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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Ed & Sam Chalpin, His Father the Pop Singer
From: Michael Greenberg
2. Iveys
From: Eddy
3. Sally Go Round The Roses
From: John Lang
4. Re: Girls
From: Paul Bryant
5. Re: Grapefruit; Iveys
From: Eddy
6. Most Inept Hit
From: Paul Bryant
7. Re: Sally Go 'Round the Roses
From: Dan Hughes
8. Re: Answer Songs
From: Paul Balser
9. Re: Melinda Marx
From: Fred Clemens
10. Re: Words and melodies
From: Paul Bryant
11. Re: Changed titles
From: Fred Clemens
12. Re: Avanti
From: Watson Macblue
13. Re: Walter Scott Murder Book
From: John Fox
14. Re: Grapefruit
From: Mike McKay
15. Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
From: Albin Lindström
16. Re: Melinda Marx (and Bill)
From: Tom Taber
17. Tim Gilbert / Austin Roberts to Musica
From: Clark Besch
18. Re: Rundgren / Nyro
From: Lou
19. Re: Worst 45 pressings
From: Richard Williams
20. Re: Medicine Man & the real Napoleon XIV
From: John Fox
21. Re: Tuesday Weld Ya Ya
From: Phil Milstein
22. Re: Answer Songs / Gerri Granger @ Musica
From: Mick Patrick
23. Brian and his imitators
From: Watson Macblue
24. Re: masochist lyrics AND Vance-Pockriss query
From: Hugo M
25. Re: Bobby Vee "Beautiful People"
From: Austin Roberts
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:54:57 -0000
From: Michael Greenberg
Subject: Re: Ed & Sam Chalpin, His Father the Pop Singer
Excerpt from: http://www.spectropop.com/SamChalpin/index.htm
> Some guy named Mick Patrick has asked me to provide a bit of
> background an old LP, 'My Father The Pop Singer' by Sam
> Chalpin, for which I have the dubious honor of being the
> recording engineer. Dubious for sure, and not entirely accurate,
> since many of the tracks we used for this travesty were not
> engineered by me. But yes, I must confess, I was there, I got
> the credit, and I have lived to tell the tale.
>
> I wrote about this album once before, to Spectropop founder Jamie
> Le Page, may he rest in echo. Another contact, Michael Greenberg,
> told me he actually owned a copy . . . and liked it! To each his
> own, I guess. So, out of pity for his plight, I sent him one of
> my last few copies of that misconceived and mistakenly released
> monstrosity. Because? Because he wanted to make sure he would
> always have a back-up. God have mercy!
Thanks for your wonderful and informative article, Mike. I love the
way you write! Yes, I admit it, I did ask you for another copy of
this record - an "upgrade" of sorts - and I asked for the story
behind it.
Well, "be careful what you wish for", as they say! I never imagined
this was someone really recording his own dad. It's a nutty record
that I dug because of its incongruity, but man, what an ugly (yet
very well told!) story of exploitation!
Yuck! (and thanks!!)
Michael
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:16:43 +0100
From: Eddy
Subject: Iveys
Austin Roberts
Re: Ivey's; Grapefruit
> Eddie, Thank you my friend. I still think about how good
> "Maybe Tomorrow" was.
Indeed it was ! Does anybody have the scoop on what happened
to the Iveys LP ? Cancelled in the UK, no US issue or anywhere
else for that matter, except an extremely limited amount of
copies of Germany and Italy.
Eddy
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:44:49 -0800
From: John Lang
Subject: Sally Go Round The Roses
Carl asks:
> Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering? "Sally Go Round
> the Roses" by the Jaynetts. Tuff Records was right! How could a
> song that sounded this bad on 45 ever make the top 10?
You have to remember that the kind of audio equipment people
were listening to in those days was very primitive by modern
standards. So peoples' expectations regarding the technical
brilliance of the recorded product were much less acute than
they are today. Not only that but most of the listening public
for pop music in those days had little or no training in classical
music, so the kind of offkey singing that you might find in
the Shirelles for example (which in my humble opinion contributes
greatly to their charm!) just didn't really register back then
as being 'bad'. There are a lot of people today, even highly
developed and commercially successful popular singers, who can't
appreciate this. They are totally brainwashed into thinking that
technical perfection is the be-all and end-all in recorded music.
