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Volume #0113 July 8, 1998
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Radio Caroline - The all day Music Station
Subject: Oldies radio
Sent: 07/07/98 3:01 am
Received: 07/07/98 7:47 am
From: Alan Haber, zoogXXXX@XXXlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
Claudia Cunningham wrote:
>One of the things that annoy me most about the so called "oldies"
>stations is the fact that there is a great conspiracy of silence
>toward half of the songs that were very popular in the 50s ad 60s.
I've said this elsewhere, but it's a good idea to repeat it here:
there is no such conspiracy. I've worked in radio on and off for
21 years. No radio station conspires to keep good music from
listeners. It's just that stations are in business to make money,
pure and simple.
Stations do tons of research -- too much, many think -- to come to
conclusions they ought to be able to reach with minimal research
and a good gut to trust. For some stations, only songs that topped
or nearly topped the national charts are play-worthy; for others,
it's songs that were regional hits.
Let's take your example of Sam The Sham. I hear "Wooly Bully" and
"Lil' Red Riding Hood" on oldies radio, but never "Ju Ju Hand" --
that song only reached #26 on the Billboard charts. You might hear
that at night on the weekends, when listenership might be somewhat
leaner, but not during peak dayparts.
Same goes for The Temps. "Ask The Lonely" and "Keeper of The
Castle." The former reached #24 on Billboard; the latter hit
number 10, but probably didn't get played very often because it
peaked at #10 in November of 1972, the year after it first charted.
I agree with your thoughts, Claudia, but that's the way it goes in
radio, formats be damned. There is forever a move to shorten, not
lengthen, playlists. I can't listen to the oldies station here in
the Washington, D.C.-area because they repeat the same damn songs
over and over and over again. I wish we could have a radio station
such as the one you have outlined, but as long as radio stations
are businesses, I'm afraid it can't be so.
That said, if you can listen to audio over the Internet (a
RealAudio player, available free from http://www.real.com,
and at
least a 28.8 modem will do it, although a faster modem will be
better -- 56k is primo), you might want to go to http://
www.onair.com and listen to the oldies channel. The company that
puts this together claims a 4,000-strong kitchen sink full of
tunes spread among three channels. I don't know how many are
oldies, but I can't remember a single repeat (of course, I don't
listen all day and sometimes not for a week or so). You'll hear
loads of fifties and sixties and some seventies. And you'll hardly
ever hear a hit. I think you'll be in heaven.
Alan
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Subject: radio
Sent: 07/07/98 1:37 pm
Received: 07/08/98 2:26 am
From: Ron Bierma, ELRONXXXX@XXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
In a message dated 7/6/98 11:34:19 AM, you wrote:
>This is just my opinion, and my opinion plus 25 cents will buy
>you a cup of coffee, but I'm wondering if anyone out there feels
>like I do.
and a fine cup of coffee it is, Claudia...yes, I do feel the same
way you do. Did you know that Elvis had 5 hits? The Beatles had
about 7, the Beach Boys about 6, Herman's Hermits had 2, Gerry &
the Pacemakers had 1. The Hollies had 2, Never heard of this Carl
Perkins fellow. Or this Gene Vincent fellow. Heard someone called
buddy Holly once, but never again. I'm truly disgusted by oldies
radio. RB
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Subject: Radio, Radio
Sent: 07/07/98 2:56 am
Received: 07/07/98 7:47 am
From: Doc Rock, docroXXXX@XXXcom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
Radio stations have two (or more) criteria for their play lists.
Keep in mind that most radio patrons are NOT oldie freaks like you
and I are.
1. Stations (rather their consultants) do telephone polls. They
play oldies on the phone, and the person called rates each song
between 1 and 5. Any song rated 1 or rated 5 by most people is
eliminated. 1-rated songs are ruled out because they are disliked
now (without regard to chart positron). Songs rated 5 are
eliminated because (so the logic goes) any song many people really
like is a song that many others will feel equally strongly about,
but will hate instead of like! (Crazy, eh?) So stations are left
with the 3s and 4s.
