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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Benny Spellman
From: Dave Monroe
2. Lipstick Traces
From: Norm D. Plume
3. Re: Chris Montez
From: Clark Besch
4. Re: The Young Lions (and other Young Lions)
From: Dave Monroe
5. The Beach Boys' lead singer
From: Brian Chidester
6. Re: A Drop of Golden Sun
From: Clark Besch
7. Re: After The Fox
From: Clark Besch
8. Phil Spector and the Young Lions
From: Mick Patrick
9. Carole King / The Keestone Family Singers
From: Mick Patrick
10. Benny Spellman vs Ernie K-Doe
From: Robert Pingel
11. Re: Carole King & The Keestone Family Singers
From: Tom Taber
12. Re: The Beach Boys' lead singer
From: Jens Koch
13. Re: Phil Spector and the Young Lions
From: Alan Ackerman
14. More Young Lions - "Summertime With You" at musica
From: Country Paul
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Monroe
Subject: Re: Benny Spellman
Country Paul on Benny Spellmanwrote:
> ...who sang the famous phrase "Mother in law" on Ernie K-Doe's
> record of the same name. Uncredited and frustrated, he asked Allen
> Toussaint to write a hit for him; thus, the similarity in the phrase
> "Didn't leave me no more" in "Lipstick Traces."
He also of course first recorded the very wonderful "Fortune Teller,"
as covered by The Rolling Stones, The Who, et al., as the b-side of
"Lipstick Traces (On Your Cigarette)", making the 45 on Minit a
bargain at any reasonable price (there's also a Collectibles reissue).
But this reminds me as well: mother-in-law songs. I can think of
Calvin Arnold's "Mama-in-Law." That, in turn is combined with "Mini
Skirt" (a personal favorite) on the Venture 45, which also reminds me:
mini skirt songs. For better or worse, I don't have Lloyd & Glen's
"Mini Skirts and Go Go Boots" (on Bra [?!]), but there's another
category for you all. And "These Boots Were Made for Waling" we all
know, so ...
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:17:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Norm D. Plume
Subject: Lipstick Traces
Country Paul on Benny Spellmanwrote:
> ...who sang the famous phrase "Mother in law" on Ernie K-Doe's
> record of the same name. Uncredited and frustrated, he asked Allen
> Toussaint to write a hit for him; thus, the similarity in the phrase
> "Didn't leave me no more" in "Lipstick Traces."
...which is also the title of the book by music critic and social
theoretician (I don't know how else to describe him - mybe I should
stick to "writer") Greil Marcus. The book is not what you'd call an
easy read. The Amazon synopsis puts it so:
"This title is about a single, serpentine fact: late in 1976 a record
called "Anarchy in the UK" was issued in London, an event which
launched a transformation of pop music all over the world. The song
distilled, in crudely poetic form, a critique of modern society once
set out by a small group of Paris intellectuals. In Greil Marcus's
classic book on punk, Dadaism, the situationists, medieval heretics
and the Knights of the Round Table (amongst others), the greatest
cultural critic of our times unravels the secret history of the 20th
century."
Sounds promising, but Benny Spellman is a lot more entertaining and
far less complex. "Lipstick Traces", as a book title, should really
only be an old serie noir French detective thriller, in my opinion.
Norm D.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:08:22 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: Chris Montez
Bob Rashkow wrote:
> He changed his style after Herb Alpert signed him. As a kid I was
> unable to distinguish between his and Petula Clark's versions of
> "Call Me", Chicago MOR stations played both. Then, in 1967 or so, I
> heard "Let's Dance" for the first time, thinking it was from that
> same period and not realizing it was from '62. I realized this had
> to be the same guy. It was also the first time I'd actually heard
> his name, so I was able to put the puzzle together to see that the
> later record was him singing in a very high voice. Still, I can
> imagine what a shock it must have been even when his first A&M LP
> came out, with its mixture of sambas and standards! "Oh--Chris is
> a guy, not a woman!!!"
Bobster, I was the same. "Who's this girl?" After I found it was a
guy, I didn't like his stuff much at all. I guess that notion made
it sound less interesting to me. Never liked his music much (other
than "Lat's dance" which I also heard later) and at the time threw it
in with guys like Trini Lopez thinking the sound was just not
something I really liked--the schmoozy vocals and with applause or
chatter making them sound more like stars (I guess). Altho I DO like
johnny Rivers, aside from the great "Seventh Son", his vocals with
the chatter I can live without forever. Did it not seem to you that
Ron Britain and WCFL played Montez' songs a lot? I always thought it
was to add to the bachelor pad feeling Ron gave his shows. Montez's
vocals (like Lopez's to a lesser extent) never seemed to put much
effort into them IMO. It's funny tho, I wish Barney pip had tried
doing a Montez cover, because his voice was such that he could have
done great parodies with those songs.
Clark
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Monroe
Subject: Re: The Young Lions (and other Young Lions)
Country Paul wrote:
> (From empirical experience, googling this group is darn near
> impossible, with thousands of entries on a book, a movie, and a
> Danish rock band all called The Young Lions. One entry is worth
> noting: a New Jersey group of local stars, at least for their 15
> minutes of fame in the 60s, called Richard & The Young Lions. Many
> of them are back together; check them out at:
> http://richardandtheyounglions.com/index.asp.)
