http://www.spectropop.com __________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0422 June 19, 2000 __________________________________________________________ Fun and entertainment that every home needs Subject: that one recording session Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: Jack Madani To: Spectropop! spectropop writes: >been present at ONE recording session for one single song, >which would it be? And why? And what would you have >changed / suggested, if anything? dewd, there's a lot of ways I could go with this. But I guess maybe if I really had to choose, maybe I'd go for something like: the I Got You Babe session, because I'd like to see the look on the faces of the musicians during playback when they realized that Sonny "don't forget the fries when you come back with the hamburgers" Bono had come up something that good. That would have been something to see. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Strawberry Children Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Lindsay Martin To: Spectropop! Dr Hibbert wrote: >"It's A Soft Rock World" JPN : 1996 Keystone SR 9601 (CD) >Love Years Coming / Strawberry Children This is a Jimmy Webb song, by a group of which he was a member. Nice song, hippie love & peace. Lindsay --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Wrecking Crew Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Hi Everyone, just thought I`d mention that there is an article/interview with Hal Blaine and Don Randi in the new issue of Discoveries magazine. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Count Basie plays Rock and Roll with Alan Freed Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Paul Urbahns To: Spectropop! << Not as off-topic as it sounds, Doug. By co-incidence, I've been listening to some Count Basie from the 30s & 40s in recent days and remarking on how close some of these tracks are to early rock'n'roll. Lindsay >> Count Basie was used by Alan Freed as the "backup band" to accompany artists on some of his stage shows. A good example of this is the record "Rock 'N Roll Radio" on Radiola MR-1087. So it wasn't just Frank Sinatra that appreciated Basie's talent. Paul Urbahns --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Here Come The Girls Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Jack Madani To: Spectropop! Once again demonstrating my cluelessness, I wonder if someone could help bring me up to date on the most recent state of the Here Come The Girls series. I currently own volume numbers: 1 (catalog NEX CD 111) 3 (catalog NEX CD 193) 4 (catalog SEQUEL 1012-2, and actually labeled "Volume 1" but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be volume 4) 6 (catalog NEM CD 718) 7 (catalog NEM CD 752) 8 (catalog NEM CD 845) 9 (catalog NEM CD 950) What if anything comes after volume 9? And who carries the discs of this series? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B-52's Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Marti Gallowitz To: Spectropop! >How in hell did a band out of Athens GA in the late >seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been >an impossible to find obscure single by a band that >everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder? Wax 'n' Facts 432 Moreland Ave Atlanta, Ga Home of DB records, too. And (I think) there was a Wax in Athens as well. Great shop. I bought tons of used vinyl there in those early days of punk/new wave. I know there are Spectropop people who can tell this story better than me . . . --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: How In The Hell? Here's How Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: DJ JimmyB To: Spectropop! In a message dated 6/12/0 2:20:53 PM, you wrote: >How in hell did a band out of Athens GA (B-52's) in the late >seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been >an impossible to find obscure single by a band (The Sunrays)that >everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder? Don't forget that the late 7T's was probably basic/punk rock's richest period. It was then that bands were coming along and mining 50's and 6T's sounds at a furious rate. EVERYONE did a rockabilly tune. EVERYBODY did a surf tune. EVERYBODY did some garage rock. When I say EVERYBODY, I'm not talking about Radio Rock. That was so corporate as to be not worth the time of day. NOT everybody did Soft Rock though and I think that's part of the reason for its current popularity. Its the only form of rock not re done to death. The B-52's were a significant part of this movement and probably dug deeeeep to find something different to retro-fit onto their tunes. And don't forget they found the record about 13 years after it came out. That would be like finding a reddid from 1987 today...Not implausible...JB --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B52s Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Hi Jack Interesting thread on the B52s Rock Lobster and the Sunrays . I`ve never heard the Sunrays so I can`t compare the songs but what is interesting and why I had to post is the fact that may shed some light on your question: On one of their later records, Song For A Future Generation, each member of the B52s has a spoken