Spectropop - Digest Number 1251

• From: Spectropop Group
• Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004

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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 17 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. the stereo/mono debate
           From: Paul Bryant 
      2. Attn all Lloyd Thaxton fans
           From: Patricia 
      3. Re: Mark Radice
           From: JJ 
      4. Re: Attn all Lloyd Thaxton fans
           From: Mikey 
      5. Re: Vinyl Junkies
           From: Art Longmire 
      6. Re: Many great men
           From: Peter Kearns 
      7. Re: the stereo/mono debate
           From: John 
      8. Re: Jeff Lynne
           From: Peter Kearns 
      9. The New Order ( the 60's guys!)
           From: Mike 
     10. Re: Many great men
           From: Steveo 
     11. Re: Al Kooper
           From: Stephanie 
     12. Re: THE Al Kooper?
           From: Scott Charbonneau 
     13. Re: Mark Radice
           From: Mike 
     14. Re: Al Kooper
           From: steveo 
     15. Re: All our celebrity guests
           From: David Coyle 
     16. Fountains & Ivy; Free; Free; Shep & The Heartbeats and Limelites; pressings
           From: Country Paul 
     17. Re: Rubber Ball
           From: Steveo 


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Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:42:16 -0800 (PST)
   From: Paul Bryant 
Subject: the stereo/mono debate

John Sellards wrote:
> True, and I sometimes appreciate the ability to hear
> individual parts as well in a stereo mix. But stereo
> mixes don't often have  the knockout punch that mono
> versions do

I sit hear listening to a bunch of girl group stuff in
stereo for the first time, so this is very close to
what Buddhists call Enlightenment, but the point is
that SOME of the stuff, like You Don't Own Me or
Chapel of Love, or The Boy from Noo York City, are
transformed, and some, like It's In His Kiss, are
strangely diminished. The stereo often sounds like the
aural equivalent of one of those "exploded diagrams"
of car engines, and it's fascinating to see all Betty
Everett's bits and pieces laid out for me to enjoy,
but with the brass off to the side it just hasn't got 
the oomph that the mono does.
 
So you have to judge song by song. Some are better,
some not. With Pet Sounds, as the accompanying book
says, it's not done to replace the mono. It's another
version. Like, say, the director's cut of Apocalypse
Now is another version, not intended to replace the
first famous version. 

pb



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Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:07:25 -0000
   From: Patricia 
Subject: Attn all Lloyd Thaxton fans

Concerning those who have inquired about a DVD -- or (hint hint) 
DVDs, wouldn't a BOX SET be groovy??? -- below is a direct 
quote from the man himself rec'd just today:

"I have all the material and am seriously considering it. 
If I could get more mail like yours, it would HAPPEN!"

C'monnnnnnnnn everybody, LET THE BOMBARDMENT BEGIN!!! :)

Rock on,

Patricia



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Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:20:25 -0000
   From: JJ 
Subject: Re: Mark Radice

Mike McKay:
> I have a Mark Radice album that I believe dates from the 
> mid-70s. On the cover, he looks to be all of about 12 years 
> old. Haven't listened to it in years, but I recall thinking 
> it was pretty good. And though I'm not the kind of label-
> squinter that many Spectropoppers are...

Al Kooper:
> I had a wonderful Mark Radice single on DECCA called "Natural 
> Morning". A pop beauty amazingly overlooked. Any of you 'poppers 
> heard it or own it ?

**Yes, a great track, but Mark Radice's PIECE DE RESISTANCE is, 
"Three Cheers (for the sadman"), another, circa '68, Decca 45
.......with lots of Brian Wilson "tricks" init!

While having Mr Al Kooper on line, I must say that I really 
LOVE his first 45, fr 1965, "New York's my home (Razz-A-Ma-Tazz)
.....could use an orig copy, anyone?

Another Al Kooper related question; US group DON MEEHAN PROJECT 
did a FAB cover of "A house in the country" (Columbia circa late 
68? 45), off B,S &T. first album, and I wonder if AK are aware 
of this cover + if he's heard it?

