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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: copyright law
From: Phil Milstein
2. Re: Hollies -- mono vs. stereo
From: Mike McKay
3. that mellow saxophone
From: Phil Hall
4. Re: label-go-round
From: Austin Powell
5. Donna Marie - Penthouse
From: Martin Roberts
6. Re: Chicago/Milwaukee DJs
From: Clark Besch
7. P.S. on Harvey Kubernik
From: Martin Roberts
8. Re: Pied Piper
From: Gary
9. Re: Pied Piper - Crispian St. Peters
From: Richard Havers
10. Re: Wally Gold & "It's My Party"
From: Gary Myers
11. Al Gorgoni
From: Dave Feldman
12. The Metropolitan Soul Show
From: Simon White
13. You Can't Lose Something You Never Had
From: Simon White
14. Re: Back to Mono
From: Billy G. Texas
15. Re: Dickie Lee / She's Walking Away
From: Bob Rashkow
16. Mono and Stereo at Western
From: Doc Rock
17. Boyce and Hart / Mamas and the Papas
From: Karen Andrew
18. Re: Schlagers
From: Art Longmire
19. Re: Back to Mono
From: Mike McKay
20. Nashville Combos of the '50s-'70s
From: Nick Archer
21. Re: Donna Marie's Penthouse
From: John Hamilton
22. Re: Top 40 Playlists
From: Clark Besch
23. New York Rock Ensemble
From: Jim Shannon
24. Re: Donna Marie's Penthouse
From: John Hamilton
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:04:51 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: copyright law
Scott Swanson wrote:
> I think there is a key difference between your examples and what's been
> happening in the 21st century: most of your examples (making tapes for
> friends, videotaping TV shows, etc.) involve a significant loss in sound or
> video quality. The industry accepted tape copying in the '70s and '80s
> because they knew it could never be a threat to "the real deal".
I agree with most of your points, Scott, but I think it's a bit
disingenuous to say that the industry ever quite "accepted" tape
copying, or at least not until they ran out of other options. Don't you
recall their long and arduous efforts to lobby Congress for a "tape
tax," as well as other similarly noxious concepts?
--Phil M.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:12:08 EDT
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Hollies -- mono vs. stereo
Billy G Spradlin wrote:
> As for BAD stereo mixes, one of my all-time favorite groups is the
> Hollies, but even when Abbey Road had 4-track recorders their
> producer Ron Richards mixed almost everything they did hard-right/
> left until the "Butterfly" album in 1968.
The Hollies are one of my all-time favorite groups as well, but this situation
was NOT redressed on the 3-CD 30th Anniversary set. For this comp, the
early stuff was mixed into true stereo, but just as with The Mamas & Papas,
they spread the vocals all across the stereo spectrum instead of massing
them. Again, a mind-numbingly incomprehensible decision -- only this time
you can't pass it off as the result of not really understanding stereo mixing,
as you might with the M's & P's.
The blend, fer cryin' out loud, the blend! That's the point with both groups.
Why on earth would you want their vocals widely separated from one another?
I've got so many Hollies comps it's sometimes hard to keep them straight, but
I believe the "At Abbey Road" series has most all of the early stuff in mono,
which is the ONLY proper way to hear these tracks. This is doubly so because
early Hollies tends to be thin-sounding instrumentally as well, and separating
the instruments only makes things worse.
Mike
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 21:59:38 -0000
From: Phil Hall
Subject: that mellow saxophone
Does anyone know who played the saxophone solo on "The Trouble With
Boys" by Little Eva? That solo is sooooooooo Brill Building.
Phil H.
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 20:51:31 +0100
From: Austin Powell
Subject: Re: label-go-round
S.J. Dibai wrote:
> It would seem that UK London had a deal to release Jamie/
> Guyden material on the other > side of the pond -- true?
> What was the time span of that arrangement?
S.J:
London certainly released Jamie/Guyden material from 1958 till 1964,
after which a few Jamie masters appeared on the (British) Sue label,
particularly Barbara Lynn songs, though London was still re-issuing
Duane Eddy singles as late as 1968. The British CBS (Sony) label
reissued Ray Sharpe's "Linda Lu" in 1974, and, although I'm not
sure of the date, also issued Cliff Nobles' "The Horse".