If anyone has trouble with the link as posted, simply delete the
final parenthesis and period. Voila:
http://richardandtheyounglions.com/index.asp
Though I suppose that's obvious. I had to reverse engineer that
track back from a cover of it by The Romantics a while back, and am
now curious about the claim that it was "the first recording to use
an African Hair Drum and fuzz bass":
http://richardandtheyounglions.com/ryl-legend-page1.asp
At long last I know what that sound is, at least, and I'm guessing
that it may have been both the first AND the last track to deploy it
with fuzz bass. But, while I don't think it's being claimed that
"OUYD" was the first track to use fuzz bass, that does raise the
question, what was? The Beatles' "Think for Yourself" comes to mind,
but ... well, thanks for any/all help.
Dave M.
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:26:41 -0400
From: Brian Chidester
Subject: The Beach Boys' lead singer
Jens Koch wrote:
> But if you were to count the singer who had the most leads of all
> of the BB hits it would certainly boil down to Mike Love.
Actually, if you talley up the Beach Boys' US Billboard hits from
1961-69, Mike Love sang lead on 13 of their hits, while 21 other hits
from that era did not feature Mike Love as the lead singer. That's
also not including any of the Brian Wilson hits with the Hondells or
Jan & Dean, none of which featured Mike Love as lead singer either.
Brian Chidester
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:22:53 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: A Drop of Golden Sun
Artie, thanks for the "flashback". I agree that today, the only true
music that has good songs generally falls in the country field.
There's still a lot of "crap" in that stuff too, but I've heard many
that are REALLY good even to a 60's maniac like myself. Some of
these stories in song are amazing that anyone can come up with. Some,
you can tell are just "cash in" lyrics using a subject popular to
current culture and just putting some shlock lyrics on a basic track
to get "something" out. I guess that has always happened tho. I
always thought a cover or two of Paul davis' late 70's/early 80's
songs would be a natural for one of these current hitmakers as a
patch between self written songs. At the same time, sometimes it
makes me cringe at what a new artist does to an old song or make me
want more for original versions to have been bigger hits. Such was
the recent "First Cut is the Deepest". I kept thinking Keith
Hampshire's version (altho not original) was so under appreciated
compared to this newer version. I think that Bo Rice guy has
"Vehicle" out as his new single. I guess it is an ok version, but I
still kinda just shrug my shoulders at that stuff.
Clark
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:00:34 -0000
From: Clark Besch
Subject: Re: After The Fox
Hi, there are no other vocals on the soundtrack. This particular
song was always mono (45 version) or rechannelled forever. Now you
can get it in stereo on Cd! Always loved the song, altho I can see
why it was not a hit when UA released it as a 45. Not exactly hit
material when not associated with the movie on radio. Took me years
to get the 45 and more years to get the soundtrackand find the track
not stereo, so it was great to get it on Cd in stereo eventually. I
think the movie is a "period piece". I LOVED the movie when I first
saw it in the 60's. I have it on tape somewhere, but last time I
watched it, it wasn't as exciting as back then. I still think it is
pretty cool, tho.
Clark
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:22:22 +0100
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Phil Spector and the Young Lions
David A. Young wrote:
> All this recent talk about The Teddy Bears' "Oh Why" really got
> me in a Phil Spector 1959 mood, and inspired me to run by our
> panel of experts a musical question that's been haunting me
> since Rob Finnis's book "The Phil Spector Story" came out in
> 1975. While describing Spector's 1959 associations (circa the
> Spectors Three singles on Trey) with Lester Sill and Lee
> Hazlewood (among others, including Russ Teitelman) beginning on
> page 28, Finnis says, "The Teddy Bears had created a precedent
> by becoming LA's first successful vocal group and, naturally
> enough, they served as inspiration for several other amateur
> outfits from the same school. Phil produced a single by one such
> group, the Young Lions led by Steve Gold [no label or details
> for this record have been traced] but nothing came of that
> either." Finnis doesn't give the source of this information,
> which I've never seen repeated elsewhere (including through my
> best Google efforts), but I believe he may be correct. United
> Artists 177 from that year, despite label credit to the contrary,
> seems to fit the bill nicely. Production is attributed on both
> sides to Sill-Hazelwood on "Summertime with You" and "Maybe
> Someday" by The Young Lions, the A-side penned by Pomchur-Colburt
> and the flip by Colburt-Schutzer; both decks published by Debbie-
> Jo Music. So, Rob, where did you turn up this story?
Hi David,
Rob Finnis is not an S'pop member, so I forwarded your post to him.
Find his reply below. Enjoy.
Hey la,
Mick
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's how that story came about: I was sitting in an office talking
to Frank Slay, the former Swan records a&r man and songwriter who
had moved out to California in the mid-sixties. There was another,
much younger, guy there who said he'd been in a doo-wop group though
he didn't specify which. I later learned that his name was Marv
Rosenberg and the group in question were the Safaris who'd hit with
'Image Of A Girl' on the Eldo label in 1960.
