________________________________________________________________________
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______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________
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Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Take Me For A Little While
From: bryan
2. Re: The Reflections
From: Mikey
3. Re: The Reflections
From: Doc Rock
4. Reflections singles on Golden World
From: Kingsley Abbott
5. Re:Take Me For A Little While
From: Pat Johnson
6. Reflections again
From: Stefan Wriedt
7. Sound Waves & Traction
From: Kingsley Abbott
8. Beverly Ross
From: David Bell
9. Re: Betty Betty
From: Dan Hughes
10. Fanfare Publications equivalent?
From: Freeman Carmack
11. Reflecting on The Reflections
From: Martin Roberts
12. Re: Reflections again
From: Eddy Smit
13. Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
From: Richard Williams
14. Re: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
From: Mikey
15. Re: Take Me For A Little While
From: Michael Coxe
16. Great Britons
From: Richard Tearle
17. The Reflections on "Casino Classics Vol 2"
From: Mike Edwards
18. Bob Lind
From: Leonardo Flores
19. Reflections UK
From: Phil Chapman
20. Online vinyl price guides?
From: zombie7123
21. Re: EVIE SANDS
From: Mick Patrick
22. Thanx
From: Bob Rashkow
23. Re: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
From: Phil Chapman
24. Re: "Girl Groups" Is Not "War and Peace"
From: John Clemente
25. Re: Online vinyl price guides?
From: Eddy Smit
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:55:41 -0700
From: bryan
Subject: Re: Take Me For A Little While
> I heard (the track featured on The Sopranos) too, and my immediate thought
> was Dave Edmunds.
Yes, it was Dave Edmunds doing "Take Me For A Little While". The song appeared
on his 1979 album 'Repeat When Necessary'.
Bryan
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:38:33 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: The Reflections
From Billy G. Spradlin:
> "Just Like Romeo & Juliet" appeared in stereo for the first time on Varese
> Sarabande's great "On The Radio - Volume 2" it did prove that stereo tapes
> do exist. Golden World was bought out by Motown in the 60s so they could use
> their studios - Universal music owns their master tapes.
>>>More than stereo tapes exist. That version on the Varese Cd was mixed from
the original 4 track multis. I actually thought that mix was pretty great. To
hear that song in true stereo for the first time was a real joy.
And yes, Universal Music does own the Reflections Masters.
I am friendly with some small label owners. I'll email them and suggest a
Reflections Comp.
Mikey
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:40:37 -0400
From: Doc Rock
Subject: Re: The Reflections
I organized and MC'd a show in the '90s with Bobby Vee, Martha and the
Vandellas, The Pixies Three, and the Laredoes. The Laredoes is the name
the Reflections have to use, unless they want to split the fee with the
people who own the trademark!
Doc
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:11:33 +0100
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Reflections singles on Golden World
I have notes of 9 Reflections singles on Golden World:
In release order (between 3/64 and 9/65):
8/9 - (Just Like) Romeo & Juliet/
Can't You Tell By The Look In My Eyes
12 - Like Columbus Did/Lonely Girl
15 - Talkin' About My Girl/Oowe Now Now
16 - (I'm Just) A Henpecked Guy/Don't Do That To Me
19 - Shabby Little Hut/
You're My Baby (And Don't You Forget It)
20 - Poor Man's Son/Comin' At You
22 - Wheelin' And Dealin'/Deborah Ann
24 - Out Of The Picture/June Bride
29 - Girl In The Candy Store/Your Kind Of Love
In 1966 on ABC there was also:
10794 - (Just Like) Adam & Eve/Vito's House
10822 - You're Gonna Find Out (You Love Me)/Long Cigarette
They actually had an EP released in England, now pretty rare,
which is where I picked up on the excellent "Comin' At You"
which has the same handclappy vibe of "Romeo & Juliet".
Can anyone add to this list? They had strong B sides, so
even the above would make a mighty fine CD! Let's hope that
between us we can get it together. Joe F and I met on Monday
and talked about it - so Joe, we now know it is Universal.....
Kingsley
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:16:53 -0700
From: Pat Johnson
Subject: Re:Take Me For A Little While
Dave Edmunds did a killer (very Spectoresque) version
[of "Take Me For A Little While"] on his 'Repeat When
Necessary' LP... comparable to the stellar Dusty Springfield
version.