2. Most radio listeners change the station immediately or put in a
tape if the song that is on is not one that they know. That
eliminates Teddy Randazzo, but allows for Beatles LP cuts that
never charted.
A station could not care les if oldie collectors like us listen.
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Subject: Re: Where Are They?
Sent: 07/07/98 2:52 am
Received: 07/07/98 7:47 am
From: James K Cribb, jkcrXXXX@XXX.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
Claudia wrote:
>One of the things that annoy me most about the so called "oldies"
>stations is the fact that there is a great conspiracy of silence
>toward half of the songs that were very popular in the 50s ad 60s.
>For instance, they will play "Wooly Bully" by Sam the Sham but how
>about the other songs which reached the top of the charts by Sam
>such as "Little Red Riding Hood", or "Ju Ju Hand"? Silence, total
>silence.
I do not listen to oldies radio, but it seems clear from this and
other recent posts it is limited in its play list. But what struck
me here is a possible part of the reason. In the 50s and 60s,
regional hits were still very much a phenomenon. And here is a
case in point, while both "Woolly Bully" and "Little Red
Ridinghood" charted in the Tampa Bay area where I cut my teeth on
top 40, however "Ju Ju Hand" never did. As has been noted, most
stations today are owned/controlled by national syndicates or use
the same national consultants. Because they are appealing to a
national audience in a highly mobile society they do not include
regional hits.
Does anyone out there have knowledge of the selection criteria?
Could it be national chart position and national sales figures
from a 45s original release that determine if it makes the "cut"?
After that I'm sure focus groups play a big part.
By our involvement on this list, we are all deeply into music. If
you handed the average boomer on the street a blank piece of paper
and said you have 15 minutes write down your top 40 favorite songs
of all time, I doubt most could even come up with 40. And if they
included "Woolly Bully" I doubt they would even remember who
played it, much less any other singles that were released by the
band.
Watch it now...
James
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Subject: Re: Where Are They?
Sent: 07/07/98 3:03 am
Received: 07/07/98 7:47 am
From: Anthony G Pavick, XXXX@XXXama.lm.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
on 07/04/98 11:33 pm, CLAUDIA CUNNINGHAM wrote
>One of the things that annoy me most about the so called "oldies"
>stations is the fact that there is a great conspiracy of silence
>toward half of the songs that were very popular in the 50s ad 60s.
You and me both. This is one of the reasons I don't listen to much
radio these days. Actually, I'd say it was closer to 90% of the
music is ignored.
>Now, I kind of concluded that the original oldie format was based
>on a bunch of businessmen who wanted to make a quick buck and who
>figured the population had a two minute memory capacity.
Radio as we knew it is almost dead, as the money grubbers don't
give a sh*t about the music and only want the advertising revenue.
I bet they actually feel they could sell a lot more ads if it
wasn't for the music.
Oh how I long for an AM station that was radio like it was then -
with the great songs and the not so great (can you say Tennessee
Bird Walk). I grew up on late nights tuned into WCFL, CKLW, WLS,
and WABC. Little by little all the AM stars faded. The last time I
heard anything that even resembled that sound was in 1988 on 66
WNBC. Late night a guy named Big Jay Sorenson did the Time Machine.
What was so great about him and the show was that he played the
lesser known things and the things not beaten to death even then
by oldies radio. Once I recall him flipping Cliff Nobles' The
Horse to play the vocal version on the B-side -- Love Is Alright.
Try to get the automatons at your local 'OldiesXX' 'Q-whatever' or
'Variety - Not' to be that brave.
I must admit to a certain pleasure in tuning into Toronto's 1050
CHUM. As far as I know it is the last remaining big metro AM-er
still doing oldies, and doing them close to the way they were in
format. Visit www.1050chum.com and listen in real audio to judge
for yourself - this is not a paid advert :-) But then I also
realize that due to Canadian content rules for Canadian stations,
much of what I'm hearing -- Bobby Curtola, Terry Black, and Barry
Allen for example, may be as worn out as what we get on our oldies
stations in the USA.
