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______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________
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Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. John Carter/Flower Pot Men/Koki Emura
From: Mark Frumento
2. Re: A Big Thank You to Spectropop members
From: Terrie Neilson
3. Re: American Dreams...
From: Dave Swanson
4. Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
From: Robert
5. The Monkees
From: Guy Lawrence
6. Stranger on the Shore
From: Doc
7. Commercial freakout
From: Phil Milstein
8. The Teen Queens and Sherrill Rocker
From: Brian Ferrari
9. I Wonder
From: Keith Beach
10. Re: American Dreams...
From: Louise Posnick
11. Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
From: Phil Chapman
12. Re: Commercial freakout
From: Tim Looney
13. RE: Commercial freakout
From: Louise Posnick
14. Brand New Cadillac
From: Hans Ket
15. Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
From: Eric Charge
16. Re: 60s garage songs
From: James Botticelli
17. Re: American Dreams...
From: Phil Milstein
18. Re: Commercial freakout
From: Patrick Rands
19. Re: The Monkees
From: Denise
20. Re: Commercial freakout
From: james botticelli
21. Commercial freakout continued
From: Neil Hever
22. Re: The Monkees
From: richard hattersley
23. Re: The Monkees
From: Jeffrey Mlinscek
24. Looking for help (Christmas Songs)
From: Tim
25. Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
From: Billy Spradlin
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:57:13 -0400
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: John Carter/Flower Pot Men/Koki Emura
The Flower Pot Men question reminded me to comment
on/ask about John Carter related releases on CD.
Listed below are the CDreleases I know of. Can anyone
add to this list... I would love to hear from you...
1. Flower Pot Men - Let's Go to San Francisco -
Repertoire (Germany)
2. Flower Pot Men - A Walk in the Sky - RPM (UK)
3. Flower Pot Men - Peace Album/Past Imperfect -
Repertoire (Germany)
4. Stamford Bridge - 2fer CD - See For Mile (UK) -
Out of print
5. First Class - 2fer CD - See For Mile (UK) -
Out of print
6. Kincade - Best Of - Repertoire (Germany)
7. Ivy League - Major League - Sequel (UK)
8. Carter/Lewis and the Southerners - ?? (UK)
9. John Carter - As You Like It Vol 1- Westside (UK)
10. Band of the Black Watch - The Sands of Time -
GNP (UK?)
11. John Carter - The Essential Works in the Studio
1963-1982 - EM (Japan)
12. First Class - Essential Collection of - EM (Japan) -
I NEED THIS! Anyone have a tip as to where to get it!!!
Despite all of these CD releases I seems as if John Carter
really hasn't had the attention he deserves. I suppose that
is to be expected with a song writer who has used so many
names. It would be wonderful to see a renewed and more
comprehensive reissue program on bands like First Class and
Stamford Bridge.
In connection with this: does anyone know how to reach Koki
Emura of EM Records? The email address I have is out of date.
Mark
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terrie Neilson
Subject: Re: A Big Thank You to Spectropop members
Here I am - I made it!
I am the allegedly famous Terrie that Richard Tearle
speaks of. Thank you Richard for passing things along
to me. Freeman has since joined my Smothers Brothers
group and posted some great stuff.
I have to say that, likely because I came so late to
the 60s (December 1968), there were a lot of things I
missed - as are well illustrated. If I seem like a
lurker, it may only be because I'm taking in all this
stuff.
Terrie
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:04:00 -0500
From: Dave Swanson
Subject: Re: American Dreams...
Like I said, nostalgia is a cheap whore, but I never
said we all don't crave a cheap whore now and again.
And by the way, Motown isn't my main floozy, it's just
that I happened to be listening to Marvin Gaye while
typing. I also, obviously, thought it somewhat ironic
hence the mention of it at the end of my message.
My problem with these kinds of shows are they cheapen
everything. They make it all sanitized and lame. I
have no problem with enjoying the music and memories
of the past. God knows I listen to plenty of old music,
more than new stuff usually. That is not the point. The
point is this constant media push for the generic story
of the past whether it's in a show like American Dreams
or has-beens pushing "Hits Of The 60s" cds on TV
infomercials.
