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Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Their Own Covers
From: Leonardo Flores
2. Re: how can they do that?
From: Zombie7123
3. We miss you Claudine!!!
From: Ken Levine
4. Re: Byrds
From: Richard Hattersley
5. Don Ralke
From: Paul Urbahns
6. Re: Artie Wayne/Freddie & The Dreamers
From: Mike Edwards
7. Re: The Actionettes
From: Phil Milstein
8. Re: how can they do that?
From: bryan
9. Re: Their Own Covers
From: Paul Richards
10. Re: how can they do that?
From: Frank
11. Don Ralke
From: Rex Strother
12. Re: Then He Kissed Me - official!
From: Stuffed Animal
13. Continuing story of who played on what
From: J.H. Ket
14. BYRDS in the studio
From: Freeman Carmack
15. Re: Art for Artie's sake
From: Artie Wayne
16. Re: Melody thievery
From: Stewart Mason
17. re: Art for Arties' sake
From: Artie Wayne
18. Re: Byrds
From: Mikey
19. RIP Michael Stewart
From: Bobby Lloyd
20. Re: Continuing story of who played on what
From: Mikey
21. Re: BYRDS in the studio
From: Mikey
22. Re: BYRDS in the studio
From: Ron Weekes
23. Re: Freddie & The Dreamers
From: Artie Wayne
24. Re: Copyrights
From: James Botticelli
25. Odds& Sods
From: Ken Silverwood
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:47:20 -0000
From: Leonardo Flores
Subject: Their Own Covers
One of my favorite covers from an earlier version done by
the same group is Flo & Eddie's Version of "Elenore". The
Turtles version is a true pop masterpiece while Flo & Eddie's
version is a great rock song. Dig how they mic-ed the drums
on the stereo version on the F&E version! Both versions are
very fun and exciting.
I have brought this up before but I believe one of the most
"perfect" 60s pop songs ever recorded was Gary Lewis and the
Playboys' song "Jill". Just an all around fantastic arrangement,
songwriting, performance, mix, recording, etc etc. I still
can't get enough of those flutes with the delay and what I
have to assume are Hal Blaine's tom-toms throughout the song.
Just seems the song was well thought out but at the same time
didn't lose its spontaneity when it was recorded.
I'm off to see the falling stars.
Cheers
Leonardo
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:29:14 -0000
From: Zombie7123
Subject: Re: how can they do that?
David A. Young wrote:
> While authorship of "Someday" is credited to the group,
> its melody is 100% that of Rachel and the Revolvers' "Number
> One", written by Brian Wilson and Gary Usher. Start to finish.
> I'm not talking about a section or a heavy influence. I'm
> talking litigation-level thievery. How is this possible?
> Did they just hope that no one would notice?
Hey, it happens all the time. I have a copy of Jorge Ben's
1972 Brazilian hit "Taj Mahal" which has the EXACT same melody
of Rod Stewart's 1978 "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?" Oh, did I mention
that Rod Stewart is known to have visited Brazil in 1972 when
"Taj Mahal" was at the top of the charts and blasting out of
every radio? Coincidence? Jorge Ben didn't think so either.
He sued Rod and won a huge out-of-court cash settlement;
apparently the royalties from "Do Ya..." are now donated in
perpetuity to Unicef. But the real question is the same: what
in hell did Rod think he was doing? Did he actually think he
was going to get away with it? Or was it unconscious plagiarism
a la George Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine? Rod refuses
to discuss it.
There are dozens of other examples as well: I listen to a very
wide variety of music from a wide variety of eras and countries
and I hear borrowings/rip-offs/direct copying all the time. Some
are quite bizarre. (The disco hit "Do the Hustle," for example,
is a 100% direct copy of a 1920s-era Louis Armstrong tune! Who
would have known?) There was a brilliant "Partridge Family"
episode (if such a thing is possible) that goes into this topic
in some depth: Keith composes a great new song for the band,
only to realize too late that it was a tune he had once heard
somewhere else. Much hot water and hilarity ensues.
Personally, I think someone should write a whole book on this
topic.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:38:46 -0800
From: Ken Levine
Subject: We miss you Claudine!!!
FINALLY !!!! Just in time for winter and the ski season!!!
The website we've all been waiting for. The most misunderstood
woman in show business. It's time to forgive and forget and
celebrate....