part in which they reveal something about themselves and Fred Schnieder says his hobby is "collecting records". So maybe there is that connection between Rock Lobster and the Sunrays.Being a collector, Fred may have discovered that obscure song and figured on "borrowing" from it in hopes that no one would ever have heard of the Sunrays. Just a thought. John Rausch Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2469/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B52s Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: David Mirich To: Spectropop! Jack wrote: << This is totally freaking me out. You know the B-52's "Rock Lobster," that terrific slice of retro-surf-punk-whatever? I think they copped several of its essential riffs from a Sunrays tune called "Don't Take Yourself Too Seriously." (snip) How in hell did a band out of Athens GA in the late seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been an impossible to find obscure single by a band that everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder?>> I wouldn't underestimate the B-52s in their search for inspiration. I remember analyzing one of their songs that was totally reminiscent of an obscure Beach Boys song. IMO, the B-52s created some of the most amazing music in all of pop. Plus, anyone who loves the Sunrays as much as I do is allright by me! I will listen to the songs you mentioned Jack, but I'm sure that you are right. It just goes to show you how musically sophisticated the late Ricky Wilson was. Dave Mirich --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Sunrays Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Jamie LePage To: Spectropop! During their short lived career, the Sunrays released some excellent surf-oriented material and had two memorable hits with I Live For the Sun and Andrea. Somehow, though, I think knowing about the rift between Murray and the Beach Boys has made it difficult for me to listen objectively to the Sunrays' music. Beach Boy Carl Wilson introduced his father to singer/songwriter Rick Henn. After Carl's father was fired as the Beach Boys manager, he sought out Rick Henn and organized a band specifically with the idea of showing Carl and his brothers that Dad was the true genius behind the Beach Boys. Murray "OK, Brian, I'm a genius too" Wilson wanted to outbeach his sons, particularly Brian. Knowing what we do about the problems between Murray and the Beach Boys, Murray's actions seem likely under the circumstances. Long before all the Beach Boys docu-dramas, Endless Harmonies and "Vintage Sunrays", all I knew about Murray and the Sunrays was the Tower LP, and although I hadn't listened to it in quite some time, I remember thinking the album was weak save for the two hits Andrea and I Live For The Sun. After Jack's post about the B52s, I re-listened to the band's material and had a whole new take on it, albeit reaching a similar conclusion as before. Maybe I know too much about the history to be objective. Yes, the Sunrays songs are as silly as surf songs can be, but they are written and performed WITHOUT A HINT OF IRONY. The Sunrays records sound like what the Beach Boys would have sounded like in 1966 if Brian hadn't "f**ked with the formula". The Shangri-las' Leader of the Pack is ludicrous, but you get the feeling Shadow, Jeff and Ellie knew it at the time. Likewise, J&D/Rip Chords "Gas Money" is a put on, while Sunrays "Outta Gas" tackles the same subject as seriously as a teenager with a new pimple. Take a song like ""Hi, How Are You?", with its relentless chorus of: Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you I can just picture Murray saying to songwriter Henn "C'mon Ricky buddy. Ya wanna be a success? Well listen to me, now, remember what I did with those bums the Beach Boys. Now ya gotta good song here, but ya gotta put your heart into it. Just sing "Hi there how are you" over and over. You gotta make the kids remember the title." How about "Car Party" which not so coincidentally name checks both the Beach Boys and Dad in the closing couplet of the chorus. This seems all too strange. "I Just Have to Be Myself", written by someone named HIAL BANCROFT KING, repeats the lines in nursery rhyme-like ding dong ding dong fashion: I just have to be myself Be myself and nobody else .....again, without a hint of irony. Pretty scary! Hial King also wrote "You Don't Phase Me" (sic) for the group. None of the band, nor Murray, nor anyone at Tower or Irving Music bothered to mention to Mr. King that it should have been faze... However, "Still" is the funniest track on the CD. I can't help but think of Murray singing the lyric to his sons. "Please take me back, and if you do, baby, I'll never be jealous anymore. I've been going around to all the dances, and I found nobody that can compare with you. I miss you so much that if you give me another chance, I'll never let you down." Bruce & Terry, Fantastic Baggys, Rip Chords, and to a certain extent Jan & Dean all traded in the same wares as did Murray's Sunrays. Musicianship is solid, vocal arrangements refined, recording top notch and songwriting patchy but with some very strong high points. Rick can do a pretty good Young Brian falsetto, too. But so much of their material sounds "square" (for lack of a better term), I can't help but think the blame has to go to Murray and perhaps arranger Don Ralke (Can anyone redeem Ralke by pointing to some better arrangements?). Anyone feel differently? Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Lawsuit Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Looks like Ronnie & the girls won XXX John Rausch Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2469/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Ellie Greenwich Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! One more post: Just thought I`d pass this link along in case anyone`s interested. http://elliegreenwich.com/index.html John Rausch --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- ADMIN NOTE: After more than a year of making queries and writing letters, Spectropop is very pleased to announce that lyricist extraordinaire, Mr. Hal David, has agreed to field questions from our group for a special Hal David issue of Spectropop. Mr. David has been quoted as saying "the melody has to feel like it was made for the lyric and the lyric like it was made for the melody, and to do that requires an accommodation of sorts. It shouldn't look like there is an accommodation. One should just mesh into the other. If you are able to tell which was written first, the lyric or the melody, then there is something wrong with the song." Having the opportunity to pose questions to one of the most acclaimed and beloved lyricists of all time is truly exciting, and judging from the above quote, Mr. David is sure to bring some fascinating insights to our group about the songwriting process itself as well as his work specifically. Questions for Mr. David should be posted to the regular list address. The (unanswered) questions will be posted in the next two digests. This will allow list members enough time to give due consideration to their questions. The questions will then be forwarded to Mr. David in the form of an email interview questionnaire. Mr. David is traveling right now. He is extremely busy with a show for the Songwriters' Hall of Fame in New York (of which he is Chairman of the Board), and in in a few days he will go to London, where Burt Bacharach and he are to receive an award and be honored with a show of their songs at the Royal Albert Hall. For this reason, it may take some time before we receive his comments to our questions. He asks for our understanding. Special thanks to those list members who helped make this exciting project come to fruition. End
http://www.spectropop.com __________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0422 June 19, 2000 __________________________________________________________ Fun and entertainment that every home needs Subject: that one recording session Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: Jack Madani To: Spectropop! spectropop writes: >been present at ONE recording session for one single song, >which would it be? And why? And what would you have >changed / suggested, if anything? dewd, there's a lot of ways I could go with this. But I guess maybe if I really had to choose, maybe I'd go for something like: the I Got You Babe session, because I'd like to see the look on the faces of the musicians during playback when they realized that Sonny "don't forget the fries when you come back with the hamburgers" Bono had come up something that good. That would have been something to see. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Strawberry Children Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Lindsay Martin To: Spectropop! Dr Hibbert wrote: >"It's A Soft Rock World" JPN : 1996 Keystone SR 9601 (CD) >Love Years Coming / Strawberry Children This is a Jimmy Webb song, by a group of which he was a member. Nice song, hippie love & peace. Lindsay --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Wrecking Crew Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Hi Everyone, just thought I`d mention that there is an article/interview with Hal Blaine and Don Randi in the new issue of Discoveries magazine. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Count Basie plays Rock and Roll with Alan Freed Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Paul Urbahns To: Spectropop! << Not as off-topic as it sounds, Doug. By co-incidence, I've been listening to some Count Basie from the 30s & 40s in recent days and remarking on how close some of these tracks are to early rock'n'roll. Lindsay >> Count Basie was used by Alan Freed as the "backup band" to accompany artists on some of his stage shows. A good example of this is the record "Rock 'N Roll Radio" on Radiola MR-1087. So it wasn't just Frank Sinatra that appreciated Basie's talent. Paul Urbahns --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Here Come The Girls Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Jack Madani To: Spectropop! Once again demonstrating my cluelessness, I wonder if someone could help bring me up to date on the most recent state of the Here Come The Girls series. I currently own volume numbers: 1 (catalog NEX CD 111) 3 (catalog NEX CD 193) 4 (catalog SEQUEL 1012-2, and actually labeled "Volume 1" but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be volume 4) 6 (catalog NEM CD 718) 7 (catalog NEM CD 752) 8 (catalog NEM CD 845) 9 (catalog NEM CD 950) What if anything comes after volume 9? And who carries the discs of this series? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B-52's Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Marti Gallowitz To: Spectropop! >How in hell did a band out of Athens GA in the late >seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been >an impossible to find obscure single by a band that >everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder? Wax 'n' Facts 432 Moreland Ave Atlanta, Ga Home of DB records, too. And (I think) there was a Wax in Athens as well. Great shop. I bought tons of used vinyl there in those early days of punk/new wave. I know there are Spectropop people who can tell this story better than me . . . --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: How In The Hell? Here's How Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: DJ JimmyB To: Spectropop! In a message dated 6/12/0 2:20:53 PM, you wrote: >How in hell did a band out of Athens GA (B-52's) in the late >seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been >an impossible to find obscure single by a band (The Sunrays)that >everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder? Don't forget that the late 7T's was probably basic/punk rock's richest period. It was then that bands were coming along and mining 50's and 6T's sounds at a furious rate. EVERYONE did a rockabilly tune. EVERYBODY did a surf tune. EVERYBODY did some garage rock. When I say EVERYBODY, I'm not talking about Radio Rock. That was so corporate as to be not worth the time of day. NOT everybody did Soft Rock though and I think that's part of the reason for its current popularity. Its the only form of rock not re done to death. The B-52's were a significant part of this movement and probably dug deeeeep to find something different to retro-fit onto their tunes. And don't forget they found the record about 13 years after it came out. That would be like finding a reddid from 1987 today...Not implausible...JB --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B52s Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Hi Jack Interesting thread on the B52s Rock Lobster and the Sunrays . I`ve never heard the Sunrays so I can`t compare the songs but what is interesting and why I had to post is the fact that may shed some light on your question: On one of their later records, Song For A Future Generation, each member of the B52s has a spoken part in which they reveal something about themselves and Fred Schnieder says his hobby is "collecting records". So maybe there is that connection between Rock Lobster and the Sunrays.Being a collector, Fred may have discovered that obscure song and figured on "borrowing" from it in hopes that no one would ever have heard of the Sunrays. Just a thought. John Rausch Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2469/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: B52s Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: David Mirich To: Spectropop! Jack wrote: << This is totally freaking me out. You know the B-52's "Rock Lobster," that terrific slice of retro-surf-punk-whatever? I think they copped several of its essential riffs from a Sunrays tune called "Don't Take Yourself Too Seriously." (snip) How in hell did a band out of Athens GA in the late seventies ever hear of what would have at the time been an impossible to find obscure single by a band that everyone assumed was no more than a one-hit wonder?>> I wouldn't underestimate the B-52s in their search for inspiration. I remember analyzing one of their songs that was totally reminiscent of an obscure Beach Boys song. IMO, the B-52s created some of the most amazing music in all of pop. Plus, anyone who loves the Sunrays as much as I do is allright by me! I will listen to the songs you mentioned Jack, but I'm sure that you are right. It just goes to show you how musically sophisticated the late Ricky Wilson was. Dave Mirich --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Sunrays Received: 06/14/00 11:49 pm From: Jamie LePage To: Spectropop! During their short lived career, the Sunrays released some excellent surf-oriented material and had two memorable hits with I Live For the Sun and Andrea. Somehow, though, I think knowing about the rift between Murray and the Beach Boys has made it difficult for me to listen objectively to the Sunrays' music. Beach Boy Carl Wilson introduced his father to singer/songwriter Rick Henn. After Carl's father was fired as the Beach Boys manager, he sought out Rick Henn and organized a band specifically with the idea of showing Carl and his brothers that Dad was the true genius behind the Beach Boys. Murray "OK, Brian, I'm a genius too" Wilson wanted to outbeach his sons, particularly Brian. Knowing what we do about the problems between Murray and the Beach Boys, Murray's actions seem likely under the circumstances. Long before all the Beach Boys docu-dramas, Endless Harmonies and "Vintage Sunrays", all I knew about Murray and the Sunrays was the Tower LP, and although I hadn't listened to it in quite some time, I remember thinking the album was weak save for the two