There is so much more to the past than what is delivered
on radio, TV, print etc. This is beyond obvious. I guess
the bottom line of all this is why are all forms of media
dragged down to the lamest forms. I know there is no answer
for that question that hasn't been answered a million times.
I ain't lookin' for an answer.
The 60s were an important time in history for many many
reasons, music being among the first and foremost. Shows
like American Dreams serve their purpose, but they are still
lame as hell.
I have nothing against "your generation", and when I said
it's over let it go, I was refering to the media. We all
have memories we want to hold on to, but these kind of
shows are just so damn corny. Kids'll find out about
stuff and yeah TV helps. Hell, Nick Drake sold more records
after his music was used in a car commercial than probably
ever before that. It's a bit unsettling a head turn every
time I hear T.Rex blaring from the TV and realize it's
another commercial. But that's what it's all come down to.
And no, I don't want to see shows like Fear Factor either,
personally if that's the choice, I'd rather not watch TV.
But that's another pit of worms to gnaw on.
Hendrix huh. OK, but I don't wish I was there.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:13:01 -0000
From: Robert
Subject: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
I have just found and joined this group today, having
been a Crystals fan since 1963. La La Brooks has the
greatest voice of all time. Two questions: On CD
"Then He Kissed Me" sounds slower, lower pitched, and
with far less treble than on my 38 year old 45, as well
as an EP and LP from the mid 80s. Did they speed up the
tape to make the records or slow it down for transfer to
CD? The records sound much better, the CD version is very
disappointing. Secondly, what is the refrain in the
Crystals' version of "I Wonder"? I've heard various
explanations, all quite different, but can't work out
La La's words in the third line of the chorus.
Many thanks,
Robert (in Australia, where THKM got to no.1 in Nov 63)
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:53:46 -0700
From: Guy Lawrence
Subject: The Monkees
Anyone know of a Monkees website that features hard
facts about their recordings, session musicians,
songwriters etc (kind of like the stuff we discuss here)
rather than just fan club type stuff and what they're
up to at the moment?
Regards,
Guy Lawrence.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:41:11 -0400
From: Doc
Subject: Stranger on the Shore
As I recall, this song originally had a different title,
a woman's name. Anyone recall that?
Doc
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:43:33 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Commercial freakout
As long as we're discussing the use of cool music on TV, I
thought it not inappropriate to bring up the topic of cool
music used in TV ads.
I am of two minds on this myself -- on the one hand, the use
of a great song to help sell a new mouthwash or laundry
detergent inevitably trivializes that song; but on the other
hand, such usage does enliven an otherwise-dull commercial,
plus it's heartening to see (or at least assume to see) our
heroes receive a tidy and wholly unexpected payday.
When I'm merely reacting and not thinking about it, I
generally enjoy hearing a groovy tune come on the TV once in
a while, albeit truncated and talked over. Cool songs were
used in commercials when I was kid, too, but back then they
were always adulterated: rerecorded in tamer arrangements,
and with the lyrics altered to suit the product in question,
usually awkwardly so. Now, not only are the original
versions used, but the selections are getting more and more
obscure, and more and more extreme. I was surprised, for
instance, when I first heard Iggy Pop's Lust For Life in an
ad (the first of many, as it turned out), and shocked when I
heard The Stooges' Raw Power. But tonight I heard a song, in
a car ad, that left me dumbfounded: The Stooges' LA Blues,
the insane, freeform freakout that closed their Funhouse LP.
Music this severe has rarely been heard on any television
broadcast, in any context.
I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these
things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who
agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same
time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a
lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it
represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit
still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and
indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention.
However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those
same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still
for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two
situations seem to be moving in opposite directions.
--Phil Milstein
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:34:41 EDT
From: Brian Ferrari
Subject: The Teen Queens and Sherrill Rocker
Hello
I have been listening to the Poodle Skirts and
Poni-Tails Vol. 3 CD (Babe 2007). I have a couple
of questions about two excellent tracks on this
collection. As this series doesn't have any type
of liner notes whatsoever, I thought I'd throw
these questions to all of you.