CLAUDINE LONGET
http://home.earthlink.net/~elbroome/longet/
Ken
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:00:34 +0000
From: Richard Hattersley
Subject: Re: Byrds
Mikey:
>Not so fast, Jackson. Hal Blaine played on "Turn Turn Turn".
Is that really true? I had always thought that it was Clarke.
Where did you find this info. I'll admit I've always been amazed
that the drums sounded so "pro" on this track when compared to some
confirmed Mike Clarke recordings like "Change Is Now". So I wouldn't
be surprised if it was Blaine.
Richard
http://www.mp3.com/richard_snow
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:29:04 EST
From: Paul Urbahns
Subject: Don Ralke
There's been discussion on Don Ralke. He was the musical director
of the very first Mystic Moods album, "One Stormy Night". We know
what a trend that started.
Paul Urbahns
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:31:16 -0500
From: Mike Edwards
Subject: Re: Artie Wayne/Freddie & The Dreamers
Artie wrote:
> and another song by Freddy and the Dreamers....produced
> by Dennis Lambert and Lou Courtney ....for the now infamous
> "Do the Freddy" album..."In my Baby's Arms" which I wrote with
> Ben Raleigh."
This song is now on musica, and it is a nice piece of Merseybeat.
Enjoy,
Mike Edwards
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:56:45 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: The Actionettes
Delia Barnard wrote:
> Hello Jimmy/Potential Actionettes...
> Actionettes delights in being a sexist organization whereby
> we ONLY LET LADIES JOIN!
> You boys go and start your own dance troupe!
> We will be happy to have joint shows with you though...
> Location is not a problem as long as you don't mind travelling
> to shows....You will have to learn the dances by email though!
Dear Actionettes,
I regret to inform you that I'll be unable to take you up on your
kind offer to become the first male Actionette, due to an ongoing
electrolysis appointment at precisely the time of your weekly
rehearsals. And dang the luck, too, as I had prepared an absolutely
splendid Actionette name for myself: Pleshette, after the
glamdiferorous '60s Disneyette Suzette Pleshette. Perhaps next year.
Until then,
--Phil M.(ette)
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:50:54 -0800
From: bryan
Subject: Re: how can they do that?
>There was a brilliant "Partridge Family"
> episode (if such a thing is possible) that goes into this topic
> in some depth: Keith composes a great new song for the band,
> only to realize too late that it was a tune he had once heard
> somewhere else. Much hot water and hilarity ensues.
I believe, if memory serves, that Keith's new song was an exact
duplicate of the song that his brother Danny had written. He'd
heard it performed by Danny in the next bedroom, and it seeped
through the wall and into Keith's subconcious.
Bryan
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:55:17 EST
From: Paul Richards
Subject: Re: Their Own Covers
I agree Leonardo,'Jill' is such a fantastic record,I'd love to
hear if Gary Lewis did anything similar from 68/69.I'll have to
get out my copy & give it a spin again.
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:56:45 +0100
From: Frank
Subject: Re: how can they do that?
Zombie7123:
> But the real question is the same: what
> in hell did Rod think he was doing? Did he actually think he
> was going to get away with it? Or was it unconscious plagiarism
> a la George Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine? Rod refuses
> to discuss it.
I'd like to know where does this "unconscious plagiarism a la George
Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine?" version comes from. Was this
the official explanation from George himself? If it is so, with all
due respect -and I really like George Harrison- I don't believe it
one second. Unconscious plagiarism may happen with an unknown previous
work, but I'll never believe that with all the people who worked with
George (if only during the recording session) not one of them (including
George himself) recognised "He's So Fine". A million seller and a huge
success in Europe too! Come on. Just as I don't believe any more that
Rod Stewart was the victim of "unconscious plagiarism a la George
Harrison"
Frank
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:52:41 -0700
From: Rex Strother
Subject: Don Ralke
I noticed the name of Don Ralke pop up and I've been trying to
find out anything about this 45 and the Kay Bell Singers.
Can anyone help? My aunt Kay Bell had this among her personal
effects, but does not recall recording it.
BECAUSE I LIKE YOU (Childress) / VALLEY OF ROMANCE (Childress)
Kay Bell Singers
with Don Ralke Orchestra
Hot Records H-4 / 45 rpm
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:55:34 +0000
From: Stuffed Animal
Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me - official!