Give me the Jaynetts anyday over any of them. They don't understand
the difference between Patti LaBelle and Whitney Houston or Mariah
Carey. BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Lang
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:29:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Girls
Phil Hall wrote:
> Tracey Dey is one of many others I've always
> wondered about. Is there a subgroup within
> Spectropop that specializes in the 60s girl groups?
Good idea, and a sub-sub group which specialises in
fantasies about The Shangri-Las.
pb
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:24:40 +0100
From: Eddy
Subject: Re: Grapefruit; Iveys
Orion:
> Aren't there at least two Grapefruit LPs?
Yup, there's Around Grapefruit (1968) and Deep Water (1969).
To make the story complete... there was also a 1971 "reunion"
single Sha Sha/Universal party on Deram, but although George
Alexander was still there, the rest of the "band" existed only
of Vanda & Young. Then there was also a single Get ready for
Love/Can I get to know you (Youngblood) which was released as
by Paintbox. It was also produced by Vanda & Young and since
it was written by George Alexander, it is assumed it was from
the same Grapefruit "reunion".
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:38:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Most Inept Hit
Carl asks:
> Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering?
> "Sally Go Round the Roses" by the Jaynetts.
> Tuff Records was right! How could a song that
> sounded this bad on 45 ever make the top 10?
Okay - what's your choice of the most badly performed
song ever to become a hit? No contest surely, it's got
to be Louie Louie by the Kingsmen - the drummer loses
the beat at one point.
However, my pick for "worst ever guitar solo in a
hit record" is "Lightnin' Strikes" by Lou Christie - a
favourite of mine - but just listen again to the solo
- you talk about One Note Sambas - here's the one note
guitar solo. So this is also the winner of the Most
Minimalist Solo of all time too.
pb
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:38:49 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round the Roses
Re: our recent discussion of Sally Go 'Round the Roses,
Rashkovsky suggested I go to the source, Artie Butler.
I did, and here's his story:
"Hi Dan,
Since I made the record, I have heard so many strange tales about it.
Everything from secret messages from Saturn in the lyric, ghosts etc.
There was nothing wrong with the equipment in the studio. I was going for
a very different sound. I recorded in mono one instrument at a time. I
played all of the instruments except the guitars. Each time I added
another layer, I went to another tape machine. I kept going from one
machine to the other and changed the EQ and the reverb (echo .. as we
called it back then in the Jurassic recording period) on each layer to
give it the strange sound. There was not much of a song to begin with, so
I felt I had to create something that would make it it's own thing. I had
this sound in my mind before I started. I remember the guy who asked me
to do it for him hated it and screamed that I wasted his money. He said I
would never work again and all of that kind of crap that everyone new has
to hear at least once. I told him I felt he was wrong, and that he should
listen to it for a few days. I tried to tell him that it was a different
kind of sounding record, and that the unique quality was what made it
work. He thought I was a moron. I brought the record to Leiber & Stoller.
They went crazy over it and offered to buy it from him and give him back
all of his money. When I told him that, he had different thoughts about
it. Soon after the record became a hit, I started getting calls to work
for other people. The guy never paid me any money for making the record,
but he did give me an arrangers credit. In retrospect, I did get paid. I
have been working ever since. He asked me to complete the "Sally" album
for him, but I told him he would have to pay me for the record which was
already a hit, before I would work for him again. He decided not to give
me any money and actually laughed in my face. I have not heard about
anything that he has done after that record. He actually had people
calling me to work for him using a different name. I guess everyone who
starts out in the business gets screwed once or twice in the beginning of
their career. In all of my years of being in the music business, that was
the only time I took a hit and never got paid.
I have been asked to make another updated version of it a few times.
However I never tried. I did not want to piss off the ghosts on Saturn. I
hope this explains the record to you. If you have any question, please
feel free to contact me.
Thanks.
Regards,
Artie Butler "
He sent this immediately afterwards:
"Hi Dan,
I left out the fact that I recorded it at 7 1/2 IPS on 2 AMPEX 350
tape machines. Each time I added another layer, the sound kept getting
more distant sounding due to the tape hiss. That is why I changed the EQ
and the reverb on each layer. It let the new layer "speak" over the
previous layer. The studio was called Broadway Recording Studios. It was
located in the Ed Sullivan Theater building. The same building that David
Letterman does his show in. The address was 1697 Broadway, located
between 53rd and 54th street. How could I forget that stuff. To be real
honest when I go to New York and drive or walk past the building, I do
get a little sentimental. How could I not?
