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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 23 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: Phil Chapman
2. Last Call
From: Mike Rashkow
3. Re: My Name Is Mud
From: James Botticelli
4. Re: worst singing
From: Robert R. Radil
5. Re: Beatle Myth
From: Art Longmire
6. fourth note of the arpeggio
From: Dr Mark
7. "Unchained Melody" / Hy Zaret
From: Mick Patrick
8. Re: worst singing
From: Mike McKay
9. Patty Duke
From: Phil Hall
10. Re: Songwriter Credits, Ringo Starr
From: Tom Taber
11. Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
From: Cleber
12. Dylan--4th & Crawl
From: Dan Hughes
13. Stars in the Sky
From: Jules Normington
14. Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
From: Eddy
15. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: Superoldies
16. Re: Mary Hopkin
From: Paul Bryant
17. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: Scott Charbonneau
18. Re: Songs that "quote" others
From: Scott Charbonneau
19. Re: Beatles Bands
From: John Sellards
20. Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
From: Art Longmire
21. Re: worst singing
From: Jeffery Kennedy
22. Re: "I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know"
From: Michael Coxe
23. Italian Drama
From: Julio Nino
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:19:21 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
> WHILE THE RECORD GOES AROUND//gimmick of reproducing a
> faulty record
Mark Hill:
> Kind of like: CURTIS LEE- "Pretty Little Angel Eyes" (07/61) and THE
> BEATLES- "Tell Me Why" (c.64) sound like syncopated, stuck/skipping
> records at the beginning of each. // Oh, no! One more list to start.
> More, please...
The intro to "Tell Me Why" reminded me of how the beat groups
used to play the intro to "Heatwave", and "Pretty Little Angel
Eyes" follows the "Rock Around The Clock" format.
For an obscure and quite sophisticated version of said 'gimmick',
check out Dionne Warwick's "I Smiled Yesterday". Bacharach & David
actually wrote a 'skip' bar as part of the middle-8. Being a true
anorak, I checked the tempo of the 'skip' section, and yes, it is
at 45 beats/minute.
It's almost certainly on CD somewhere, so I'll just play the relevant
section to musica to give you the idea.
Phil
PS - I did a crude version of the same idea, on the
ending of Little Nell's "See You Round Like A Record".
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:19:25 EST
From: Mike Rashkow
Subject: Last Call
Dear Friends and Lovers,
I'm getting ready to put together the package of notes for
Steve Tudanger. There are not as many as I hoped for, so if
you have nay familiarity with his work and want to drop him
a quick hello and thanks for the music kind of thing please
do it soon.
TO: boookedybookedy@aol.com
Thanks
Mike Rashkow
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:27:20 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: My Name Is Mud
Ken:
> Hi Ed Rambeau & welcome aboard, I didn't know about your
> version until i saw it appear in the US top fifty chart,
> and never heard it till years later. But I do remember
> "My Name Is Mud" as it got a lot of plays on "pirate radio"
> here in the UK. So I bought it.
Ed Rambeau:
> Glad to hear that, Ken. Save it.
> It may be worth big bucks some day. LOL
It already is Eddie...I bought the album for $11.99 last year
at a Used Record shop in Cambridge, MA...where things are
'priced to move'. And did it on the Summertime Guy knowledge
....Still really love that song. What's wrong with me?
JB
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:19:23 -0000
From: Robert R. Radil
Subject: Re: worst singing
Phil Milstein wrote:
> You cats think Tuesday Weld was a bad singer? I've got
> news for you, she was a regular Dionne Warwick compared
> to Patty Duke. The proof is now playing at musica, in the
> form of Andre & Dory Previn's "I'll Plant My Own Tree", a
> track from the album that ended her singing career, "Patty
> Duke Sings Songs From 'Valley Of The Dolls' And Other Selections
That's an embarrassment! But I recall her 1965 hit,
"Don't Just Stand There", was pretty good.
