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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. "It's A Gas", etc
From: Pres
2. The Avons on Hit
From: Paul Urbahns
3. Lou Christie: "Original Sinner"
From: Wes Smith
4. Repeated Cat #s ?
From: Chris Rowling
5. Tim Hardin
From: Bill Reed
6. The death of vinyl
From: Joe Nelson
7. Cover records as weapons
From: Artie Wayne
8. Flamma Sherman
From: Ashley Brittin
9. "Wildlife" LP
From: Eddy
10. Gus Backus
From: Country Paul
11. HIT Records
From: Mikey
12. Cheapo labels Yahoogroup
From: Davie Gordon
13. Beach Boys on X and Candix
From: Kingsley Abbott
14. New Mamas and Papas PBS Special
From: Richard
15. Motown re-releases
From: Kingsley Abbott
16. Re: Mark Thatcher's "Do The Blue Beat" at Musica
From: Davie Gordon
17. The Stacy label
From: Max Weiner
18. Vicki Lawrence
From: Bob Celli
19. Re: The Nightriders - It's Only The Dog
From: Phil X Milstein
20. Re: The Beach Boys on X
From: John Berg
21. Re: The Nightriders - It's Only The Dog
From: Barry Margolis
22. Re: Hardin/Nico/Bruce
From: Phil X Milstein
23. Re: covers on "Hit"
From: Bobster
24. Re: Stacy, the label
From: Bobster
25. matters of time
From: Phil X Milstein
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:50:26 -0500
From: Pres
Subject: "It's A Gas", etc
Austin Roberts writes:
> I can't remember if I put this in here earlier, but, I've got a
> friend on the coast (west) who wrote 'Saved By The Bell', some Andy
> Griffiths, Green Acres, Gomer Pyle etc. He also wrote, a long ass
> time ago, 'IT'S A GAS' for Mad Magazine. It was an insrumental that
> would stop occasionally and you'd hear someone let loose with a
> prize winning burp. I remember hearing it as a kid. He also wrote
> Ral Donner's, 'GIRL BEST FRIEND'. Funny guy named Sam Bobrick from
> Chicago.
I have this on "Hey, Look What I Found, Vol.4" and wondered who in
their right mind... When I saw the artist listed as "Alfred E.
Neuman" I assumed there was a MAD tie in somewhere. Pretty cool
record, though.
Also on that cd you could find recent topic, "Noshville Katz" and
"Hey-Da-Da-Dow" as mentioned in the 2 of Clubs article.
pres
p.s. In my recent post on Mr. Davis I mentioned "I Keep Coming Back"
as a great little beach tune when I meant "I'll Be Right Here". It
appears that the typing sober isn't working so I think I'll start
drinking when I read email.
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:52:14 EST
From: Paul Urbahns
Subject: The Avons on Hit
David Bell:
> I recall a conversation I had with Mick a couple of years ago about
> the group and I remember him saying that they recorded under aliases
> for the Hit label. Does anyone have a listing of what they recorded
> and under which names?
There are some black girl group vocal records in the early days that
I cannot place the voices. Ted Jarrett told me he "might" have used
the Avons on some of the Hit Records but said his menory was about as
long as his nose. I don't know if he was avoiding the question or
honestly didn't remember. However the interviews I have had with
others in the music business they selgom know much about what they
did. I only have one song by the Avons on the Chapel Of Love 3 CD set.
If I had better recordings of them I might be able to come up with
something. I know that doesn't answer your question but I would say he
did use them at least as background singers if nothing else.