Is the Evie Sands version the original? I've been curious
about this song forever.
Pat
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:33:40 +0200
From: Stefan Wriedt
Subject: Reflections again
Here is their website:
http://www.reflections-music.com
Apart from their nine Golden World releases,
their first was on Kay Ko 1003 (1963),
later followed by two on ABC (10794 + 10822, both 1966).
I have one listed on Flax 1001 (Unborn Man + She's Running Away),
no date. Anybody out there who has it?
BTW, does anybody have the Larados double CD mentioned on the
website as out-of-print?
Stefan
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:25:22 +0100
From: Kingsley Abbott
Subject: Sound Waves & Traction
Igor winged at the weight of the parcel that contained the
two volumes of Stephen McParland's newest tome, "Sound Waves
& Traction" - the stories of all the surf/drag/bike studio
groups inc Anders/Poncia, Carol Conners, Bruce & Terry, Ronny
Wilkin, Hondells et al - everyone 'cept Usher of course who
has five other McParland volumes of his own. These are
amazingly researched books, with discogs, some label shots
and photos. Great shot of Carol C singing "Book Of Love" on a
beach from 'Catalina Caper' in Vol 1, and Bobby 'Boris' Pickett
being backed-up live by the Beach Boys in Vol 2 - now that's one
I had never seen! These are packed with info, and will have you
rushing to renew your wants lists!!
Well done Stephen mate! But I lost a good hour and a half of
good work time when they arrived.....
Kingsley
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:46:11 -0000
From: David Bell
Subject: Beverly Ross
I've just been given a copy of The Magazine Of Song Hits,
which contains the words of a really campy song written by
Beverly Ross and Jeff Barry.
It's called "Betty, Betty (Go Steady With Me) and it has
in it the lines:
Betty is an angel, I love her so,
She wears her hair like Bridgette Bardot,
She is so pretty, she is so fine,
My dreams would all come true if she were mine.
I guess that someone recorded it and so I'm hoping that one
of the group's members will come up with the artist's name,
record label etc.
Many thanks,
David.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:28:59 -0500
From: Dan Hughes
Subject: Re: Betty Betty
David asks about the song Betty Betty Go Steady With Me.
It was recorded by the Archies. ref.
http://community-2.webtv.net/pLuMcRaZy4rOn/archiesongs/page3.html
....Two other songs recorded in the winter of 1969 during
the "Feelin' So Good" recording session didn't make it to
the show or record either. They were: "Betty Betty Go Steady
With Me", and "Are You Ever Coming Home".....
Also recorded in England at least twice, by Dickey Pride,
and by Stanley + Jeffrey Bird.
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:50:12 -0000
From: Freeman Carmack
Subject: Fanfare Publications equivalent?
My Father-in-Law owns a small, Swiss, vanity classical
label, primarily for reissuing historic performances.
Until recently, he has relied on ads in FANFARE and a
small distribution arrangement with Albany Records.
I have been asked to help find other, FANFARE-like
publications to advertise in. He is insistent about
not doing it over the Internet.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most grateful.
(Reply off-list)
Sincerely,
Freeman Carmack
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:56:38 +0100
From: Martin Roberts
Subject: Reflecting on The Reflections
I've been enjoying the chat about The Reflections, I concur
with the general consensus, a fabby group. In the mid seventies
(one of the advantages of being old!) I actively sorted out
all the 45s bearing this name I could find. I was lucky enough
to get the album; great selection of tracks, of the twelve
tracks only three weren't released on 45s "Couldn't Make It
Like That" (which I've played to musica), "Gonna Turn The
Place Out" (sounds like this could have come from the film)
and "On Broadway". I'm missing their last Golden World 45 and
the Kay Ko release.
I'd guessed they later moved to ABC, these were a bit late
for my then collecting tastes but I do have "The Reflections"
on a variety of other labels:
Tigre Records "In The Still Of The Night" - super white stompy
doo wop (I've played this to musica also), two other up-tempo
white vocal 45s on "Crossroads" and one (black sounding) souly
doo wop on "Went". Are they the same group? Well, the "Went"
Reflections aren't but the "Crossroads" group could be, and
the Tigre release is just so great!