Bob Radil
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:28:16 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Beatle Myth
Doc Rock wrote:
> PS The Beatles LOVED American early '60s music!
Tom Taber:
> Haven't we all met a Beatles fan who loves everything
> they ever recorded, and at best is indifferent to, and
> at worst loathes, anything from the Brill Building?
> I'll never understand it.
Back in the late 60s and early 70s when I became a pop music
fan, rock revisionism had already reared its ugly head and it
was pretty common for writers to slam the whole early 60s era
in music.
Frequently it would be claimed that the Beatles (and Dylan)
"saved" the musical scene from insipid teenage idol music.
At first I didn't really question this all that much, but
after being exposed in 1971 to many of the really great
musical genres of the early 60's-early soul and Motown,
Phil Spector, Roy Orbison, girl groups, etc. - I learned to
disregard the revisionist B.S.
As you say, it can be annoying to come across those that
worship the Beatles' recordings but appear to have no idea
of where their original influences came from. It's the same
with Rolling Stones fans who have no knowledge whatever of
the black musical styles that influenced the Stones.
Art Longmire
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:00:44 -0500
From: Dr Mark
Subject: fourth note of the arpeggio
Rob Stride:
> This fourth note of the arpeggio thingy might be getting a
> little bit anorak.
Country Paul:
> No offense (US spelling) taken, Rob. But one of the great
> things about S'pop is that it has never been dumbed down.
Not only ain't it being dumbed down, it's members are getting
smartened up! I had to get out the Websters to look up ANORAK.
I thought it must be a misspelled word. But no...
anorak (ano rak) n. a heavy jacket with a hood, worn in the
cold north
So I assume you meant the chord references were a bit "heavy"
or over the top for the average poster? Not by me.
CP:
> There are comments I skip over, too, sometimes for excessive
> detail, sometimes for lack of interest, but I'm glad they're
> there.
I'm a pop music fan from the cradle (Over 40 years.) I have
been reveling in all the post about the minutia of songs that:
sound like others, quote from others, are *backwards* from others!
The looks into writing and production and distribution. There can't
be *too much* detail for me. That's why I'm here.
CP:
> (Nor am I the first person to cite a chord structure, etc.)
And as for the chord structures, being a totally non-instrument
playing person, have tried to decipher references like this for
years- in as much as how they make our favorite songs sound like
they do. I for one, would *welcome* an attempt from a musician to
explain one of these references - in layman's terms. Give us a pop
song or two with one of these "fourth note of the arpeggio thingy"s,
and explain why it is so.
CP:
> And besides, didn't I enrich your experience just a wee bit? :-)
You sure did!
Great Stuff! Keep It All Coming,
"Dr. Mark" Hill The Doctor Of Pop Culture
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:58:52 -0000
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: "Unchained Melody" / Hy Zaret
Phil Milstein:
> An absolutely fascinating interview with "Hy Zaret", who
> wrote the lyric to "Unchained Melody" at age 16 (with Der
> Bingle in mind)... can be found at:
> http://newstranscript.gmnews.com/news/2003/1203/Front_Page/047.html
> ...and never wrote another song professionally,...
But, but, what about "American Hymn"? And "Zoom A Little Zoom"?
And the 175 other songs that link these two, alphabetically
speaking, at ASCAP? BMI also accredit 4 songs to one "Hyman Zaret",
possibly the same person?
Talking of "Unchained Melody", it seems Al Hibbler had to
battle it out with Les Baxter, whose version actually outsold
his, reaching #1 on the Billboard chart. That great balladeer
Roy Hamilton also did very well with his reading that same year,
1955, as did June Valli with hers. The song was a hit again in
1963 for Vito & the Salutations (great), in 1968 for the Sweet
Inspirations (even better) and in 1981 for Heart (barf!). Sorry
if anyone's already said all this.