London was issuing the Jamie-distributed Phil-L.A. of Soul label's
material in 1969, and I believe the Guyden label stuff only ever came
out in the UK on London, as did most of the other labels that were
distributed by Jamie's parent company, including Philles, Fabor and
Montel-Michel.
In the mid-seventies the Route label issued a Harold Melvin & The
Bluenotes single that was first issued on (Jamie-distributed) Landa
Records in '64, an L.J. Waiters & The Electrifiers single from Phil-L.A.
Of Soul, and Byron McNaughton's "Jaws Interview" which was
released on Jamie.
There's probably more, but my grey cells are hurting now!
Austin
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:39:25 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: Donna Marie - Penthouse
Beautifully sung by Donna with a sympathetic production by Charlie just
a bit too 'grown-up' for my taste. But, in the interest of jogging a couple
of memories, I've played "The Penthouse" by Donna Marie (the real one)
to musica. I can't recall seeing the film but would be interested to know
if Al Kooper is even more 'inspired', after hearing this track co-written by
his school pal Shelley Pinz, to track down a copy of the film.
Donna, how was it working with Charles Calello?
Martin
P.S. Although I prefer the flip, "Pretty Thing" (with a couple of stars rubber
stamped on the label of my copy), it is rather sweet to see "Suggested Side"
printed on the label for "The Penthouse". I wonder if an Englishman was in
charge of the promotion dept. at the time?
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:38:20 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Chicago/Milwaukee DJs
Gary Myers wrote:
> But you must like his first name, Clark. Clark Weber has made a
> very positive impression on me. When I was 15, a friend an I were
> hanging around outside WRIT (Milw) about 2AM and, instead of yelling
> at us, he invited us in and showed us around. A few years later, when
> I heard him on WLS and wrote to him, he answered my letter and even
> mentioned a little story about me on the air one night. Several years
> ago, after getting Stew Salowitz' book about WLS, I tracked Weber down,
> wrote to him, and he responded with a very gracious letter -- a very nice
> man.
Gary,
Yes, I've heard Clark W. is a nice guy. I just joked about it because I was a
Riley fan and there was that great rivalry between Riley and Weber back
then. Plus, Clark hired Riley, so without Clark, I'd never heard old Ringo
Ron. Such a great period, and the rivalry made it more fun listening to 'LS
then. The 1968 Viet Nam LP they sent overseas was cutting edge for the
time, and quite racy for 1968 radio. Doubt they coulda aired it on WLS
in '68.
Take care,
Clark
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:39:45 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: P.S. on Harvey Kubernik
previously:
> In Hardback...Nitzsche on the Bookshelf
> http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/inhardback.htm
> casts its appraising eye over "This Is Rebel Music: The Harvey Kubernik
> Inner Views" and gives the tome a strong 'Thumbs Up'.
In reviewing Harvey's "Rebel Music" I forgot to mention that at least six
S'poppers are name-checked in the acknowledgment pages. Now if everyone
mentioned bought a copy Harvey would have a #1 bestseller on his hands!
Martin
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:57:07 -0000
From: Gary
Subject: Re: Pied Piper
That Alan wrote:
> "Pied Piper" by Crispian St. Peters was written by Artie Kornfeld and
> Steve Duboff.
Were Artie and Steve also The Changin' Times? I have a video of them
doing that song and "How Is The Air Up There?". COOL STUFF!
Gary
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 18:05:30 +0100
From: Richard Havers
Subject: Re: Pied Piper - Crispian St. Peters
That Alan wrote:
> "Pied Piper" by Crispian St. Peters was written by Artie Kornfeld and
> Steve Duboff.
A little something about Crispian:
He was born Robin Peter Smith (5.4.39, Swanley, Kent) and attended
Swanley Secondary School, and first displaying his inherent musical
ability when introduced to the guitar by a local youth club leader. While
still at school he mastered the instrument enough to play lead guitar in
a local skiffle group, The Hard Travelers. After school he tried a number
of jobs, and became a keen amateur boxer, but his heart was set on
a musical career which led to him forming his own rock 'n' roll trio,
Beat Formula Three, to began touring the UK.
