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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Tex & The Chex
From: Jonathan
2. Re: Arrangers
From: Mike Rashkow
3. Re: December's Children
From: Jeff Lemlich
4. Re: Arrangers
From: Chris Schneider
5. Re: Arrangers
From: Rodney Rawlings
6. Re: Knickerbockers
From: Austin Roberts
7. Re: Steve Venet
From: Al Kooper
8. Re: Arrangers
From: Austin Roberts
9. Jack Nitzsche at Spectropop update
From: Martin Roberts
10. Re: C. Carson Parks & Somethin' Stupid
From: Phil X. Milstein
11. Crime Story
From: Ken Silverwood
12. Re: Knickerbockers
From: Peter Grad
13. Arrangers and Engineers
From: Teri Landi
14. Re: Judgement Time for The Magoos
From: Al Kooper
15. Re: Rearrange Arrangers Props
From: Al Kooper
16. Re: Sounds Of Silence overdubs / Tommy Boyce / Knickerbockers
From: Phil X. Milstein
17. Re: Arrangers
From: Bob Celli
18. Re: Accuracy of Top 40 Playlists
From: Clark Besch
19. Re: December's Children
From: Clark Besch
20. Re: "Roses Are Red (My Love)"
From: Clark Besch
21. Re: Tommy Boyce
From: ACJ
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:48:27 -0000
From: Jonathan
Subject: Re: Tex & The Chex
Hal, Alan...guys --
Rod Bristow and I used to hang as a writer/photographer team back
in the early 70s. He called his photography business, "Rod-Tex
Pictures," a play on "takes pictures" and of course, his tenure
with Tex and the Chex. We were both Bronx boys -- Rod lived over
by Pelham Parkway, then; I lived off the Grand Concourse. We were
both making our bones in the world of rock magazines. I don't think
we ever sold a story/photo-spread to anyone. But I had a ball with
Rod who was the best rock'n roll paparazzi I ever met. There wasn't
a musician or rock star who didn't dig Rod. Peter Wolf, Roberta
Flack, Miles Davis -- inside of three minutes, everybody wanted to
hang with this dude. And they did. After Rod took Miles' picture,
Miles called him up and tried to get Rod to be his sparring partner.
I don't know which was funnier -- the message Miles left on Rod's
machine, trying to sweet-talk him into getting in the ring with him
or, Rod's instant, "hell, no" rsvp. Rod was so upbeat and positive
and looking back, I wish I had ears to hear the wisdom he was
constantly trying to drill into my head. I had a whole lot of fun
with him, though.
Mostly operating outside the typical record company p.r. departments
and the access they offered, we chased the bands in rented cars and
-- thanks to Rod -- always ended up backstage. Rod later went on to
helm "Soul Sounds," a good little music monthly in which he gave me
a column, "Profiles in Black and White." One of those columns I
wrote about a Carnegie Hall concert we covered together: Van Morrison
and a young supporting act, Nils Lofgren. After the concert, Rod was
already so tight with Van, the two drove to Cambridge, MA, together.
The following week, Rod, who harvested every worthwhile opportunity
that came his way, was hanging down in MD at Nils Lofgren's house,
getting pictures for our story. He also took the cover photo of
Roberta Flack's 2nd or 3rd album ("Chapter Two"?). The first night I
met Rod, he drove me out to Queens to introduce me to his best friend,
Freddy "Hey Girl" Scott. The last time Rod's name came up was a few
years ago, talking to Freddy. He said Rod was living in Puerto Rico,
playing baseball -- but still protective of Rod's privacy, didn't feel
at liberty to give me Rod's number. I wish he would have. I miss Rod
immensely; I'd love to talk to him, if only to apologize for having
such a hard head back then. Freddy, give up that phone number.
--- Jonathan
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:57:26 EDT
From: Mike Rashkow
Subject: Re: Arrangers
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame doesn't
> even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60, who were
> responsible for creating every note the studio orchestras played
> except for the melody of the song and formed the sound of the time.
I second that notation.
Rashkovsky
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:01:42 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Re: December's Children
Billy G. Texas:
> ... 1968 Survey from KEEL radio in Shreveport. The number one
> record that week is "Backwards and Forwards" by Decembers
> Children. Anyone know the label of this 45 and if its any good?
Gary Myers:
> Osborne's price guide lists groups by that name on Capitol,
> Columbia, Liberty, Twin, World Pacific and Mainstream.
This December's Children came from Central Florida, and recorded (in
chronological order) for Capitol, World Pacific, and Liberty. While
the groups on Mainstream and Twin recorded in Florida, they were not
related to the "Backwards And Forwards" group.
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Schneider
Subject: Re: Arrangers
Alanl22000 wrote:
> It makes no sense that thr Hall of Fame doesn't even approach
> the subject of arrangers...
