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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Shangri-Las / Skapop / Help!
From: Bob Brooks
2. The Porcupines - Bubblegum lives!
From: Maize Records
3. Greetings Al Kooper !
From: Mick Patrick
4. Al Kooper/Mark Radice
From: Dan Hughes
5. THE Al Kooper?
From: Doug
6. Re: Pet Sounds mono/stereo/5:1
From: Mike McKay
7. Re: Jeff Lynne
From: Mark Frumento
8. Inept / Mistakes
From: Albabe Gordon
9. Re: Jeff Lynne on Free as a bird
From: John Berg
10. Re: Pet Sounds whoopsies
From: John Sellards
11. Al Kooper
From: Stuart Miller
12. Vinyl Junkies
From: Mark Frumento
13. Re: Righteous Brothers
From: Alan Gordon
14. Re: Mixing, "Run To Him"
From: Bob Celli
15. Artie Wayne; Vance-Pockriss
From: Michael Edwards
16. Re: Chuck Berry
From: Mike McKay
17. Re: Alvin Robinson
From: Mick Patrick
18. Long After Tonight Is All Over
From: John Lester
19. Chuck Berry / The Beatles
From: Albabe Gordon
20. Bobby Hatfield/Al Kooper
From: Peter Richmond
21. Re: Many great men
From: Paul Bryant
22. Re: Vinyl Junkies
From: James Botticelli
23. Re: Jeff Lynne on Free as a bird
From: Radice
24. Re: Al Kooper
From: Mikey
25. Re: Canadian club / welcome Al Kooper / Gary Chesters
From: Phil Milstein
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:57:19 -0000
From: Bob Brooks
Subject: Re: Shangri-Las / Skapop / Help!
Mick:
> Modesty should forbid me from mentioning the essay that
> accompanies the Shangri-Las' "Myrmidons Of Melodrama" CD
> (but it obviously doesn't!). It includes exclusive
> interviews with Ellie Greenwich, Jeff Barry, Cousin Brucie
> and the Shangs' labelmate, lovely blue-eyed soul heroine
> Evie Sands. Find more information at the RPM website:
> http://www.cherryred.co.uk/rpm/rpm/theshangrilas.htm
Mick - Don't be modest! MofM would be worth the price
even if the CD was missing.
Regards,
Bob Brooks
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:55:35 -0000
From: Maize Records
Subject: The Porcupines - Bubblegum lives!
(Please pardon the shameless plug here)
The multi-talented Squire Of The Subterrian aka Chris Earl,
has joined forces with Maize Records' resident tunesmith
Bill Retoff, and labelmates Jamie Lehman & Dan McKenzie
to create THE PORCUPINES, a rockin' tribute to the great
bubblegum sounds of the mid-1960s. Did I mention the band
members are cartoon characters?
Here's the scoop:
http://www.geocities.com/maizepop/upcomingreleases.html
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:53:55 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Greetings Al Kooper !
Al Kooper:
> This is my first reply in S'pop, but I'm an old fan of
> "What Is Soul" by Ben E King. I'm pretty sure Bob Gallo
> was a Long Island type of guy, but that means I have to
> go upstairs and check some LPs and I'm on the road at the
> moment. But "WIS" by BEK is a masterful track: great songs,
> great production, great arrangement, great engineering &
> great playing. I have it on a 45 and have never heard it in
> stereo. Is there such a thing on CD?
Greetings Al Kooper, the man who wrote a ton of great songs
for Gene Pitney, not to mention "This Diamond Ring" for Sammy
Ambrose, "The Water Is Over My Head" for Eddie Hodges, "I'm
Over You" for Lorraine Ellison, "When Something's Hard To Get"
for the Essex, "Night Time Girl" for the MFQ, "Bobby's Come A
Long, Long Way" for the Eight Feet...Gawd, I could be here all
night!
I have Ben E. King's "What Is Soul" on his CD of that title,
released on UK Westside RSACD 854. Most of the CD is in stereo
but this track is in mono. I like it that way. Stereo? Schmereo!
:-) It was recorded at the same session as his great version of
Bacharach & David's "They Don't Give Medals (To Yesterday's
Heroes)".
One of your old friends from the Aaron Schroeder days, Jean
English, was at the S'pop Shindig in New York last summer.
Remember her? She cut one of your songs way back. Go on, name it!
It's great to have you with us. Got any Surfer Girls acetates
you don't want?