Anyway, the interview mentioned above is excellent. Y'all should
read it.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:12:50 EST
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: worst singing
Superoldies wrote:
> I personally never cared for Claudine Longet, and this
> could start another topic...most out of tune record. I
> recently heard the Four Sonics charter "You Don't Have
> To Say You Love Me"....whoa!
Definitely out of this group's bailiwick, but you owe it to
yourself sometime to hear "The Parakeet Polka" by Audrey Williams,
Hank's wife (and the inspiration for so many of his incomparable
songs of heartbreak -- somehow I've always felt her insistence on
singing in his shows was part of the mix, along with the cheating
and general bad treatment!).
Anyway, not only is her voice horrible beyond redemption, this
is one of the most awful songs you'll ever hear!
Mike
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:01:33 -0000
From: Phil Hall
Subject: Patty Duke
Phil Milstein wrote:
> You cats think Tuesday Weld was a bad singer? I've got news
> for you, she was a regular Dionne Warwick compared to Patty Duke.
I'll grant that she's no Whitney Houston, but her song
"One Kiss Away" is a fair representation of the entire
early 60s girl group sound, and she does a respectable
job on it. Is this track out on CD? If not, I could play
it to musica if a spot opens up.
Phil Hall
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:27:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Taber
Subject: Re: Songwriter Credits, Ringo Starr
Paul Bryant wrote:
> We know that Ringo Starr came up with a few Beatles song
> titles, like A Hard Day's Night and Tomorrow Never Knows
> - so should he get a credit? What's your opinion on this
> kind of thing?
I've thought since I heard about other songwriting
lawsuits that Ringo should own at least 10% of "A Hard
Day's Night."
Tom Taber
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:55:47 -0000
From: Cleber
Subject: Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
pmadreenter wrote:
> Austin, I don't know anything about Hank & Dave, but it wouldn't
> surprise me at all to learn that that was Vance & Pockriss
> themselves. They seem to have made up new names to perform under
> at the drop of a hat, just like Ray Hildebrand used-a do...
You mentioned Ray Hildebrand. I've got an 45's of him, That's very
very good: "Mr. Balloon Man". This Ray Hildebrand is the same gospel
singer ? What others names he used ?
Cleber
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:33:35 -0600
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Dylan--4th & Crawl
Doug said [of Crawl Out Your Window]:
> Of course "You Got A Lot Of Nerve To Say You Are My Friend" was the
> first verse of his previous hit "Positively 4th Street"
To which Jimmy Bee replied:
> I distinctly dismember our own Phil Milstein playing this on the radio.
> And thinking that THIS was truly Dylan's best ever rekkid.
Which one, Jimmy--4th St or Crawl?
Because as a totally-immersed Dylan fan I STILL feel that Crawl is my
all-time favorite Dylan record.
---Dan
P.S. As someone said of Sherlock Holmes, "He was never the same after he
fell over that waterfall," so Dylan was never the same after that
motorcycle accident....
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:42:26 +1100
From: Jules Normington
Subject: Stars in the Sky
Mark Frumento wrote:
> I wonder if anyone can tell me about Stars in the Sky and the Milky
> Way Band?...
> The A-side is a competent and catchy power pop song but the B-side
> has a heavy Phil Spector influence. It could certainly be a
> contender for a follow-up volume of Phil's Spectre? (hint hint).
Utterly awesome power-pop 45...one of the absolute classics of the 70's..not
that I can give you any more info on it...never a pic sleeve as far as I
know - I bought about 20 copies from the label back in '76 and sold them in
my shop here in Sydney, so every now and then I pick up a second hand
copy....which goes in a flash...a couple of bands here even did covers of it
(the 'A' side, that is....not that the 'B' is any lesser a song).
It's great to hear mention of this classic, as I've never heard it referred
to by anyone else for about 25 years. It's spot-on that BOTH sides are pure
gems....truly worth finding!
