________________________________________________________________________
SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
________________________________________________________________________
There are 18 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Marva Holiday
From: S'pop Projects
2. Re: Michael and the Messengers
From: Gary Myers
3. Re: Happy birthday Nino Tempo
From: Mark Maldwyn
4. Re: Herb Bernstein -- '60s discography
From: Peter Lerner
5. Re: Lou Rawls R I P
From: James Holvay
6. Re: 15 minutes of fame ticking away
From: Phil X Milstein
7. Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
From: Norm D.
8. Re: Lou Rawls R I P
From: Gary Myers
9. Re: Shy Guys
From: Bob Rashkow
10. The Fuzz
From: Joann
11. Marilyn McCoo/Billy Davis Jr. Live
From: David Ponak
12. Re: Dapt label
From: Gary Myers
13. Re: Boyce & Hart and Barry DeVorzon
From: Bob Rashkow
14. Re: Race Records
From: Artie Wayne
15. Re: The Flock
From: Joe Nelson
16. Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
From: Mark Maldwyn
17. Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
From: Frank
18. The Flock at Musica
From: Joe Nelson
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:25:18 -0000
From: S'pop Projects
Subject: Marva Holiday
New at S'pop
My Life As A Treasure
and other tales
by Marva Holiday, as told to Phil Milstein
When "Home Of The Brave" hit the record charts in August
1965, Bonnie & The Treasures became an actual gigging
group. At first, Bonnie (Charlotte O'Hara) took to the
stage with Sherlie Matthews and Clydie King, who had
numbered among her back-up vocalists on the disc. But,
much in demand elsewhere, those two ladies soon handed
over to Marva Holiday and Nancy Padròn. Some forty years
after the event, one of those Treasures relates her
story exclusively for S'pop.
Read it here:
http://www.spectropop.com/HOTB/HOTBpart6.htm
Enjoy,
The S'pop Team
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:36:21 -0800
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Michael and the Messengers
Bill Mulvy:
> Would you happen to know if Michael and the Messengers will
> ever have a CD comp out?
The story surrounding this group is too complicated to cover
here, but:
1. Michael & the Messengers were a different band from the
Messengers.
2. "Midnight Hour" was recorded by the Messengers (from
Milwaukee), and it was first pressed as by the Messengers.
3. It was next pressed (with a different B-side) as by Michael
& the Messengers, a band from Leominster, MS that had been
recruited and re-named to replace the Messengers, who wouldn't
sign with with USA.
4. "Romeo & Juliet" was cut by M & the M, in an attempt to
duplicate the sound of "Midnight Hour".
5. M & the M's subsequent two USA releases were done mostly by
studio musicians, with a singer from M & the M's doing the
lead vocal.
So, there are really only two cuts done by the actual band of
Michael & the Messengers.
> Lifs (Don't Mean Nothin). By the way, was that a misprint on
> the word lifs?
Should be "Lies (Don't Mean Nothin')". Since two guys in the
band wrote it, this is probably the most authentic cut by this
band, as they were trying to sound like the other band on the
A-side.
P.S. If you want the whole story, my book is still available.
:- )
Gary Myers / MusicGem
http://home.earthlink.net/~gem777/
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:58:46 -0000
From: Mark Maldwyn
Subject: Re: Happy birthday Nino Tempo
Bill Reed wrote:
> Today, 1/6, is Nino Tempo's birthday. There's a little tribute
> to him today on my blog:
> http://people-vs-drchilledair.blogspot.com/2006/01/tempo-o-day.html
That's a great version of "I Love how you Love Me" Bill. In the
UK, Paul and Barry Ryan had a version with a brass band I think.
Mark Maldwyn
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:28:58 -0000
From: Peter Lerner
Subject: Re: Herb Bernstein -- '60s discography
I wrote:
> Having just looked at my Sequel Best of The Happenings CD,
> I note that all the 25 tracks on it, except one, are
> credited to Herb Bernstein as arranger. Let me know if you
> would like me to list them out.
Davie replied:
> Thanks for the offer, Peter. I've a track listing for the
> CD so if you could just confirm which one he didn't work on
> that would save you a lot of typing.
And my belated answer is:
Track 10 - "RANDY"!!!! Which was arranged by Jimmy Wisner.