Paul Urbahns
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:46:40 -0000
From: Wes Smith
Subject: Lou Christie: "Original Sinner"
Although by now probably known by most, in case there may be any
lingering doubts as to who sang backups on the Lou Christie "LIGHTNIN'
STRIKES" sessions, with the release of the Lou Christie
compilation, "ORIGINAL SINNER MAN" (VERY BEST OF THE MGM RECORDINGS),
thanks to Harry Young's meticulous research (with lots of knowedgable
help, as credited in the liner notes), it is quite clear that the
backups were done by Bernadette Carroll (formerly of the Starlets, as
well as being a great solo artist in her own right), Denise Ferri
(formerly of the Delicates), and Peggy Santiglia (also formerly of the
Delicates, as well as the Angels). And of course, each of these three
ladies have worked on TONS of other studio recordings over the years,
both solo, and together. Mr. Young (the compilation producer), and
everyone else who had a contribution to this release are to be
commended for their dedicated work on this excellent package that was
long overdue.
Wes Smith
P.S. ...A great session photo of Lou, Bernadette, Denise, and Peggy
is included in the liner notes....a rarity worth the cost alone, and
THE MUSIC makes this package a "Best Buy" for all Lou Christie fans!
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:31:44 -0000
From: Chris Rowling
Subject: Repeated Cat #s ?
In my 5000-strong collection of sixties 45s there is only one single
on the HIT label and that is Chuck Reed Just Plain Hurt but according
to these listings there were two releases with the catalogue number
#101 the other one being The Belles Boy Next Door.
This has happened only very occasionally where the record company
has made a slip-up, the other one that comes to mind is (in UK)
Pye International 7N 25500. The two were RAY CHARLES SINGERS This Is
My Prayer and THE WINSTONS Love Of The Common People.
When I was a lad I used to go to the record shop to buy records with
the catalogue number in my head it was a big shop in Aberdeen and
stocked every new release by label and number. However these days I
find if I rely on my memory then wires get crossed. It's better to
look these things up in a catalogue.
Does anyone know any other instances of the same catalogue number
being used twice?
By the way if anyone is interested in that Hit 45 it's on ebay uk at
the moment http://www.ebay.co.uk just do a search for Chuck Reed
regards
Chris Rowling
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:29:44 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Tim Hardin
Phil M:
> ... Tim Hardin's "Reason To Believe" ... I've just started reading
> Genya Ravan's memoir, "Lollipop Lounge." So far, so good. I skipped
> ahead a bit, and found a part in which she mentions hanging out with
> Hardin
I knew Tim at the very beginning and then again at the end. His last
years were, to put it mildly, not pretty. I wrote about him in my
memoir "Early Plastic." Here a passage from what happened one night
when he got up on stage with Nico at the Whiskey in L.A. not long
before he died. Probably NOT, by the way, natural causes as reported
by the coroner"
"I was there at Whiskey a Go Go in Hollywood in the summer of 1980
when headliner Nico invited him to join her as a surprise guest. It
was one of the last performances he ever gave. Nico, who also wasn't
long for this world, had the nerve to sing "Deutshland Uber Allas" in
person. She had only droned her way through a couple of bars of the
Nazi national anthem, when she began having to duck beer bottles
being thrown at the stage. Then she introduced Tim, and you could
tell trom the crowd's response, hardly a single person in the packed
house knew who he was. Tim came on stage looking like a Teddy Bear
that had all the stuffing pulled out, water poured all over it and
left out in the sun for a week. But when he opened his mouth to sing
he still sounded like an angel."
Bill Reed
http://cllrdr.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:52:06 -0500
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: The death of vinyl
Clark Besch:
> By the way, I got a message from Tim at Sundazed that despite the
> closing of their vinyl manufacturer, Sundazed will ALWAYS make vinyl
> records! Yippee!
The question is: how?
Joe Nelson
(becoming more convinced with every CD reissue I hear that it was all
in the vinyl to begin with...)
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:39:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: Cover records as weapons
Phil M:
> Great story, Artie -- as always. This is the first I've heard
> that covers could be used as competitive weapons! Was that a
> standard operating procedure within the industry, or did you
> think it up yourself?
At one time, when publishers were more than bankers [early 60's
through the 70's] they could control the release of the first
recording of a song. Many times both Ed Silvers and I [working
together at April-Blackwood/ Scepter records/ Viva music/ and
Warner Bros. music] were burned by producers who promised, but
wound up not recording a particular title.