And your top five nominees would be?
Chris "Never A New Love Will Be The Same" Schneider
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:09:47 -0000
From: Rodney Rawlings
Subject: Re: Arrangers
alanl22000 wrote:
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame
> doesn't even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60,
> who were responsible for creating every note the studio orchestras
> played except for the melody of the song and formed the sound of
> the time.
If that is true, it certainly is a scandal.
I used to wonder about the records I loved: Who were those singers in
the back? Who was it exactly who played those instruments? Who wrote
that arrangment? At one time I thought this was information no one
else cared about, and that it was forever lost in the mists of the
past.
Then I discovered the Internet, the oldies sites (I think The
Wanderer was first), and Spectropop.
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:16:20 EDT
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
Peter:
> Conversation has focused on Long Island groups... but I see someone
> mentioned the Knickerbockers ("Lies," "One Track Mind"). Few may
> know that this English-sounding group was headed by two brothers
> from the Bronx (names escape me at moment) but they grew up in the
> same building I did in the 50's and 60's: 660 Arnow Ave., Parkside
> Projects in the northeast Bronx.
Buddy Randall (Crandall) the lead singer, sax player lived on
Knickerbocker Rd. in New Jersey near Tenafly (may have been Bergen).
The brothers were Bo and John Charles (guitar and bass). We lived in
the same building in North Hollywood and got to be good friends,
especially Buddy and I. Hey Al, wasn't Buddy in the Royal Teens?
Austin Roberts
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:48:27 EDT
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Steve Venet
bonicaj:
> Can anyone tell me whatever happened to Steve Venet? I know that
> his brother Nik passed away. Thanks.
I, too, would like to find Steve Venet. If his whereabouts surface
on here, I promise to tell a great Steve Venet anecdote circa 63-'64.
Al Kooper
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:31:23 EDT
From: Austin Roberts
Subject: Re: Arrangers
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame doesn't
> even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60, who were
> responsible for creating every note the studio orchestras played
> except for the melody of the song and formed the sound of the time.
I nominate Jimmie Haskell.
Austin Roberts
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:00:24 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: Jack Nitzsche at Spectropop update
Donnie Brooks' "If I Never Get To Love You" (Reprise) is the
ROTW playing on the home page:
http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/index.htm
You may recall this track being discussed in Jack's BOMP!
interview. I'm pleased to play it and legitimately give a name
check to my favourite football/soccer club! Now if I can just
find a way to mention the finest flower shop in the South East...
Martin
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:50:36 -0400
From: Phil X. Milstein
Subject: Re: C. Carson Parks & Somethin' Stupid
Karen Andrew wrote:
> It's funny that Frank Sinatra did not like "Strangers in the Night".
> That was one of his most famous songs, at least in his later years.
> But, I just think it was a sexy, sort of magical song, especially if
> you let your thoughts wonder while listening to it. Well, we all
> have our likes and dislikes, heh?
One of my Franklikes is "Somethin' Stupid," his 1966 duet with Nancy
Withthelaughingeyes. I recently came upon the very enjoyable website
of C. Carson Parks, who is founder of the Greenwood County Singers,
brother of Van Dyke, and author of "Somethin' Stupid":
http://www.ccarsonparks.com
Although the site appears to be somewhat inactive, there are still
some great photos (including one of he and VDP in the early-teen duet
Steeltown Players (or something like that), good stories, and a
handful of sound files. One of my favorite illustrations there is a
scan of a sheet music cover to F & N's version of "S.S.," autographed
to Carson by Nancy (who, in addition to all her other talents, has
excellent penmanship).
One other thing I learned from the site is that Carson himself, in a
post-Greenwood County Singers duet with Gaile Foote, first recorded
"Something [sic] Stupid." I'd love to hear that track. Can anyone help?
A few other interesting and relevant sites I played at yesterday:
Mick Farren's 1969 interview with a candid and cantankerous Gene Vincent:
http://www.thanatosoft.freeserve.co.uk/undergroundfiles/genevincent1.htm
An excellent Bacharach database:
http://www14.brinkster.com/hitmaker
J.C. Marion presents four different online music mags, covering '40s/
'50s pop; R&B; doo-wop and Hawaiian music, consisting mainly of
concise features about many recording stars of varying levels of
success. Not much on graphics or navigation, but the text is
consistently terrific enough to warrant many return visits.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymar41/
Dig,
--Phil M.
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:41:37 +0100
From: Ken Silverwood
Subject: Crime Story
Al Kooper:
> When I scored the TV series CRIME STORY in '86/'87, I also was
> hired to pick the records played in the show...
Hi Al, Did you have anything to do with Del Shannon's remake of
"Runaway" which was used for the series, I think as the theme tune,
& did you ever work with him in his time at Liberty records?