Peter
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:35:05 -0800
From: James Holvay
Subject: Re: Lou Rawls R I P
We, my group The MOB that is, first met Lou in Nick Venet's
office at Capitol, I believe in early '65. By then, we had
memorized his entire rap from his first album "Livin' Double"
and immediately performed it for him. Of course, he fell out
laughin'. He must've thought, "who are these crazee white
boys, doin' my rap?"
(Side note: We were signed to Capitol for a short minute.
Unfortunately, the then president (Salvatore Innucci - a
music visionary), after hearing a few of our demos, said to,
"drop the horns and add more guitars", or we'd be dropped."
We packed up our instruments and drove back to Chicago.)
Anyway, after meeting Lou, we became good friends and our
paths crossed many times, over the next 15 years. He would
always make an effort to come to see us, if we were playing
in the same town as he, as would we. We connected a lot in
Nevada, with us working in the lounge and Lou in the
mainroom. Big Al (our lead singer) and I would hang out with
him every chance we could get (i.e dressing room or hotel
suite) We'd talk about UFO's, religion and other weed-
induced subjects, if ya know what I mean.
Since we were both signed to Associated Booking Corp., we
were packaged together for a college tour. It was a perfect
fit because of our R&B style, horn section, etc. We were to
open the show and than back Lou for his show.
I could go on and on about him. We loved the guy. Last
story ... three years ago, I was calling on accounts in a
building on Sunset Blvd. I took a break in the late afternoon
and went to the coffee shop off of the lobby, to have a Coke.
This fella walks in, with a hat pulled down over his face and
sits in the booth behind me. I caught a glimpse of him, as he
walked passed me but when I hear him place his order with the
waitress, I knew it was Lou. I was so excited to see him but
I didn't want to disturb his lunch. Also, it had been 20+
years since I'd seen him. I waited until he got up to pay his
check and approached him. I said, "Lou. Jimmy Soul from The
MOB. How ya doin'?" You should've seen his face. He grabbed
me and hugged me and said, "Where in the heck have you guys
been?". I gave him the short, capsulated version. We talked
for a few minutes about the "old days" in Vegas. He asked
about all the mobsters and I asked about his son. His last
words to me in that deep, soulful voice were, "You guys had
one hell of a band and tell all the guys I said hi." I was
on cloud 9, driving back to the office that night. Lou Rawls
remembered us. He made my whole week, my whole month, my year.
Lou, God has called you to be with him now. Rest in peace my
friend.
James Holvay
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:02:33 -0500
From: Phil X Milstein
Subject: Re: 15 minutes of fame ticking away
Ronnie Allen wrote:
> I''m Ronnie Allen though many people think my name is
> "RonnieOldiesGuy," which is my AOL screen name!
Terrific stories, Ronnie, and thanks for spillin' 'em to us!
Who knows how many other "original artists" might be lurking
within our Spectropopulation?
> Back in 1961, while living in Teaneck, NJ, I released my
> only single, billed as Ronnie Allen. It was on the Dapt
> label (Dapt 205) and was called "Flip Over You." The B side
> was '"Ronnie's Swanee."
As a Bergen County native myself, your tales prompt me to
wonder if there was more of a rockabilly scene there than
just yourself. The area's not exactly known as a hotbed of
any sort of pop music, but, given its proximity to Manhattan
the fact is that northeastern New Jersey appears to have been
home to a great many more contributors, both minor and major,
to the overall recording scene than anyone realizes. For
instance, although they hailed originally from Cincinatti, it
was no coincidence that when they started their own imprint,
the Isley Brothers named their label T-Neck.
Your stories also lead me to ask about the Dapt label. Can you
tell us a bit more about it? I can't quite read the fine print
on the label scan of the eBay link you provided, but it does
appear to include a line, under the label logo, indicating it
was a subsidiary of another, three-letter-named company -- Apt,
perhaps? Some online finagling turns up the following Dapt
discog:
1961:
201: Dean Evans: Lottin' Dottin' / Why Don't They Understand
203: Jordan & The Fascinations: I'll Be Forever Loving You / My
Imagination (Jordan = Jordan Christopher, perhaps?)