Sometimes we'd be asked to hold on to a song for months obviously
missing the dates of other artists who could do the song. So early
on we decided to give limeted "holds" to producers we could trust
...and give a "little rope" to those we didn't.
I don't know if we were the first to use cover records as a weapon,
but we had to show a little muscle from time to time, so we
wouldn't get run over.
Regards, Artie Wayne
http://artiewayne.com/
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:00:41 -0000
From: Ashley Brittin
Subject: Flamma Sherman
I think that "No need to explain" is a OK song but I think "Where
is he" is better. I will try and put it on musica but I am not sure
how.
regards, Ashley Brittin
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:47:39 +0100
From: Eddy
Subject: "Wildlife" LP
Clark Besch:
> ... Wildlife Lp ... Has anyone ever run across this Lp?
Yes, I have a copy. It's a UK only release, which explains why you
basically don't come across it elsewhere.
Eddy
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:08:56 -0500
From: Country Paul
Subject: Gus Backus
Back to playing catch-up again.....
Bill Reed re: Del Vikings;
> Though not strictly speaking an original member, Gus Backus
> joined the group early enough to have sung the lead on "Cool
> Shake". I think that more or less qualifies him as a "surviving
> group member". After leaving the Del Vikings, he had a monster
> hit solo in Japan (Short on Love), then went on to carve out a
> very solid solo career in Germany. Here is his web site (all in
> German, alas): http://www.gusbackus.de/
I seem to remember he had a version of "Wooden Heart" on Fonograf.
Used to see it in the list of artists below the song title in
CashBox; never heard it, though.
Credit Where Due: the Sparky's Magic Piano post wasn't mine. (But
thanks for thinking of me....)
Country Paul
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:58:34 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: HIT Records
The HIT version of My Boyfriends Back is credited to "The Dacrons"
as mentioned. However the girl group that did the original was not
The Chiffons, but The Angels. Also, the John Preston who did
"Walking Proud' was NOT the same artist who did "Running Bear".
Mikey
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:55:40 -0000
From: Davie Gordon
Subject: Cheapo labels Yahoogroup
There's a Yahoogroup devoted to labels that specialised in cover
versions at: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/cheapo_labels/
Here's the group's mission statement :
The Cheapo labels mailing list was created to provide a place for
discussion of anything concerning so called budget labels that flooded
the market with cover recordings of hits of the day as soon as the hit
versions climbed up the top lists. A certain focus is meant to be on
country and rock'n'roll covers from the late 1940's to the early 1960's.
Examples of record labels in this category are: 18 Top Hits, 4 Star,
Alcar, Artistic, Bell, Big 4 Hits, Big 6, Blue Ribbon, Broadway, Dixie,
Dollar Record Club, EP 4 Hits, Family Library, Folk Music Center, Folk
Music (Inc.), Gilmar, Grand Award, Hep,Hit, Hit Parader, Irene, Jeb,
Kentucky, Melody, Musiclub, Parade, Park, Popular, Prom, Promenade,
Record Pak, Remington, Rondo, Royale, Top Hit Tunes,Top Ten, Tops,
Value, Variety, Varsity, Waldorf, Western, Western 1, Worthmore.
Label listings and artists' discographies as well as discussions
concerning label history and artist identities are encouraged.
============================
Davie
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:01:53 -0000
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Beach Boys on X and Candix
Steve Propes wrote:
> Based on the number of X versions I've either acquired or >come
> across (probably a dozen), I have problem with that >500 number.
> Any record pressed in that low a quantity, would be a once-in-a-
> lifetime sighting, if that, not a dozen copies+ record. Most
> everyone I know who collects Beach Boy singles has at least one,
> thus there's not a lot of demand among serious collectors of the
> group, so a whole lot survive for that low a pressing run.
As a long standing British BB collector, there would certainly be a
demand over here! Some folk over here have a Candix copy, but very
very few would have an X copy. I certainly don't, nor have I ever
even seen one. I'm very envious of those of you who were able to
buy them originally, and I've enjoyed the discussion. I'm now fixed
with the image of Murry Wilson standing outside early shows selling
copies to the kids...