JJ/Sweden



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Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:51:13 -0500
   From: Mikey 
Subject: Re: Attn all Lloyd Thaxton fans

Please Mr Thaxton.....put out your shows on DVD!!!!  ALL of 
them!!!!!

Mikey



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Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:58:56 -0000
   From: Art Longmire 
Subject: Re: Vinyl Junkies

Mark Frumento wrote:
> Alan Haber who lurks here recommended Brett Milano's book 
> "Vinyl Junkies". Only three chapters in and already I've 
> found the book to be hysterical and right on the money with 
> regard to vinyl collecting - in fact collecting in general. 
> Highly recommended.
> Here's a link to the Amazon listing: http://tinyurl.com/2x4t5

I've skimmed over parts of the book, Mark -- it's intriguing, 
although I don't agree with everything he says. One statement 
made in the text really caught my eye -- someone was quoted as 
saying that there are no female record collectors! There's got 
to be some somewhere, although I personally don't know any ...

Art Longmire




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Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:29:17 -0000
   From: Peter Kearns 
Subject: Re: Many great men

Country Paul wrote:
> I disagree with the Great Man Theory. There were many great men (and women).
> All contributed something, some more than others. All mentioned above
> certainly were leaders. There are also more. I think comparisons past a
> certain point are occasionally entertaining, but more often useless
> exercises in frustration.

I wholeheartedly agree, and probably never more than that moment 
right after I've spoken and hit the send button. I always think of an 
alternative to something I said, thus the pointlessness of opinion 
(mainly mine) in general.

So who's better than who is indeed a wild goose chase; maybe it's 
more a matter of defining period. Personally I would stretch the 
whole inspirational period to last until around-about 1980 -- then it 
closes in on itself. There are however, many pleasing remnants if you 
hunt them out.

Being from New Zealand, I've been forced to work within many styles 
over the years and there was even ten years where I didn't give the 
60s a thought. But I came full circle to realize that nothing has 
ever really been improved upon since. Which surely is one reason why 
we are all here.

Peter. 



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Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:52:29 -0000
   From: John 
Subject: Re: the stereo/mono debate

Paul Bryant wrote:

> So you have to judge song by song. Some are better,
> some not. With Pet Sounds, as the accompanying book
> says, it's not done to replace the mono. It's another
> version. Like, say, the director's cut of Apocalypse
> Now is another version, not intended to replace the
> first famous version. 

I couldn't agree more. In some way I've always felt lucky 
that there are "other" mixes to be found of familiar things.

John  




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Message: 8
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:50:35 -0000
   From: Peter Kearns 
Subject: Re: Jeff Lynne

Martin Jensen wrote:
> I really agree with you in this. Have you heard the Zoom album, 
> which [Jeff Lynne] issued in 2001 (or was it 2002, ...nevermind) 
> under the old Electric Light Orchestra name? There's a song on 
> it called 'State of Mind', which faboulously evokes a 60s feel. 
> It's quite a good album... Both Ringo and George plays on it.

Yes, I've got "Zoom." I really like it, but personally I thought it 
might as well have just been another Jeff Lynne album, if somewhat 
inferior to his "Armchair Theatre." The only other ELO contribution 
is Richard Tandy on one track.

But who cares? I'm biased and love everything Jeff does.

Richard Hattersley wrote:
> I think Jeff is a great producer and I love that drum sound 
> too, it's so fat.  I really don't understand why he gets such 
> a hammering by press and music buffs.
> Maybe you have to have been around in the 70s to hate ELO, 
> but being born in '74 I only vaguely remember ELO at their 
> height of fame, hence I hear the sounds of Jeff Lynne without 
> any image and I like it.

Again, it's the same rubbish where ELO were concerned. They got a 
hammering in certain quarters too just because combining pop and 
classical was considered corny maybe. The songs and arrangements 
were brilliant and originally inspired by Jeff and Roy Wood's 
devotion to the psychedelic 60s.