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:49:34 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Al Kooper/Mark Radice
Al posted this note:
> I had a wonderful Mark Radice single on DECCA called
> Natural Morning". A pop beauty amazingly overlooked.
> Any of you 'poppers heard it or own it?
I asked Mark about it. He says,
"That was recorded when I was ten in 1967. Al will be happy
to know that we have recently remastered it and it is set to
become part of a 10 CD set hopefully coming out in the summer
commemorating my 40th anniversary as a songwriter. That record
was my fifth single, my first came out at the age of 7. They
will all be on Volume 1.
Each CD will have 4 songs from each year.....hence (I like
that word) Volume 1 will be from 1967-1970 (16 songs), Vol 2
from 1971-1974, etc....sort of. The current outlay is:
RADICE-VOLUMES:
1-67/70
2-71/74
3-75/78
4-79/82
5-83/86
6-87/90
7-91/94
8-95/98
9-99/02
10-03/04
The whole set will have 160 songs on it, which is roughly 2% of my
writing catalog. I guess you could say that writing for me has been quite
an obsession."
Dan, Spectropop Recruit Commander
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:18:23 -0000
From: Doug
Subject: THE Al Kooper?
Good grief! Al freakin' Kooper is now posting here?!?
What next, Elvis? This just keeps getting better all the time!
Love your work Al. I play that first BS&T record all the time.
Please keep posting.
Doug
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:22:02 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Pet Sounds mono/stereo/5:1
Al Kooper wrote:
> As a major Brian fan, I welcome the stereo & 5.1 additions as
> a Brian student. Many questions are answered re: arrangements
> & engineering. I HATE mono for that reason with the exception
> of Elvis, Gene Vincent, Phil Spector & Pet Sounds.
Hi Al...very nice to have you as a part of Spectropop!
I think you've highlighted a crucial difference here between
music for *listening* and music for *studying*. I've actually
heard people depend those awful split stereo mixes of The Beatles'
first two albums on the grounds that you can hear what the vocalists
and instrumentalists are doing more clearly in isolation.
My reply has always been that's fine, but when you simply want
to enjoy the songs as a listening experience without regard to
studying their structure, is this the way you really want to
hear them?
I've fought the mono/stereo battle for years, and my statement
has always been that I'm not anti-stereo...I'm simply anti-BAD
stereo. And with the majority of pre-1967 or so recordings,
that's what you're likely to get. As others have pointed out,
stereo often eviscerates the cohesiveness, the power and the
punch these songs have in their mono mixes. For me, that's way
too much to give up for the sake of hearing one thing in one ear
and something else in another.
Mike
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:11:16 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Re: Jeff Lynne
Richard Hattersley wrote:
> Lynne is one of the few remaining producers still giving a
> nod toward the 60s in a positive, non-corny way.
I for one am glad to read posts in defense of Jeff Lynne.
He may not technically be a great producer but he's like
one of us getting a shot at producing (I mean us fans, not
the rest you who were/are producers). Come to think of it
I may be one of the few on Spectropop who never was a producer.
Hmmmm? :>))
And I still think the guy does one of the best Roy Orbisons
around!
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:52:21 -0800
From: Albabe Gordon
Subject: Inept / Mistakes
I'm a bit behind here, so maybe this has already been touched on.
I just had to put my measly two bits worth in this discussion.
As for "Inept":
I love "mistakes" in records. In fact, I love listening to
demos because they're (sometimes) so much more filled with
emotion and energy than the finished work. And they're also
usually done on the fly. An artist is inspired and is trying
to get his ideas down as fast as he can so they won't dissipate.
I love the way that (what might sometimes be akin to) desperation
sounds.
Some of these "inept mistakes" that we're talking about are
left in for good reason. Sometimes it was the best sounding
take. Sometimes it just sounded more "real." Many artists
and producers go to great length to get a natural take that
has mistakes and such, to give a recording a certain organic
quality. This is especially apparent in these current days
where drum machines and sequencers are used to replay a certain
section of a song over and over. Sometimes it's a two bar section,
sometimes it's the whole phrase. But either way, it's important
to have slight mistakes et al, to keep a recording from sounding
like a robot did it.
I know of songs where the breathing in between lines was sampled
from louder takes and punched in between these lines to make the
song sound like the singers were more present. I know of beats
that were purposefully made askew so that the drum machine wasn't
so dang redundant. And sometimes the artists and producers just
really liked the take with the "mistake" in it.