Regards,
Artie Butler"
Fantastic story! So hows about some of you major league guys
write Artie and invite him to join our group? He would be a
fantastic addition, and I think he'd have a great time.....
---Dan, http://members.soltec.net/~dan (spiffy home page)
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:27:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Paul Balser
Subject: Re: Answer Songs
Mark:
> Add to the original list of answer songs: "Got a Job"
> by the Miracles (their first record, answer to--what else
> --the Silhouettes' "Get a Job").
Also add "I Found A Job". by theHeartbeats
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:08:59 -0000
From: Fred Clemens
Subject: Re: Melinda Marx
> There are 45s by Bill Marx on Vee Jay too and something tells me
> that he was a son of a Marx Brother. I'll have a look in my books.
Bill Marx is the son of Harpo.
Bill recorded a piano/Jazz oriented album for VJ Records in 1963,
with Harpo featured on the cover introducing Bill as "MY SON, THE
FOLK SWINGER".
Fred Clemens
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 04:08:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Words and melodies
John Sellards wrote:
> Of the two examples recently mentioned (Dylan &
> Napoleon XIV), those are both examples where the
> impact clearly comes from the performance and not
> from the melodic worth of the music."
Quite true, and we might also mention at this point
the thin but persistent trickle of talking records
which have been hits over the years, from Hank
Williams' Luke the Drifter monologues, via "Ringo" by
Lorne Greene (a No 1! the only talking No 1?) and I
think "If" by Telly Savalas (eugh), and all the way
through to the amazing revival of talking records
called rap. From Luke the Drifter to Eminem!
John continues:
> The rock and roll era shifted the importance from
> the composition to the ultimate performance, so after
> years of hits that only really use about five notes
> for melody ("Sea Cruise" comes to mind) something like
> "Subterranean Homesick Blues" could be a popular record,
> when a tune with such limited melody would probably not
> have done much twenty years previous."
I think what's missing here is the influence of the
blues, a music which never claimed much in the way of
melodic invention. Once blues forms were re-introduced
in early rock & roll, you got "Hound Dog" and "Long
Tall Sally" etc etc and you got kids buying records
(performances, as John states) for entirely different
reasons than their parents did.
pb
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:32:23 -0000
From: Fred Clemens
Subject: Re: Changed titles
Another instance of changed titles occured when Roy Orbison
wrote "Pretty Woman". The original version was written by Orbison,
Joe Melson, and Ray Rush, and was recorded by Curtis Byrd on Candix
Records in 1962.
Keeping the same title, Orbison took the title for a second go
around, this time assisted by Bill Dees. This is the one Orbison
recorded himself in 1964, which would later be re-titled as "Oh,
Pretty Woman".
Here's a link to the lyrics of the Byrd recorded version:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/axeman/439/misc3/lyrics/prettywom.html
Note that there are very few similarities between both songs. The
music is entirely different.
Fred Clemens
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Watson Macblue
Subject: Re: Avanti
Dan Hughes writes:
> What I SHOULD have asked is "Where did Studebaker come up with
> the name Avanti?" Is it an obscure Indian tribe, or a European
> quadraped, or a made-up word?
It's Italian for "get a move on" or "forwards!" (the exclamation
is vital). You see it very occasionally as a tempo marking - I
remember Benjamin Britten using it a couple of times.
Watson
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:58:29 EST
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: Walter Scott Murder Book
> John Fox--could you please tell me the title and author of the
> book about the Walter Scott murder?
Mark,
The book is called "The Cheaters" by Scottie Priesmeyer, and it's
on Amazon. While I'm at it, another fascinating book available on
Amazon is "Before He Was Fab" by Jim Kirkpatrick, about George
Harrison's 1963 2-week visit to the U. S.
John
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:19:47 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Grapefruit
> The Grapefruit, IMHO, were really pretty good. I liked the song
> "Elevator". I have their LP and the few 45s released here in
> the US.
> Aren't there at least two Grapefruit LPs?
In the States, anyway, there was a second Grapefruit album, "Deep
Water," on RCA. I have it but haven't listened since the early 70s.
My memory from one spin and other comments I've read is that it's
undistinguished "heavy" rock with none of the melodic qualities of
the first LP.
