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Volume #0008 11/07/97
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Subject: Sunshine Lollipops
Sent: 11/6/97 8:05 AM
Received: 11/6/97 9:15 AM
From: Javed Jafri, jjaXXX@XXXXXXgers.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
My first post to the group. Once again thanks to Jamie for inviting me. I
look forward to participating.
A few items :
As far as my fave version of "I wonder What She's Doing Tonight". I have
always liked both and so I'd like to say it's a tie but if push comes to
shove I'd pick.....well actually I'm not sure.
I read the book on Spector that Jack Madani spoke of and found it quite
fascinating, In fact I have read it several times over the last few
years. I think it offers good insight into the era of classic
"Spectorpop".
Finally, I wanted to mention a recent article in the British mag "Record
Collector" about "Sunshine Pop" The article discusses post Brit Invasion
American pop/harmony groups with mention of everyone from the Tradewinds
to the Turtles to The Love Generation to The Sunshine Company. Curiously
no mention is made of Spanky and Our Gang. There were some interesting
discogrophies listed that made my mouth water and left me with an urge to
head straight to my favorite record store. I enjoyed the article and
suggest it to everyone on this list. It might have been in the Sept.
issue.
Javed Jafri
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: Flowerpot Men
Sent: 11/6/97 9:57 AM
Received: 11/7/97 2:04 AM
From: David Marsteller, davebXXX@XXXXXXlin.org
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Jack was asking about The Flowerpot Men. (sound of shuffling CDs) I know
that CD is around here someplace! Well I believe they were essentially a
studio group. There's a CD compilation, but it's a few years old and may
be out of print by now. In any case, the ubiquitous (is that the right
word?) Tony Burrows was in at least one lineup of the Flowerpot Men,
before being in Edison Lighthouse etc. There *is* in fact a Flowerpot Men
track, "In A Moment Of Madness", on the Tony Burrows comp, and I have
the vague feeling it's on the Flowerpot Men CD as well. Where is that
CD? I just got a CD in the mail called "Beat At Abbey Road". It looks
like it will be an interesting compilation. It has the usual Hollies,
Gerry And The Pacemakers, but also obscure acts like The Naturals and
The Paramounts. I'll try to listen to it tomorrow morning and make a few
comments...
Dave
/************************************************************************/
/** "Reach out and grab a fistful of now" **/
/** Thornetta Davis **/
/** David Marsteller davebXXX@XXXXXXlin.org **/
/************************************************************************/
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: Re: Flowerpot Men
Sent: 11/6/97 7:01 AM
Received: 11/6/97 9:15 AM
From: David Bash, bashXXX@XXXXXXt.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
> From: Jack Madani, Jack_MadXXX@XXXXXX2.nj.us
> And now for my own very latest "discovery," a band I'd never heard of
> until I had the pleasure of listening to a handful of cuts of theirs on a
> tape that Francis Greene recently sent me: The Flowerpotmen. It's
> fanTAStic stuff, "truly"-petsounds-style instrumental tracks with vocals
> that remind me of the Turtles. Can I send out a call please for more
> information about them? Are they honest to goodness as good as "Let's Go
> To San Francisco," "A Walk In The Sky," "Am I Losing You," "Silicon
> City," and "Man Without A Woman" lead me to believe?
Hi Jack,
I agree with you about the Flower Pot Men being fantastic, and here's
what I know about them:
The Flower Pot Men were a late 60s British band led by John Carter and
Ken Lewis, who had previously led The Ivy League, who some of you may
know as doing the original version of "My World Fell Down", which has
become better known as being done by Sagittarius. Carter and Lewis
brought Tony Burrows and Robin Shaw on board, and then later Neil Landon
and Pete Nelson to complete the Flower Pot Men Lineup.
Their only chart hit was "Let's Go To San Francisco", which reached #4 on
the UK charts, although it never charted in the US. Upon hearing this
song for the first time (in 1979), I had thought it was written on the
heels of Scott McKenzie's "San Francisco" (written by John Phillips of
The Mamas & The Papas), but I doubt it given that they were released
around the same time. Anyway, they had many wonderful singles including
"You Can Never Be Wrong" "A Walk In The Sky" and "In A Moment Of Madness".