Martin
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:55:36 +0200
From: Eddy Smit
Subject: Re: Reflections again
I also have a listing for two 45s on Crossroads :
Crossroads 401 : Maybe tomorrow/I really must know - 1961
Crossroads 402 : Because of you/Rocket to the moon - 1962
I also have a 45 : Tic toc c/w In the still of the night
on Tigre 602, but this is probably a different "Reflections".
See y'all,
Eddy
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:00:55 +0100
From: Richard Williams
Subject: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
I just saw a tape of Standing In The Shadows Of Motown,
to be screened in the London Film Festival on November 15
and 16. My advice: don't miss it.
Wonderful interviews with Joe Hunter, Johnny Griffith,
Eddie Willis, Joe Messina, Uriel Jones, the since-departed
Pistol Allen, and others. Praiseworthy absence of smarmy
superstars. This is the musicians' story. Martha Reeves
speaks beautifully, and qualifies for inclusion by virtue
of lifelong identification with Motown's production-line
workers: the guys in the Snake Pit.
Many, many highlights, including a terrific reconstruction
of "the sound", in the style of King Curtis's "Memphis Soul
Stew". Even the brief passages of dramatic reconstruction
don't jar.
Film is interspersed with extracts from a live concert
featuring the rhythm section with guest singers. Also
better than anticipated, notably Joan Osborne singing
"Heatwave": the original has aspecial place in this heart,
so that's praise.
I found the whole thing really moving, and felt that, even
after 40 years of paying attention, I learnt a whole lot
more that I knew before. The key to the legendary backbeat--
and how obvious it now seems -- was to have one rhythm
guitarist playing chords along with the snare drum and
(sometimes) the tambourine, adding pitch, tone and resonance,
thickening it out. Plus hardly any vintage Motown hits (i.e.
1962-67) used a conventional ride-cymbal or hi-hat pattern.
The rhythmic flow was carried by the bass, sometimes (eg
Barrett Strong's "Money") augmented by an eight-to-the-bar
on a floor tom-tom. The lack of a cymbal "top" is what made
the beat sound so funky, even when the song and the singer
(e.g. most Supremes hits) were pop-slanted.
And so the store of knowledge grows...
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:33 -0400
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
Richard Williams:
> hardly any vintage Motown hits (i.e.
> 1962-67) used a conventional ride-cymbal or hi-hat pattern.
> The rhythmic flow was carried by the bass, sometimes (eg
> Barrett Strong's "Money") augmented by an eight-to-the-bar
> on a floor tom-tom.
sorry, this just isnt true. Money was the exception. MOST Motown
classic, DEFINITELY have a 4/4 high hat pattern, no matter what
anyone says,listen to the RECORDS, boost the high end, it's there.
In those days, they didnt mic the high hat, they were lucky if
they even mic'd the snare drum separately, but in Motown's case,
they did mic the snare.
All you have to do is spin "Please Mr Postman" "Baby Love"
"Heat Wave" ect to hear the same High Hat patterns.
It's all over the Motown records, and I'm surprised anyone
would say the contrary.
I'm a drummer, and Ive studied those records for years.
PS....a lot of the PHIL SPECTOR hits has Hal Blaine playing
the snare and floor tom in unison for the 2 and 4 beats.
Perhaps that's what the person meant.
Your Friend,
Mikey
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:13:19 -0700
From: Michael Coxe
Subject: Re: Take Me For A Little While
>Marci:
>> Did anyone see/hear the version of "Take Me For A Little While"
>> last night over the end credits of The Sopranos? It sounded
>> like a Spector production but I'm trying to figure out who
>> was singing.
> Is it possible what you heard was the Evie Sands version of
> this song? Nicely done and very Spector-ish.
No, it was by Spectorphile Dave Edmunds, from his 1979 album
"Repeat When Necessary".
- michael
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:29:54 -0000
From: Richard Tearle
Subject: Great Britons
Non UK members won't know, but the BBC instigated a
nationwide poll to find the 100 greatest Britons of
all time, voted by the great British Public (!).