205: Ronnie Allen: Flip Over You / Ronnie's Swanee
207: Jordan & The Fascinations: Love Will Make Your Mind Go
Wild / My Baby Doesn't Smile Anymore (A-side = Penguins cover,
no doubt)
1962:
208: The Canjoes: Speaking Of Love / Dance The Boomerang
> They misprinted the title of the A side as "FLIP YOU OVER"!
A title that might've made some sense had it been the B-side!
Of course, I would be remiss if I did not request that if able,
you musica-ize BOTH these sides for us all to hear.
Finally, your experience with being unable to copyright your
arrangement of "Swanee River" is kind of disturbing, as it is
my understanding that original arrangements to public domain
titles are subject to the same copyright laws as an original
composition, and it raises all sorts of warning flags if those
charged with granting those rights can't comprehend that. I
realize that was a long time ago, however, and hope they've
got their copyright act more together these days.
Dig,
--Phil M.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:35:12 -0000
From: Norm D.
Subject: Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
I'm just following on the correspondence re. French (and
non-English) versions of L&S songs. Perhaps someone knows
the history of this better than I do, but weren't there
French versions produced of virtually every English pop
hit? Obviously, there would have been French covers, in
the same way there were UK covers (often, in my opinion,
inferior too), but weren't there guidelines that required
that most of the music aired on radio there had to be in
the French language, which meant that the originals didn't
get much of a look in? As most (or all, as in the UK)
radio was state-operated, these guidelines would have been
formal, legal requirements.
I may have mentioned here before that a lot of my earlier
years listening from the UK, in the 1960's, was to
scratchy French radio stations, teen programmes like
"Salut Les Copains!" (or, "Hi, Buddies!" - you see, it did
help me in my studies). Most of the songs played were
versions of trans-Atlantics hits and were, to put it
mildly, dire. Some were fantastic, such as Richard
Anthony's version of "Too Late To Worry" ("Donne-moi ma
chance, donne-moi ma chance encore...."), but they were
pretty much the exception. I never realised then that many
of these would have been recorded by well-known French
artists such as Piaf or Salvador.
So now, forty + years down the line, I'm thinking: maybe
they weren't so bad after all, or not as bad as all that.
The line between hindsight and sentimental nostalgia is a
pretty thin one.....
Does anyone know of a resource that lists French cover
versions?
À bientôt, mes amis.
Norm D.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 13:04:39 -0800
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Lou Rawls R I P
Artie Wayne:
> Lou Rawls, obviously wanted to express himself too, but was
> restrained by his label, Capitol records, who still refered
> to their R and B recordings as "race records".
That's certainly a surprise. I don't remember even hearing
that term until I began learning more about the record
business of the 40's & 50's. Hard to imagine that anyone was
using it in 1966.
> It was when he signed with Philadelphia International, that
> he actually sold the most albums, I believe.
This aroused my curiosity, and here is what I found re: Rawls
LP's on the 2 labels:
Capitol: 13, 4 in top 20, 2 on charts for over 6 mo.
Phil-Int: 7, 1 in top 20, 3 on charts for over 6 mo.
His biggest one remains his 2nd one, the Live LP just before
the one with Love Is A Hurtin Thing - 74 wks on chart, peaking
at #4. (It was around that time that I saw him in Hollywood at
the club that had previously been Ciro's - I don't remember
the name at that time).
It appears that Capitol believed strongly in Rawls, as he had
quite a few releases before he charted.
gem
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:36:36 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: Shy Guys
Julio Niño:
> ... I´ve been trying to collect songs about girls
> complaining about their too shy and not enough affective
> beloved ones.
Margaret Still:
> .... Shelley Fabares "Johnny Angel".
Maybe Margaret Still was mixing up "Johnny Angel" by Shelley
Fabares with "Johnny Get Angry" (Joanie Sommers, a "minor" hit
from the same year in comparison). In the former Shelley sings
of her love for one guy but doesn't really speculate (nor
complain) that he isn't tough enough; he is merely "an angel"
to her and she's just sitting and waiting for him to "call her
up for a date." Meanwhile Joanie's positively frustrated 'cause
HER Johnny lets other guys cut in on them all the time, etc.
She wants "a brave man, a cave man......"
