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Spectropop - Digest Number 1303
- From: Spectropop Group
- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004
________________________________________________________________________
SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
________________________________________________________________________
There are 26 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Richard Thompson on sound
From: Neb Rodgers
2. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: Robert R. Radil
3. Re: Highway 61 Revisited
From: Steve Harvey
4. Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
From: C. Ponti
5. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: steveo
6. Re: Mary Hopkin
From: Steve Harvey
7. Re: Songwriter Credits
From: Steve Harvey
8. Re: Songs that quote others
From: Steve Harvey
9. Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
From: Clark Besch
10. Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
From: Al Kooper
11. The Fab Seven
From: Bob Radil
12. Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
From: Clark Besch
13. Not in the movie
From: Al Kooper
14. Re: Fake Skipping Records
From: Clark Besch
15. Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
From: Orion
16. Question for Paul Evans - "Summer Souvenirs"
From: ACJ
17. Re: Colours CD
From: Clark Besch
18. Collecting; Jews in Doo Wop; new CD's; Ace country CD; Canadian Esquires; more
From: Country Paul
19. Sebastian & Boone & Dylan
From: Steve Harvey
20. Re: artists that "quote" themselves: Zappa
From: Peter Kearns
21. Re: Brand New Day
From: Al Kooper
22. Paris Sisters
From: Bill Reed
23. Re: songwriter credits
From: Paul Bryant
24. Re: Italian Drama
From: Paul Bryant
25. Re: Dylan's bike crash
From: C Ponti
26. Re: Italian Drama
From: Bill Reed
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:25:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Neb Rodgers
Subject: Richard Thompson on sound
English folkie Richard Thompson talks briefly about his taste in
recording and analog vs. digital here:
http://www.richardthompson-music.com/catch_of_the_day.asp?id=223
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:13:04 -0000
From: Robert R. Radil
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
> WHILE THE RECORD GOES AROUND//gimmick of reproducing a faulty record
I think it's on "Smiling Phases" by BS&T where if you play one channel,
the one without the keyboard solo, it sounds and *looks* like the
record is skipping because the beat matches the 33 RPM.
Bob Radil
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:57:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Highway 61 Revisited
Once again, Al, you're right. Guess YOU would know
about the sessions for Highway 61 Revisited. Meant to
say Bringing It All Back Home. John played bass on Mr.
Tambourine Man, On the Road Again, and Maggie's Farm.
I'll be sending a link about this if I can locate it
on the web.
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:46:48 -0000
From: C. Ponti
Subject: Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
The pictures in various books and magazine articles affirm that John
worked some of those sessions. Dylan's producer, John Hammond Sr. was
also a family friend of John, Mark and their dad, the harmonica
virtuoso John Sebastian. However in the Mojo piece both Boone and
Sebastian mused about whether John didn't refer Steve to do one of the
dates. Steve has memories of working some of the Dylan sessions.
C P
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:53:57 -0800 (PST)
From: steveo
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
How about intros: "Slowdown" (Beatles) or "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy"
(Buckinghams)? Steveo
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:14:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Mary Hopkin
The great thing about Mary Hopkin's debut was that the
hit was the worse thing on it. Everything else was
interesting and different from the rest. Love "George
Martin's "The Game". Wished he'd done an lp of tunes
like that.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:54:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Songwriter Credits
Okay Al, How would you judge something like "The Beat
Goes On" which mainly runs due to the riff Carol Kaye
came up with on bass. Musically that riff is what hooks
the listener and yet she has yet to get any writing
credit. However, considering Sonny never wrote "Needles
& Pins" and his name is on that I guess I shouldn't be
surprised.
Steve Harvey
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:16:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Re: Songs that quote others
Cheap Trick had a 10-inch record out in the '80s with "Daytripper". It
was either that tune or something else on that EP that lifted the solo
to the Yardbirds' "Think About It".
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:27:30 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
Actually, "All You Need Is Love" also quotes the word/song
"Yesterday" in there too, this time with John doing the honors!
Clark
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:11:47 EST
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Boone & Sebastian & Dylan
> The pre Beatles college kid in Al Kooper's post is actually
> Steve Boone. Went to the session with John S. and ended up
> playing on two or three cuts.
What about the photos of Sebastian playing bass? Are you saying
that it's not Sebastian? I think not. WHAT trax did Steve Boone
play on? I know of none that were released.
Al Kooper
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:23:29 -0000
From: Bob Radil
Subject: The Fab Seven
Austin Roberts:
> There were 7 Beatles, weren't there???
Of course! John, Paul, George, Ringo, George Martin,
Billy Preston, & Billy Shears! And don't forget The
Five Seasons, Autumn, Winter, Summer, Spring, & Fall!