Ken On The West Coast
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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:54:00 -0000
From: Peter Grad
Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> Few may know that this English-sounding group (the Knickerbockers)
> was headed by two brothers from the Bronx (names escape me at
> moment)
> Funny how that happens, isn't it? You must mean Beau and John
> Charles. (I think it was Beau who passed away a couple years ago).
> The band also included Buddy Randell, formerly of the Royal Teens.
> We played their off-night at the Red Velvet in Hollywood for a few
> weeks just before "Lies" hit. Very good band, and I remember them
> doing "I Know A Place", the only time I ever saw a band do that
> song.
Yes, Gary, Beau and John, that's their names! I had no idea one of
them passed away... they were a few years older than me, so they were
either approaching or maybe already in their 60's.
Was their version of "I Know A Place" the same as Petula Clark?
They also had one of the first jazz songs I ever liked, a classic,
which, here I go again with my forgetfulness, was something like
Midnight Interlude or Almost Midnight, something like that.. I have
the album tucked away but I can look it up, it was an instrumental
on their Lies album. Anyway, they did a commendable job with that
jazz song...
One other Northeast Bronx tidbit, somthing of interest to me and my
old bandmate but probably not to many other folks, but as a student
in Christopher Columbus High School in 1965, I joined with my friend
Phil and a drummer named Shelly to form a group we cleverly named the
Vanilla Fudge (Phil and I were white, Shelley black), and toured the
area at parties, Bronx House (Kind of like a Y), and street fairs...
Around 66, or maybe 67, we suddenly started hearing "You Keep Me
Hanging On" by this "other" group with the same name as us, and we
suddenly were swamped with calls from old classmates screaming that
they heard us on the radio. We had a lot of fun with that, and began
telling them, yeah, that's us, we finally made it... we had no idea
that one of the members of the "other" Vanilla Fudge in fact lived in
the Bronx, too, and if memory serves me well (though it doesn't
always) he lived on Adee Avenue off Allerton and White Plains Road.
(and later moved to New Jersey). We always wondered if they saw our
posters or if their choice of name was just coincidence...
Peter
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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:56:09 -0400
From: Teri Landi
Subject: Arrangers and Engineers
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame
> doesn't even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60,
> who were responsible for creating every note the studio
> orchestras played except for the melody of the song and formed
> the sound of the time.
Engineers as well. Larry Levine, Dave Hassinger, Geoff Emerick,
Glyn Johns, Bones Howe, Joe Tarsia and Tom Dowd all deserve their
rightful place in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.
The Girl Group and Garage/Pyschedelia genres are also ignored.
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:33:06 EDT
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Judgement Time for The Magoos
Dave O'Gara:
> A couple of recents posts here mentioned both Rick Nelson and the
> Blues Magoos. It reminded me of a discovery I made many years ago
> that the intro to Rick's "Summertime" and the Blues Magoos "We Ain't
> Got Nothin' Yet" are very, very similar. Anyone else ever notice? Not
> being a musician, I'm curious if stuff like this happens by accident,
> (maybe the Magoos never even heard the Nelson song), or is it a case
> of embellishment? Some food for thought?
Glad you noticed that, Dave. I ALWAYS thought The Magoos completely
stole poor Rick's (actually probably James Burton, the guitarist's)
licks from their version of "Summertime". I believe chronology is on
Rick's side. Help us out those with date books, por favor. Maybe The
Blues Magoos called the song that for that very reason.
Al Kooper
a much more subtle thief (musically speaking)
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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:38:52 EDT
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Rearrange Arrangers Props
alanl22000:
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame doesn't
> even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60s, who were
> responsible for creating every note the studio orchestras played
> except for the melody of the song and formed the sound of the time.
Oh yeah,
Jimmie Haskell
Teacho Wiltshire
Alan Lorber
Chas. Calello
Artie Butler
HB Barnum
Quincy Jones
Burt Bacharach
Mike Stoller
Jack Nitzsche
Van McCoy
Donny Hathaway
Don Costa
Paul Buckmaster
and
George Martin
thats just off the top of my head. I knowI left some giants out. But
what about these musical saviours? No credit or awards.
Al "I'm Not Worthy" Kooper
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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:56:20 -0400
From: Phil X. Milstein
Subject: Re: Sounds Of Silence overdubs / Tommy Boyce / Knickerbockers
Heard Sounds Of Silence today, while lunching in a Mexican restaurant
(which used to play only Mexican music, but now resorts to the
ubiquitous Classic Hits radio feed). It was the first time I'd heard
the song since our recent thread in which we (inconclusively, I believe)
discussed who played the electric overdubs Tom Wilson produced for S&G's
acoustic tracks. With that in mind, I was struck by how seamless, and
natural, those overdubs sound! And this despite the fact of this
production being done in a manner opposite the standard -- rhythm
tracks, of course, are usually put down first, which I imagine is to
provide a steady foundation over which the melodists can then play their
somewhat freer parts.