Kingsley
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:01:37 -0000
From: Richard
Subject: New Mamas and Papas PBS Special
The new PBS Special on The Mamas and The Papas
I am pleased to herald a new television docu-retro-production on the
group. "California Dreamin'- The Songs of The Mamas and The Papas"
will begin showing on Public Television across the USA. Here is the
program description. This is a quality production and DOES have
new, "unseen things." DVD's will be available by pledging to PBS, and
probably otherwise subsequent to its initial foray on PBS. Watch your
local listings. Michelle Phillips will be making a number of live
appearances at various PBS Studios across the country in association
with the broadcast.
"CALIFORNIA DREAMIN' – THE SONGS OF THE MAMAS & THE PAPAS, a one-hour
special celebrating the harmonious poprock group, highlights a wealth
of classic television performances that have not been seen for more
than 35 years. The special blends full-performance clips, rare home
movies, exclusive interviews with members Michelle Phillips, the late
John Phillips and Denny Doherty, and vintage footage of the late Mama
Cass Elliot. The hit songs featured include "Monday, Monday,"
"Dedicated to the One I Love ," "I Call Your Name," "Words of Love,"
"Dancing in the Street," "I Saw Her Again," "Creeque Alley" and
"California Dreamin'." Family, friends and colleagues – including
Michelle and John Phillips' daughter Chynna (of Wilson-Phillips fame),
Mama Cass'daughter Owen, legendary record producer Lou Adler, and
contemporary performing colleagues John Sebastian and Barry McGuire –
offer colorful commentary.
You can read more about it at: http://www.aptonline.org/
Richard
http://www.casselliot.com
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:02:35 -0000
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Motown re-releases
With ref to the discussions about the future possibilities for the
Motown back and unreleased catalogue, I would be interested to hear
anyone's ideas offlist about what they would like to see. I will
shortly be in a good position to pass any ideas on to the source.
Please make contact if you have good and interesting suggestions...
Kingsley Abbott
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:03:36 -0000
From: Davie Gordon
Subject: Re: Mark Thatcher's "Do The Blue Beat" at Musica
Lyn Nuttall wrote:
> Following the good response to my previous posts about the Mark
> Barkan-Ben Raleigh song "Do The Blue Beat (The Jamaican Ska)" I've
> posted Mark Thatcher's 1964 version to musica, having just acquired
> the 45. It was on United Artists, #734, produced by Jack Gold. It's
> possible this is the original version, although Ray Rivera also had
> a single of it on RCA in '64 which could be the original, and for
> all I know there could be other versions.
Hi Lyn,
The Ray Rivera single was reviewed in Billboard for June 13, 1964.
The Mark Thatcher version wasn't reviewed but the next UA release
(# 735) was reviewed in the June 20th issue so it looks as if they
were issued more or less simultaneously. Curious that both singles
couple both the same songs - that must be pretty unusual.
Davie Gordon
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:16:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Max Weiner
Subject: The Stacy label
Hello All;
I just aquired a vintage Al Casey 45 from James Holvay. It was issued
on STACY Records out of Chicago. Would anybody have any input on this
label, and maybe an idea who else recorded on it? Thanks much in
advance, folks (again!).
max
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:48:04 -0000
From: Bob Celli
Subject: Vicki Lawrence
Paul Urbahns wrote:
> Bobby Russell did about 90 percent of the white lead vocals on Hit
> (including all the early Elvis songs) and a few of the black vpcal
> leads. On the black vocal leads I call it Red Headed Soul as Bobby
> Russell was red-headed.
Phil M:
> I believe he was also married to a redhead, Vicki Lawrence, for whom
> he wrote "The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia." Did Russell ever,
> as has been said about Sandy Posey, wind up doing the Hit cover of
> any of his own hits?