'Pop' stars figuring in the voting were the obvious
3 Beatles (sorry, no Ringo), David Bowie, Sir Cliff
Richard, Robbie Williams, Johnny Rotten and, I'm not
joking, Boy George! Not to mention veteran DJ John Peel.
Bearing in mind the amount of scientists, inventors,
explorers, discoverers, Kings and Queens in the list,
do Spectropop members think that pop music was best
represented?
Cheers
Richard
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:34:58 -0000
From: Mike Edwards
Subject: The Reflections on "Casino Classics Vol 2"
Billy Spradlin mentioned that "Just Like Romeo And Juliet"
is on a Varese Sarabande CD. The Relections' ABC cut, "Like
Adam And Eve" is also out on a CD: Casino Classics Volume 2
– available form Goldmine Soul Supply. Their UK based website
is at:
http://www.goldsoul.co.uk/page.htm
This CD is more pop influenced than most northern soul
compilations. It contains Jay Traynor's "Up And Over" – a
forgotten Bob Crewe effort from around 1966. Jay was the
original Jay of Jay & The Americans and sang lead on
"She Cried".
Casino Classics Volume 2 also contains the following girl
group essentials:
Honey Bees – She Don't Deserve You (Fontana, 1964)
Gerri Thomas – Look What I've Got (World Artists, 1965)
Barbara English – You Got Me (Sittin' In A Corner) (Aurora, 1966)
Mamie Lee – (I Can Feel Him) Slippin' Away (MGM, 1967)
Spectropop members will find much to enjoy on this CD.
Mike Edwards
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:27:11 -0000
From: Leonardo Flores
Subject: Bob Lind
Hello,
I was very interesting that the Liner Notes of the CD Two-Fer
reissue of his two LP's doesn't mention that he was in another
group before he went solo. Although the name of the group slips
me at the moment (the Castaways?) , does anybody know of a comp
that might have these early Bob Lind Recordings from that group.
Also does anybody know if his LPs on Capital and Verve have ever
been released on CD?
Can't get enough of Bob Lind,
Cheers
Uplandmod
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:10:58 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Reflections UK
Although they never charted, there were UK covers of
"Just Like Romeo & Juliet" which found their way onto
later comps. But there was also a cover of the Van McCoy
hit for the Reflections "In A Shabby Little Hut" - by
Ron & Mel, produced by Mickie Most, and played to death on
pirate radio. It was a lot later I learned about the original
version, meanwhile I'd got hooked on this one. I think it saw
a US release on Epic.
Does anybody know who were Ron & Mel? A web search reveals they
supported the Stones on their October 1964 Paris appearance. The
flipside, written by Mel Williams, might be a clue?
I've played their recording to musica for interest.
From the messages I can't make out if anyone actually has the
Reflections' Kay Co 45 (also released on Adam & Eve 1). If so,
is "You Said Goodbye" the same song as the Teddy Bears recording?
Phil
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:32:25 -0000
From: zombie7123
Subject: Online vinyl price guides?
Are there any online price guides for '50s-'60s-'70s vinyl
singles and LPs? There are plenty of other kinds of music
reference guides online, but none that I can find for
valuing old vinyl. All the collector's guides seem to be
physical books only. Are there some good sites that I'm
unaware of?
Thanks.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:30:59 +0100
From: Mick Patrick
Subject: Re: EVIE SANDS
Original Message From Pat Johnson:
> Is the Evie Sands version the original? I've been curious
> about this song forever.
Indeed, Evie Sands' fabulous rendition of "Take Me For A Little
While" (Blue Cat 118) is the original. It "bubbled under" the
Billboard Hot 100 in August 1965. Along with her three other
recordings for the label, the track is available on the CD
"The Red Bird Sound, Volume 2: Blue Cat Soul" (Diamond GEMCD 017).
The lovely Evie - what a singer! - redid the song at A & M four
years later. This version is also out on CD: "Any Way That You
Want Me: The Complete A & M Recordings" (Japanese A & M/Universal
UICY-3315).
Well, time for me to unleash my bada bing!