The track "Promises, Promises, Promises" is credited
to the Teen Queens. I have never seen this included
in discographies. Besides, it sounds like a solo singer
here. Any info?
The other track is "Don't Say Nothin'" - credited to
Sherrill Rocker and Group. It sounds like it was recorded
down the hall, under a blanket. I'm not sure if it
originally sounded this way, or if it happened in the
transfer to CD. Even so, it's an infectious little ditty.
The only thing these two have in common, besides being
very catchy tunes, is that they both fall into that
"is it a guy or a girl singer?" category. Of course the
label states that they are women... if so, they are tenors.
Thanks for your help
Brian Ferrari
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:16:34 +0100
From: Keith Beach
Subject: I Wonder
Sitting at my office desk...incoming email
re Crystals "I wonder"...screw doing any work,
I have to answer this email query
Chorus is, to the best of my memory, humming it in my head,
AND I WONDER
WHO HE'LL BE
WONDER IF HE'LL BE GOOD TO ME
WONDER...GOSH OH GEE
WONDER IF HE'LL LOVE ME
FOR EVER
This may be a pile of cack, but it's what I singalong to
keith beach
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:03:37 -0400
From: Louise Posnick
Subject: Re: American Dreams...
Dave:
> My problem with these kinds of shows are they cheapen
> everything. They make it all sanitized and lame. I
> have no problem with enjoying the music and memories
> of the past.
Your response is appreciated...I still think that you
have mixed emotions about the OLD DAYS..like you want
to reap the benefits of the music, but don't don't wish
to be cluttered but the events ...lots of the music,
especially Marvin Gaye (What's Goin' On), Curtis Mayfield,
and so many others, created their music based on the
important events...the events were the catalysts for
great writing and protest...you say the music was the
most important thing..it was the messenger for the most
important thing..human and Civil Rights, womens' rights,
childrens' rights, etc,......but again, the important
messages will get out to those who chose to check it out..
(I mentioned Marvin at the end of the message for no other
reason than I mentioned it at the end..when I re-read what
you had written...I am at work and get distracted)...anyway
...I think this is a good dialogue...you know, Father Knows
Best was a real show on during the 50s and early 60s and it
was sanitized and representative of what some people thought
to be the life of the times...so this new show is not all
that CHEAP in its representation of some of the population
at the time...Leave It to Beaver, My Three Sons, and I could
go on..did exist and were not far from the American Dream
Scenario...the difference is that because this is a lookback,
more messages can be given to our youth - messages that had
not yet been resolved or even discussed during the early 60s..
abortion, interracial relationships, working poor, class
distinctions (in America - pray tell)...so this show, if it
lasts, may serve up more than some music - but the music
makes it palatable for some of us, because not all the
memories of those times was wonderful. Just more food for
thought. The ED SULLIVAN SHOW, was lame too, but everyone
from Bill Haley and the Comets, to Aretha was on that show....
we were LAME by today's standards...can you get that, and it
was real.....so the representation should present as lame...
to be HIP was to be a rebel and TV didn't like to put that on
in those days....so sit back for a moment and do a time warp
in your mind and maybe you will realize that to represent the
60s has to include a certain amount of anal retentive behaviors,
'cause that is who white America was....and for the most part..
still is; it just wears Gucci....Thanks for this banter..it is
healthy to remember.
Louise
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:28:49 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
Robert wrote:
> Two questions: On CD "Then He Kissed Me" sounds
> slower, lower pitched, and with far less treble
> than on my 38 year old 45....
"Then He Kissed Me" is in the key of E major. I've
never noticed any variation in pitch between CD and the
vinyl issues (just checked to be sure). However, the CD
is theoretically from the master tape, and, like so many
of our favourties from the time, lacks the punch of the 45.
It's long been a fad with contemporary recording technique
to recreate the '60s vinyl' effect. But there's nothing like
the real thing, and I'm continually entertained by the use
of actual 60s rhythm samples, complete with over-modulation,
in modern dance records.
> La La Brooks has the greatest voice of all time.
"I Wonder" is an all-time fave, checkout the power of
La La in the backing vocals and lead on the end choruses.