I wonder how many "takes" it took La La Brooks to get the
vocals down to Phil's satisfaction?
Stuffed Animal
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:31:01 +0100
From: J.H. Ket
Subject: Continuing story of who played on what
Bill George:
>> Earlier in the book, he opens the discussion of whether
>> or not the Byrds played on their own records. According to
>> Chris Hillman and everyone else interviewed, "Mr. Tambourine
>> Man" featured McGuinn on electric 12-string and McGuinn,
>> Clark and Crosby on vocals. All the other instruments were
>> played by studio musicians. But the quintet of McGuinn, Clark,
>> Hillman, Crosby and Clarke played on all the other recordings.
Mikey:
>Not so fast, Jackson. Hal Blaine played on "Turn Turn Turn".
Earl Palmer claims in his book "Back Beat" that he played drums
on the "Pacific recordings" of the Byrds. Do the linernotes of
one of the recent re-releases of those sessions say anything about
this subject?
Hans Ket
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:39:02 -0000
From: Freeman Carmack
Subject: BYRDS in the studio
If you listen to the hidden studio out-takes and chatter on
THE NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS reissue, an angry argument breaks
out between David Crosby and Mike Clarke regarding his drumming.
I seem to remember reading that Jim Gordon finished the tracks
that David took exception to.
I also remember reading that, at least on the early tracks
released to radio, Hal Blaine was the drummer.
Freeman Carmack
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:49:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: Re: Art for Artie's sake
Jan.....the Art Wayne on "Try,Try Again" isn't me. It may be a
forties band singer who had the same name and passed away about
thirty years ago.
regards,
Artie Wayne
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:38:27 -0500
From: Stewart Mason
Subject: Re: Melody thievery
David A. Young asks:
>But then track ten came on and my pleasure turned to dismay. While
>authorship of "Someday" is credited to the group, its melody is 100%
>that of Rachel and the Revolvers' "Number One", written by Brian
>Wilson and Gary Usher. Start to finish. I'm not talking about a
>section or a heavy influence. I'm talking litigation-level thievery.
>How is this possible? Did they just hope that no one would notice?
Probably more like they figured no one would care. The Prissteens album
(which I too like a lot) probably sold about 18 copies, hardly enough to go
to the expense of litigation. The last time I remember someone getting
popped for melody theft was Elastica's first album, back in '95, and you
might remember that Wire and the Stranglers (the UK post-punk bands who
Elastica quite blatantly stole distinctive melodies from) only called foul
when Elastica's album became a hit.
This happens more often than you'd suspect. Late '70s UK power-poppers the
Motors baldly ripped off the melody of the Grass Roots' "Sooner Or Later"
for their single "Forget About You," and a couple of albums later did the
same with Steve Stills' "Love the One You're With" for their song "Love and
Loneliness." And check out the chorus of Madonna's "Beautiful Stranger":
you can't tell me she's never heard Love's "She Comes In Colors".
Stewart
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:06:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: re: Art for Arties' sake
David A Young:
> I'd like to jump on the Artie Wayne Welcome Wagon with a
> mention of 1963's "Where Does a Rock & Roll Singer Go?"
> written and recorded by Artie on Liberty 55625.
David......Thanks for remembering " Where does a Rock n' Roll
singer go ?" My other solo releases were singles on Smash as
Artie Wayne.....on Coed as Terry Boyd....on DCP as Neil Sheppard
......on PYE as Ace of Spades. I also had an album on Casablanca
as Arthur Wayne.....and an album Tomorrow productions distributed
by Roulette as SHADOW MANN [not to be confused with Shadow Morton]
> The bright, punchy production and hooks simply scream Nevins-
> Kirschner, even though neither they nor Aldon are present
> except in spirit.
You busted me!!! I was a staff witer at Nevins/Kirshner
from 1959 to 1961. I was an aspiring pop singer who learned how to
write songs from Carole King, Gerry Goffin, Howie Greenfield.
Ironicaly, It was Barry Mann who worked on demos with and showed me
how to write better hooks.
regards,
Artie Wayne
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:47:16 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Byrds
Richard Hattersley:
> Is that really true? I had always thought that it was Clarke
> on Turn Turn Turn. Where did you find this info.