Back in 1988 I did my last stint on the air. I was on an 1000 watt
AM station in a small town doing oldies during the week and on
their FM station doing what passed for top 40 on Saturday nights.
Seeing as we had very weak management, I got a way with murder. I
dug out some goodies and once aired Conway Twitty singing Hello
Darlin' in Russian. Yep, and I played River Deep Mountain High,
too, as well as .. do you remember You Came You Saw You Conquered
(just to get a little Spector spin on this thread).
On the FM station I did my show just like the boss jocks of old.
Imagine the formats of the 60s meeting up with Guns and Roses. I
used to go home with a headache though, more because the music was
crap than for the magic.
>This is just my opinion, and my opinion plus 25 cents will buy
>you a cup of coffee, but I'm wondering if anyone out there
>feels like I do.
I'll take you up on that cuppa!
Tony
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Subject: Re: Where Are They?
Sent: 07/07/98 8:43 am
Received: 07/08/98 2:26 am
From: Ron Sauer, RGSaXXXX@XXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
In a message dated 98-07-06 12:43:30 EDT, Claudia Cunningham wrote:
>Now, I kind of concluded that the original oldie format was
>based on a bunch of businessmen who wanted to make a quick buck
>and who figured the population had a two minute memory capacity.
>They probably hired a bunch of kids who weren't even around during
>the Golden Age of Top 40 who worked cheap and just played the more
>obvious hits of the era.
I agree. Our local oldies station does play a lot of the more
obscure oldies, but it still gets tiresome hearing the standard
fare. I enjoy it when they have an "Oldies you don't hear on the
radio anymore" weekend. Occasionally some of those will stick
around a few weeks.
Ron
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Subject: RE: Where Are They?
Sent: 07/07/98 10:15 am
Received: 07/08/98 2:26 am
From: Mark Landwehr, mslXXXX@XXXbs.com
To: Spectropop List, SpectroXXXX@XXXties.com
>One of the things that annoy me most about the so called "oldies"
>stations is the fact that there is a great conspiracy of silence
>toward half of the songs that were very popular in the 50s and 60s.
You've got to understand that "oldies" stations, in fact ALL radio
stations are out to make money - And the only way to do that is to
get good ratings so they can charge more for advertising. In
today's thinking, if you play oldies that only a small percentage
of the listeners remembers, you're cutting your audience share &
hurting your rating. SO, these "oldies" stations have to play
"safe oldies" (i.e.. tunes that many people remember), which most
often means only those hits that made the Top 5 or 10 on the
Billboard charts.
>They probably hired a bunch of kids who weren't even around
>during the Golden Age of Top 40 who worked cheap and just played
>the more obvious hits of the era.
Today's deejays, program directors, music directors, and station
consultants were probably NOT around when these songs were popular
(As late as 1986, I was chewed out for playing "Baby Sittin' Boogie
" by our consultant. He said the song was never a hit!!!) - They
have to rely on those "safe oldies" 'cuz that's the only reference
they have. It does sound very disconcerting to hear a pimply-faced
voice intro a Gene Vincent oldie, but those of us who used to do
that sort of thing (and are now in our 40s and 50s) can't stand
the "corporatizing" that has gone on for the past 10 years or so
with radio. Plus, they don't want to spend the $$$ to hire us when
they can get a "pimple voice" for minimum wage. That's life, and
that's why I got out.
In the mid-70s, I was a deejay at an oldies station in Atlanta, GA
(now that's when oldies were oldies - today, Peter Frampton is an
"oldie")...Our program director was a record collector, and we used
15,000 of his platters as our playlist!!! We played virtually
everything from 1954 to 1968, and we were all quite knowledgeable
about the music. Our station was owned by a small company in
Alabama, and we didn't pull high ratings, but we had a solid core
audience that made it all worthwhile. I even got the OK from the
P.D. to put together a 3-hour Saturday afternoon show one time
that featured nothing but Phil Spector - The response was
overwhelming - Our guideline was "if it made the Top 100, play it
- if it didn't, we still might play it"....My final song was the
flip side of "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Ha" (which is the
same song BACKWARDS). We had fun!!!