The interesting part to me, is that once it's pressed in "vinyl",
it's no longer a mistake, since the powers that be "signed off"
on it and decided that it was the take they wanted to be appreciated
for all perpetuity. But I guess that's just semantics.
~albabe
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:08:55 EST
From: John Berg
Subject: Re: Jeff Lynne on Free as a bird
I will be so bold as to say that I like ELO! So there!
OK, I mostly like their early stuff as they were evolving
from The Move, who I adore. And I like Idle Race too.
Not my all-time fave bands, but enjoyable and not worthy
of the revisionist anti-commercial crap that gets said/written
about them nowadays. I prefer early Yes to their later stuff,
early Genesis to their later efforts, etc. But baby I would
still rather listen to any of their music than the Sex Pistols
or Slaughter & The Dogs or virtually any of the other "punk"
bands that emerged circa '76 and knocked too many musicians
and bands out of the running just because they would not cop
an attitude and swear, spit and get bloody on TV.
John Berg (who also grew up watching Lloyd Thaxton on TV in LA.)
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:50:21 -0000
From: John Sellards
Subject: Re: Pet Sounds whoopsies
Al Kooper:
> As a major Brian fan, I welcome the stereo & 5.1 additions as
> a Brian student. Many questions are answered re: arrangements
> & engineering. I HATE mono for that reason with the exception
> of Elvis, Gene Vincent, Phil Spector & Pet Sounds.
True, and I sometimes appreciate the ability to hear individual
parts as well in a stereo mix. But stereo mixes don't often have
the knockout punch that mono versions do, at least to me, and it
sometimes seems like you can hear more detail and instrumental
imterplay in mono, especially when the mono has less reverb...I
sort of think of stereo as the deli tray, and the mono as a big
ol' sandwich already put together.
But it could be mastering as well. I'm just fascinated by how
original 45s sound...limiting, EQ, and such compared to what
comes out on CD.
John Sellards
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:21:45 -0000
From: Stuart Miller
Subject: Al Kooper
Al
Did you sneek in or did I miss any annoucement about you
joining this List? It is fabulous to have you here.
I have a tremendous story about you going into a meeting,
accompanied by Charlie Calello, with the people at Pepsi,
I think back in the late 60s or early 70s. They were
apparently pouring large sums of cash into your bank account
and wanted you to do a commercial for them. Was an Elton
John track involved? It was relatively early in the morning
and the Pepsi people sat around discussing the track,
intellectualising it and prattling away. You sat there,
silently, taking it all in. After a period of time, when
you'd had as much as you could take, you stood up and
addressed the meeting and said, "Guys, when people get up
in the morning, they put their clothes on. When you guys get
up, you put yourselves on". And with that you left, leaving
the money behind.
Now that was an Al Kooper moment. Again, great to have you here.
Stuart Miller
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:22:37 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Vinyl Junkies
Alan Haber who lurkes here recommended Brett Milano's book
"Vinyl Junkies". Only three chapters in and already I've
found the book to be hysterical and right on the money with
regard to vinyl collecting - in fact collecting in general.
Highly recommended.
Anybody else read the book? Anyone know Brett?
Here's a link to the Amazon listing: http://tinyurl.com/2x4t5
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:35:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: Righteous Brothers
Hello Al Kooper, I dont know how long you have been a
part of this wonderful group, but something tells me when
the great minds in this crowd realize how important you
have been to the music we all love I think you should be
prepared for a whole lot of respect and lots of questions.
We first met at We Three Music where Mr Hal Webman ran
the company. I think it was even before the Blues project.
Anyway great to have you on board
Best Wishes
Alan Gordon
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:53:04 -0000
From: Bob Celli
Subject: Re: Mixing, "Run To Him"
Bob Celli:
> Several years ago I was at Bobby's home and he let
> me rummage through several boxes of acetates. I came
> across one for "Run To Him", Take 11A. I played it
> and was amazed that the entire first verse was done
> just like the Everlys would have done it, only with
> Bobby singing a high harmony part throughout the entire
> verse. It sounded great but they obviously made the
> right choice with the version that was released.
Steveo
> Thanks for the great info.I feel that the mono
> versions are superior on Bobby Vee. However, I'm
> glad I have the stereo versions so I can figure
> out Ernie Freeman's brilliant scoring (tee hee).
> Ernie wrote the whole shebang, including the voices!
> Johnny was there to supervise and handle any changes
> or problems, as well as direct the choir.