Bobster
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:46:20 -0000
From: Joann
Subject: The Fuzz
I have a boxed CD set that I purchased which contains the song
"I Love You For All Seasons", by the group The Fuzz. I used to
have the 45rpm record of this, and the flip side was the same
song only it was the instrumental version. Does anyone know if
the instrumental version is available at all? Also, if anyone
has information about "The Fuzz", that is also appreciated.
Thanks for your help,
Joann
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:20:13 -0500
From: David Ponak
Subject: Marilyn McCoo/Billy Davis Jr. Live
Being a huge 5th Dimension Fan, I'm giving consideration to
seeing Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis Jr. live in Cerritos, CA
at the end of this month. I'm concerned about the possibility
of all the 5th Dimension classics being dashed off in a medley,
leaving the rest of the show full of schlock and christian music.
As anybody seen Billy & Marilyn recently? If so, please let me
know if you think this show might be worth the time and money.
David Ponak
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:16:59 -0800
From: Gary Myers
Subject: Re: Dapt label
Phil Milstein:
> Some online finagling turns up the following Dapt discog:
> 1961:
> 201: Dean Evans: Lottin' Dottin' / Why Don't They Understand
> 203: Jordan & The Fascinations: I'll Be Forever Loving You /
> My Imagination (Jordan = Jordan Christopher, perhaps?)
> 205: Ronnie Allen: Flip Over You / Ronnie's Swanee
> 207: Jordan & The Fascinations: Love Will Make Your Mind Go
> Wild / My Baby Doesn't Smile Anymore (A-side = Penguins cover,
> no doubt)
> 1962:
> 208: The Canjoes: Speaking Of Love / Dance The Boomerang
Ken Clee's Stak-O-Wax lists only 2 additional items:
204 by Sandra Thompson and 210 by Jordan & the Fasc.;
202, 206 & 209 are blank.
gem
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:43:03 EST
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Re: Boyce & Hart and Barry DeVorzon
Damian:
> I just heard Boyce & Hart's "I Wonder What She's Doing Tonight",
> and it reminded me that Barry & The Tamerlanes had a song with
> an identical title about five years earlier. Both songs are
> upbeat "pop"
Damian, which version do you prefer? A few years ago
as I had mentioned then on the group I "re-discovered"
Barry DeVorzon's 1963 record and decided that although
both songs are great, Barry and the Tamerlanes' is the
more interesting. (Apparently the titles are a coincidence;
also a coincidence is that both sets of penners were
published at one time or another by Screen Gems-Columbia
Music!) At that time, maybe 2 years ago or so, the consensus
of S'poppers seemed to agree. I "wonder" if that's changed
since.
Bobster
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:56:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: Re: Race Records
Gary:
> That's certainly a surprise. I don't remember even
> hearing that term until I began learning more about
> the record business of the 40's & 50's. Hard to
> imagine that anyone was using it in 1966.
Gary...it was hard to believe when I heard A&R men at
Capitol talking about "race records", but it did happen!
Thinking back, it was a time during my life, when I looked
"white". I'm bi-racial, was light-skinned, straightened my
hair, talked "white", and was more into pop music than R'n'B.
Perhaps I was "mistakenly" taken into somebody's confidence
...I really don't know.
Would you believe that racism was alive and well in 1968?
HELL YES!! Morris Levy's record company that released my
"Shadow Mann" album, wouldn't put a recognizable picture of
me on the cover...and used a picture on the back where I
looked more like John Travolta than Marvin Gaye, to promote
me to the same audience they were promoting Tommy James to.
It's funny that in this case, a friend of yours, Sunny
Monday who was being produced for Decca by Ron Haffkine
[my producer also] came over to my house the day I got
tired of all the bullshit and cut the straightening out
of my hair, and went natural.
Her mouth dropped open, with an astonished look on her
face and said,"YOU'RE BLACK!", I smiled, raised my arm
in a black power salute and said, "RIGHT ON!". We laughed,
'cause we'd known each other for almost a year, and the
subject never came up.
A few minutes later, we went in to work on some new material
with Haffkine, who always believed that my becoming black at
that moment in time was more of a good career move than
anything else. I can assure you that the reason I did it
went a lot deeper than than that!
Regards,
Artie Wayne
http://artiewayne.com
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:29:19 -0000
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: Re: The Flock
Max Weiner:
> ........Can anyone tell me anything about a mid-sixties
> Chigao garage band known as the FLOCK? The lead guitarist
> was a guy by the name of Rick Kanoff, they were from West
> Rogers Park....