I used to sing along with something quite incomprehensible,
but phonetically pleasing, long after I worked out that
the 3rd line was "Gosh Oh Gee"...
It's not something we Brits say very often:-)
Phil
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:08:29 -0400
From: Tim Looney
Subject: Re: Commercial freakout
on another list that I am on, the subject of music
we love appearing in commercials came up (a number
of times now) and the most relevant comment made was
"why is it that we are more likely to hear our favorite
songs in a Gap ad rather than on the radio?" As mentioned,
I think it is a good thing that Nick Drake was introduced
to a whole new generation thanks to VW. On the otherhand,
I don't think I could ever take James Brown's 'I Feel Good'
seriously again. If I hear it I am getting in line to buy
something.
I find it more disappointing when these artists write and
perform songs for the commercials (Ray Charles comes to mind)
than when one of their great songs is co-opted by Madison Ave.
But when it comes down to it the commercials will sometimes
bring these artists a paycheck.
tim
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:44 -0400
From: Louise Posnick
Subject: RE: Commercial freakout
Phil Milstein re. songs used in commercials:
> ...I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these
> things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who
> agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same
> time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a
> lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it
> represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit
> still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and
> indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention.
> However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those
> same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still
> for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two
> situations seem to be moving in opposite directions.
Phil,
I like what you are saying.....interesting.
Louise
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:56:20 +0200
From: Hans Ket
Subject: Brand New Cadillac
Dan Hughes wrote:
> I've never heard of Brand New Cadillac! It did not make
> the charts in the USA. Who did it originally?
According to my information Vince Taylor and the Playboys
was the original (1958?) They even had a hit with it in
France.
In the sixties the song was quite popular among
Scandinavian and Dutch groups.
Some additions to the list:
De Maskers (1965) Dutch
The Renegades (1965) Scandinavia
The Shamrocks (65/66) Scandinavia
Hans Ket
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:14:32 +0100
From: Eric Charge
Subject: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
The film is on at the London Film Festival. They say:
"I can confirm that this will be screened as part of the London
Film Festival on the following dates:
Fri 15 Nov 15.30 Odeon West End
Sat 16 Nov 18.30 Odeon West End
Please contact our box office for more details on 0207 928 3232"
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:03:20 -0400
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: 60s garage songs
Don Underwood wrote:
> ....some of the Rock "n" Soul and Rock "n" Roll songs that
> I heard a lot during this time....(including)....
> Time Won't Let Me (so popular we hired the Outsiders for our
> 1969 prom)
That, I would have liked to have seen, but of COURSE, I'm way
too young - I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Lenny
Kaye's 1972 collection "Nuggets". That was Garage 101 in a
nutshell--or maybe, more accurately, a vinyl sphere. It's
been reissued by Rhino as one of four CDs in the garage
package likewise referred to as "Nuggets". A year or two ago
they also reissued "British Nuggets". "Nuggets" of course
led to "Pebbles", "Boulders", "Back From The Grave",
Arf-Arf Records, the 80s Nouveau-Garage sound of Chesterfield
Kings, The Cynics, The Lyres, and the like.....and on it goethe.
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:55:48 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: American Dreams...
I apologize in advance for veering the discussion further
off-course, but I would like to insert my observation here
that even under the best of circumstances, historical dramas
(in any medium) tell us more about the era in which they're
presented than about the one they're assuming to represent.
No matter how well-intentioned the production may be, its
creators still need to try to garner an audience, which
invariably causes them to conform the historical "facts" to
present-day dramatical fashions. And TV, with its need to
reduce issues to fit neat time constraints, as well as to
neatly resolve each episode, is usually the worst offender.
--Phil Milstein
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:46:04 -0000
From: Patrick Rands
Subject: Re: Commercial freakout
Phil Milstein wrote:
> As long as we're discussing the use of cool music on TV, I
> thought it not inappropriate to bring up the topic of cool
> music used in TV ads.
