days (and after), Mike Nesmith was
fond of putting random titles on his songs, evocative
phrases that don't actually appear anywhere in the
lyrics ("Tapioca Tundra," "Papa Gene's Blues," etc.).
The folks at Colgems apparently used to get rather
honked off at this practice, and according to himself,
once lectured him that hit songs had titles which
appeared regularly in the chorus and lyrics that were
"good clean fun."  His response was the song "Good
Clean Fun," which doesn't even have a chorus and the
title of which, naturally, never appears in the
lyrics.

S



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Message: 15
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:36:06 -0700
   From: Gary Spector 
Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets?

Hello PB,

Interesting question (certainly for me).

I too have wondered why they were used but never knew who to ask 
(until now). Looking back, I guess I could have asked my father 
since he was very big in the 60's and still very well known today 
(for other reasons now).

I am sure you'll remember these titles:
(The Best Part Of) Breakin' Up - The Ronettes
Woman In Love (With You) - The Ronettes
He Hit Me (It Felt Like A Kiss) - The Crystals
(Today I Met) The Boy I'm Gonna Marry - Darlene Love
(I Love You) For Sentimental Reasons - The Righteous Brothers
A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knockin' Everyday) - Ike & Tina Turner

As for the best answer (so far), I think Glenn has the answer that 
makes the most sence (to me).

Specter
Not just another P.S. fan....



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Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:19:19 -0000
   From: Peter Kearns 
Subject: Re: Kim Fowley

S'pop Projects wrote:
> New @ S'pop Recommends
> 'Impossible But True: The Kim Fowley Story' (Ace CDCHD 888)
> "Parents, lock up your daughters -- Kim Fowley is back in town.
> ... The fact that he was, either variously or simultaneously, a
> rock'n'roll anarchist, Dadaist, hustler, B.S. artist, Sybarite,
> namedropper and foole should not deter us from the realization
> that Kim Fowley was also one talented mofo." (Phil Milstein)
> For Phil's full review, click here:
> http://www.spectropop.com/recommends/index2004.htm#KimFowley

Haha. Kim certainly was/is a personality; no doubt about it. Some 
of his 60s tracks are fascinating and the arrangements are great. 
'Stranger In The Sky' is a good example. He's actually a very 
interesting lyricist too. We wrote a bunch of songs together in 
the 80s; the lyrics of which I'd describe as kind of bent cliches - 
wordy, but colourful.

Peter.



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Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:57:59 -0000
   From: Laura Pinto 
Subject: Re: Ron Dante

Joe Nelson wrote:
> About a year and a half ago, I'd seen a message in the S'pop 
> archives indicating that Ron was the lead singer on the Definitive 
> Rock Chorale's great "Mirrors of Your Mind". I contacted Ron 
> through a mutual friend and he said he was sorry, but he couldn't 
> remember the record. Damn.

Hi Joe,

I'm not personally familiar with that track nor have I ever seen it 
listed on any Ron Dante discographies, but that doesn't mean 
anything, nor does the fact that Ron couldn't recall it.  This man 
literally did so much recording under so many different names (many 
times he didn't know what name the record[s] would be released under) 
that it's possible he's simply forgotten.  I once sent him an MP3 of 
a song that obviously had him on leads, and until he heard it, he 
hadn't remembered it existed.  Ron was a busy bee in the 60's and 
early 70's!

Laura



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Message: 18
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:08:41 -0600
   From: Mike Dugo 
Subject: Latest Lance Monthly

If you'd like to check out the now-posted January 2004 issue of 
"The Lance Monthly" that contains a lot of rare '50s and '60s 
photos of The Crickets, Bobby Vee, et al, in the Jerry Naylor 
interview, swing by http://www.lancerecords.com

IN THIS ISSUE: - Up Close with Jerry Naylor (Vocalist for Crickets 
in Early ‘60s; major ‘50s rock ‘n' roll pioneer – Up Close with 
Larry Knechtel (High-profile L.A. sessionist; past member of Bread 
and Duane Eddy band - An Interview with Robert Stevenson 
(Performed with one of Columbus, Ohio’s premier bands during the 
‘60s) - Paterson’s Jump, Jive, and Harmonize (Reviews of releases 
by Gandalf the Grey, Massimo Aiello, The Prisoners, Blue Max, The 
Vivisectors, The Astroglides, and Various Artists) – The Lance 
Monthly Pick of the Month ("Channel Surfin with . . . The 
Astroglides").

Mike Dugo
60sgaragebands.com



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Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:17:05 -0800 (PST)
   From: Tom Taber 
Subject: Re: Left Banke

Michael Fishberg wrote:
> Incidentally the Left Banke LPs on Mercury were not true 
> stereo, so it didn't matter anyway!

My college roommate had a "mono" 1st Left Banke lp. about the 
only album he owned, and he had played it repeatedly on his 
parents' 1955 console with a 7 pound stylus.  I discovered while 
listening to it on headphones that, beneath the tons of crackle, 
it was really stereo, and I'd swear on the beauty of "Pretty
Ballerina" that it wasn't reprocessed mono.  

Tom Taber



-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------



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