In 1969 the band broke up and Carter & Lewis went on to greater fame as
members of First Class, where they penned the 1974 hit "Beach Baby",
which was Top 5 in several countries including the U.S. Tony Burrows
went on to sing lead for several bands, including White Plains ("My Baby
Loves Lovin"), Edison Lighthouse ("Love Grows") and the aforementioned
First Class on "Beach Baby".
I would highly recommend The Flowerpot Men compilation on Repertoire
Records, called "Let's Go To San Francisco", which contains 21 of their
tracks, including many that had been previously unreleased. If you can't
find that one, I believe there's another comp available though I can't
think of the label.
--
Pop Rules!!!!!
Take Care,
David
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: Ginger Glantz and Pamela Lee
Sent: 11/6/97 4:55 AM
Received: 11/6/97 9:15 AM
From: DerekAldenBill, DeXXX@XXXXXXpRecords.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Here's a topic I've never seen discussed before online, so why not now?
How about an informal poll of listees on the subject of the relative
merits of the Honeys' respective voices.
Marilyn always kind of turned me on, but I can barely stand to listen to
her sing. There's a certain Fran Dresheresque quality to her voice (and
Diane's, too) that I just can't get past.
Ginger's another story - - sounds like the Glantz genes were the ones to
have - - and of course she was more photogenic....I don't expect many to
disagree there......
Her vocal work is excellent - - and versatile. Listen to her rock on
"Hide Go Seek" and contrast it to "Goodnight, My Love"....
Anyway, with regard to discovering new music from the early 60s, Brian's
productions have certainly had their fans, but I still feel they're
underrated. Why didn't "He's A Doll" get any airplay or chart
action......?
The Beach Boys could go into a studio today and cut "She's A Doll" or
"Pamela Lee" ( just a few lyric changes would update either one for Ms.
Anderson - - they could even get a guest shot on "Baywatch"!) and get
some action out if it, I should think.
Hey, it couldn't do any worse than their last album did........
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: Re: Carter-Lewis / Ronettes in stereo
Sent: 11/6/97 4:10 AM
Received: 11/7/97 2:04 AM
From: le_page_XXX@XXXXXXies.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
>Can I send out a call please for more information
>about (The Flowerpot Men)?
I too would like to know more. Their story is really the story of a
circle of songwriter/producers from Great Britain that is often quickly
passed over. I know very little background, hopefully others on the list
can help fill in the blanks. The people involved with this circle were
writers/producers John Carter and Ken Lewis, and two Rogers (Cook and
Greenaway). Other names that often pop up in this story are Tony Burrows,
Tony Macauley, John Macleod and Geoff Stephens. A very brief history:
The Kestrels with Tony Burrows and Roger Greenaway
Carter-Lewis and the Southerners
The Ivy League with John Carter and Ken Lewis
John Carter out - Tony Burrows in (Carter continues writing and producing)
John Carter, Ken Lewis, Robin Shaw and Tony Burrows record as The
Flowerpot Men
Edison Lighthouse "Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes)"
White Plains "My Baby Loves Lovin'"
Brotherhood Of Man "United We Stand"
Tony Burrows "Melanie Makes Me Smile"
First Class" Beach Baby"
For being lesser-known, they certainly got around. In various
combinations they wrote for many artists including Fortunes, Foundations,
Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Marmalade, Flying Machine, Pickettywicket,
Manfred Mann and the Music Explosion. Yikes!
Anyway, here's a list of Flowerpot Men recordings (that I know of). I
already had it in text because I am trying to put together a discography
on Carter/Lewis. Any help will be appreciated.