MICK PATRICK
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:35:36 -0400
From: Bob Rashkow
Subject: Thanx
Thank you to everyone who's been providing discography and other
info on the Reflections. Wish I had my Osborne and Umphred books
with me but they're at home where my CPU still patiently awaits
a modem to be installed. Then I could see what other Reflections
groups are listed. Sounds like there are other, more extensive 45s
lists out there that cite ALL 6Ts 45s, even those that may not be
considered collectible globally. Anyone know of a website for this?
(citations of year, artist and label, title would suffice).
Also--as many of you know but JFTR, "Are You Ever Coming Home" was
recorded by Andy Kim as the B side of "How'd We Ever Get This Way"
in '68. I always thought Kim Weston (on the subject of "Kims") was
the original Take Me For A Little While singer; now I'm not so sure,
with Evie Sands who was rocking NYC as far back as was it '64 or '65?
First version I ever heard was Vanilla Fudge's. Typically creepy
with Stein stretching out the soul lyric until you wondered when
he'd take the next breath -
Bobster
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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:21:24 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
Mikey wrote:
> MOST Motown classics, DEFINITELY have a 4/4 high hat pattern,
> no matter what anyone says,listen to the RECORDS, boost the
> high end, it's there.
Absolutely, it's easy to spot in the stereo mixes where the
drums/rhythm are often to one side. However, in the days of
mono 45s and AM radio, the impressive feature of Motwon and
Spector records was the thundering snare/backbeat, and there
was usually enough percussion to mask the rest of the kit.
In fact, being a record nut in my teens (as opposed to live
bands), when I eventually got close up to a drumkit, and had
to position mics, I wondered what the hi-hat actually did,
commenting that "..I'd never heard one an any record I had!".
But then I began to really listen, and sure enough it was in
there knocking out 8s (accented 4s)throughout.
I'm really looking forward to "Standing In The Shadows...",
but I expect a fair bit of license for the sake of keeping the
film interesting. The classic Motown records were rattled off
cost-effectively by talented musicians (& singers) with style
and fervour. The fabulous 'sound' was more a consequence of
circumstance than some carefully conceived creative concept.
Intellectualising came later as an inevitable companion to
commercial success.
Phil
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:25:33 -0400
From: John Clemente
Subject: Re: "Girl Groups" Is Not "War and Peace"
Hello All,
I would like to thank everyone for rallying to my support. In answer to Will
Stos' question, I couldn't e-mail this person off the group because there was
no e-mail address for this person. Obviously, this person reads the Spectropop
postings, so I figured if he or she were still reading, they'd see my post.
Oakland, CA is entitled to his/her opinion as to whether or not he/she thinks
my writing is good or no good or if my slant is not to his/her liking. When
Will reviewed my book, he didn't agree with me on some points. I took offense
to the fact that Oakland's tone was extremely snide and his/her attitude
dismissive. Plus, to say that my discographies were incomplete is a joke!
True, some chapters were missing entries, but for the most part, I'd say they
were fairly complete. The big laugh was the inference that I wrote nice
articles in exchange for the interviews themselves. Since Oakland fancies
him/herself an accomplished critic, there should have been some interpretation
beyond the text. If I didn't think something was up to par, I simply spent
less time writing about it. You're correct, Will, I was too gracious. What I
really should have said to Oakland is "OF COURSE THE ARTICLES ARE LAVISHED WITH
PRAISE!! I'M A FAN, YOU POMPOUS IDIOT!!!!!!!! FANS DON'T TRASH THE PEOPLE
THEY ADMIRE, BOZO!!!!!" But, I wanted to stay away from name calling. As for
inviting him to e-mail me so we can talk about it, if he can manage to read
between THAT line, all I can say is "hey, I'm from the Bronx! That's my stock
answer to a challenge like that." To all of you, thank you again.
Regards,
John Clemente
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 06:32:40 +0200
From: Eddy Smit
Subject: Re: Online vinyl price guides?
Zombie:
> Are there any online price guides for '50s-'60s-'70s vinyl singles and LPs?
> There are plenty of other kinds of music reference guides online, but none
> that I can find for valuing old vinyl. All the collector's guides seem to be
> physical books only. Are there some good sites that I'm unaware of?
You may want to try http://www.recordmaster.com. It's pretty limited (no return
for the Reflections, for example), but it's the only site I know of that has
values listed.
Have a ball,
Eddy
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End