In an interview with Hal, he talks about how the problem with
recording that song was the INSTRUMENTS, how the band kept
coming in wrong. If you listen to the drumming, its vintage Hal.
Nobody "pops" the snare drum quite like Hal does.
Your Friend,
Mikey
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:16:03 EST
From: Bobby Lloyd
Subject: RIP Michael Stewart
Michael Stewart, two-time Grammy nominee who lead the popular
1960s folk-rock group We Five and produced Billy Joel's
breakthrough "Piano Man' album, died Wednesday at age 57
after a long illness.
------------------
[ The full story can be found in the articles area
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/articles ]
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:59:28 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Continuing story of who played on what
Hans:
> Earl Palmer claims in his book "Back Beat" that he played
> drums on the "Pacific recordings" of the Byrds. Do the
> linernotes of one of the recent re-releases of those sessions
> say anything about this subject?
Now THIS I do not believe. Maybe he played on the Beefeaters 45,
but that's got to be about it. The Pacific Recordings (I assume
you mean the World Pacific Recordings) were only intended as demos
to get the band a record deal, and Clark is DEFINITELY on those
recordings. The drumming pretty much stinks on those recordings,
no way that's Earl Palmer. Also no way they'd PAY Earl Palmer to
play on demos.
Of course, Earl may be confused. He may have played on a later day
Byrds track when Hal wasn't available. Happened a lot, that's why
Earl is on "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", Hal was doing another
date.
Mike
Your Friend
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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:03:44 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: BYRDS in the studio
Freeman Carmack:
> I also remember reading that, at least on the early tracks
> released to radio, Hal Blaine was the drummer.
Yea, Terry Melcher used the Wrecking crew on most of his
productions, and why not? They knew how to make the hits.
The Rip Chords, The Fantastic Baggies, Bruce and Terry,
The Woodies, The Legendary Masked Surfers, The Wheel Men...
all TM productions, all Wrecking Crew.
Mikey
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:49:08 -0700
From: Ron Weekes
Subject: Re: BYRDS in the studio
Freeman wrote:
> If you listen to the hidden studio out-takes and chatter on
> THE NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS reissue, an angry argument breaks
> out between David Crosby and Mike Clarke regarding his drumming.
And you'll also hear producer Gary Usher trying to keep things under
contol. Not an enviable job!
Ron Weekes
http://www.garyusher.com
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:57:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Artie Wayne
Subject: Re: Freddie & The Dreamers
Mike Edwards:
> This song [Freddie & the Dreamers' "In My Baby's Arms"] is now on
> musica, and it is a nice piece of Merseybeat.
Thanks Mike.........I can barely remember it.
regards, Artie Wayne
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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:55:42 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: Copyrights
Zombie7123:
> I hear borrowings/rip-offs/direct copying all the time. Some are
> quite bizarre. Personally, I think someone should write a whole
> book on this topic.
I heard a report on the Warner Brothers, makers of the film
'Casablanca', suing the Marx Brothers for using the word in 'Night
In Casablanca'. Groucho argued that you couldn't own the rights to a
country's name, furthermore that the Marx Brothers were copyrighted
before Warner Brothers existed and that the Marxes would sue the
Warners for using "brothers" after the Marx boys used it!
JB
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:55:28 -0000
From: Ken Silverwood
Subject: Odds& Sods
Just a quick run through of a few ongoing threads:
I always thought of Dave Clark's drumming as a wind up
(key-wise) and he could out smile Mighty Max any day of the
week. The Five & The Hermits were always more popular in the
US than UK as a result of their constant touring in the USA,
compared to relatively few jaunts in the UK. - Mr. Clark was
a very shrewd businessman.
The note progression used at the outset of "Then He Kissed Me"
has been used on a few recordings besides "Boys Cry", it's on
"If Mary's There" by Brian Hyland, which also uses a variation
on the middle section of "Save The Last Dance For Me" plus Bruce
Springsteen's "Racing In The Streets"
Just been listening to the Paris Sisters "Always Waitin'" and
picked out the line "you've lost that lovin' feeling". Is that
where it comes from as I've never heard it used before or since?
After the good words spoken by the good people of Spectropop I
have been out and invested in a copy of John Clemente's book on
Girl Groups, I have not been disappointed, thank you John.
Regards
Ken On The West Coast
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End