Am I Losing You
Blow Away
Brave New World
Busy Doin' Nothing
Children Of Tomorrow
Cooks Of Cake And Kindness
Gotta Be Free
Heaven Knows When
In A Moment Of Madness
Journey's End
Let's Go Back To San Francisco
Let's Go To San Francisco (Part 1)
Let's Go To San Francisco (Part 2)
Man Without A Woman
Mythological Sunday
Piccolo Man
Silicon City
Sweet Baby Jane
A Walk In The Sky
White Dove
You Can Never Be Wrong
Young Birds Fly
-----------------------------------------------------------
Watson wrote:
>Paul Urbahns writes:
>
>>I am probably one of the few that actually like to hear Phil
>>Spector's work in stereo.
>
>Aha! Another heretic! Come over here and join me at the stake, fella.
>Can I be the only person who genuinely prefers the stereo mix of the
>Ronettes album to the mono?
Ronettes is one thing. X'mas album is another. The Ronettes album stands
up in stereo. The problem I have with the X'mas album is not that it is
in stereo per se, but rather that the stereo mix sounds, well, different.
>(Please put your axes down, folks, especially the Mark Linett
>custom ones that do the *really* thin slices).
*smile*
>The Polydor reissue of the Ronettes album from the mid-1970s
>was in stereo, but I don't think the stereo mix has made it
>to CD; if it has, somebody *please* tell me.
I assume the Polydor reissue means the PSI packages. That would be the
Ronettes album with the blue cover, right? I like this stereo mix too.
Yet, there is another. The Polydor reissue isn't fully spread L-R, it's
more balanced. But once upon a time...
Capitol Records Club pressed their own stereo version of the album for
club members only. Since they offered titles in both mono and stereo, a
stereo mix was needed. The label says Philles, but the matrix number is
Capitol's. It is the definitive binaural mix. ABKCO/Spector will probably
never re-release either the Capitol or Polydor stereo mixes.
There was a 9 disc box set released in UK in the 80's. I never bought it
because the only "track" I didn't have was Lover by the Ronettes. Were
the tracks on that compilation in stereo, does anyone know?
David R. Modny wrote:
>I too prefer the stereo mixes. One of my current CD faves for
>this is "The Ronettes - Ultimate Collection" ( although the
>Xmas cuts are mono :( ). It's on the Marginal Records label
>out of Brussels. Sounds like a combination of a clean vinyl
>and tape source, but the best quality I've heard yet for some
>of these tracks, after hearing similar CD's of dubious
>legality. Anyone know of a better one, quality wise, for the
>'Ronettes' stuff in stereo ?
It sounds like the Marginal CD is in stereo? At least the original album
tracks? I just bought "The Crystals - He's A Rebel - Ultimate Collection"
on the same label. The tracks are dubbed off vinyl and mastered through a
no noise system. Sound is very good to my ears, but then the tracks sound
like the original vinyl pressings, which I am quite fond of.
LePageWeb
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: songs vs. records
Sent: 11/6/97 12:27 AM
Received: 11/6/97 9:15 AM
From: Jack Madani, Jack_MadXXX@XXXXXX2.nj.us
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
>>I think the key question here is when did *sound* and/or performance
>>become more important or just as important as the song itself?
>Absolutely. That was my point.
In fact, I always have attributed the changeover from "songs" to
"records" to the Brian Wilson-slash-Beatles cold war of the mid-sixties.
Once Brian and the Fab Four retired from live performing, they began in
earnest to make "records," rather than the prior situation where they'd
write some songs at home and *then* come in to the studio to record them.
Every year in February we have this thing at our school called
"Mini-Course Week." I'm part of the team that teaches a minicourse
called The Sixties: Decade of Upheaval. My special lectures are the
Cuban Missile Crisis and.......Sixties Pop: From Songs to Records. And
that's how I describe it: between 1965 and 1967, Brian Wilson and
McCartney/Lennon/Martin got involved in a musical arms race that changed
how pop music was made.
A good way to gauge whether a particular platter is thought of as a
"song" or as a "record," IMHO, is to see how often it gets covered by
other artists. Early Beatles tunes are fairly often covered,
particularly by country artists, but not so many songs from Sgt. Pepper
or after get remade. And as for Brian Wilson tunes, well fugettaboutit.