Bob Radil
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:25:11 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Artists that "quote" themselves
Since you brought them up. James Brown copies his "I Feel Good"
on "Living in America" at the end--making it almost as great as the
first usage! Also, your mention of Arthur Conley makes he think that
song actually made its' "Living" off this subject, as did of course,
Spyder Turner's "Stand By Me". Clark
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:15:45 EST
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Not in the movie
> Songs w. Same Title As A Movies But Not Otherwise Related.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance by Gene Pitney - NOT in the movie
of the same name.
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:20:16 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Fake Skipping Records
Altho not a hit and more country (?), John Hartford's "Don't Leave
Your Records in the Sun" gives a funny and great take on what happens
and he "plays" the skip over and over in the song due to that hot sun
that has baked a few of mine on unfortunate occasions in the past.
Clark
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 20:51:39 -0600
From: Orion
Subject: Re: Ray Hildebrand Question
Cleber:
> You mentioned Ray Hildebrand. I've got a 45 of his that's very
> very good: "Mr. Balloon Man". Is this the same Ray Hildebrand?
> What other names did he use?
Holy Cow, I have been wanting to here Mr Balloon Man for years and yes
he is now a Christian singer. Anyway you could play Mr Balloon Man to
musica?
Orion
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:16:45 -0500 (EST)
From: ACJ
Subject: Question for Paul Evans - "Summer Souvenirs"
Paul Evans - if indeed you're out there: I've seen your website several
times, and it's a nice, professional, interesting job. (Much like its
subject.)
But in your list of songs you'd written, one song you didn't note - at
least not the last time I looked in - was "Summer Souvenirs," a tune you
co-wrote with J. Krondes and a single by one Karl Hammell, Jr. Any
memories of that song or that record?
Thanks, and I hope you're enjoying S'pop! (I am. Massively.)
ACJ
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:10:23 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Colours CD
> Colours first album is in serious need of a CD reissue!
Al Kooper:
> See Collectors Choice monthly catalogue. I'm pretty sure it was in
> there at one time recently and may still be. Cant look it up cause
> I gave my catalogue to a pal this month. Love that album myself.
The song "Love Heals" is one of the great psychedelic records of the
era. I really don't know why people continue to pan this record. I
played it a ton on my radio show in the 80's and in 68 when it was
new. I cannot believe it did not at least hit top 40. It was like
an anthem of the times to me. It also got a great push from Dot
Records too. WLS FM had adds all the time on "Spoke", their
underground show, when the Lp was out. A great one that may never be
realized. Clark
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:48:34 -0500
From: Country Paul
Subject: Collecting; Jews in Doo Wop; new CD's; Ace country CD; Canadian Esquires; more
Phil Milstein on our fascination with music, why we collect, etc.:
> I feel pretty well reconciled to my childhood. But I do understand
> and share [the] point about "pieces of a puzzle" -- in fact much
> of my fascination with older pop music, as well as older cultural
> history of all stripes, is to help feed my interest in trying to
> piece together as much of the essence...of a time and place as I
> possibly can, the ultimate goal being to feel in my bones what it
> was like to have been there.
"Being there" is part of it, remembering the feeling of having been
introduced to a new sound for the first time, occasionally where I was, etc.
But I have no desire to do the impossible and return to living in the 50s,
60s or 70s. Sure there were good times in each decade, but I'm glad to "be
here now."
Phil continues;
> Sometimes it's a time and place I do know from personal experience
> yet only hazily remember, but most often it's one I wasn't present
> for, but have learned to admire from afar. By extension part of my
> interest in history is to better understand how we (alright: I)
> arrived at this exact moment, but another part of it is purely for
> its own sake.
A lot of music indeed comes with memories attached (some good and some less
so), but as I delve deeper into earlier styles, my main desire is not to
evoke an era but to discover a new (or new version of a) sound that excites,
inspires, or otherwise commands my attention. The music history we discuss
is fascinating; I enjoy knowing the story behind the music, but in the end,
as it has always been for me, it's what's in the grooves that counts, and I
appreciate the knowledge of those who are hip to more grooves than I and who
are willing to share their knowledge and their musical tastes. I like Mop
Top Mike's quote: "It doesn't matter WHEN a piece of music was recorded - it
is how that piece of music makes you feel NOW."
Enough philosophy.
JB:
> ...Here in the Northeast U.S. several people called The Blues
> Project the Jewish Beatles!
First, thank you, Al Kooper of "The Jewish Beatles" for the rundown on the
Aurora 45; you answered many long-wondered-about aspects of it. Second, I'm
with you re: stamping out revisionist history. Glad you're here to do it.
And third, so what about "Short Shorts," or have I not yet caught up to that
response?