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:29:12 +0100
From: Eddy
Subject: Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
Steve Harvey wrote:
> John was on three songs for Highway 61 Revisited. Mr.
> Tambourine Man and two others.
Tambourine man is on Bringing it all back home...
Do you happen to know the other two songs Sebastian is on ?
Eddy
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:05:13 -0000
From: Superoldies
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
I don't know what the circumstances were (maybe they didn't get
permission to use the show's name after it was recorded), and this
might be out of the board's musical era...but rockabilly artist Doug
Powell cut "Jeannie With The Dark Blue Eyes" (Tip Top label, 1958).
Twice in the song there is a glaringly bad edit of a teen-TV show
name "I saw you rockin' on the___show, and all the cats were sayin'
go go go".
This is the worst example I can think of...a skip/bad edit where
there isn't one on the actual vinyl.
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:41:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Mary Hopkin
Phil Milstein wrote:
> I always found Those Were The Days awfully annoying
> -- was never a big one for the faux vaudeville/music
> hall/stein-lifters fad -- but she sounded terrific on
> Goodbye, and with that winsome face it's a wonder
> she wasn't a bigger star. Or was she, in
> UK/Europe/elsewhere?
"Postcard" is a great Paul McCartney side project, on
which he used Mary as the singer. I think she was
allowed to pick one song (the Welsh one), and she
liked the Donovan songs (he was Paul's pal at the
time) but the rest she hated with a passion. Me, I
love 'em all, espacially the weid slow version of
There's no business like show business, relete with
usually unsung introduction ("The butcher, the baker,
the grocer, the clerk are secretly unhappy men
because..."&c). So Paul was using Mary mercilessly,
just like Phil used his artists. Mary walked away as
soon as she was able too, and seems to have been one
of those people who were genuinely indifferent to
fame.
pb
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:02:29 -0000
From: Scott Charbonneau
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
Mike Nesmith's "Magnolia Simms," off of "The Birds, The Bees and The
Monkees" LP, utilizes the skipping/ scratching effect to replicate a
worn out 78. Apparently this track was inspired by Mike purchasing a
bunch of old 78s in a junk shop.
Scott
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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:00:40 -0000
From: Scott Charbonneau
Subject: Re: Songs that "quote" others
Buffalo Springfield's "Baby Don't Scold Me" quotes the opening riff
from "Day Tripper" during the instrumental break.
Scott
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:49:06 -0000
From: John Sellards
Subject: Re: Beatles Bands
Al Kooper wrote:
> The live shows were WAY different from the records. The bass
> player had a freakin MOHAWK the first time I went. They were
> VERY heavy metal live as they were strictly a trio without
> the benefit of the 4000 overdubs they employed in the studio.
That's exactly what I saw - the mowhawk, with the bass slung down so
far I told somebody afterwards every song was in E because that's the
only string he could reach. Sounds like I need to find the album,
since I filed them under metal noise in my head.
John Sellards
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:28:18 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
James Brown quotes from Little Willie John's "Fever" and his
own "Cold Sweat" in "Sex Machine". Also in "Oh Baby Don't You Weep"
he mentions Sam Cooke's "I'll Come Running Back To You" and Wilson
Pickett's "It's Too Late".
On "Mindrocker" the American Breed mention "Pretty Ballerina".
Arthur Conley in "Sweet Soul Music" quotes from several soul songs
and the song musically quotes from the Marlboro cigarette commercials.
I've always been a fanatical anti-smoker, but I've got to admit there
was a lot of great music used on TV ads in the days of cigarette
commercials. One of my absolute all-time favorite tunes is "The Dis-
Advantages of You" by the Brass Ring, used in the Benson and Hedges
cigarette commercials.
Art Longmire
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:41:13 -0000
From: Jeffery Kennedy
Subject: Re: worst singing
Phil Milstein wrote:
> You cats think Tuesday Weld was a bad singer? I've got news for
> you, she was a regular Dionne Warwick compared to Patty Duke.