Responding to an ad in a music paper for would-be singers, he found
himself in the office of David Nicholson, who subsequently became his
producer and manager. A record contract with Decca followed, and after
two disappointing releases his third single, a cover of We Five's '65 top 3
U.S. hit 'You Were On My Mind', soared up to No. 2 in the summer of '66.
Within a week or two of it charting, egged on by his publicist St Peters
started making some rather outrageous claims. Such comments in the press
as "The Beatles are past it. I've written about 80 songs and they're of a
better class than most Beatle songs", and "I'm better than Elvis Presley.
I'm going to make Presley look like the statue of Liberty" were guaranteed
to offend unless he had the talent with which to back up his claims. He also
confessed, "I am sexier than Dave Berry and more exciting than Tom Jones.
Tom has rubber legs and that's all".
St Peters follow-up was not one of the 80 songs he had written but 'Pied
Piper' which had been a No. 87 hit in the US the previous year for The
Changin' Times. St P's version went to No. 4 in America and No. 5 in Britain.
The success of 'Pied Piper' in the States resulted in the re-release of 'You
Were On My Mind' the following year, which made No.36.
Given his boxing background his publicist dubbed him "the Cassius Clay
of Pop", which was a little unfair as the mild-mannered, unassuming singer
was told to open his mouth and be outrageous and he complied.
Richard
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:28:13 -0700
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Wally Gold & "It's My Party"
Al Kooper wrote:
> Wally Gold was one of my mentors growing up in NYC ... wrote
> "It's Now Or Never" and I'm pretty sure "It's My Party" ...
Yes. One of the other credited co-writers of IMP is Herb Weiner.
Do you recall ever running across him? He had some involvement
with Joe London, an obscure artist who is related to my Wisconsin
research. I've just tried to write Weiner through Warner-Chappell,
but no response so far.
gem
admin note: Mick Patrick and Malcolm Baumgart have already sorted
out the complex early history of "It's My Party" on the Cha Cha
Charming website; find their report at
http://www.chachacharming.com/article.php?id=16
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 02:22:44 -0400
From: Dave Feldman
Subject: Al Gorgoni
I had the opportunity to speak to guitarist-producer Al Gorgoni and he was kind
enough to answer some of the questions posed by Spectropoppers over the past
year or so. Al is frank enough to admit that he doesn't remember many of the dates
he recorded on. For example, although "The Faculty" sounded vaguely familiar to
him, he didn't remember "Elevators, Escalators" at all.
He did remember the "Sunny" session, and Mike Rashkow's recollections were spot
on. Gorgoni also remembered it as the last song of an otherwise unremarkable
session, and that he liked the song and the groove of "Sunny" -- it was a rare time
when he thought he might have worked on a hit. He and Vinny Bell were on guitar.
He was a little less enthusiastic about the Kathy McCord record on his and Chip
Taylor's label. Gorgoni feels that the band "wasn't too together." But after the
success of James Taylor on Apple, he and Chip Taylor thought releasing the record
was worth a shot, if only for archival reasons, but it never worked commercially.
Al was most enthusiastic when discussing the recording of "The Sound of Silence."
He remembers "raving about the song." He went straight from another gig to record
TSOS, but it was NOT from one of the "Bringing It All Back Home" sessions
(although of course he played on those, too). Vinny Bell was the other guitarist on
TSOS. Al wanted to share that it is not true they were playing 12-strings; they were
"just out of tune 6-strings."
As you can tell, Al is easy-going and modest. He's an extraordinary guitarist. I
mentioned the lyrical quality in his playing, and he said that he isn't really a rock and
roller at heart. And yet he played on so many fabulous records that helped define
this era. Even without his accomplishments as a writer, producer, and arranger, he's
an important figure for the breadth and beauty of his playing.
Like Country Paul, I've encouraged him to participate on Spectropop, and hope he
will join us at some point.
Dave Feldman
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 20:22:24 +0100
From: Simon White
Subject: The Metropolitan Soul Show
THE METROPOLITAN SOUL SHOW this SUNDAY 9th may
on
www. soul24-7.com
at 3.pm-5pm GMT
STOP PRESS !!
Extended show until 7pm - two hours of Mecca style '70s & '80s Dancers
This week -
The Utterly Marvellous Simon White
AND now REPEATED on TUESDAYS
at 7.00-9.00 am GMT
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:08:51 +0100
From: Simon White
Subject: You Can't Lose Something You Never Had
A question for Mr Al Kooper of this parish.