When Spector's name came up, the younger guy told me he'd gone to the
same school as Spector, Fairfax High, and that Spector had done some
work with another young group from that school, the Young Lions
featuring one Steve Gold. It didn't seem like the sort of thing
anyone would make up, so I kept it in.
The Young Lions record on United Artists referred to by David Young
could possibly involve Spector. The time frame - July 1959 - is about
right and the Sill-Hazlewood production credit would tie in with
Phil's period of apprenticeship with the two entrepreneurs. It's
unlikely that he would have received an individual credit at this
early stage.
Hope this helps,
Rob Finnis
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:35:54 +0100
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Carole King / The Keestone Family Singers
Does anyone out there know anything about the following record:
The Keestone Family Singers "Cornbread And Chitlins" b/w
"Melodrama", released on Calliope 6505 in 1961.
I heard a rumour that this act comprised Carole King, Glen Campbell
and Phil Everly. While this might seem unlikely, I am aware that
Carole King and Gerry Goffin did write a song entitled "Melodrama".
So who knows? To set my mind at ease, I'd love to hear the record.
Can anyone help please? Thanks in advance.
Hey la,
Mick Patrick
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Pingel
Subject: Benny Spellman vs Ernie K-Doe
Evidently Benny Spellman and Ernie K-Doe had some silly but heated
arguments over who was really responsible for the success of "Mother-
In-Law". Believe K-Doe can also be heard on Spellman's "Lipstick
Traces".
Jeff Hannusch's excellent book, "I Hear You Knockin' : The Sound of
New Orleans Rhythm & Blues" is a treasure trove of such information
for anyone who loves the genre. An absolute must have for anyone
interested in Allen Toussaint.
Rob Pingel
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:09:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Taber
Subject: Re: Carole King & The Keestone Family Singers
Mick Patrick wrote:
> Does anyone out there know anything about the following record:
> The Keestone Family Singers "Cornbread And Chitlins" b/w
> "Melodrama", released on Calliope 6505 in 1961. I heard a rumour
> that this act comprised Carole King, Glen Campbell and Phil Everly.
> While this might seem unlikely, I am aware that Carole King and
> Gerry Goffin did write a song entitled "Melodrama". So who knows?
> To set my mind at ease, I'd love to hear the record. Can anyone
> help please? Thanks in advance.
I believe Don and Phil owned or were just involved with the Calliope
label - one of them put out, if memory serves, "Pomp and
Circumstance" under a made-up group name and had a small hit.
Tom Taber
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:35:53 +0200
From: Jens Koch
Subject: Re: The Beach Boys' lead singer
Brian Chidester:
> Actually, if you talley up the Beach Boys' US Billboard hits from
> 1961-69, Mike Love sang lead on 13 of their hits, while 21 other
> hits from that era did not feature Mike Love as the lead singer.
With those 21 songs shared between Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Al, that
still puts Mike as the 'lead lead' singer. Plus his vocals are
prominent even on songs he did not sing the lead on.
Jens
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:42:51 -0000
From: Alan Ackerman
Subject: Re: Phil Spector and the Young Lions
The first few bars of "Maybe Someday" by the Young Lions are an exact
sound match to the same opening bars of "Be My Boy" by the Paris
Sisters. And the rest of the track sounds very much like Spector in
1959. It's a Spector production as far as I can tell.
Alan Ackerman
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:56:24 -0400
From: Country Paul
Subject: More Young Lions - "Summertime With You" at musica
David A. Young wrote:
> So, Rob, where did you turn up this story? And Spectropop jukebox
> jury, do you agree with me that the record now playing in musica
> could very well prove it to be true? I chose the B-side both
> because I feel that it provides a more compelling case for the
> affirmative argument and because I hate summertime ...
Martin Roberts:
> ...Like David I had pondered [Rob] Finnis' comments about the
> Young Lions. Really cool to hear this track and, with reservations
> about the first chorus, I love it! Is it really Mr. S? Sounds like
> it could be and Phil does bleat about the records he didn't receive
> credit for, but my feeling is that the disc is inspired -- but not
> created -- our favourite sorcerer. Go on David, forget your
> loathing of the summer sun, play the A-side!
Thanks to David, I'm able to play the A-side, "Summertime With You,"
to musica - and to expand the dimensions of the discussion. This song
seems to go in the stylistic direction of the Four Preps, a
connection solidified by the Young Lions' December, 1960 release on
Dot, "It Would Be"/"Little Girl." "It Would Be" pursues the Paris-
Sisters-done-by-guys sound of "Maybe Someday" to an even more
beautiful conclusion, but the giveaway is in the production credits:
Lincoln Mayorga, who produced many Preps sides, and Ed Cobb, a member
of that group! Still, the question remains: did Phil Spector
contribute anything besides inspiration? Ed Cobb, unfortunately, died
in 1999, but there's a Lincoln Mayorga website www.lincolnmayorga.com
indicating he's now a performing classical pianist. Mention is made of
Hollywood movies he has worked on, but none of his Four Preps or
other early pop experiences. So the question remains unanswered for
now....
And by the way, I love summertime!
Country Paul
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