Steveo,
I'm fairly certain that Tommy Allsup was the contractor for
those sessions, Sid Sharp would get the strings together and
Johnny Mann would get the singers he wanted. I assumed that
Johnny Mann was directing the choir for the session from in
front but BV told me that he was right in the middle of the
group singing. I have copies of some of Ernie's charts for
Devil Or Angel and Rubber Ball. He originally had written
the "bouncy bouncy" part on Rubber Ball for both "boys and
girls"; that's the way he marked the sheet! I guess they
tossed the "boys" out after the first couple of takes!.
Bob Celli
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:58:15 -0000
From: Michael Edwards
Subject: Artie Wayne; Vance-Pockriss
Artie Wayne writes:
>During the year that followed, Paul (Vance) and I wrote songs that
>were covered by the Fleetwoods, Gary Miles, the Playmates, while
>Danny and I had songs covered by the Angels, "You Should've Told Me"
>[co-written with Ellie Greenwich], "Meet me Where we used to Meet"
>by Brian Poole and the Tremeloes [co-written with Joey
>Powers].....among others.
It kind of makes you want to dig through your boxes of 45s
to find these, doesn't it?
Thanks Artie, for sharing some more insights into the world
of pre-Beatles rock 'n' roll. Thanks also for shedding some
light on Paul Vance's career. We've all seen the Vance-Pockriss
songwriting credit on many a record label but, like, say,
Geld-Udell, we simply didn't know anything about them.
By the way, you don't happen to know anything about Gary Geld
and Peter Udell, do you? I know they took over as producers
for Joey Powers in 1964 ("Where Did The Summer Go" – Amy 914),
so maybe there's a story there.
Mike
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:13:28 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Chuck Berry
I wrote:
> Most of the lead guitar work you heard was of the Chuck Berry
> variety -- again, nothing wrong with that, but certainly the
> electric guitar offered additional possibilities.
Country Paul replied:
> I disagree with the Great Man Theory. There were many great
> men (and women). All contributed something, some more than
> others. All mentioned above certainly were leaders. There
> are also more. I think comparisons past a certain point are
> occasionally entertaining, but more often useless exercises
> in frustration. And re: Chuck Berry, before him rock & roll
> guitar had not been formulatred. He seriously affected all
> players after him (with the possible exception of Duane Eddy
> and Chet Atkins, who "wrote their own books") - including,
> if we remember, early Beach Boys and Beatles records, which
> liberally copped his style, albeit with much different guitar
> tones.
Paul, my quote above makes more sense when it's placed in context
rather than isolated. What I was highlighting is what live rock
'n' roll was like at the performance level in the pre-Beatles days
...which is to say, almost exclusively frat rock, three-chord stuff.
My point was that The Beatles opened up many new possibilities in
terms of melodies, chord structures, and ultimately the way rock 'n'
roll guitar was played.
It was certainly not my intention to disparage Chuck Berry's guitar
work in any way. I agree with your statement that he virtually
invented rock 'n' roll guitar and that his influence was profound.
I still play Chuck Berry leads every time I strap on my guitar.
My only point was that The Beatles were the starting point for
a great many changes wrought in rock 'n' roll that were soon to
come. They certainly were not the sole instigators of these changes,
but they were perhaps the primary ones. And while Brian Wilson's
genius is absolutely without precedent, one wonders if he would have
developed at the same pace and in the same direction without The
Beatles to push him to new heights.
Mike
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:32:15 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Re: Alvin Robinson
Richard Williams:
> 1. Thanks to Artie Butler for the information that he didn't
> arrange Alvin Robinson's sublime "Fever" (the B-side of "Down
> Home Girl"). Can anyone out there confirm a suggestion that it
> (the chart) might have been the work of Robinson's fellow native
> of New Orleans, Wardell Quezergue?
Hi Richard,
Just one of the reasons that I prefer US record labels to British
ones is that they have more detailed producer and arranger credits.
The US release of Alvin Robinson's "Fever" clearly indicates that
it was a Leiber-Stoller Production, Arranged by Mike Stoller.
Magnificent record, by the way. Although the Little Willie John and
Peggy Lee versions take some beating.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:37:25 -0000
From: John Lester
Subject: Long After Tonight Is All Over
YES that is Christine Quaite in musica
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:47:21 -0800
From: Albabe Gordon
Subject: Chuck Berry / The Beatles
Paul Bryant says:
> My choice is You Never Can Tell, where the precision of
> a novelist combines with an irresistible swing -- such
> great great lines:
> They furnished off an apartment
> with a two room Roebuck sale
> The coolerator was crammed
> with TV dinners and ginger ale,
> But when Pierre found work,
> the little money comin' worked out well
> "C'est la vie", say the old folks,
> it goes to show you never can tell
> It don't get better than that."