But, the station didn't make $$$, was sold, and that was
that...Eventually, owners became increasingly paranoid and greedy,
playlists tightened, on-air patter became more restricted, and the
TRUE oldies station eventually faded away to what you are
complaining about today. It will never return, because everyone
wants to play it "safe" now...The name of the game today is MONEY,
like it or not.
Mark Landwehr
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Subject: Re: Everybody Loves Dean Martin
Sent: 07/07/98 4:07 pm
Received: 07/08/98 2:26 am
From: Chuck Limmer, CLimXXXX@XXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
In a message dated 98-07-06, Claudia Cunningham wrote:
>I long for a station which will broadcast the real, true music
>of the 50s and 60s, and yes, I mean everything... even Dean
>Martin's "Everybody Loves Somebody Sometime".
Claudia:
What I long for is a copy of Dean's biggest hit of the '60s on CD.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but the Martin comps I've seen
recently seem to have everything *but* "Everybody Loves Somebody."
Why one of his only two U.S. #1 singles would be left off the
various best-ofs and collections is beyond me. Anyone have a
lead(s)?
Chuck "every boy would have what I found in your arms" Limmer
n.p. _Imagination_, Brian Wilson (well, whaddayaknow, he's still got it.)
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Subject: Winky Dink
Sent: 07/07/98 3:07 am
Received: 07/07/98 7:47 am
From: David Feldman, feldXXXX@XXXderables.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
> Never heard of these duets. Wink Martindale was a local LA DJ in
> the mid sixties, although not a very hip one. I think he was on
> the MOR channel and later went into television as a game show
> host or something. The records can't be too good except maybe for
> novelty value. Anyone heard these?
>
To his credit, Wink didn't try to be hip.
He was on KFWB, the seminal rock and roll station in Los Angeles
in the 1950's. Most of the staff were hipsters some of whom were
genuinely engaged by rock (B. Mitchell Reed) and some who were not
(Bill Ballance, one of the great radio talents of all time).
Wink actually had quite the recording career. Along with Rick Dees,
and J.P. Richardson, he was a disc jockey with a gold record (for
"Deck of Cards"). And he released several other singles on Dot
Records, including one I actually like -- "Black Land Farmer."
Dave Feldman
CD of the Month: It's a tie!
Belle & Sebastian: "If You're Feeling Sinister"
Billy Bragg & Wilco: "Mermaid Ave."
Word of the Week: "blasphemous"
Lyric of the Week: Woody Guthrie:
"I said little girl, it's plain to see,
there ain't nobody who can sing like me.
She said it's hard for me to see,
how one little boy got so ugly."
Best Time Killer of the 90's: Filling out the UPDATED gender survey at
"http://www.imponderables.com"
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: 7/07/98 12:45 am (Dunes Records)
Sent: 07/07/98 8:52 am
Received: 07/08/98 2:26 am
From: Ron Sauer, RGSaXXXX@XXXom
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXX@XXXties.com
In a message dated 98-07-06 12:43:30 EDT, Jamie LePage wrote:
<< A very revealing post, Paul. Thanks! I hope at some point we
can discuss Dunes label and its hits, especially as they involve
Spector and Las Vegas. I mean, Dunes was connected with the Vegas
hotel somehow, wasn't it?
>>
>From Mark Ribowsky's book "He's a Rebel":
"Ray Peterson, the country singer, who had a big hit with Jeff
Barry's "Tell Laura I Love Her" in 1960, had broken with RCA
Records after five years and begun a label with his manager, Stan
Shulman. The label was called Dunes, after the Las Vegas Hotel
where Peterson did a four-month run every year." The book goes on
to say that Spector and Peterson had met earlier and hit it off.
Spector did the producing because Leiber and Stoller were booked
up.
Ron
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END