I hear virtually everything Jeff does as a continuation of ELO in a 
way and I'd recommend listening to ELO's 'A New World Record' from 
1976, if you haven't already. It's all there -- the spawn of the 60s, 
plus the seeds for an arm of pop production that flourished in the 
80s/90s. 

Mark Frumento wrote:
> I for one am glad to read posts in defense of Jeff Lynne. 
> He may not technically be a great producer but he's like 
> one of us getting a shot at producing (I mean us fans, not 
> the rest you who were/are producers

Not technically great? How on earth did you come to this 
conclusion?

All you have to do is read down today's top 40, and you'll 
get a clear picture of the producers that are getting a 'shot', 
and have very little in the way of musical expertise.

Peter.



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Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:36:27 -0000
   From: Mike 
Subject: The New Order ( the 60's guys!)

For some time, I've been trying to contact and unearth information on 
the NYC based discotheque beat combo, the New Order.  Three singles 
were released on Warner Brothers in 1966, with the first two being 
stellar garagey-pop beat masterpieces: "You've Got Me High" and "Why 
Can't I". No wonder the first single never made it to the bigger AM 
radio market playlists, with a title like that!

Members included vocalist Roger Joyce, who is still singing 
somewhere, form what I understand, Billy Barberis, and Bobby 
Weinstein (himself famous for scribing scores of pop hits).  I also 
believe one or two of the New Order guys were doubling as session 
players, having played on the Don Kirshner/Jeff Barry produced in NYC 
band backing tracks for Monkees tunes.

So, anyone out there recall these guys, and/or can put me in touch 
with the elusive Mr. Weinstein or anyone else?  And I dig their Pucci 
outfitted attire -- stylin!

Thanks in advance!

Mike



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Message: 10
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:41:11 -0800 (PST)
   From: Steveo 
Subject: Re: Many great men

Country Paul:

> And re: Chuck Berry, before him rock & roll guitar
> had not been formulated. He seriously affected all
> players after him (with the possible exception of 
> Duane Eddy and Chet Atkins, who "wrote their own
> books") - including, if we remember, early Beach
> Boys and Beatles records, which liberally copped
> his style, albeit with much different guitar tones.

Paul Bryant:

> And Buddy Holly, and the Rolling Stones. That's
> quite a bagful.

Mr.Bryant,

There's no one like Chuck Berry for influence...
that's for sure.  Chuck says he was influenced by 
Muddy Waters....well, I think the whole rock scene was
influenced by Chuck!

Steveo






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Message: 11
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:41:13 -0000
   From: Stephanie 
Subject: Re: Al Kooper

I cant believe this legend has posted here!!!! Man this is a 
shock.  I would like to let Al know I loved his book "Backstage 
Passes," which came out some years ago, and also to let him 
know he is one of America's best kept musical secrets.  The 
improvisation on "Like A Rolling Stone" is dynamic...

Stephanie



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Message: 12
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:55:25 -0000
   From: Scott Charbonneau 
Subject: Re: THE Al Kooper?

Indeed!!! GREAT to see Al here. Hopefully he will be a frequent 
contributor to Spectropop. If any of you have yet to read his 
autobio "Backstage Passes and Backstabbing Bastards" by all means 
pick it up immediately!!! Al is a great storyteller with a terrific 
sense of humor. Whenever I pick this book up and read a few pages 
I cannot help but start laughing.

Al, a question for ya. I recall, quite a few years back, you were a 
frequent contributor to Goldmine. I always enjoyed your reviews when 
they appeared. But then, no sooner you were featured in their pages, 
you just as quickly disappeared. What happened? I do recall a letter 
or two complaining about your writing style, specifically the use of 
certain off-color terminology. Was this a factor?

Finally, the Blues Project: Awesome band!!!!!