Perhaps the producers among us can offer some thoughts on SOS having
been done as voices and acoustic guitar first, with drums, bass and
electric guitar added in a later session. Do they think it'd really be
as difficult to pull off well as I imagine it would be?
Gary Myers:
> He sat in with us once in '67 (we were backing Ray Peterson at the
> time) and I took a songwriting seminar from him in '76. He seemed
> like such a positive guy, I was quite shocked at his final choice.
Anyone know anything about the source of Tommy's depression? I've
interviewed Bobby Hart a couple of times, and we spoke about Tommy's
early days in the business, but I never quite worked up the nerve to ask
about his demise.
> Conversation has focused on Long Island groups... but I see someone
> mentioned the Knickerbockers ("Lies," "One Track Mind"). Few may know
> that this English-sounding group was headed by two brothers from the
> Bronx (names escape me at moment) but they grew up in the same
> building I did in the 50's and 60's: 660 Arnow Ave., Parkside
> Projects in the northeast Bronx.
Then how is it they (apparently) named their band after a road in Bergen
County, N.J.?
--Phil M.
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 01:48:05 -0000
From: Bob Celli
Subject: Re: Arrangers
alanl22000 wrote:
> What about arrangers!! It make no sense that the Hall of Fame
> doesn't even approach the subject of arrangers of the early 60s...
Hi, I agree wholeheartedly! Guys like Ernie Freeman, Dick Jacobs,
Lincoln Mayorga, Artie Butler et al. All major talents lending their
genius to some of the best recordings ever made!
Bob
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:44:26 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Accuracy of Top 40 Playlists
Bobster, had WCFL been up against WLS in 1963 or 4 and done all they
did in 66-68 era, I might be WCFLClark. I grew up on WLS before CFL
made that dent starting with their gradual switch to top 40 in late
65. CFL had many new wrinkles, (or as Barney Pip put it to
me, "gimmicks") including catering to youth more than established
WLS. Remember that in the early 60's, the "MOR stuff such as
Sinatra, Any Williams, etc" that you speak of was BIG top 40 music.
Thus as the pop scene changed in the mid 60's, WLS changed slowly,
while WCFL just blew on the scene with the teen scene and younger DJs
and program managers, while LS continued with the tried and
true "Silver Dollar Survey" until 1967, playing many MOR cuts and Lp
cuts (especially in the AM). When Larry Lujack entered the foray,
the survey became the "Hit Parade" and Lujack began to liven up
things. I don't know how many times I was irritated by Larry missing
playing a song or mentioning a song on the countdown. I had become
accustomed to the Dex Card accuracy level. Yet, Lujack became my
fave DJ of all.
WLS had a tough time when CFL became hot. I agree that CFL was great
and I loved both stations. CFL's Capsule Countdown and "Mini Spins"
(1 minute edits of chart songs edited into a montage) allowed more
songs played per hour, thus WLS then went to less personality and
more 6 in a row like things. WLS was also hindered by ABC policy.
They didn't rid themeselves of the Breakfast Club until 68. It was
had to get contests on quickly due to ABC policies. CFL (Chicago
Federation of Labor station) got things pushed thru quickly. They
did remotes from the Cheetah all the time. It was much easier and
Ken Draper was a wizard programmer.
WLS continued to program to the masses thru the early 70s. Good
example was the Vogues songs getting airplay long after their
national charters had died off. If Gene Taylor had not stolen Lujack
from CFL within 6 months of his CFL debut, who knows what would have
become of LS by 69.
Great memories! Clark
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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:54:59 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: December's Children
Billy, the December's Children 45 came witha lyric sleeve and was on
World Pacific. The song is ok and is a gimmick of a line repeated
backwards. Their great one was before that. They did "The Lovin
Things" 6 months before the Grass Roots and if you'd heard it first,
you'd think the Grass Roots was very lame (as I did) when it came
out. Very powerful when done by December's Children. A fave....Clark
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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 03:04:04 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: "Roses Are Red (My Love)"
Paul, Yes, I've heard your demo and it is quite cool to hear! I
really like Vinton's record, but it has not been a fave because it
came a couple years before I really got into music big time. My
brother had the record and loved it when it was out, as he does today
still. He also had "7 Little Girls" which we all liked as
kids.....Clark
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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:28:29 -0400
From: ACJ
Subject: Re: Tommy Boyce
The discussion of Tommy Boyce reminds me: During the 1970s, Tommy
co-wrote a book called "How To Write A Hit Song ... And Sell It,"
which was advertised in publications like The National Enquirer.
Anyone read that book? Was/is it worth reading?
ACJ
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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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