Are you saying this was a different group from the one that
signed with Chicago's Destination label as a pop group,
gradually turned progressive by the time Destination became
USA Records, and went on to record several prog albums for
Columbia and Mercury? I had enough of a time trying to verify
the Destination and CBS acts were the same group.
Joe Nelson
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:38:01 -0000
From: Mark Maldwyn
Subject: Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
Norm D. wrote:
> Perhaps someone knows the history of this better than
> I do, but weren't there French versions produced of
> virtually every English pop hit?
Yes there are many fine French covers which equal, or surpass,
the original USA or UK versions. Some were not so good but
interesting nonetheless: Dalida the Great; Hedika the Dodgy
and "River Deep Mountain High"/"Comme le Fleuve Aime la Mer"
par Tina.
Mark Mal
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:45:17 +0100
From: Frank
Subject: Re: Edith Piaf sings Leiber & Stoller
Norm D. a écrit:
> .....weren't there French versions produced of virtually
> every English pop hit? Obviously, there would have been
> French covers, in the same way there were UK covers (often,
> in my opinion, inferior too), but weren't there guidelines
> that required that most of the music aired on radio there
> had to be in the French language, which meant that the
> originals didn't get much of a look in?
Absolutely right, Norm. Most, if not all, the US and British
hits from the 60s and early 70s were covered in French by
French artists. However this did not happen because of some
State enforced guide lines. In those days you could play whatever
you wanted on French radios. It mainly happened because suddenly
a new generation of artists was happening and they had to find
new songs for them. Also, "Salut Les Copains", which more or less
defined the new taste of French teenagers, had access to all the
foreign hits and played them shortly on its program making them
available to any new and not so new artists interested in covering
them.
I also agree that practically all these covers were awful. Claude
François, who became a huge star in France became a kind of
specialist of these. A few exceptions, Richard Anthony, as you
mentioned, who was way above the rest of the pack.
I don't think there is a list of all these covers though I made up
one for myself when I had my radio program and spent some air time
trying to explain to my French listeners why the originals were so
much better; Yet now, after all these years passed away, I can listen
to some of these awful covers with some kind of nostalgia.
Frank
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:05:10 -0000
From: Joe Nelson
Subject: The Flock at Musica
In response to Max Weiner's question on the Flock, I've posted
their first single to Musica. Like many other Chicago groups,
they got their start at Destination Records (the Cryan Shames'
starting point). "Can't You See (That I Really Love Her)" is a
fine slice of pop-rock and offers little if any hint of the
direction the group would take by the time they followed the
direction of several labelmates and moved to Columbia Records
(by which time their music could most charitably be described as
an acquired taste). Flip the record over, and "Hold On To My Mind"
reveals the group in a more adventurous mode, playing odd rhythm
games and experimenting with some peculiar harmonies.
The follow-up, "I Like You" b/w "Are You The Kind" continues in a
pop vein, while a third single, "Take Me Back" b/w "Each Day Is A
Lonely Night" finds the band stretching out. Still, it isn't until
the group switches to the sister label USA for a final pre-CBS
single that they add violinist Jerry Goodman and find their
niche. "Magical Wings" brings the group fully into the trippy lyrics
of the day with its backwards tapes and simultaneous guitar solos,
while "What Would You Do If The Sun Died" goes a step further, ading
a vocal double-reverse of the title at one point. (For a better
explaination of the double-reverse technique check out the Nora
Guthrie article at http://www.spectropop.com/NoraGuthrie
In time, Columbia would release a "best of" called Flock Rock, but
it left the group's pop era unacknowleged - probably because side-
by-side the likes of "Can't You See" and "I Like You" didn't sound
like the same group. Clark Besch told me a while back that the
whereabouts of the Destination/USA masters are unknown. At the very
least, a stereo remix of "What Would You Do If The Sun Died" appears
on Flock Rock.
The group's albums for Columbia (and later Mercury) Records turn up
reqularly on Ebay. The Destination/USA singles are harder to find:
I have them all, and will be happy to transfer them (offlist please)
if anyone wants to check this out further.
Joe Nelson
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
SPECTROPOP features: http://www.spectropop.com
End