Missing in all this Grapefruit discussion so far has been any
mention of the song "Lullaby" from the first LP. It's a very
conscious (and quite successful) attempt to mimic a "Strawberry
Fields Forever"-era John Lennon effort -- complete with mellotron,
Beatly harmonies and very Ringo-ish drums. And most of all, a dead-
on Lennonesque vocal.
I know that folks' views will vary on the validity of producing
something that's not just influenced by another artist, but rather
an out-and-out imitation. Me, I think "Lullaby" is so well- and
obviously lovingly done that it succeeds, and I find it very
enjoyable.
At any rate, it was well-done enough to fool me. The track was
given to me many years ago by a friend as a cassette dub of a
bootleg he owned, with an accompanying story that it had been dug
out of Lennon's trash at some indeterminate date. I went for a time
believing this story, till I happened to pull the Grapefruit album
out of my collection to give it a spin -- something I obviously
hadn't done in some time. Imagine my embarrassment at learning that
I had in fact owned this alleged Great Lost Beatles track all along!
I've also heard it said that "Lullaby" fooled the compilers of that
radio series done several years ago that featured a lot of
unreleased Lennon tracks (the name of it is escaping me just now).
Can anyone confirm that this track was indeed played on this series
and passed off as genuine Lennon?
Mike
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:32:41 -0000
From: Albin Lindström
Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
Hi,
This beautiful song was also recorded in a slightly better sounding
version by Queen Anne's Lace (Anne and William B. Phillips) on their
self titled LP from 1969. It's one of my favourite soft pop records,
with lovely versions of songs by the Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel and
Burt Bacharach.
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:49:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Taber
Subject: Re: Melinda Marx (and Bill)
Simon White wrote:
> There are 45s by Bill Marx on Vee Jay too and something tells me
> that he was a son of a Marx Brother. I'll have a look in my books.
I believe he is the adopted son of Harpo, and an accomplished pianist.
I strongly recommend the book "Harpo Speaks" to anyone with an
interest in the entertainment industry from 1900-1960. It's just flat
out my favorite book of all time. I believe Harpo was about 6 years
older than he claims to be in his biography, however.
Tom Taber
P.S. My fellow Americans - Rite Aid stores have $5.99 headphones for
99 cents this week, and if you go through them like I do (falling
asleep with them on), that's quite a bargain.
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:56:32 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Tim Gilbert / Austin Roberts to Musica
Hi, Just posted "One Word" by Austin Roberts and "Early October" by
Tim Gilbert to Musica. Will probably pull Gilbert's soon to make
more space. Take care, Clark
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:56:58 -0500
From: Lou
Subject: Re: Rundgren / Nyro
> Now, here's my toss on Brian Wilson's influence: How about
> Todd Rundgren? His very melodic songs, his great harmonies,
> his arrangements, with separate "movements". I don't know if
> Todd has ever acknowledged a debt to Brian, but I feel Brian's
> stamp on Todd's writing. Anyone else see this?
> I've been a fan of both Todd & Laura Nyro for over 30 years, and
> only noticed 6 months ago how much Todd was influenced by her -
> down to chord changes.
> Which is why Todd once sang, "Laura, I caught your show in L.A."
> in "Baby's Let's Swing". Now I love to shuffle so surrey on down.
I'm guessing that Laura wasn't the only female influence on Todd.
Over the years I've noticed how much Todd sounded like he was
inspired by Carole King during the "Something / Anything" recording.
Whenever there is an article on Todd the influences that get listed
are The Beatles, Yardbirds, other British Invasion groups along
with a few blues players but anyone who listens to Todd can hear
the Brill Building touch as well.
By the way Dave, if you like Baby Let's Swing (the medley version
from the "Runt" lp) you should hear the complete version of the song.
It really is a delightful song (or should I say a love letter to
Laura).
Lou
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:54:31 +0000
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Re: Worst 45 pressings
Billy G. Spradlin:
> I think the worst sounding but one of the greatest early rock
> recordings is Gary U.S. Bonds'"Quarter To Three" - I have it on
> original 45, on a vinyl LP and Rhino CD and they all sound like
> it was recorded with the microphone stuck in a closet or under
> a blanket!
Surely "Quarter to Three" was intended to sound "like it was
recorded with the microphone stuck in a closet or under a
blanket". Wasn't that the magic?
Richard Williams
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:05:31 EST
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: Medicine Man & the real Napoleon XIV
> ...and it was COME ACROSS.
> ...funny, but I thought it was "Come-a Close"!