Which reminds me - a friend has invited me to a live presentation in
February called "Jews In Doo Wop" at an area Jewish center. It advertises
itself as "the 'Inside Scoop' on the Jewish song-writers, musicians and
singers of 50s and early 60s Rock & Roll." We'll be able to "see and hear
some of your favorite oldies performed"; credits not given. I have no idea
who the "music maven" will be either, but it's sure to be an interesting
night - or maybe that might be "interesting"! I'll report. (If anyone wants
to know more, please contact me off-list. Maybe we should stock with place
with an S'pop "truth squad." Hey, it works in politics! Any original artists
want to show up, too? "Admission is free. All are welcome.")
Mark Radice, still getting into your very nice "It Sounds Like Us" album -
"One False Move" is the favorite of the first half so far. Super song! You
have a great way with words and wordplay, too. And I may have inadvertantly
shortchanged Orgone Box - the self-titled album has some astounding music on
it, but the album of demos, "Things That Happened Then," is not too shabby
either - half way through, the title track and "Last Ride On The Jets" are
the first two prime tracks. Beatles and psych fans, they sometimes *do* make
'em like they used to - and still serve 'em fresh!
Paul Bryant cites Ace CDCHD 845, Various Artists: Golden Age Of American
R'n'R, Special Country Edition:
http://66.232.131.72/cgi-bin/SearchCatNo.asp?intSite=1&strProdID=CDCHD845
All are country hits which crossed over to pop radio (but I question Carl
Butler, which is VERY deep country). For the uninitiated or the newcomer,
it's a superb package. For the rest of us, it's still very cool. And Paul,
thanks for citing the movie "Peggy Sue Got Married." The line you quote did
come from that, one of the rare flicks that "got it right." Damn fine movie.
Herb from Toronto, if you're responsible for the charts on the CHUM pages,
then I congratulate and thank you - your research actually led me to find a
copy of The Esquires' wonderful "So Many Other Boys" (Capitol of Canada,
1964-65), one of my all-time favorite non-British "invasion" records. It's a
shame that (1) the song never crossed the border to the south and (2) seems
to have never made it to an album. Unfortunately, I had to get a bootleg CD
to get the song, but 38 years after my then-girlfriend turned my 45 into a
potato chip in the rear window of her car(!) I finally have a copy. Do you
know (1) anything about this group? and (2) if there is a legit
issue/reissue of this track? I have their 1965 album (which excludes this
song), but it's unfortunately a ho-hummer in comparison to the single. Also,
(3) did they record anything else in this vein and of this quality? (Any
other cognizenti of Canadian music are also invitesd to respond, please.)
...And the proverbial "more":
Clark Besch:
> A song I'd been trying to think of by Randy [Van Warmer] was his
> later 45, "Suzy". Quite a different sounding vocal for him on it.
> No ballad here! Pretty cool record if you find it. Also on
> Bearsville.
And also excellent. I'd forgotten it was a single; we played it from the
album on WHCN. Another shoulda-been-a-hit. Thanks for shaking up my memory
bank! (I still can't believe he's passed.)
Julio, thanks for the Millie info.
Mike McKay, Subject: Elvis Sun Records master tapes:
> To me, this sounds like messing with a very significant piece of
> rock 'n' roll history for the sake of making a few bucks. What
> say you?
Disgusting. Shameful. Everything is for sale. Nothing is sacred. On the
other hand, now that they've no doubt been digitally preserved, who's going
to play them again?
Special thanks to Phil M. for all the cool music off-list, including a
version of the Skyliners' "Comes Love" by the Marcels using the same
instrumental track! FYI, the Skyliners - or rather, a Skyliners group with
original lead singer Jimmy Beaumont - is performing in northeastern
Pennsylvania on February 20th. If interested, I'll post details.
Country Paul
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:13:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Harvey
Subject: Sebastian & Boone & Dylan
Here is the link for the Dylan sessions for Bringing
It All Back Home. Both John Sebastian and John (sic)
Boone are listed as bass players. The third bassist
was actually Spike Lee's pop! Small world.
http://www.expectingrain.com/dok/who/l/leewilliame.html
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:06:34 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: Re: artists that "quote" themselves: Zappa
It appears to me that the most self-quoted of all would have to Frank
Zappa.
Though he did of course quote much music from Louie Louie to The
Rite Of Spring, he had a self-relating thread running through all of his
stuff. It was so intricate and complex that you could hear anything
at any time. He'd quote whole sections of his stuff sometimes, but
more often it would be lyrics and even actual instrument parts
cropping up in another song.
They were often so subtle that even a self-confessed Zappa nut like
me could miss them. And even now I still notice him self-quoting in
pieces I've been familiar with for years and years.
One of my favourite examples is a pretty obvious one where he takes a
whole instrumental section from Sheik Yerbouti's 'Wild Love' and
inserts it right into his stunning instrumental piece 'Sinister
Footwear 2' (which in fact began life as an orchestral piece). The
stunningly beautiful section sounds like it belongs in both and
indeed I can't be certain which was composed first, but I'd guess
at 'Wild Love' being the source.