Check out this article for some interesting points to ponder.
http://robwalker.net/html_docs/clash.html
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:18:58 EDT
From: Denise
Subject: Re: The Monkees
Guy writes:
> Anyone know of a Monkees website that features hard
> facts about their recordings, session musicians,
> songwriters etc
Try this site:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3152/
And if that doesn't meet your needs check all over
http://www.monkees.net which is the most comprehensive
Monkees website available with links to just about
anything dealing with the Monkees.
Denise (Rob's wife)
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:17:46 -0400
From: james botticelli
Subject: Re: Commercial freakout
Phil Milstein re. songs used in commercials:
> ...I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these
> things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who
> agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same
> time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a
> lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it
> represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit
> still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and
> indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention.
> However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those
> same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still
> for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two
> situations seem to be moving in opposite directions.
A few electronica artists I know or know of are continuously
trying to get their music INTO commercials as the radio refuses
to take it commercially seriously enough. Nicola Conte, who
blends real life players with pieces of electronica to form a
modern Italia-Bossa Nova sensibility, scored last year with
"Bossa Per Due" which made it into an Acura commercial. It is
strong enough to stand alone, as is much electronica, a sadly
maligned and disrespected (by older folks) new music. More
recently Ursula 1000 from NYC was included in a commercial I
have yet to hear with (I think) his "Beatbox Cha Cha". For a
primer on some hip electronica mixing, listen to Ursula 1000's
mega-mix called "All Systems Are Go-Go", which features primarily
the new German, Danish, Japanese, and Italian artists mixed for
your listening and dancing pleasure.(http://www.ursula1000.com)
Click Discography, then the third album cover from the left......
JB/no commercial connection, but a friend and fan of "Ursula"
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:50:03 -0000
From: Neil Hever
Subject: Commercial freakout continued
Folks, How about "London Calling" by the Clash used
to sell Jaguars? At least "Lust for life" makes
sense to sell travel. "London calling" is about
the apocolypse!!! Here are some lyrics: "the ice
cap is melting, the sun is zooming in, a nuclear
era but I have no fear 'cuz London is drowning and
I...live by the river!" I think all of these more
extreme choices fall under the mnemonic category -
a device with words or sound that get your attention.
There is another terrible use of a song for jeans.
Perhaps you have heard the song "Fortunate Son" by
CCR used out of context to sell pants. They use the
line "some folks were born to raise the flag, ooh the
red, white and blue!" and conveniently leave out "and
when they play hail to the chief, ooh they point the
cannon at you!"
I wonder, does anybody else think about the irony of
this stuff. A song about global warming used to sell
cars? A song that questions patriotism used to sell
flag-waving jeans? What an offense!
Neil Hever
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:52:07 +0000
From: richard hattersley
Subject: Re: The Monkees
Guy,
This is a pretty good Monkees site
http://members.tripod.com/~colli/monkees.html
It has session dates for the songs on each album and
unreleased track details.
With regard to the session guys who play on their tracks,
the booklets in thr Rhino CDs are very informative giving
details of who plays what when known.
Here is another good page that I have just found:
http://www.esoteric-solutions.co.uk/monkees/recordinginformationselect.htm
This is a page from: http://www.themonkees.co.uk/
hope they help
all the best
richard
http://www.mp3.com/richard_snow
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:53:12 -0400
From: Jeffrey Mlinscek
Subject: Re: The Monkees
Check this [Monkees] site out.
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3152/
Jeff
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:08:20 -0000
From: Tim
Subject: Looking for help (Christmas Songs)
For the past two years I've been making christmas CDs
for my friends during the holidays... this year I'm
running out of material, so I'm soliciting any help.
This is one of the few groups where I feel like I can
get some good, less-conventional suggestions. I'm looking
for unheralded gems here, but I'll take what I can.
Any songs spring to mind?
Thanks in advance,
Tim
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:17:06 -0000
From: Billy Spradlin
Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
Phil:
> "Then He Kissed Me" is in the key of E major. I've
> never noticed any variation in pitch between CD and the
> vinyl issues (just checked to be sure).
Phil are you comparing the UK (London) or USA (Philles) 45
to the CD?
(BTW I wish I could find a CD changer that had a pitch-
control knob)
Just curious!
Billy
-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
End