Almost nobody bothers to cover them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Madani - Princeton Day School, The Great Road,
Princeton, NJ 08540 Jack_MadXXX@XXXXXX2.nj.us
"It is when the gods hate a man with uncommon abhorrence that they
drive him into the profession of a schoolmaster." --Seneca, 64 A.D.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: Beat At Abbey Road
Sent: 11/6/97 9:55 PM
Received: 11/7/97 2:04 AM
From: David Marsteller, davebXXX@XXXXXXlin.org
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
I've had a bit of a chance to listen to the new compilation Beat At Abbey
Road. It's quite a nice collection really. From what I can figure, the
only 'previously unreleased' track is a version of When You Walk In The
Room by Billy J. Kramer With The Dakotas. It's a surprisingly rocking
version, and the only Billy J. song I've heard thus far (well I haven't
heard many really) that wasn't awash in reverb. I know George Martin
wasn't fond of Billy's voice, but his vocal is fine here, and the Dakotas
sound really good! The credits have Mick Green on lead guitar. The
credits claim the track is unreleased in the U.K., I don't know about the
rest of the world. In skimming through the writing credits, it is
noticeable that only a few of the 28 tracks are written by the groups
themselves, and most of those are by the bigger groups (Hollies, Manfred
Mann, Gerry And The Pacemakers). One amusing anecdote concerns the
recording debut of The Whirlwinds, Graham Gouldman's early group. The
comp includes the A-side, a cover of Buddy Holly's Look At Me,
apparently the B-side was a composition by Gouldman's friend Lol Creme,
as Gouldman said "I had not really started to write songs at this time."
Wow, Graham really started his songwriting career with a bang, if he
wasn't 'really' writing in 1964 and was writing things like Bus Stop
shortly after! The other interesting bit was how Gouldman, Creme, and
Kevin Godley all knew each other years before starting 10CC. Anyhow,
this album has a number of similar early oddities, like The Roulettes
with Russ Ballard, The Paramounts (later to be Procol Harum), and
various bands with members of The Move.
Later
Dave
/************************************************************************/
/** "Reach out and grab a fistful of now" **/
/** Thornetta Davis **/
/** David Marsteller davebXXX@XXXXXXlin.org **/
/************************************************************************/
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
Subject: What If Smile Had Been Released?
Sent: 11/6/97 3:47 PM
Received: 11/7/97 2:04 AM
From: David Bash, bashXXX@XXXXXXt.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Hi everyone,
I've been wondering about something for a long time, and since there's
been so much talk about the Pet Sounds Box and the proposed "Good
Vibrations Sessions", I thought I'd pose the following:
What if Smile had actually been released in 1967, as planned? How do you
think that would have impacted the Beach Boys career? Do you think it
would not have affected the output of albums they actually did
subsequently released (i.e. would "Wild Honey", "Friends", "20/20",
"Sunflower" etc... or something like them come out anyway-I'm assuming
"Smiley Smile" would not have), or would it have altered their output
considerably, effecting a vast stylistic change?
My opinion is that had Smile come out, it would have altered their output
considerably. The press would have either lauded it as a profound work
of art, which probably would have created a great need in Brian to have
to top it with his next release, which probably would have been even more
experimental. Or, the press would have vilified it as being too
unfocused and freaky, which may have caused Brian to head into a downward
spiral of a greater magnitude than the one he actually experienced, which
ultimately might have broken up the band right then, or at least caused
them to become an "oldies" band before their time.
I'm not sure which it would be, but one thing I'm confident of is that
nothing even remotely close to "Wild Honey" would have been released, and
in some ways I'm glad that "Smile" wasn't released, because "Wild Honey"
was showed the band to have such remarkable versatility; besides, I like
it a good deal more than any configuration of "Smile" I've heard.
Okay, your turn to ramble, if you don't think this hypothetical is a
gross waste of your time. :-)
--
Spectropop Rules!!!!!
Take Care,
David
-----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
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