hits Andrea and I Live For The Sun. After Jack's post about the B52s, I re-listened to the band's material and had a whole new take on it, albeit reaching a similar conclusion as before. Maybe I know too much about the history to be objective. Yes, the Sunrays songs are as silly as surf songs can be, but they are written and performed WITHOUT A HINT OF IRONY. The Sunrays records sound like what the Beach Boys would have sounded like in 1966 if Brian hadn't "f**ked with the formula". The Shangri-las' Leader of the Pack is ludicrous, but you get the feeling Shadow, Jeff and Ellie knew it at the time. Likewise, J&D/Rip Chords "Gas Money" is a put on, while Sunrays "Outta Gas" tackles the same subject as seriously as a teenager with a new pimple. Take a song like ""Hi, How Are You?", with its relentless chorus of: Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you. Hi there, how are you I can just picture Murray saying to songwriter Henn "C'mon Ricky buddy. Ya wanna be a success? Well listen to me, now, remember what I did with those bums the Beach Boys. Now ya gotta good song here, but ya gotta put your heart into it. Just sing "Hi there how are you" over and over. You gotta make the kids remember the title." How about "Car Party" which not so coincidentally name checks both the Beach Boys and Dad in the closing couplet of the chorus. This seems all too strange. "I Just Have to Be Myself", written by someone named HIAL BANCROFT KING, repeats the lines in nursery rhyme-like ding dong ding dong fashion: I just have to be myself Be myself and nobody else .....again, without a hint of irony. Pretty scary! Hial King also wrote "You Don't Phase Me" (sic) for the group. None of the band, nor Murray, nor anyone at Tower or Irving Music bothered to mention to Mr. King that it should have been faze... However, "Still" is the funniest track on the CD. I can't help but think of Murray singing the lyric to his sons. "Please take me back, and if you do, baby, I'll never be jealous anymore. I've been going around to all the dances, and I found nobody that can compare with you. I miss you so much that if you give me another chance, I'll never let you down." Bruce & Terry, Fantastic Baggys, Rip Chords, and to a certain extent Jan & Dean all traded in the same wares as did Murray's Sunrays. Musicianship is solid, vocal arrangements refined, recording top notch and songwriting patchy but with some very strong high points. Rick can do a pretty good Young Brian falsetto, too. But so much of their material sounds "square" (for lack of a better term), I can't help but think the blame has to go to Murray and perhaps arranger Don Ralke (Can anyone redeem Ralke by pointing to some better arrangements?). Anyone feel differently? Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Lawsuit Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! Looks like Ronnie & the girls won http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000616/en/music-ronettes_1.html John Rausch Presenting The Fabulous Ronettes @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2469/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Ellie Greenwich Received: 06/19/00 6:40 am From: john rausch To: Spectropop! One more post: Just thought I`d pass this link along in case anyone`s interested. http://elliegreenwich.com/index.html John Rausch --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- ADMIN NOTE: After more than a year of making queries and writing letters, Spectropop is very pleased to announce that lyricist extraordinaire, Mr. Hal David, has agreed to field questions from our group for a special Hal David issue of Spectropop. Mr. David has been quoted as saying "the melody has to feel like it was made for the lyric and the lyric like it was made for the melody, and to do that requires an accommodation of sorts. It shouldn't look like there is an accommodation. One should just mesh into the other. If you are able to tell which was written first, the lyric or the melody, then there is something wrong with the song." Having the opportunity to pose questions to one of the most acclaimed and beloved lyricists of all time is truly exciting, and judging from the above quote, Mr. David is sure to bring some fascinating insights to our group about the songwriting process itself as well as his work specifically. Questions for Mr. David should be posted to the regular list address. The (unanswered) questions will be posted in the next two digests. This will allow list members enough time to give due consideration to their questions. The questions will then be forwarded to Mr. David in the form of an email interview questionnaire. Mr. David is traveling right now. He is extremely busy with a show for the Songwriters' Hall of Fame in New York (of which he is Chairman of the Board), and in in a few days he will go to London, where Burt Bacharach and he are to receive an award and be honored with a show of their songs at the Royal Albert Hall. For this reason, it may take some time before we receive his comments to our questions. He asks for our understanding. Special thanks to those list members who helped make this exciting project come to fruition. End
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