This is one of the more controversial "mondegreens". I always
thought it was "Common Cold" (makes perfect sense for a medicine
man, no?).
And on the subject of "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Ha!",
the most amazing thing about this song (other than its short but
meteoric chart run, aided by its ban from the airways) is that it
was written and performed by Jerry Samuels, the same guy who wrote
the early 1964 middle-of-the-road crossover hit for Sammy Davis,
Jr., "The Shelter of Your Arms".
John Fox
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:46:00 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Tuesday Weld Ya Ya
lobsterman730 wrote:
> Hi Y'all! FIRST POSTING! Got a question... I have been troubled
> for almost two decades on this matter... Exactly, how RARE is
> the TUESDAY WELD 45, "Are You The Boy" on Plaza Records? Can
> anyone share some light on the value and the history of this
> recording?
Tuesday Weld was credited as the artist on the soundtrack theme
"Lolita Ya Ya," but the wordless vocal could well(d) have been
sung by anybody. Does anyone know if it really was her on that,
or if not what the story behind it was?
--Phil M.
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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:00:24 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Re: Answer Songs / Gerri Granger @ Musica
Brian Davy:
> If I add Gerri Granger's "Don't Want No Letters" to the list
> as the answer to "Return to Sender", it gives me the
> opportunity to beg that someone with the wherewithal posts
> her Elvis cover "Just Tell Him Jane Said Hello" to Musica.
Steady, Davy, you don't *have* to beg. Some of us need little
persuading filling musica with fab black chicks. Not that I
have anything against all these mimsy white boys. Well, not
much. :-)
As it's not out on CD - well, not to my knowledge - Gerri
Granger's "Just Tell Him Jane Said Hello" (Big Top 3150, 1963)
is now playing @ musica. Gerri deserves a whole CD of her own.
Fat chance, I guess. "Stick Close", anyone?
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:11:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Watson Macblue
Subject: Brian and his imitators
Susan writes:
>The best of it, IMHO, is that which he did with Andy Paley.
>But there are many who will tell you that Andy is the best
>BW mimic they've ever heard, and these sessions prove it.
Ah - someone has mentioned the Elephant In The Room. The
evidence and the claims do not match up. In all seriousness,
beware of mines here, Susan; I've been threatened - physically
- for suggesting this. And it has been going on for a lot
longer than people like to think. If engineer Steve Desper
is to be believed, all that wonderful Brianism on the Spring
album was the work of David Sandler; Desper insisted in an
interview that Brian's contribution to the album had been
"minimal". Something to do with brand recognition.
If we really want a classical composer to compare Brian with,
let me suggest the English song composer Ivor Gurney, whose
early, great promise was destroyed by being gassed in the
First World War, followed by a complete nervous breakdown.
Poor Gurney spent his last years in an asylum. The music he
wrote there is vastly, pitifully inferior to what he wrote
before the War, and in the trenches before being injured.
Gurney fans - and there are many - will fight to the death
over his early works, but no-one has ever seriously suggested
that the post-1917 stuff is of anything other than academic
interest, with the very occasional, sad glimmer of the past.
I think we BW fans should take the hint. Certainly, Gurney
was never subjected to the weird personality cult that surrounds
Brian, or an Ivor-Is-Back campaign while he was "communicating"
with the police through a radio in his teeth.
Watson
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:22:26 -0000
From: Hugo M
Subject: Re: masochist lyrics AND Vance-Pockriss query
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just stumbled across a record
that is EXACTLY the kind of thing Julio was asking about when he
first posted. One record jumped out at me during a recent cataloguing
binge -- "Jackie/Four Shy Girls" by The Girlfriends (Pioneer 71833).
Verse three, line three: "Go on and hurt me, Jackie, I don't care
what you do..." Songwriting and production credits to Vance &
Pockriss, which leads me to my next question.
I've been seeing those names a LOT lately, they seem to be there
every time I turn around. lounge/Bacharach/bossa stuff, girl-group,
novelty songs (like the weird baby-talk/hipster lingo parody of "The
Chick"...) They seem to have done a little bit of everything, and
I've never seen them mentioned here -- anybody have good info or
anecdotes to share about these two careerists?
Cheers --
Hugo M.
http://free.hostdepartment.com/P/PME
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:39:06 EST
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Bobby Vee "Beautiful People"
Clark,
Although you probably already know, Kenny wrote
Next Plane To London and Behind Closed Doors.
AR
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