I couldn't agree more. Chuck was an amazing colloquial poet.
And as for Free As A Bird:
It's not the Threatles, it's The Beatles. And it sounds just
like The Beatles to me. I love George and Paul's added middle
eight. It's a great song and a great record.
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:03:52 -0000
From: Peter Richmond
Subject: Bobby Hatfield/Al Kooper
Al Kooper wrote:
>Just to inform you that I cut two sides with Bobby Hatfield
>around 1971-72 for Warner Bros. One was a cover of Orbison's
>"Crying" and the other was a Motown cover of a song called
>"Sweet Joy Of Life". SJOL was the better of the two.
>Never released. Neither of them. He was GREAT to work with
>and I treasure the time we spent together.
Welcome aboard Al, thanks so much for the invaluable information,
greatly appreciated.
Peter.
Righteous Brothers Discography
http://freespace.virgin.net/p.richmond/
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:07:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Many great men
Country Paul wrote:
> And re: Chuck Berry, before him rock & roll guitar
> had not been formulated. He seriously affected all
> players after him (with the possible exception of
> Duane Eddy and Chet Atkins, who "wrote their own
> books") - including, if we remember, early Beach
> Boys and Beatles records, which liberally copped his
> style, albeit with much different guitar tones.
And Buddy Holly, and the Rolling Stones. That's quite
a bagful.
pb
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:14:07 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: Vinyl Junkies
Mark Frumento wrote:
> Alan Haber who lurkes here recommended Brett Milano's book
> "Vinyl Junkies". Only three chapters in and already I've
> found the book to be hysterical and right on the money with
> regard to vinyl collecting - in fact collecting in general.
>
> Highly recommended.
>
> Anybody else read the book? Anyone know Brett?
Brett's been a music scene scribe here in boston for a
number of years. A brief stint in L.A. which may or may
not have proved too much for the man. So he came back to
find the life he once knew. And did.
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:14:39 -0000
From: Radice
Subject: Re: Jeff Lynne on Free as a bird
Hi all :) Dan Hughes sent me an email informing me of this
place....looks cool :)
Jeff Lynne produced a song I wrote for Dave Edmunds, which turned
out to be the album title, "Information"...small world, huh?
Apparently there have been some posts about me, gonna go root
around for them....I sent Dan an email back, he said he might
post it here, so for the sake of not reiterating the redundant
I'll let nature take it's course. I'm 46 now, still writing
about 3 songs a week, and have been fortunate enough to have
my songs on well over 120 different CDs :) I passed the 3000
mark for songwriting in 1998....sick, ain't it?
Hey do links work here like http://cdbaby.com/cd/soundslikeus ?
Catch up with you all later, and thanks for inviting me Dan :)
Mark Radice
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:15:11 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Al Kooper
For Al Kooper:
Al, could you tell us the story about how you came to write
"This Diamond Ring" and how Gary Lewis came to record it?
Many, many thanks
Mikey
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:53:01 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Canadian club / welcome Al Kooper / Gary Chesters
A. Zweig wrote:
> (I'm also wondering why you added "Canadian". Why not
> "Winnipeg" too? That's okay. When I was a kid, things like
> that could actually make me proud.)
Only because it sounded good modifying "comedian." I meant
"unfunny" only to apply to "comedian," not "Canadian." Believe
me, some of my favorite comedians are Canadian. In fact, now
that I think of it, some of my favorite Canadians are comedians.
Al Kooper wrote:
> This is my first reply in S'pop ...
Welcome aboard, Al. I think you're about our sixth new "original
artist" this week. Not to make you feel shuffled off to the back
of the bus or anything ... in fact, if I know the Spectropopulation
at all, I'd advise you to prepare to be deluged with questions and
compliments!
Jonathan Singer wrote:
> Gary Chester, the engineer, IS the son of Gary Chester the drummer.
Well I'll be! I scoured the Gary Chester website
(http://www.angelfire.com/music5/garychester/bio.html) for some
clue to confirm/deny that hunch, but turned up only one son named
Tony and a whole clutch o' daughters.
Be bop a,
--Phil Milstein
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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
End