I recall talking to Snuff Garrett years ago and him telling me that
he was going to be on the Vicki Lawrence TV show. I watched the show
when it aired and she introduced Snuff and told about how he had
produced her hit, "The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia" and then
mentioned that her son Garrett was named after Snuff. Just a little
bit of useless trivia!
Bob
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:27:36 -0800
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: The Nightriders - It's Only The Dog
Scott Charbonneau wrote:
> This was Jeff Lynne's first vinyl release. Shortly after this The
> Nightriders changed their name to The Idle Race.
The label credits reveal some pretty interesting things going on here.
This "Claire Francis Production" is of a song by "Wayne-McCracken." I
don't know if Carl Wayne was in The Nightriders, but even if so I am
sure the Wayne in this credit was not him but rather our own Artie
Wayne, who a year prior to this 1966 release produced a version of "It's
Only The Dog" on The Kingsmen, for Wand. Thus, The Nightriders' version
includes involvement by two people who I don't believe knew each other
at the time (despite having started their careers in roughly the same
time and place), but who nearly four decades later would meet up here
in cyberSpectroland.
The publishing credit on "It's Only The Dog" reads "Ludix Music," which
I imagine refers to Scepter/Wand A&R chief Luther Dixon. The book I'm
currently reading, Genya Ravan's memoir "Lollipop Lounge," cryptically
refers to Dixon as "aka Barney Williams." Anyone know what that means?
It also refers to him as "Florence Greenberg's boyfriend," which is news
to me. But then "Lollipop Lounge" is stuffed to the brim with great ex
post facto gossip such as that, and Ravan's prose indicates that, as
great a singer (and/or producer) as she may have been, she missed her
calling by not having been doing it all along. (And she seems to have
actually written it by herself.)
As of right now there's 6 hours to go before the auction expires on The
Nightriders' record, and it is already in nosebleed territory, with a
top bid in excess of $150. If whoever wins it happens to be a fellow
Spectroperson I hope he or she will be able to play it to musica for us,
once it arrives and all. Elsewise, the eBay page includes a RealAudio
link to hear an excerpt of the song: http://tinyurl.com/4z3x4
Dog,
--Phil M.
http://www.aspma.com/probe
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:37:42 EST
From: John Berg
Subject: Re: The Beach Boys on X
I bought my copy of "Surfin'" on the X label at my local music store
in La Habra, Calfornia, where I grew up. It stayed virtually unplayed
in the back of my 45s stack for many years until around 10 years ago
I took a box of old records with me on a business trip from Seattle
(where I've lived since 1985) down to San Diego hoping that I could
exchange some stuff for a few psych reissues I "had" to have (at the
time). The store there, Off The Record, gave me maybe $10 in trade
value for Surfin'. Imagine my chagrin more recently to discover that
it now fetches -- well, a LOT more than $10 -- like around $1000. But
that's the way it goes in this nutso world of music collecting.
John Berg
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:10:44 -0600
From: Barry Margolis
Subject: Re: The Nightriders - It's Only The Dog
Scott Charbonneau wrote:
> This was Jeff Lynne's first vinyl release. Shortly after this The
> Nightriders changed their name to The Idle Race.
Here's the information I have on The Nightriders.
personnel:
Jeff Lynne: gtr
Greg Masters: bs, vcls
Dave Pritchard: gtr, vcls
Roger Spencer: drms
45s:
Love Me Right Now / Your Friend (promo only) (Polydor 56066, 1966)
It's Only The Dog / Your Friend (Polydor 56116, 1966)
Formerly Mike Sheridan & The Nightriders, this Birmingham combo
became The Nightriders when Sheridan left. Just one 45 was released
under this moniker, and it's inevitably rare and sought-after. You'll also
find "It's Only The Dog" on Electric Sugar Cube Flashbacks, Vol.'s 1 and
3. Even more expensive and harder to find would be the promo-only
recording of "Love Me Right Now." By May 1966 the trio had teamed
up with Jeff Lynne to form Idle Race.