Scott



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Message: 13
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:25:00 -0000
   From: Mike 
Subject: Re: Mark Radice

Mark Radice wrote:
> I'm 46 now, still writing about 3 songs a week, and have 
> been fortunate enough to have my songs on well over 120 
> different CDs :) I passed the 3000 mark for songwriting 
> in 1998....sick, ain't it?

Hey Mark,

We corresponded privately last summer...recall my webpage 
with all of your pre teen 45s and pic sleeves? How long 
did it take you to pen your dancefloor fave, "10,000 Year 
Old Blues"?  And I hope there are more tasty pop tunes 
from your '67-'69 era to be enjoyed!

Mike



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Message: 14
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:37:17 -0800 (PST)
   From: steveo 
Subject: Re: Al Kooper

Mikey wrote:
> For Al Kooper:
> Al, could you tell us the story about how you came to write 
> "This Diamond Ring" and how Gary Lewis came to record it?

Al,

would be interested to know if you were involved with
the Lewis session, and who chose to have the "Chordovox" 
sound on the organ. Was John West involved?

Steveo



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Message: 15
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:48:27 -0800 (PST)
   From: David Coyle 
Subject: Re: All our celebrity guests

Wow, I've been away too long and it's only been a week
or so. 

I really don't have any minutiae-related questions for
Ron Dante, Lloyd Thaxton, Al Kooper, Austin Roberts,
Artie Butler, or any of our other "celebrity" guests
on the list. I sincerely hope none of them regret
coming out of the shadows to share their stories with
us.

But I guess I will throw out a few random comments.
I'll try like the rest of you not to be a nuisance to
these guys, but I'm sure I will have more comments and
questions as time goes on:

Al Kooper: It's interesting to see you on the list, as
I just recently picked up a copy of "For The Love Of
Harry: Everybody Sings Nilsson" which you produced a
few years ago. There are some great performances on
it, not the least of which is "This Could Be The
Night" as done by Brian Wilson. How did you end up
doing "Salmon Falls" with Klaus Voormann? It's
interesting to see how a guy goes from being a Beatles
fan in a club in Hamburg to such a well-known session
man. Of course you had to have started as someone's
fan in a club yourself. I also have the 2-CD Blues
Project CD, which is packed full of great stuff. Love
your keyboard work on "No Time Like The Right Time."

Lloyd Thaxton: I heard about you mostly in connection
with the Knickerbockers. Your name is all over the
2-CD "Knickerbockerism" set on Sundazed, which of
course you also wrote an introduction for. I picked up
your LP "Lloyd Thaxton Presents Land Of 1,000 Dances,"
which features Round Robin, your own Chubby Checker,
it seems. Was disappointed there was no Knickerbockers
involvement...or was there? Yours is one of the many
great TV rock shows I would like to have seen or would
love to see on tape. Glad to see you on the list...you
certainly write like a TV show host.

Austin Roberts: Can you clear something up for me? Did
you sing the lead vocal of the original "Scooby-Doo"
theme song, or just do some of the session backing on
the other music for the show? I seem to have missed
something after you showed up on the list. If that WAS
you, I can only say I love that song...very
Beatlesque. None of the followup "Scooby" themes
compare...don't get me started on Scrappy-Doo.

Artie Butler: You wrote "Down Home Girl," then? That's
probably my favorite track from "The Rolling Stones,
Now." Was it written in any sort of conscious
imitation of "Hitch Hike" by Marvin Gaye? Even if it
was, it doesn't detract from the song in the least.
"Every time I kiss you, it tastes like pork and
beans...and that perfume that you're wearing was made
from turnip greens," or however the line goes, is
fantastic.

Ron Dante: Love "Sugar Sugar," love "Tracy." That's
about all I can say. That "Sugar Sugar" video you did
for VH-1(?) is a hoot.

By the way, saw discussion about the Rock Flowers.
Just to give everyone an idea of just how old I am,
"Number Wonderful" actually reached its chart peak the
day after I was born... (a fact I found out from the
excellent "Bubblegum Is The Naked Truth" book)

Thanks for deciding not to lurk on the list, guys.