Zappa kinda spoiled me for a few years to the point where I had
trouble listening to anything else. But I recovered. haha. :-)
Peter.
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:01:12 -0000
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Brand New Day
Phil Chapman writes:
> Hey Al, your mention of "Brand New Day" triggered one of
> my earliest recollections of a studio 'scene'........
> Did you get to hear this version?
No, but I've heard about it. Vicki Wickham led me to understand
that it was the group LaBelle who were the artists on it as
opposed to just Patti. I'd love to hear it though.
Al Kooper
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 17:53:06 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Paris Sisters
I had breakfast the other a.m. with Clancy Grass, husband of
Albeth Paris. Naturally, the subject of the Paris Sisters came
up, and while I didn't get all the details, it looks like a
Sisters website is on the cards for the near future. I will
keep the group informed about this.
Also, Clancy presented me with a copy of Albeth's new CD, Dream
a Little Dream. Not in the Brill Bldg vein, instead Albeth sings
a batch of standards: I Remember You, I've Got a Crush on You,
Give Me the Simple Life, Nowadays, etc. And, most interestingly,
a very quiet and effective version of I Love How You Love Me,
the trio's signature hit.
IMHO the hardest kind of singing in the world to bring off --
even more difficult than grand opera -- is just straightforward,
believable, felt, no-nonsense, on pitch, swinging pop singing.
i.e. "No scatting puh-leeze!" And Albeth Paris, who might never
have performed w/o her sisters before (not quite sure) does this
about as well as anyone around right now. Very impressive solo
"debut"(?).
Bill Reed
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:34:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: songwriter credits
Al Kooper wrote:
> If you're hired to write a string arrangement on a
> Jewel track, and you come up with soaring original
> countermelodies and take a 5-chord song and make it
> sound like Debussy, you are not a songwriter. You're
> a damn good arranger doing a great job and being
> compensated for it.
That's for that. You give us the ground on which we
can stand in this article. And you allayed my Beatle
fears too, because sometimes I kind of think that
George Martin DID deserve a songwriting credit. Two
examples among many: they recorded In My Life and
left a 32 bar gap (?) and told George Martin to fill
it in -- you'll think of something! they said cheerily
as they breezed out of the studio -- and he did, the
famous speeded up baroque interlude; and Being for the
Benefit of Mr Kite, when John told him to make it
sound like an old-fashioned carnival, and lo! he did.
But no, you're right, it still doesn't make him the
co-writer.
pb
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:43:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Italian Drama
Julio Nino wrote:
> One of the many surprises I have experience in this list
> is to discover some versions of Italian pop classics, either
> versions in English by the original artist or English versions
> of the songs by American or British artists.
I would love it if you could confirm if these songs were all
originally Italian. The first two were Dusty hits and the last
three hits by Cilla Black (the Ethel Merman of Merseyside)
All I See Is You
Give Me Time
You're My World
Love's Just A Broken Heart
A Fool Am I
And I'd be fascinated to know about any other US/British
ballads of the '60s which were originally Italian. And did
they stop writing them in the '70s or was it that British and
American singers stopped steal ... sorry, adapting them.
pb
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:26:33 -0000
From: C Ponti
Subject: Re: Dylan's bike crash
Dan Hughes:
> PS Dylan was never the same after that motorcycle accident.
Dan, There are also those who have opined that the motorcycle
accident was nothing more than just Bobby coming off the bike,
which happens to all riders at one point. I have read somewhere
that it was no more than Zimmerman and his spinmeisters trying
to build the James Dean-type myth by making it sound more dramatic
than it was. He did this a lot in telling his life story when he
was trying to re-invent his past. I don't know who to believe.
I guess Albert Grossman's widow, Sally would know ... or Al Kooper...
C Ponti
P.S. When John Wesley Harding came out many of us DID believe
he had gone around the bend.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 26
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:17:28 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Re: Italian Drama
Julio:
> Months ago I read about Gigliola Cinquetti's "My Prayer".
> The title of the song sounded completely unknown to me,
> then I discovered that it was "just" a version in English
> of her archetypical song, "Non Ho L'eta".
Mariya Takeuchi sings this on her recent hit Japanese CD
"Longtime Favorites." The song was a huge hit in Japan at
the time of its initial release in 1964 (they love canzione).
It won a major award at San Remo that year, the same year that
Nino and April performed there (video is available SOMEWHERE).
Cinquetti remains such a big star in Japan that she was still
releasing Live in Tokyo double CD's there as recently as '93.
> Today listening to "Tar and Cement", by Patricia Ann Michaels,
> now playing in musica, I was again surprised to find that it
> was a version of the classic by Adriano Celentano "Il ragazzo
> della via Gluck"
Mel Carter has a beautiful "Tar and Cement", arr. by Nick DeCaro.
Bill Reed
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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