LOL! I just picked up the Duke "Valley of the Dolls" LP a few months
ago and still haven't managed to pick my jaw up off the floor. Just
WHAT was she thinking? I mean, she wasn't much of a singer on her
earlier LPs, but they had their charm: She comes across as a spunky
teenager, her producers helped her sound passable (overdubs, loud
backing vocals, etc.), and some of the songs were strong enough. On
this LP, though, Duke tries to REALLY sing---with disasterous
results. The song that probably makes me laugh the loudest is "Learn
To Live With Your Heartbreak," which in addition to being badly sung
is overacted to the extreme. But I must confess that I'm rather fond
of "A Million Things To Do," an uptempo pop song with a surf edge.
Jeffery
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:57:55 -0800
From: Michael Coxe
Subject: Re: "I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know"
Bob Radil wrote:
> Regardless of your intentions, "I Love You More Than You'll Ever
> Know" ended up being one of my favorites. I was a bit dissapointed
> though last year when filling in on "The 60s Show" on WNHU/New Haven
> when I played it from CD and it turned out to be from a different
> take or recording from what I remember on the original vinyl LP.
Al Kooper replied:
> Could only have been the CD SOUL OF A MAN - which is a live album
> from 1995. BTW I just remixed CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN in 5.1
> Surround Sound and remastered the stereo tp SACD. Dont know when
> they'll (SONY Legacy) release it but it's darned good.
Bob responded:
> I don't know. It didn't sound live. I'll have to get my original LP
> out of storage and compare it to the CD at the station. If it *is*
> the same take after all, we can just blame my aging ears! In any
> case, I'll get back to you on this.
I think I can clear this up. The Columbia/Legacy reissue from 2000
of CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN contains 3 bonus tracks, listed as
mono audition recordings for John Simon all recorded Nov 11, 1967,
a month before the proper album recording sessions -- including
a version of "I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know". The 3 were also
on the 1994 Mastersound issue of the record too (which I don't own).
Btw, CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN is one of my all-time favorite records,
that along with the Rascals ONCE UPON A DREAM, clued this 60's teenager
into the modern pop music idiom, far beyond his tarheel R&R, Beach
Music & R&B roots. Thanks Al (& Steve, Fred, Bobby, Jim, Randy, Jerry
& Dick & arranger Catero).
As a minor side note, I've found it interesting that Michael Brown's
father Harry Lookofsky was one of the session violinists. A "Super
Piano Session" of Kooper, Brown & Argent (with hoardes of singers,
instrumentalists & an orchestra) might have been exciting ;>
- michael
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:17:07 -0000
From: Julio Nino
Subject: Italian Drama
Hi Everybody.
One of the many surprises I have experience in this list is to
discover some versions of Italian pop classics, either versions in
English by the original artist or English versions of the songs by
American or British artists.
Some examples:
Months ago I read about Gigliola Cinquetti's "My Prayer". The title
of the song sounded completely unknown to me, then I discovered
that it was "just" a version in English of her archetypical song,
"Non Ho l eta". Something similar happened to me with Mina's "This
World we Live in", Which I later discovered was her famous song "Il
Cielo in una stanza".
Today listening to "Tar and Cement", by Patricia Ann Michaels, now
playing in musica, I was again surprised to find that it was a
version of the classic by Adriano Celentano "Il ragazzo della via
Gluck" (very much superior, in my opinion, to Patricia Ann's
version; I also love the charming Francoise Hardy version).
Are These versions in English better known than the Italians
originals in UK and USA? Because, personally I think none of them
can compare with the originals. Maybe is difficult to translate the
cool Italian sense of drama to English words. Even Dusty Springfield,
champion of the Drama Queens, sounds a little bit "faux" to me in
"You Don´t Have to Say you Love me", comparing with Pino Donaggio´s
sublime original.
Chao,
Julio Nino
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