A 45 was issued here a few years ago purporting to be by Mr Chubby
Checker-although clearly it isn't - called "You Can't Lose Something You
Never Had" and carrying a writer credit of Kooper/ Levine. No other
information available I'm afraid. The vocalist sounds as though it could be
Jimmy Radcliffe to me.
Al, help. It's driving me nuts. Any memory of the song at all?
Simon White,
Karate Monkey.
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 23:06:06 -0000
From: Billy G. Texas
Subject: Re: Back to Mono
John Sellards:
> I've heard this over and over about the Dunhill mono tapes being
> gone. Surely some of these things were issued somewhere other than
> the USA where the tapes didn't get pitched?
I guess copies of the original Dunhill Mono masters could be hiding
in oversea vaults if anyone's willing to get the legal rights and sort
through them. Didn't RCA distribute Dunhill in the UK?
The sad truth is that there's just no mainstream demand for mono-only
reissues on CD. And it seems when Rhino or Sundazed puts out a mono-
only reissue of a LP that's was available in stereo they get a lot of
heat from die-hard fans for doing so.
I'm just happy the M&P's catalog finally got a good remastering job on
the "All The Leaves Are Brown" reissue on MCA from 2001. They did
include the mono mixes for "I Saw Her Again" "Creeque Alley"
and "Words Of Love".
Billy
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:25:02 EDT
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: Dickie Lee / She's Walking Away
Dickie Lee did go country in I believe the very early 7Ts. His
roots are in rockabilly, so I guess he and Bobby Goldsboro have
that in common, going from country to pop ballad (plus that edge
to the voice) and back again to country. Although I've not heard
any of his stuff, there was also an artist called Dick Lee, who
recorded primarily in the late 5Ts and early 6Ts and is not to be
confused, yet if I'm not mistaken he was from the South too!
Bobster
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:45:44 -0400
From: Doc Rock
Subject: Mono and Stereo at Western
Engineer Bones shed light on the mixing of monon and stereo Jan & Dean
records for my bok, Liberyty Records:
"The mono and stereo versions were mixed completely separately.
First of all, the only thing that anybody cared about at the record
company was the mono release. That was the record. And the stereo was
always whatever you wanted it to be. We recorded on three tracks, not 24
tracks, maybe we had four tracks near the end of that period. By the
time we were finished, all the instruments ended up on one track, the
vocals on another, and the background vocals on the third. And there
were no time codes to allow us to hook up two machines together. So
oftentimes, to finish what Jan wanted, there were additional overdubs
done while we were mixing down. These would not be on the master tapes,
just on the final recording.
"Jan would try any kind of crazy thing he would think of. We'd run
the tape slow and speed it back up to get the voices in tune with the
music; you wouldn't believe the things we tried." And the tracks that
were speeded up? "Jan would listen to a tape over and over again, then
say it wasn't exciting enough and speed the tape up. As an engineer, you
grow up doing these things, then when you become a producer you decide of
you want to do them yourself.
"Another reason stereo and mono would be different -- in order to
open up a track so we could put new things on it, we would combine
tracks. We could copy from one three-track machine to another and
combine two or three tracks into one track. By the time we got finished
putting two layers of lead vocals on, plus two layers of background
vocals, the track would begin to get mushy. Jan would call the entire
rhythm section back in the studio for another session and overdub the
entire rhythm section over the track again. So in some cases, not only
is the vocal double, but the rhythm section is double.
"That sound was so exciting that after that, Jan would use two
drummers, two bass guitars, two everything. Studio 3 at Western was
always full, jammed with people. This was probably after 'Drag City,'
the 'Three Window Coupe' period."
Doc Rock
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen Andrew
Subject: Boyce and Hart / Mamas and the Papas
Ha! One of my editors just said "out and about" to a reporter that's
going out somewhere to a story and that rang a bell. Wasn't one of
Boyce and Hart's hits "Out and About"?
Also, I got out my Mamas and Papas Greatest Hits album and played it.
Did they do all of the instrumentals such as the flute and piano? Or
did they have session musicians helping out? Whatever the answer,
their music was superb!