Barry in Minneapolis
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:31:00 -0800
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: Hardin/Nico/Bruce
Bill Reed wrote:
> "I was there at Whiskey a Go Go in Hollywood in the summer of 1980
> when headliner Nico invited him to join her as a surprise guest. It
> was one of the last performances he ever gave. Nico, who also wasn't
> long for this world, had the nerve to sing "Deutshland Uber Allas" in
> person. She had only droned her way through a couple of bars of the
> Nazi national anthem, when she began having to duck beer bottles
> being thrown at the stage. ..."
Good to hear that not every audience sat still for her audacious turns
at "Das Lied Der Deutschland" (the official title of "Deutschland Über Alles").
Nico recorded a Hardin composition, "Eulogy To Lenny Bruce," on her
first solo album. Is Hardin's version readily available? I have on
cassette A (if not THE) version by him that I dubbed from a friend's
copy of a Lenny Bruce tribute album, which I intend to post to my
"Probe" site soon. Also from that album is a recording of Lenny's
daughter Kitty, then 10 y.o., singing a mesmerizing a capella version of
"Yesterday," which Lenny "engineered" for her in the last week of his
life. The nexus of Hardin/Nico/Bruce is especially fitting, in a tragic
way, in that all three died from the effects of heroin. (Kitty remains
alive and, at last report, well, operating some kind of a shoppe in Pennsylvania.)
Bill, your memoir sounds fascinating -- is it available in any form?
--Phil M.
http://www.aspma.com/probe
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:23:27 EST
From: Bobster
Subject: Re: covers on "Hit"
When I was a kid we had the HIT 45 of "Walk Right In" by The Music City
Singers." My mom had purchased the 45, probably not realizing that she
was getting ripped off and that she did not have The Rooftop Singers on
Vanguard. I didn't realize it either until years later, when I heard, once more,
the original version that I had loved on the radio. I seem to recall the fake
version as being slightly distorted and slightly faster, not to mention sung
decidedly less well.
Bobster
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:18:52 EST
From: Bobster
Subject: Re: Stacy, the label
Max Weiner asked:
> I just aquired a vintage Al Casey 45 from James Holvay. It was
> issued on Stacy Records out of Chicago. Would anybody have
> any input on this label, and maybe an idea who else recorded
> on it?
Stacy existed as a label during the late '50s and early '60s, and primarily had
R&B and blues artists. The offices were probably located on what we used
to call Record Row (the 1100-1600 blocks of S. Michigan and S. Wabash
Avenues), or else further south in the city. Al Casey was, without question,
the most successful artist ever to grace the label.
Also on Stacy was The Torkays' "Karate" / "I Don't Like It," from 1963. A
great song, although it never charted. I know next to nothing about the group.
"Karate" is a good mix of soul and pop, reminiscent -- for me, having grown
up in Chicago – of a very Midwestern sound indeed. The lyrics sound a little
like "16 Tons":
I went to the ball park with my girl last night
I got into a terrible fight
My jaw was swollen nearly all of the way
I met up with that thing they call
Karate
Hope this helps,
Bobster
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:50:27 -0800
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: matters of time
When a 45 I'd ordered showed up in today's mail, I noticed something
on the label that piqued my curiosity. The time on the A-side was listed
straightforwardly, but the B-side listed both the whole time and the
"intro" time. The record was a promo (with a different song on each
side), and I'm aware that intro times were often listed on 45s to enable
DJs to time their talkovers. But I can't fathom why an intro time would
be listed on a B-side at all, let alone on the B but not on the A. (Not
having played the record yet, I suppose it's possible that the A starts
"cold," i.e. with no intro, but that's a longshot.)
Were intro times ever broken out on stock copies of records? Now that I
think of it I'm not sure why record companies would bother listing times
on their stock copies at all! Would a home listener choose a 2:10 record
over a 2:50 one in order to save 40 seconds to make an appointment?
Perhaps it was a holdover from the days before promo copies were
separately designated, and labels would be the same on both promos
and stocks.
Timing out,
--Phil M.
http://www.aspma.com/probe
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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