David




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Message: 16
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:19:53 -0500
   From: Country Paul 
Subject: Fountains & Ivy; Free; Free; Shep & The Heartbeats and Limelites; pressings

Peter Kearns:
> 'Fountains Of Wayne'? You've GOTta be kidding!!?? Those two examples
> owe Brian a debt

I respectfully disagree with your opinion on FoW, Peter. Ignore "Stacey's
Mom" -- it was too cute to start with. The rest of the album has some very
high points, as does the previous one, "Utopia Parkway." And their offshoot
band, Ivy, is talking to the heart of Spectropop on many of their tracks,
especially the gorgeous "Edge of the Ocean" on the "Long Distance" CD. And
Ruby, I don't hear Brian Wilson in Wilco, either.

Hurdygurl:
> Now, here's my toss on Brian Wilson's influence: How about Todd
> Rundgren? His very melodic songs, his great harmonies, his
> arrangements, with separate "movements". I don't know if Todd has
> ever acknowledged a debt to Brian, but I feel Brian's stamp on Todd's
> writing. Anyone else see this?

Yes, indeed.

Clark Besch:
> Even cooler in 1970 was [Free's] "B" side, "Mouthful of Grass".
> A very cool mellow instrumental, that using the CSG system,
> stretched the ending bass note for about 10 seconds!  Really
> cool technique.

... and a beautiful record. It got me hoping that THAT was what the band was
really about. (It wasn't.)

Paul Balser, re: answer songs, mentions "Daddy's Home" by Shep & The
Limelites. It was actually an answer song to one of the granddaddies of
group harmony, the Heartbeats' "A Thousand Miles Away" (same lead singer --
James Sheppard), which contains the verse:

You're a thousand miles away
But I still have your love to remember you by
Oh my darlin' don't you cry
Daddy's coming home soon

... and the bridge:

It may be on a Monday
It may be a Tuesday afternoon
But no matter what the day is
I'm gonna make it my business to get home soon

Note the lyric parallels to "Daddy's Home."

Mark "cleve":
> The [Left Banke] album with "Queen of Paradise" is entitled
> "Strangers on a Train", and it came out on the Relix label.
> I think I played it once, and probably should play it again!

Didn't the Grateful Dead own that label? And is it still in business?

Clark again:
> Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering?  "Sally Go Round the
> Roses" by the Jaynetts.

Two answers: (1) Tuff was pressed and distributed by Chess, notorious for
using cheap but rugged vinyl, much like Cameo Parkway. They'd start bad, and
then stay that way. (2) "Sally" has some conscious tinkering with the
overall volume levels. Might that be bad mastering, or just creating dynamic
differences where none exist?

And add another "family" of labels to the cheap styrene club -- the indie
distribution alliance Circa, which was active in the early 60's. Sadly, one
of their more major labels was Indigo, home of one of my fave groups, the
Innocents, with or without Kathy Young. There's cue burn on every one of
their records I ever played on the air.

Onward



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Message: 17
   Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:49:18 -0800 (PST)
   From: Steveo 
Subject: Re: Rubber Ball

Bob Celli wrote:

> I'm fairly certain that Tommy Allsup was the contractor for
> those sessions, Sid Sharp would get the strings together and 
> Johnny Mann would get the singers he wanted. I assumed that 
> Johnny Mann was directing the choir for the session from in 
> front but BV told me that he was right in the middle of the 
> group singing. I have copies of some of Ernie's charts for 
> Devil Or Angel and Rubber Ball. He originally had written 
> the "bouncy bouncy" part on Rubber Ball for both "boys and
> girls"; that's the way he marked the sheet! I guess they 
> tossed the "boys" out after the first couple of takes!

Bob,

That's a cool story that Ernie eliminated the male 
singers from "Rubber Ball".  Guess he felt that it was
too corny having the guys sing "bouncy bouncy" as well. 
(Turned out to be a wise decision) Lol

The chart on "Devil or Angel" is a pop masterpiece!

Steveo



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