KA
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 01:32:33 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Schlagers
Frank Jastfelder:
> As far as I remember the WB compilation "Schlagers" included more
> softer, adult orientated artists then the other loss-leaders,
> hence the title.
Charles Ulrich:
> That's correct. Side one featured Petula Clark, Charles Wright,
> Peter Paul & Mary, Ella Fitzgerald, Trini Lopez, Glenn Yarbrough,
> and The Vogues. And so on for the other three sides. No Kinks or
> Mothers Of Invention on this one!
The Glenn Yarbrough track on "Schlagers"-titled "Sunshine Fields of
Love"-is one of my all-time favorite tracks. I love the whistling on
this song, as well as the dreamy feel it has. I think it was written
by Hoyt Axton. The Warner/Reprise sampler LPs from the late 60's-
early 70's are all well worth getting.
And speaking of the subgenre of sampler LPs, does anyone else on
the board have a copy of the 1967 sampler put out by ESP Records?
Art Longmire
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:33:21 EDT
From: Mike McKay
Subject: Re: Back to Mono
> ...what kind of sense does that make when the whole point of The
> Mamas & Papas is those four voices blending together as one with
> thosewonderfully complex John Phillips-devised harmonies?
> OT, but this reminds me of the first time I saw the Four Freshmen.
> It was a small club and they were using one mic -- and playing
> instruments -- and their blend was perfect!
>
My point exactly. And you're not OT at all. This seems almost too
obvious to mention, but if it weren't for the Four Freshmen, none
of us would be going on about Brian Wilson, would we? And that would
take a considerable chunk out of the totality of Spectropop
discussion.
Mike
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:05:27 -0500
From: Nick Archer
Subject: Nashville Combos of the '50s-'70s
There's a great web site that I stumbled upon - Nashville Combos
of the 50s-70s, at http://nashlinks.com/sixties.htm Chip Curley,
a combo member, put up the site. Many pictures, and don't miss the
bands' business cards at the bottom. I especially like "The
Ministers Of Sound- Specialists In The Field Of Music".
Nick Archer
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 03:09:01 -0000
From: John Hamilton
Subject: Re: Donna Marie's Penthouse
"The Penthouse" is really quite spectacular, with a gorgeous
breakdown of strings, piano, sitar, and Donna's urgent teen-soul
cries of "pent! house!" Packs a lot of power in its 2:45.
-John Hamilton
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 17:21:06 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Top 40 Playlists
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Aside from a very infrequent Weird Al song, where have all those
> great novelty records gone? I guess they still appear once in a
> great while in country radio, but I do miss the songs that made me
> laugh. The humor has disappeared completely from teen music. Today
> I run a college radio station that plays modern rock by day and rap
> by night. And you know what--I can't even listen to my own station!
Dan, Even more disappointing is the lack of airplay of novelty songs
on oldies radio where they thrived on Top 40 radio in their heydeys.
My friend, Dick Bartley, has commented that he can only play a
certain two or three at all and only one in a show usually. It is
just too much against the statistics to play any more, I guess. He
has played more on occasion, but I don't think he ever had a "novelty"
show just because it would make people turn the dial too easily. I
guess that is why oldies noon requests hours and such are often
bombarded with novelties. You never get to hear em. Actually, if I
ever listened to a rap record for a minute, it would make me laugh.
......Clark
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 19:06:45 -0000
From: Jim Shannon
Subject: New York Rock Ensemble
Does anyone know if New York Rock Ensemble ever released a single
called "Beside you" . I came across the song on a special CD set
and its georgeous soft ballad with vocals by Mike Kamen. I know
they were originally signed by Columbia in the late sixties. This
song comes off an LP called "Roll Over".
Jim Shannon
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 22:11:29 -0000
From: John Hamilton
Subject: Re: Donna Marie's Penthouse
Thanks so much for putting up "The Penthouse," Martin. I am absolutely
enamoured with it. The combination of sitar, strings, and throbbing
bass, as well as Donna's pleading vocals, puts me in classy pop heaven.
It's missing from the soundtrack, so was this was an exploitation track
that didn't feature in the film? (Hence the "inspired by" tag?)
Pent! House! Stay away, stay away from ...
-- John Hamilton
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